Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Ties That Bind - The Powers That Be

    Generally, both are heavily Vala focused - one on getting her disconnected from Daniel; one on exploring her rather shady past and continuing the redemption of her character through her efforts to heal the people on the planet. Again, my main thought here was why was so much time being spent on Vala rather than Mitchell? The second thought is that the latter episode is quite important for stating the difference in approach between the Ori and Earth: religious fanatacism versus freedom of expression and choice.

    Sam and Jack

    Not a great deal here at all but there is the conversation Landry has with the Pentagon liaison who tells him that Landry has to fight it out for budget as Atlantis and the ship programme is the main focus, but that Jack is willing to go to bat for him if necessary.

    Personally I interpret this as another sign that unlike S8 where it was fairly clear that Jack reported to Hammond, that it is likely that Landry does not report to Jack. There's a subtle distancing in the way the aide speaks that suggests Jack is in a position to influence things for the SGC but is no longer representing them as he would presumably if he was still in the chain of command. I also concede that I may be wearing shippy glasses through which I see no chain of command = Sam and Jack together.

    Beachhead

    Generally, I don't like Beachhead as an episode because I think they tried to do Vala leaving and Sam coming back in the same episode with the result being that Sam gets a lousy deal - in fact the whole team gets a lousy deal in order to make Vala look like a hero (they stand around looking like this is the first crisis they've ever had while Vala runs off to save the galaxy all on her own) and while I like Vala as a character I have issues with that.

    Sam and Jack

    Three things really strike me:

    One is that Sam and Jack have talked about the plan, so they have had contact (and I actually think this is one time Sam mentions Jack in episodes where he doesn't appear) and do talk to each other.

    Secondly, Jack has influence in getting Sam temporarily assigned to help out with the bomb (it's clear from the dialogue that at this point Sam is only there to help out with the bomb not to rejoin the SGC). Again, I always think that part of Jack's job at this point is negotiating the interaction between the various bits of the programme, responsible for Earth safety, huge amounts of influence, but with no real command other than his own staff. And yes, clearly, he and Sam set up Landry with that phone call (her smile is so smug).

    Thirdly, at the end of the episode, Sam still isn't reassigned back to the SGC. Her presence is still only as a temporary helper so something must happen in this gap between Beachhead and EDM to get her reassigned formerly.
    sigpic
    Women of the Gate LJ Community.
    My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

    Comment


      Spoilered for length.

      Spoiler:
      Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
      Ties That Bind - The Powers That Be

      Generally, both are heavily Vala focused - one on getting her disconnected from Daniel; one on exploring her rather shady past and continuing the redemption of her character through her efforts to heal the people on the planet. Again, my main thought here was why was so much time being spent on Vala rather than Mitchell? The second thought is that the latter episode is quite important for stating the difference in approach between the Ori and Earth: religious fanatacism versus freedom of expression and choice.

      Sam and Jack

      Not a great deal here at all but there is the conversation Landry has with the Pentagon liaison who tells him that Landry has to fight it out for budget as Atlantis and the ship programme is the main focus, but that Jack is willing to go to bat for him if necessary.

      Personally I interpret this as another sign that unlike S8 where it was fairly clear that Jack reported to Hammond, that it is likely that Landry does not report to Jack. There's a subtle distancing in the way the aide speaks that suggests Jack is in a position to influence things for the SGC but is no longer representing them as he would presumably if he was still in the chain of command. I also concede that I may be wearing shippy glasses through which I see no chain of command = Sam and Jack together.

      Beachhead

      Generally, I don't like Beachhead as an episode because I think they tried to do Vala leaving and Sam coming back in the same episode with the result being that Sam gets a lousy deal - in fact the whole team gets a lousy deal in order to make Vala look like a hero (they stand around looking like this is the first crisis they've ever had while Vala runs off to save the galaxy all on her own) and while I like Vala as a character I have issues with that.

      Sam and Jack

      Three things really strike me:

      One is that Sam and Jack have talked about the plan, so they have had contact (and I actually think this is one time Sam mentions Jack in episodes where he doesn't appear) and do talk to each other.

      Secondly, Jack has influence in getting Sam temporarily assigned to help out with the bomb (it's clear from the dialogue that at this point Sam is only there to help out with the bomb not to rejoin the SGC). Again, I always think that part of Jack's job at this point is negotiating the interaction between the various bits of the programme, responsible for Earth safety, huge amounts of influence, but with no real command other than his own staff. And yes, clearly, he and Sam set up Landry with that phone call (her smile is so smug).

      Thirdly, at the end of the episode, Sam still isn't reassigned back to the SGC. Her presence is still only as a temporary helper so something must happen in this gap between Beachhead and EDM to get her reassigned formerly.


      Excellent post.

      I must be wearing the same prescription shipper glasses you are as I too see that and are got together in the interregnum between S8 and S9.
      No Sam w/o a Jack and no Jack w/o a Sam.
      It's like and immutable law of the multiverse.

