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    Originally posted by sg-1fanintn View Post
    Just checking (after a loooonnnngggggg absence) in with a little S/J love...

    As always, I'm looking forward to Ship Day! I've already arranged to take the day off...so I can ship with you all without interruption!

    Honestly, Ship Day should be an international holiday. It would bring the whole world together in love.

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      Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
      Honestly, Ship Day should be an international holiday. It would bring the whole world together in love.
      I agree! Do we have a motion?

      Comment


        Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
        Honestly, Ship Day should be an international holiday. It would bring the whole world together in love.
        Originally posted by sg-1fanintn View Post
        I agree! Do we have a motion?
        I move that we make the 28th of July, Universal Sam and Jack Ship Day.

        [Universal, why confine all the Sam/Jack love to just one nation or one planet or one galaxy.]
        No Sam w/o a Jack and no Jack w/o a Sam.
        It's like and immutable law of the multiverse.

        Comment


          Originally posted by iiradned View Post
          I move that we make the 28th of July, Universal Sam and Jack Ship Day.

          [Universal, why confine all the Sam/Jack love to just one nation or one planet or one galaxy.]
          I'm all in favor! How exactly do we take this to a universal vote?

          Comment


            Only a couple more days to nominate your favorite stories for the Ship Day Favorite Fic Awards.

            Click here for a reminder of all the categories and rules.

            If your favorite fic isn't there when we start voting, you only have yourself to blame.

            Comment


              Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
              I do think they're married, which is more my personal preference than a demonstrable fact, but everything else you said was exactly spont on IMO.
              (And NO, the universe is not ending. )
              IMO: Married...when Jack transferred to Washington and Sam to Area 51. There is no reasonable explaination for Jack to go to a place to work with people he detests (politicians), doing work he hates (paperwork), unless the rewards outweigh the torture (his ability to finally be with Sam and explore the heights, depths, and lenghts of their affection and love). Of course, I'm an irrepressible romantic.

              Universe is not ending...I'd never even been on GW until March or April THIS YEAR. I'd never even seen all the eps of SG1 until THIS YEAR (via Netflix). It sparked the passion for SG1 that I'm currently wallowing in. I'm going to hang around as long as there are other shippers to share with...

              Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
              Only a couple more days to nominate your favorite stories for the Ship Day Favorite Fic Awards.
              EVERYBODY:
              Please, PLEASE nominate for the fic rec thing hlndncr so kindly organized...even if you think you haven't read enough to nominate (I certainly haven't...but I nominated from the list I HAVE read). It doesn't mean you're committed to vote (if you don't want too) if you nominate. And having the master list of noms would be awesome for suggested reading for peeps like me who haven't read a fraction of what's out there.
              sigpic
              sig by Ikorni

              "When Colonel Maybourne and yourself were stranded off world, Major Carter felt a similar sense of frustration. She despaired at the thought of never seeing you again." ~Teal'c
              "I didn't leave,because I'd have rather died myself,than lose Carter." ~Jack O'Neill


              SaraBahama FanFic; AO3

              Comment


                Just to play devil's advocate regarding Sam in SGA...

                re Sam showing weakness by sharing her doubts with Sheppard: am I the only one who seems to remember the numerous times that Hammond shared his doubts with Jack? Or when Jack shared his uncertainty/doubts with Sam or Daniel or Teal'c?

                IMO, it's a sign of strength in a leader to confide in their subordinates when appropriate, such as Sam with Sheppard in the relative private of the Atlantis balcony in the Seer or in her office. Then at the moment of crisis she stands firm to her decisions and doesn't back down despite Woolsey's challenge. Then, to top it off, after the danger passes she reveals the truth to Woolsey, that no she wasn't 100% sure it'd work, but it was the best option she had and she went for it all the way.

                IMO, I have far more trust in a leader who, again when appropriate, will admit that they weren't 100% sure than one who's convinced they're absolutely right and never admit to doubts in their decision-making.

                re Sam dressing down Ellis after McKay left: IMO that was absolutely the right thing to do. McKay's a subordinate, and between officers, especially equal ranks in this case, it's a matter of respect to not dress down/discipline the other in the presence of subordinates, and civilians as well usually.

                re Sam in Trio: yes, the episode is played for laughs as opposed to realism (something that I think SGA and Stargate's later years did far too often). And in an effort to keep everyone involved but not make one person the hero, they didn't let Sam to get them out single-handedly, which she most likely could have. But helpless? Bit of a stretch IMHO.

