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    Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post

    This is getting a bit ahead of ourselves, but I wanted to comment on the mentions of a possible Sam/Teal'c in Unending, since it's not something I would find out of character for either character even if Sam and Jack were together, it was 50 years after all.

    Jack went from being happily married to Sara to falling in love with Sam in about 5-6 years (before the movie to D&C), and together, Sam and Jack went from being complete strangers to being in love in just over 3 years (COTG to D&C). Plus I'm guessing many shippers believe they fell in love at some point earlier, after Solitudes, POV, 100 days, etc.

    So is it really so hard to believe that Sam and Teal'c, close friends of 10 years, could have possibly gotten together in the 50 years they were stuck on the ship in Unending? I'm sure she would have mourned for Jack and I'm sure that it's not something that would have happened overnight. But I can't see how their relationship would mean that she had to stay single or that a possible Sam/Teal'c relationship would be a betrayal of Jack.

    If Sam and Jack can go from being complete strangers to falling in love in 3 years and becoming a couple in 8-10 years, why is it so impossible for Sam and Teal'c to go from being close friends to being in a relationship in 50 years, esp in the close quarters of that ship?
    what i find wrong with a sam/teal'c hook up is that 'even' if it happened after years of being stuck on a ship together, it would show that the foundation for it had always been there. just like if it happened with sam and daniel on the ship.

    there's different kinds of intimacy that sam and teal'c could have been in, besides it turning to sexual.

    would that have been a betrayal to jack, for sam and teal'c to hook up on that ship? for me, a bit yes, especially from teal'c.

    i could see teal'c lying on a bed with sam, holding her while she falls asleep. i could even see 'sam' just needing some emotional sexual release, especially from someone that would know it for what it was. BUT, i find teal'c to be a much stronger person inside (it's a jaffa thing ), so i'd expect him to not give in to sam (or his own needs), to fulfill a non spoken oath of never taking another man's woman, especially if that man is someone you admire and call friend.

    going back to my first comment: if that had actually happened between sam and teal'c in 'unending', i WOULD have looked at all their prior interactions in a shippy light, b/c i would have known what was just below the surface, only needing certain circumstances to bring it to light.

    it's not bad or wrong, a sam/teal'c hook up, but it breaks my s/j heart to think it could be something to actually happen. like sam and jack (and shippers) didn't have enough obsticals to run through.
    sally

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      Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post
      If Sam and Jack can go from being complete strangers to falling in love in 3 years and becoming a couple in 8-10 years, why is it so impossible for Sam and Teal'c to go from being close friends to being in a relationship in 50 years, esp in the close quarters of that ship?
      It isn't impossible at all for Sam and Teal'c to go from being close friends etc. It could easily have happened. But due to other circumstances (which we never got confirmation on, but which I believe happened anyway), I simply don't believe they moved on to that stage in that 50 years. Could it have happend? Yes. Did it happen? We'll never know; it was only based on a comment that AT made, or I would never have even thought about them that way. So for me, the bottom line is it did not happen.

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        Originally posted by majorsal View Post
        what i find wrong with a sam/teal'c hook up is that 'even' if it happened after years of being stuck on a ship together, it would show that the foundation for it had always been there. just like if it happened with sam and daniel on the ship.
        But IMHO, that foundation is their 10 year friendship, it doesn't have to have to be a sexual attraction or 'true love' or anything along those lines. These were two people who were best friends, they love each other unconditionally, in the platonic sense. Just like, IMHO, Sam and Jack's love for each other started from the platonic level of friendship/camaraderie and later, helped along by circumstances, became more.

        Anything that happened further in Unending would have occurred because of those extreme circumstances, being forced together in close quarters for 50 years and forced to give up the lives (and loves) they'd had.

        there's different kinds of intimacy that sam and teal'c could have been in, besides it turning to sexual.

        would that have been a betrayal to jack, for sam and teal'c to hook up on that ship? for me, a bit yes, especially from teal'c.

        i could see teal'c lying on a bed with sam, holding her while she falls asleep. i could even see 'sam' just needing some emotional sexual release, especially from someone that would know it for what it was. BUT, i find teal'c to be a much stronger person inside (it's a jaffa thing ), so i'd expect him to not give in to sam (or his own needs), to fulfill a non spoken oath of never taking another man's woman, especially if that man is someone you admire and call friend.
        So it's just the idea of it being sexual that's the breaking point? Could Sam and Teal'c have fallen in love with each other in every other way, but not slept with each other, and it'd be ok?