      Comment


        Originally posted by banlu View Post
        Rachel, I hadn't really thought of the plotline that way - Cam was dissed by the writers in a lot of ways, now that I think of it. If AT hadn't been on maternity leave, would the character of Mitchell had been brought in at all? Would he be her 2IC? Would Landry instead have been given a larger part, nearing the screen time of RDA?

        Would Vala have ever been brought back? Would they still have done the Ori plotline? Would Sam have become the mother of the Orici?
        My 2 cents, with the disclaimer that S9/10 are my least favorite seasons of all of SG-1, in particular the Mitchell as SG-1 leader and Ori storylines.

        Since I believe Vala was initially there as a temporary fill-in for Sam, if AT had not been on maternity leave for the beginning of S9 I'm inclined to think that Vala would not have been brought back and the Ori storyline would have been initiated by some other means. Really, all the writers would have needed to do was have Daniel discover the Ancient tablet himself, from say Catherine's collection, or with SG-1 on a mission rather than have Vala bring it to him. We would have also potentially been spared Adria and that whole Orici storyline, which I found quite ridiculous.

        I also kinda doubt SG-1 would have been broken up since IMO the main reason for the Sam going to Area 51 storyline was to cover for AT's absence. So if Sam was there at the beginning of S9 I'd see little reason to move her character off-screen in that way or break up the rest of the team. Mitchell would have most likely been brought in as a Major and Carter's 2IC, and Daniel's planned trip to Atlantis would be more like a temporary trip ala PU. Teal'c I can see leaving SG-1 to take up a leadership position with the Free Jaffa Nation, but I think it could have also worked for him to be their liaison to the SGC and remaining on SG-1.

        One of my main issues with Mitchell as written being SG-1 leader is that he was given the position despite having absolutely no gate experience. If the network insisted on Mitchell being SG-1 leader, the only way I could see doing that fairly, esp if AT/Sam was present at the beginning of S9, is if he was brought in as a full-bird Colonel and leader of another SG team and it was at Landry's order that he become the leader of SG-1 instead of Sam, since Jack apparently had no issue with her as the leader in S8.

        As for Sam/Jack, I fervantly hoped that Sam's "personal reasons" involved Jack, especially after the fishing scene was shown twice, reinforcing the "we should have done this years ago" sentiment. By selling off his stuff, it was obvious that he had no reasons to maintain his ties to Colorado Springs. Makes me wonder if he regreted doing so after everyone else ended up staying there after all.
        re Sam and Jack, I'm a non-shipper for the show, but I think Annerb's DC series comes closest to how I'd imagine their relationship progressed post-S8. I think after taking at least a couple of months of space to find her equilibrium again after Jacob's death and breaking up with Pete, Sam would be the one to approach Jack about starting a relationship, since he'd already taken the first step with his 'Always'.

        sigpic

        Comment


          Thanks for all the great discussion everyone. I so want to add my 2 cents, but work is kicking my butt right now. Hopefully I'll have some time to catch up this weekend.

          Meanwhile, here's the next episode.


          by hlndncr

          Summary:
          (from GateWorld episode guide)

          A Jaffa marked under the service of Lord Yu has been discovered dead (the victim of a hit and run) on a remote road in Virginia. Teal'c is aware that many of Yu's Jaffa are now under Gerak's banner. He and Colonel Mitchell leave for Dakara to investigate.

          Meanwhile, Dr. Jackson and Colonel Carter investigate the region around where the Jaffa was found. A plant belonging to Farrow-Marshall, which closed down six months before, was within two miles of where the Jaffa was found, and during the same day the company's chief financial officer, Alex Jameson, went missing.

          Teal'c addresses the Jaffa council, and afterward shows a picture of the Jaffa to Gerak, who claims he never knew him. But both Teal'c and Mitchell are convinced he is lying through his teeth.

          Daniel meets with Alex Jameson's wife, Sheila, who tells him she noticed an unusual change in her husband's behavior six months before. Fearing an affair, she had a private investigator follow him, but only two days into his duties he gave her her money back and strongly suggested she drop the matter entirely. Scared, he requested the few photos he took back. She refused. Daniel requests to borrow them and she consents.

          Gerak visits a prison chamber on Dakara where Yat'Yir has been exercising his handiwork. A battered and beaten Alex Jameson has withstood physical torture. As Gerak promises him that the Jaffa will soon possess the information he seeks, Jameson's eyes glow.

          Colonel Carter visits Farrow-Marshall headquarters and speaks with Charlotte Mayfield, VP of the company. When Carter tells her evidence of trucks moving in and out of their closed Virginia plant and a press to uncover the missing Jameson and his whereabouts, she is eventually shown the door. Down the hall, Mayfield returns to a surveillance center, where Baal has been watching the cameras.

          Teal'c consults other council members but none are willing to divulge information, save one, Ka'lel, who tells both he and Mitchell that Baal took refuge on Earth following the battle for Dakara -- and Gerak is busily attempting to reacquire him.

