Originally posted by sg-1fanintn
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Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread
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Originally posted by hlndncr View PostHonestly, Ship Day should be an international holiday. It would bring the whole world together in love.Originally posted by sg-1fanintn View PostI agree! Do we have a motion?
[Universal, why confine all the Sam/Jack love to just one nation or one planet or one galaxy.]No Sam w/o a Jack and no Jack w/o a Sam.
It's like and immutable law of the multiverse.
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Originally posted by iiradned View PostI move that we make the 28th of July, Universal Sam and Jack Ship Day.
[Universal, why confine all the Sam/Jack love to just one nation or one planet or one galaxy.]sigpic
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Only a couple more days to nominate your favorite stories for the Ship Day Favorite Fic Awards.
Click here for a reminder of all the categories and rules.
If your favorite fic isn't there when we start voting, you only have yourself to blame.sigpic
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Originally posted by hlndncr View PostI do think they're married, which is more my personal preference than a demonstrable fact, but everything else you said was exactly spont on IMO.
(And NO, the universe is not ending. )
Universe is not ending...I'd never even been on GW until March or April THIS YEAR. I'd never even seen all the eps of SG1 until THIS YEAR (via Netflix). It sparked the passion for SG1 that I'm currently wallowing in. I'm going to hang around as long as there are other shippers to share with...
Originally posted by hlndncr View PostOnly a couple more days to nominate your favorite stories for the Ship Day Favorite Fic Awards.
Please, PLEASE nominate for the fic rec thing hlndncr so kindly organized...even if you think you haven't read enough to nominate (I certainly haven't...but I nominated from the list I HAVE read). It doesn't mean you're committed to vote (if you don't want too) if you nominate. And having the master list of noms would be awesome for suggested reading for peeps like me who haven't read a fraction of what's out there.sigpic
sig by Ikorni
"When Colonel Maybourne and yourself were stranded off world, Major Carter felt a similar sense of frustration. She despaired at the thought of never seeing you again." ~Teal'c
"I didn't leave,because I'd have rather died myself,than lose Carter." ~Jack O'Neill
SaraBahama FanFic; AO3
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Just to play devil's advocate regarding Sam in SGA...
re Sam showing weakness by sharing her doubts with Sheppard: am I the only one who seems to remember the numerous times that Hammond shared his doubts with Jack? Or when Jack shared his uncertainty/doubts with Sam or Daniel or Teal'c?
IMO, it's a sign of strength in a leader to confide in their subordinates when appropriate, such as Sam with Sheppard in the relative private of the Atlantis balcony in the Seer or in her office. Then at the moment of crisis she stands firm to her decisions and doesn't back down despite Woolsey's challenge. Then, to top it off, after the danger passes she reveals the truth to Woolsey, that no she wasn't 100% sure it'd work, but it was the best option she had and she went for it all the way.
IMO, I have far more trust in a leader who, again when appropriate, will admit that they weren't 100% sure than one who's convinced they're absolutely right and never admit to doubts in their decision-making.
re Sam dressing down Ellis after McKay left: IMO that was absolutely the right thing to do. McKay's a subordinate, and between officers, especially equal ranks in this case, it's a matter of respect to not dress down/discipline the other in the presence of subordinates, and civilians as well usually.
re Sam in Trio: yes, the episode is played for laughs as opposed to realism (something that I think SGA and Stargate's later years did far too often). And in an effort to keep everyone involved but not make one person the hero, they didn't let Sam to get them out single-handedly, which she most likely could have. But helpless? Bit of a stretch IMHO.
I very much agree that Sam's stint on SGA could have been much stronger and her character utilized better. It was IMHO, the overemphasis of the writers on Mckay the ultimate genius and Sheppard the ultimate hero that hamstrung not just Sam, but all the other characters and the show in general.
But personally, I found more good than bad from Sam's stay on Atlantis. It was miles better than the limbo she was in during S9/10, though admittedly not up to the prime years of SG-1.
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Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View PostJust to play devil's advocate regarding Sam in SGA...
re Sam showing weakness by sharing her doubts with Sheppard: am I the only one who seems to remember the numerous times that Hammond shared his doubts with Jack? Or when Jack shared his uncertainty/doubts with Sam or Daniel or Teal'c?
IMO, it's a sign of strength in a leader to confide in their subordinates when appropriate, such as Sam with Sheppard in the relative private of the Atlantis balcony in the Seer or in her office. Then at the moment of crisis she stands firm to her decisions and doesn't back down despite Woolsey's challenge. Then, to top it off, after the danger passes she reveals the truth to Woolsey, that no she wasn't 100% sure it'd work, but it was the best option she had and she went for it all the way.