                I very much agree that Sam's stint on SGA could have been much stronger and her character utilized better. It was IMHO, the overemphasis of the writers on Mckay the ultimate genius and Sheppard the ultimate hero that hamstrung not just Sam, but all the other characters and the show in general.

                But personally, I found more good than bad from Sam's stay on Atlantis. It was miles better than the limbo she was in during S9/10, though admittedly not up to the prime years of SG-1.

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                  Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post
                  Just to play devil's advocate regarding Sam in SGA...

                  re Sam showing weakness by sharing her doubts with Sheppard: am I the only one who seems to remember the numerous times that Hammond shared his doubts with Jack? Or when Jack shared his uncertainty/doubts with Sam or Daniel or Teal'c?

                  IMO, it's a sign of strength in a leader to confide in their subordinates when appropriate, such as Sam with Sheppard in the relative private of the Atlantis balcony in the Seer or in her office. Then at the moment of crisis she stands firm to her decisions and doesn't back down despite Woolsey's challenge. Then, to top it off, after the danger passes she reveals the truth to Woolsey, that no she wasn't 100% sure it'd work, but it was the best option she had and she went for it all the way.

                  IMO, I have far more trust in a leader who, again when appropriate, will admit that they weren't 100% sure than one who's convinced they're absolutely right and never admit to doubts in their decision-making.
                  Personally, I feel like the relationship between all of SG1 was much closer; so I could see Sam saying some of those things to Daniel or Teal'c. I don't remember Hammond sounding so desperate and dependent when discussing problems and setbacks with Jack. And that's my criticism. Sam sounds subserviant to Sheppard. It comes around to what you were saying here:

                  I very much agree that Sam's stint on SGA could have been much stronger and her character utilized better. It was IMHO, the overemphasis of the writers on Mckay the ultimate genius and Sheppard the ultimate hero that hamstrung not just Sam, but all the other characters and the show in general.
                  I agree with this, and I certainly think there were many times when Elizabeth was portrayed as weak and subservient to our male hero too.

                  re Sam dressing down Ellis after McKay left: IMO that was absolutely the right thing to do. McKay's a subordinate, and between officers, especially equal ranks in this case, it's a matter of respect to not dress down/discipline the other in the presence of subordinates, and civilians as well usually.
                  McKay was Sam's subordinate and she should have showed her support for him while he was there so that he knew he had her backing, and she should have followed through when Ellis continued his bad behavior. Ellis was the one being disrespectful in front of civilians and he deserved to be called out for it in public. Doing so in private didn't bolster Sam's connection to her staff and it was ineffective in quieting Ellis's ill-timed and inappropriate remarks.

                  re Sam in Trio: yes, the episode is played for laughs as opposed to realism (something that I think SGA and Stargate's later years did far too often). And in an effort to keep everyone involved but not make one person the hero, they didn't let Sam to get them out single-handedly, which she most likely could have. But helpless? Bit of a stretch IMHO.
                  As you point out, she could have freed herself. But in the end she really did nothing but throw a grappling hook and fall. Again I think they wanted to make McKay the hero, but they could have still let Sam be the leader.

                  But personally, I found more good than bad from Sam's stay on Atlantis. It was miles better than the limbo she was in during S9/10, though admittedly not up to the prime years of SG-1.
                  I agree with you here. Sam was much better on SGA than S9/10. I just lament all the lost potential for Sam's character as an individual and for the Ship.

                  Comment



                    by Josiane


                    (Summary from StargateWiki)

                    SG-1 and General O'Neill gather on a Tok'ra planet to witness the extraction of the last known Ba'al symbiote from its host. In fact, it is not the last Ba'al, but only the last clone. Before the extraction can take place, the real Ba'al travels back in time and changes the future by shipwrecking the Achilles, the ship that transported the Egyptian Stargate to the United States in 1939. In the altered present, humans and Tok'ra disappear from the room, and the clone Ba'al gets free and kills O'Neill. SG-1, minus Teal'c and Vala, make their way to the gate and dial Earth.

                    Because of the altered timeline, instead of landing in the SGC, Mitchell, Daniel, and Carter arrive on board the shipwrecked Achilles, in frozen waters near the Arctic Circle. They manage to escape and are rescued by a nuclear submarine and Special Ops Colonel Jack O'Neill, who knows nothing about the Stargate Program and only knows Carter because, to him, she is a dead astronaut. Due to frostbite suffered on the sunken ship, Daniel has his left leg amputated below the knee.