        And again, it was 50 years. As hinted in the episode, Sam reached a point where she confessed to Daniel that she'd given up on going home, that they were going to be stuck on that ship for the rest of their lives. So her life became about surviving that awful situation as best as possible, realizing that Jack and her life back on Earth was as good as dead to her. At that point if Sam and Teal'c, resigned to the fact that their former lives were basically dead to them, started a relationship would that still be a betrayal of Jack?

        going back to my first comment: if that had actually happened between sam and teal'c in 'unending', i WOULD have looked at all their prior interactions in a shippy light, b/c i would have known what was just below the surface, only needing certain circumstances to bring it to light.
        Again, I don't think it has to be a 'shippy light, but simply close friendship. And unless there comes a time when Jack is dead and Sam and Teal'c are stuck together for years, it would likely never come about in our timeline.

        it's not bad or wrong, a sam/teal'c hook up, but it breaks my s/j heart to think it could be something to actually happen. like sam and jack (and shippers) didn't have enough obsticals to run through.
        I can certainly sympathize with that. I'm not saying anyone has to see it that way, as far as I was concerned upon first watch it was simply a beautiful moment of Sam and Teal'c's friendship and one of the saving graces of an, IMHO, mediocre episode. And I loved the fact that it was subtle enough that people could interpret it as they liked, esp in contrast to the, IMHO, overly and poorly done Daniel/Vala ship. I was just confused as to why the idea of it is considered such an impossibility.

        Originally posted by hedwig View Post
        It isn't impossible at all for Sam and Teal'c to go from being close friends etc. It could easily have happened. But due to other circumstances (which we never got confirmation on, but which I believe happened anyway), I simply don't believe they moved on to that stage in that 50 years. Could it have happend? Yes. Did it happen? We'll never know; it was only based on a comment that AT made, or I would never have even thought about them that way. So for me, the bottom line is it did not happen.
        Ah, didn't happen vs couldn't happen. Got it.

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          Originally posted by majorsal View Post
          what i find wrong with a sam/teal'c hook up is that 'even' if it happened after years of being stuck on a ship together, it would show that the foundation for it had always been there. just like if it happened with sam and daniel on the ship.

          there's different kinds of intimacy that sam and teal'c could have been in, besides it turning to sexual.

          would that have been a betrayal to jack, for sam and teal'c to hook up on that ship? for me, a bit yes, especially from teal'c.

          i could see teal'c lying on a bed with sam, holding her while she falls asleep. i could even see 'sam' just needing some emotional sexual release, especially from someone that would know it for what it was. BUT, i find teal'c to be a much stronger person inside (it's a jaffa thing ), so i'd expect him to not give in to sam (or his own needs), to fulfill a non spoken oath of never taking another man's woman, especially if that man is someone you admire and call friend.

          going back to my first comment: if that had actually happened between sam and teal'c in 'unending', i WOULD have looked at all their prior interactions in a shippy light, b/c i would have known what was just below the surface, only needing certain circumstances to bring it to light.

          it's not bad or wrong, a sam/teal'c hook up, but it breaks my s/j heart to think it could be something to actually happen. like sam and jack (and shippers) didn't have enough obsticals to run through.
          Plus a S/T hook up in Unending basically leaves T in love with Sam post Unending - he comes to her when she leaves for Atlantis, he visits her there - it would forever murk the way I see S/T later interactions

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            Originally posted by siles View Post
            Plus a S/T hook up in Unending basically leaves T in love with Sam post Unending - he comes to her when she leaves for Atlantis, he visits her there - it would forever murk the way I see S/T later interactions
            And while we never saw Ishta again after Season 8, I'm thinking she and Teal'c continued their relationship. Which would also be a problem if Sam and Teal'c had been in a relationship. There's Teal'c with all those memories, having to come back and be with Ishta, while Sam doesn't remember any of it.