IMO, I have far more trust in a leader who, again when appropriate, will admit that they weren't 100% sure than one who's convinced they're absolutely right and never admit to doubts in their decision-making.
I very much agree that Sam's stint on SGA could have been much stronger and her character utilized better. It was IMHO, the overemphasis of the writers on Mckay the ultimate genius and Sheppard the ultimate hero that hamstrung not just Sam, but all the other characters and the show in general.
re Sam dressing down Ellis after McKay left: IMO that was absolutely the right thing to do. McKay's a subordinate, and between officers, especially equal ranks in this case, it's a matter of respect to not dress down/discipline the other in the presence of subordinates, and civilians as well usually.
re Sam in Trio: yes, the episode is played for laughs as opposed to realism (something that I think SGA and Stargate's later years did far too often). And in an effort to keep everyone involved but not make one person the hero, they didn't let Sam to get them out single-handedly, which she most likely could have. But helpless? Bit of a stretch IMHO.
But personally, I found more good than bad from Sam's stay on Atlantis. It was miles better than the limbo she was in during S9/10, though admittedly not up to the prime years of SG-1.sigpic
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by Josiane
(Summary from StargateWiki)
SG-1 and General O'Neill gather on a Tok'ra planet to witness the extraction of the last known Ba'al symbiote from its host. In fact, it is not the last Ba'al, but only the last clone. Before the extraction can take place, the real Ba'al travels back in time and changes the future by shipwrecking the Achilles, the ship that transported the Egyptian Stargate to the United States in 1939. In the altered present, humans and Tok'ra disappear from the room, and the clone Ba'al gets free and kills O'Neill. SG-1, minus Teal'c and Vala, make their way to the gate and dial Earth.
Because of the altered timeline, instead of landing in the SGC, Mitchell, Daniel, and Carter arrive on board the shipwrecked Achilles, in frozen waters near the Arctic Circle. They manage to escape and are rescued by a nuclear submarine and Special Ops Colonel Jack O'Neill, who knows nothing about the Stargate Program and only knows Carter because, to him, she is a dead astronaut. Due to frostbite suffered on the sunken ship, Daniel has his left leg amputated below the knee.
The three are interrogated and eventually convince General Landry they are telling the truth about what has happened to their timeline. Landry refuses to let them try to fix it, however, believing it would be arrogant to change so many lives. He orders that they each be settled in different parts of the country and not allowed to contact each other. Meanwhile the Navy works without their help to activate the Stargete in Antarctica in case their predictions of an invasion by Ba'al come to pass.
A year later, the invasion by Ba'al's huge armada of Goa'uld ships begins. Ba'al has consolodated his power and is in charge of all the System Lords. Qetesh, hosted by Vala, is his consort, and Teal'c his First Prime. Ba'al's plan is for a benevolent takeover of Earth, although Qetesh and the others would prefer to devastate the planet.
The US President asks SG-1 for help in fighting back. They embark on F-15s to Antarctica with a desperate plan to use the Stargate to gate to Taonas and get a ZPM so they can return and power the Ancient defense chair.
Meanwhile, Qetesh grows so distrustful of Ba'al and his unexplained knowledge of Earth that she stabs him and tortures him to death, but not before learning of his time machine and where it is. She orders the Antarctic Stargate and defense chair to be destroyed and an all-out attack on Earth's cities to commence. She speeds her mothership to Praxyon so that she can take control of the time machine. Teal'c meanwhile wants to get there as well, to carry out Ba'al's last order, to avenge his death and free his Jaffa.
Both SG-1 and Teal'c learn separately that the Russians have recovered the sunken Stargate, and they encounter each other in Russia. They agree to ally and travel to Praxyon together, reaching it ahead of Qetesh. Carter studies the time machine and looks for an opportunity to go back and fix what Ba'al has done. Qetesh's forces arrive by ring from her mothership and attack in waves. Carter dials the gate to send travelers to Earth in 1929, ten years before the timeline has to be fixed. She, Daniel and Teal'c all perish in the battle with Qetesh's Jaffa, but Mitchell makes it through the gate before it shuts down. Teal'c kills Qetesh and destroys the time machine as his final act.
Mitchell bides his time on Earth until the cross-Atlantic mission in 1939, when he stows away on the Achilles. He lies in wait for Ba'al and his Jaffa to come through the gate, and kills them all, thus restoring the future.