                    The three are interrogated and eventually convince General Landry they are telling the truth about what has happened to their timeline. Landry refuses to let them try to fix it, however, believing it would be arrogant to change so many lives. He orders that they each be settled in different parts of the country and not allowed to contact each other. Meanwhile the Navy works without their help to activate the Stargete in Antarctica in case their predictions of an invasion by Ba'al come to pass.

                    A year later, the invasion by Ba'al's huge armada of Goa'uld ships begins. Ba'al has consolodated his power and is in charge of all the System Lords. Qetesh, hosted by Vala, is his consort, and Teal'c his First Prime. Ba'al's plan is for a benevolent takeover of Earth, although Qetesh and the others would prefer to devastate the planet.

                    The US President asks SG-1 for help in fighting back. They embark on F-15s to Antarctica with a desperate plan to use the Stargate to gate to Taonas and get a ZPM so they can return and power the Ancient defense chair.

                    Meanwhile, Qetesh grows so distrustful of Ba'al and his unexplained knowledge of Earth that she stabs him and tortures him to death, but not before learning of his time machine and where it is. She orders the Antarctic Stargate and defense chair to be destroyed and an all-out attack on Earth's cities to commence. She speeds her mothership to Praxyon so that she can take control of the time machine. Teal'c meanwhile wants to get there as well, to carry out Ba'al's last order, to avenge his death and free his Jaffa.

                    Both SG-1 and Teal'c learn separately that the Russians have recovered the sunken Stargate, and they encounter each other in Russia. They agree to ally and travel to Praxyon together, reaching it ahead of Qetesh. Carter studies the time machine and looks for an opportunity to go back and fix what Ba'al has done. Qetesh's forces arrive by ring from her mothership and attack in waves. Carter dials the gate to send travelers to Earth in 1929, ten years before the timeline has to be fixed. She, Daniel and Teal'c all perish in the battle with Qetesh's Jaffa, but Mitchell makes it through the gate before it shuts down. Teal'c kills Qetesh and destroys the time machine as his final act.

                    Mitchell bides his time on Earth until the cross-Atlantic mission in 1939, when he stows away on the Achilles. He lies in wait for Ba'al and his Jaffa to come through the gate, and kills them all, thus restoring the future.

                    In the present, the timeline returns to its original state. The clone Ba'al is freed of his symbiote, and Vala stays to support him. After returning to Earth, O'Neill takes the rest of the team to lunch.

                    Sam & Jack

                    Together again at last, and yet still never enough.

                    I'll be back later to add my thoughts, but don't let that stop you from discussing.
                    Last edited by hlndncr; July 20, 2011, 11:22 AM.

                    Comment


                      Continuum:

                      I absolutely loved Continuum, story wise I would have liked for it to given us more of what was happening in our timeline but besides that it was great.
                      I'm a sucker for characters that have been long gone making appearances so I particularly liked when we got to see the Goa'uld system lords

                      Continuum had great Sam/Jack moments, most of them brief but great, and the only thing that was missing (IMHO) was yet again confirmation *sigh*
                      sigpic
                      Sig by Everlovin My YT|My other vid site|My LJ|My Photobucket|My ImageShack|"Stargate is life, Sam and Jack are happiness, Shippers are almighty" by hlndncr

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                        I often start watching Continuum for the shippy scenes and end up watching it all I do love it when that happens

                        My fave bits?
                        "Have you ever tried to find a bathroom in a pyramid?"
                        And of course "What moon base?"

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Kate1013 View Post
                          I often start watching Continuum for the shippy scenes and end up watching it all I do love it when that happens

                          My fave bits?
                          "Have you ever tried to find a bathroom in a pyramid?"
                          And of course "What moon base?"

                          Ditto those. And the one where Jack suggests lunch, and Sam gives him "that look", and he says it's on him, so everyone agrees to lunch.

                          And although it's only there for a second, as they're all walking out and the bit abut the moonbase, Cam is seen to be looking at the two of them in what I think of as a very knowing way. It's cute.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                            Personally, I feel like the relationship between all of SG1 was much closer; so I could see Sam saying some of those things to Daniel or Teal'c. I don't remember Hammond sounding so desperate and dependent when discussing problems and setbacks with Jack. And that's my criticism. Sam sounds subserviant to Sheppard. It comes around to what you were saying here:
                            I'm just not at all seeing how Sam comes across as desperate or dependent when talking to Sheppard. Granted it's been a while since I've watch those episodes, but the only times I remember her asking for his advice was in the Seer re handling the Wraith, and I think about general strategy in BAMSR and Kindred, and in those cases she came across to me as collected and just seeking more info/different opinions, I didn't see any desperation.