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              i used to get really irked by any sam/teal'c conversations, but now i'm meh, b/c i *know* it wasn't canon that it even happened!

              it only matters if it makes it to screen... *grumbles about not being SURE if sam and jack are together*...
              sally

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                Originally posted by hedwig View Post
                And while we never saw Ishta again after Season 8, I'm thinking she and Teal'c continued their relationship. Which would also be a problem if Sam and Teal'c had been in a relationship. There's Teal'c with all those memories, having to come back and be with Ishta, while Sam doesn't remember any of it.
                If only Robert Cooper had thought to invite RDA to take part in the last SG-1 episode! It should have been Jack on that ship instead of Landry

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                  Originally posted by siles View Post
                  If only Robert Cooper had thought to invite RDA to take part in the last SG-1 episode! It should have been Jack on that ship instead of Landry
                  jack who?

                  oh, jack o'neill!

                  he wasn't remembered by anyone in the last episode. must have been some sort of mass amnesia. prob from mosquito bites.
                  sally

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                    Originally posted by majorsal View Post
                    jack who?

                    oh, jack o'neill!

                    he wasn't remembered by anyone in the last episode. must have been some sort of mass amnesia. prob from mosquito bites.
                    Mosquitos on the Odyssey???? Did they wander through a swamp or something?

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                      Originally posted by siles View Post
                      If only Robert Cooper had thought to invite RDA to take part in the last SG-1 episode! It should have been Jack on that ship instead of Landry
                      Heck yeah! Should've been Jack.

                      When we got done watching that episode, my husband (who is also a fan...thank goodness) said..."WHAT WAS THAT?! Is that the best they could do for a last episode??" I felt the same way.

                      BTW -all of the S/T talk is beginning to weird me out a little. I just NEVER saw it that way. He always seemed brotherly to Sam, and I interpreted the events of 'Unending' in that light.
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                      sig by Ikorni

                      "When Colonel Maybourne and yourself were stranded off world, Major Carter felt a similar sense of frustration. She despaired at the thought of never seeing you again." ~Teal'c
                      "I didn't leave,because I'd have rather died myself,than lose Carter." ~Jack O'Neill


                      SaraBahama FanFic; AO3

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                        Originally posted by hedwig View Post
                        Mosquitos on the Odyssey???? Did they wander through a swamp or something?
                        oh, the mosquitoes were at the sgc first!
                        sally

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                          Ok...back to the reason for the thread...

                          I think the reason I originally bought into the 'ship was (among other things):
                          -'100 Days': Sam admits to Janet that she misses him, pulls all-nighters to create an invention that defies the science she has pioneered just to bring the man home, and looks crushed at the end of the ep. when she realizes something's going on between him and Laira.
                          -'Divide & Conquer': Jack blatantly admits that he didn't leave her behind because he would rather die than lose her, and he cares about her.
                          -'Grace': Sam's conversation with her hallucination of Jack saying that it wouldn't be easy to walk away if he confirmed he did not have feelings for her.
                          -'Threads': need I point to the obvious prolific evidence? one word: ALWAYS.

                          There are so many hugs, kisses, and glances so as to make stronger people than myself swoon.

                          It has been pointed out that the writers wrote all of the UST into the series because it made people like us keep tuning in, which made them money. So it would have been poor business sense to resovle that tension...hence no confirmation. I had just hoped that since the series has come to and end (and with the ending of SGU esp. & the age of Sam and Jack by this point in particular) that it would be possible for the writers to resolve it and give us what we want before the whole thing is done and gone.

                          PLEASE...if the people who make these decisions is listening...please make a 3rd movie and resolve this for us!!!!!