In the present, the timeline returns to its original state. The clone Ba'al is freed of his symbiote, and Vala stays to support him. After returning to Earth, O'Neill takes the rest of the team to lunch.
Sam & Jack
Together again at last, and yet still never enough.
I'll be back later to add my thoughts, but don't let that stop you from discussing.Last edited by hlndncr; 20 July 2011, 11:22 AM.sigpic
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Continuum:
I absolutely loved Continuum, story wise I would have liked for it to given us more of what was happening in our timeline but besides that it was great.
I'm a sucker for characters that have been long gone making appearances so I particularly liked when we got to see the Goa'uld system lords
Continuum had great Sam/Jack moments, most of them brief but great, and the only thing that was missing (IMHO) was yet again confirmation *sigh*sigpicSig by Everlovin My YT|My other vid site|My LJ|My Photobucket|My ImageShack|"Stargate is life, Sam and Jack are happiness, Shippers are almighty" by hlndncr
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Originally posted by Kate1013 View PostI often start watching Continuum for the shippy scenes and end up watching it all I do love it when that happens
My fave bits?
"Have you ever tried to find a bathroom in a pyramid?"
And of course "What moon base?"
And although it's only there for a second, as they're all walking out and the bit abut the moonbase, Cam is seen to be looking at the two of them in what I think of as a very knowing way. It's cute.
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Originally posted by hlndncr View PostPersonally, I feel like the relationship between all of SG1 was much closer; so I could see Sam saying some of those things to Daniel or Teal'c. I don't remember Hammond sounding so desperate and dependent when discussing problems and setbacks with Jack. And that's my criticism. Sam sounds subserviant to Sheppard. It comes around to what you were saying here:
And I'm just not seeing Sam as subservient to Sheppard, she stopped him dead in his tracks from going on a suicide mission after Weir, she told him to stand down in the Seer at not blow up the Wraith ships, and kept him from charging after Teyla until they could assess the situation in Last Man. The writers overuse of Sheppard does not equal Sam being subservient to him (rather like the writer's focus on Jack in SG-1 never meant Hammond was subservient to him), a iittle ineffective maybe, but weak/subservient is a bit of a stretch IMHO.
McKay was Sam's subordinate and she should have showed her support for him while he was there so that he knew he had her backing, and she should have followed through when Ellis continued his bad behavior. Ellis was the one being disrespectful in front of civilians and he deserved to be called out for it in public. Doing so in private didn't bolster Sam's connection to her staff and it was ineffective in quieting Ellis's ill-timed and inappropriate remarks.
The only interaction between Ellis and McKay that I remember after that was when he asked him, a week after he said his program would be ready, if it was ready to be implemented. And while curt and a bit sarcastic, his tone towards McKay had none of the disdain he was expressing earlier. He seemed to learn his lession IMO, while of course at the same time McKay is lying about how ready it is and has to be reminded again to get to work despite the time crunch they're facing.
(Full disclosure, I have a very low McKay tolerance so he gets very little sympathy from me.)
As you point out, she could have freed herself. But in the end she really did nothing but throw a grappling hook and fall. Again I think they wanted to make McKay the hero, but they could have still let Sam be the leader.
I agree with you here. Sam was much better on SGA than S9/10. I just lament all the lost potential for Sam's character as an individual and for the Ship.Last edited by EvenstarSRV; 07 July 2011, 04:48 PM.
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Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View PostI agree. All I'm trying to say is that not living up to potential doesn't make something bad, just not as good as it could have been.
And I don't see how you can have it both ways. Either Sheppard was an ubber hero who overshadowed (and frankly ran rough shod over) the other characters, even his commanders, or Sam was the strong and in charge leader who had him undercontrol. To me it was far too often the former and only very rarely the latter.
That's just how I see it.Last edited by hlndncr; 07 July 2011, 06:04 PM.sigpic
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I haven't seen Continuum yet *blushes*...remember...I just got to watch all of SG1 THIS YEAR! I've fallen woefully behind on SGA season 4, and wanted to wait to watch Continuum in the place it chronologically falls (@ Season 5 opener). I may have to cave...
I also admit that trips to the angst cavern make me weep uncontrollably, and I think with the character deaths (even though it ends up ok) that Continuum floats inside the cavern. Hence weeping. I hate to cry...sigpic
sig by Ikorni
"When Colonel Maybourne and yourself were stranded off world, Major Carter felt a similar sense of frustration. She despaired at the thought of never seeing you again." ~Teal'c
"I didn't leave,because I'd have rather died myself,than lose Carter." ~Jack O'Neill
SaraBahama FanFic; AO3
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