                            And I'm just not seeing Sam as subservient to Sheppard, she stopped him dead in his tracks from going on a suicide mission after Weir, she told him to stand down in the Seer at not blow up the Wraith ships, and kept him from charging after Teyla until they could assess the situation in Last Man. The writers overuse of Sheppard does not equal Sam being subservient to him (rather like the writer's focus on Jack in SG-1 never meant Hammond was subservient to him), a iittle ineffective maybe, but weak/subservient is a bit of a stretch IMHO.

                            McKay was Sam's subordinate and she should have showed her support for him while he was there so that he knew he had her backing, and she should have followed through when Ellis continued his bad behavior. Ellis was the one being disrespectful in front of civilians and he deserved to be called out for it in public. Doing so in private didn't bolster Sam's connection to her staff and it was ineffective in quieting Ellis's ill-timed and inappropriate remarks.
                            And Mckay was being disrespectful to Ellis (and the others) by wasting their time and focusing more on showing how smart he is than giving them actionable information. Something he should have learned after 4 years on the front lines. Ellis was just calling him on his bluff and McKay's reaction to said criticism was pathetically childish. Neither his bluffing nor his petulance was worthy of Sam's support and he was, IMHO, rightly curtly dismissed (by both Sam and Sheppard) with a 'so get out of here and get to work'.

                            The only interaction between Ellis and McKay that I remember after that was when he asked him, a week after he said his program would be ready, if it was ready to be implemented. And while curt and a bit sarcastic, his tone towards McKay had none of the disdain he was expressing earlier. He seemed to learn his lession IMO, while of course at the same time McKay is lying about how ready it is and has to be reminded again to get to work despite the time crunch they're facing.

                            (Full disclosure, I have a very low McKay tolerance so he gets very little sympathy from me.)

                            As you point out, she could have freed herself. But in the end she really did nothing but throw a grappling hook and fall. Again I think they wanted to make McKay the hero, but they could have still let Sam be the leader.
                            She succeeded (twice) at throwing the hook, what failed was the loose soil which was out of her control. She also helped assemble the bar bet scheme and almost reached the top, she kept McKay focused even after she broke her leg, as well as encouraged him while he kept Keller from falling, and was self-sacrificing by trying to get McKay to save himself instead of risking himself trying to get her out. No, Sam didn't single-handedly get them out, but her efforts weren't meaningless simply because they didn't work IMHO.

                            I agree with you here. Sam was much better on SGA than S9/10. I just lament all the lost potential for Sam's character as an individual and for the Ship.
                            I agree. All I'm trying to say is that not living up to potential doesn't make something bad, just not as good as it could have been.
                            Last edited by EvenstarSRV; July 7, 2011, 04:48 PM.

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                              Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post
                              I agree. All I'm trying to say is that not living up to potential doesn't make something bad, just not as good as it could have been.
                              I don't think I said it was bad. I thought there were times when Sam was very good. There were moments that I thought were bad and that included what I see as her inappropriate dependence on and weakness in front of Sheppard in The Seer, her failure to publicly support McKay in Be All My Sins (and he was being wordy, not offering useless or inappropriate info--something Sam should have an understanding of having done so herself on numerous occasions), and her complete lack of leadership in Trio. Mostly, I think she was under utilized and there were a lot of missed opportunities for character development and growth.

                              And I don't see how you can have it both ways. Either Sheppard was an ubber hero who overshadowed (and frankly ran rough shod over) the other characters, even his commanders, or Sam was the strong and in charge leader who had him undercontrol. To me it was far too often the former and only very rarely the latter.

                              That's just how I see it.
                              Last edited by hlndncr; July 7, 2011, 06:04 PM.

                              Comment


                                I haven't seen Continuum yet *blushes*...remember...I just got to watch all of SG1 THIS YEAR! I've fallen woefully behind on SGA season 4, and wanted to wait to watch Continuum in the place it chronologically falls (@ Season 5 opener). I may have to cave...

                                I also admit that trips to the angst cavern make me weep uncontrollably, and I think with the character deaths (even though it ends up ok) that Continuum floats inside the cavern. Hence weeping. I hate to cry...
                                sigpic
                                sig by Ikorni

                                "When Colonel Maybourne and yourself were stranded off world, Major Carter felt a similar sense of frustration. She despaired at the thought of never seeing you again." ~Teal'c
                                "I didn't leave,because I'd have rather died myself,than lose Carter." ~Jack O'Neill


                                SaraBahama FanFic; AO3

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