                          'K...I'm done.
                          sigpic
                          sig by Ikorni

                          "When Colonel Maybourne and yourself were stranded off world, Major Carter felt a similar sense of frustration. She despaired at the thought of never seeing you again." ~Teal'c
                          "I didn't leave,because I'd have rather died myself,than lose Carter." ~Jack O'Neill


                          SaraBahama FanFic; AO3

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                            I have plenty of things to say about Unending, but I’ll save my comments for that time.

                            So for now I’ll just share a few of my thoughts on Uninvited.

                            The location of the Jack’s cabin is obviously a problem. Frankly, I think it would have been better if they would have used a different exterior and just called it Landry’s cabin. Landry acted like he was very familiar with the place and the people, and then it actually could have been located in Colorado.

                            The other problem I have with Landry and SG1 plus Vala (because she still isn’t a member of the team yet is she?) having a get away at the cabin without Jack is that the cabin always seemed to me like it was a special place for Jack and he wouldn’t let just anyone borrow it. Landry does say he was there the previous summer. And we do know that Jack and Landry are friends (and likely go way back); so maybe they’re fishing buddies. But it still kind of bothers me that Landry seems to feel so at home there--perhaps because I consider the cabin as Sam and Jack’s special place. But I think the only reason Jack agreed to let everyone stay at his cabin without him there was because Sam was going to be there. I’m sure all of them know that Sam and Jack are together and when she’s around they are essentially her guests.

                            I was very happy to see Sam in charge of the SGC it’s the kind of responsibility that she deserves and is clearly capable of handling. It shows for me that she must be going along with Mitchell being in command of SG1 rather than pushing for a command of her own for reasons of her own; like perhaps she’s afraid he’s going to get himself or her closest friends killed if she’s not around to keep an eye on him and try to reign him in.

                            As for Sam and Vala’s relationship, I don’t sense that they get along very well at this point. In fact it quite surprises me that they become friends and shopping buddies just a few episodes down the road. Here Sam doesn’t really seem anxious to spend time with Vala and appears to be rather annoyed with her. Personally, I prefer a little bit of tension between them. I don’t think they would become friends very quickly, and I don’t see them as ever being best friends.

                            I will say that I like Vala much better when Daniel isn’t around. Having her paired with Teal’c or Mitchell is much less annoying to watch. I actually kind of like it when Teal’c and Vala work together. He makes a good foil for her because she absolutely can’t ruffle his feathers.

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                              (Summary from GateWorld episode guide)

                              General Jack O'Neill has ordered Lt. Colonels Samantha Carter and Cameron Mitchell, Dr. Daniel Jackson, Teal'c, and Vala Mal Doran to review a movie script by Martin Lloyd. His failed television show based on the Stargate program, Wormhole X-Treme!, is being turned into a feature film!

                              The script opens with SG-1 finally meeting the elusive Furlings face-to-face. They are fury, panda-like creatures. But the Goa'uld attack, and Carter is unable to prevent a thermodynamic loop from feeding back into the planet's core. With a shrug, she and Jackson beam out as the world is blown apart.

                              At the real Stargate Command, Carter points out this never happened -- but Mitchell contends that a movie should open big! Sam thinks it's wrong to have the heroes cause a major catastrophe. Mitchell thinks the script review will be fun, while Jackson snipes that Mitchell thinks everything is fun. Vala notes the absence of a sexy, female alien in the movie script -- namely, her. General Landry promises to rescue them after they've spent some time around the conference table with Martin.

                              Cut to Mitchell's pitch for an action-packed movie scene: S.G.C. personnel have been transformed into marauding zombies by Telchak's device ("Evolution, Part 2"). Guns blazing, Cam fights his way to the gate, intent on returning the device that has caused this mayhem. Shooting zombies left and right, he orders Walter Harriman to dial the gate. But it is too late -- the control room has been overrun, and the zombies get the poor technician.

                              Martin interrupts the pitch, saying zombies have been done to death. (Jackson wants to know where the rest of SG-1 was during Mitchell's heroics.) When Marty receives a phone call from the studio telling him that his lead actor Nick Marlowe has backed out, the team offers ways to refer to the character, including phone calls. Mitchell suggests just bringing in another character. Martin wants them to pitch cool ideas like body switching, prompting Carter to recall a time O'Neill was rendered invisible by alien technology.

                              Landry interrupts to send SG-1 and Vala on a recon mission. Mitchell is especially enthusiastic because it will be his 200th trip through the Stargate. The gate, however, fails to power up. They'll have to go back to the conference room with Martin while diagnostics are performed.
                              Cut to SG-1 -- with 10 seconds to get through the gate, pursued by Replicators to a cliff's edge. On the plain below, between them and the gate, Al'kesh ships. But it's just another scene from the script.

                              Martin calls a break to write down Carter's techno-talk as she explains why the gate isn't working. Vala pitches a story that casts her as Dorothy, Carter as a Tok'ra, Mitchell as the Scarecrow, Teal'c as the Tin Man, Jackson as the Cowardly Lion and Landry as the Ascended being, a.k.a., "The Wizard of Oz." Her request -- she originally just wanted to go home, but now she wants to be a part of something -- a regular part. Martin recognizes the story and dismisses the eager Vala.

                              In Martin's new end to Act Two, the Stargate capacitors overload in an attempt to fix it, blowing up Cheyenne Mountain! Fortuitously, the heroes beam out, prompting a discussion of convenience beaming in science fiction.

                              Martin moves to Scene 24: a Star Trek homage with Mitchell as Captain Kirk, Carter as the blond assistant infatuated with Kirk, Teal'c as Worf and Jackson as the science officer. Reading the script, Jackson pronounces the whole scene ridiculous, and Teal'c wonders why everything must explode in the movie. Mitchell suggests never underestimating the audience, as "they are sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

                              After another studio call, Marty reveals that when the star won't sign, a junior network execuctive wants to recast the team with younger, edgier versions.

                              Vala next tries to pitch Gilligan's Island. When Martin catches on, she recasts Farscape -- with Carter as Chiana, Teal'c as D'Argo, Jackson as Crichton, herself as Aeryn, Thor as Rygel, and Mitchell as Stark.

                              Vala asks why Martin wasn't just given the mission files -- all 1,263 of them. Jackson and Carter reveal there is a mission file Mitchell hasn't read. They won't tell him, but they tell Vala that "File 30185" concerns their trip to 1969 ("1969"), and that Mitchell was born 9 months later -- implying that he made it into the F-302 program and into SG-1 because Jack O'Neill is his daddy. Mitchell finally realizes he's being punked.

                              With his actors holding out, Martin ponders the possibility of doing his movie without them. In a scene done completely with puppets, General Hammond puts together a marionette SG-1 team about to step through the Stargate for the first time.

                              At the real S.G.C., General O'Neill arrives just as Teal'c pitches a show about himself in a trench coat, hat, and earrings: Teal'c P.I. With the gate fixed, Colonel Mitchell invites O'Neill on his 200th trip through the Stargate.

                              When Martin wants a new ending for the movie, O'Neill suggests fishing ("Moebius, Part 2"). Martin wonders what the twist is -- no fish?

                              Vala suggests a wedding. Daniel is Jack's best man in the fantasy scene, though he is concerned that if Carter doesn't show up for their big day, people will think he and Jack are marrying! Thor, Carter, and Vala (her maid of honor), beam in. Despite the intimate moment, O'Neill calls her "Carter" and she calls him "sir."

                              In the real world, General Landry announces the mission to P2C-106 a go. O'Neill invites Landry, who in turn invites Walter to join them. When Walter enters the gate room, Landry asks if everything is ready. SG teams 3 through 18, cake, balloons, and streamers are waiting on the other side to commemorate Mitchell's 200th trip.

                              O'Neill invites Martin to go along in search of his ending, but the producer announces that the movie has been cancelled. The TV series, however, has been renewed! Skip ahead to Wormhole X-Treme!, 10 years later, wrapping their own 200th episode. As he and the Wormhole actors do interviews, Martin learns that the movie is back on.

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                                "200" - Oh, I remember how I waited with baited breath Jack's return; we would have gotten our first glimpse of Sam/Jack together post S8

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