          The Goa'uld in Jameson reveals Baal's new location and a cargo ship loaded with Jaffa troops lands atop the Farrow-Marshall complex in the middle of the night. Defended by a task force of personnel, Baal narrowly evades capture.

          Stargate Command receives a message from Baal himself, declaring his intentions to live out his existence peacefully on Earth, obeying Earth laws. In exchange, he wishes to be left alone. To insure that this happens, he says that he has placed a naquadah bomb somewhere in the United States.

          Jackson and Carter team up with Agent Barrett to move in and capture Baal, who has been reported spotted in a hotel. Meanwhile, Mitchell and Teal'c board the Prometheus to search for a Jaffa presence in Earth's star system. On the surface, Barrett orders the mission aborted, despite the fact that Daniel and an agent have someone who looks like Baal in their sights, but across town the former System Lord is giving a televised speech in regards to his recent acquisition of another firm.

          Prometheus finds a mothership hidden behind Earth's moon, commanded by Yat'Yir, who does not wish to engage in battle but refuses to withdraw. But Teal'c intends to shame Gerak into removing his forces from Earth in front of the council. In shock, he learns the council has been aware of the operation. He presses that, after all the Tau'ri have done for the new Jaffa nation, they at least owe Earth the respect of remaining up front with the truth.

          General Landry decides to continue with their own operation despite the Jaffa's own attempts. The modified Tok'ra symbiote poison is loaded into a missile and poised to attack a compound where Baal has been spotted. Baal receives intelligence that this threat is coming and promises that a naquadah bomb will now detonate the Helcyon Tower in downtown Seattle.

          As the symbiote poison missile hits it's target Gerak's forces attempt to capture Baal. Prometheus beams Carter to the tower where she soon deduces that the building's infrastructure is laced with naquadah. Before it detonates, Prometheus beams the entire building into space, where it explodes. Fortunately, a five-block radius was evacuated, so no one saw the beam-out.

          Teal'c returns to Dakara and learns of Baal's capture. Before his very eyes the former System Lord is executed. He reports this to Stargate Command who reveals evidence that Baal has been cloning himself. It's possible the Baal that was killed on Dakara was not the real Baal at all. When Mitchell suggests that he report this to the council, Teal'c declines. Gerak has fought hard for a victory, and to tell them now would not be the right thing to do.

          Baal sits and watches Julia Donovan's news report about the unusual gas explosion at the Helcyon Tower. Nearby, another Baal enjoys a box of Chinese take-out. Baal's secretary sits patiently as yet another Baal pours her a drink, and a drink for indeed another Baal who is reading a newspaper. Baal himself, marked by his symbol on his shirt, tells the three clones that he will head to bed early. Tomorrow is a big day.

          Sam & Jack:

          Some of the action takes place in Virginia. Is it possible that Sam has a free moment to visit with Jack?

          Kerry Johnson is mentioned. Are she and Jack still in touch (professionally of course)?

          Sam tells Barrett she took the job at Area 51 for Cassie.

          Barrett seems to want to ask Sam out when she tells him she's no longer with Pete, but when he asks if she's single she responds, "Not exactly."
          Last edited by hlndncr; May 12, 2011, 09:17 AM.

          Comment


            Grrrr - This morning, I had a post all written up (before EvenstarSRV posted her comments), and was about two lines from being finished, when the browser froze.

            Just got time again.

            So these are comments on 'Powers That Be' and 'Beachhead'. (as best I can remember )

            Let's see, I was responding to the Vala thing, and I rememeber writing "So I guess AT got pregnant six months too soon."

            What I meant by that, was if her maternity leave had happened during the season, then Mitchell would at first have been her 2IC, but then Sam would be captured, and we could have had a great "Search for Sam", with her prefilming a lot of her pregnant with the Orici scenes (no padding needed). Mitchell would have stepped up to lead the search, and we'd get angsty Jack, forced to watch from afar.

            And I agree about Mitchell being given command of SG-1 with no offworld experiance. But since SG-1 was being built from scratch, and neither Sam, Daniel nor Teal'c was to be involved, Jack wouldn't be turning over their safety to Mitchell, so maybe he didn't have that much of a problem.

            But with the way the team was brought back together, they should have had a scene where who was in charge was established - though with those three, anything Mithcell said was more like a suggestion LOL

            These are from the production notes at the end of the summary on Gateworld

            "'Powers That Be' is a big Vala episode. I think all of us were sort of chomping at the bit to write a Vala episode before we lost her. So I'm just glad to get one in."
            (Writer Martin Gero, in an interview with GateWorld)

            "I had a blast writing my SG-1 episode this year. I had all last season to get caught up on all my SG-1 mythology. The new characters are so much fun to write for (not that the old characters aren't) -- Vala is like writer candy. You just can't go wrong with that character. (no name given)
            Sooo - this explains why Mitchell was kind of pushed to one side by the writers.

            I never liked the Ori as bad guys - they were too "Magical", so powerful in ways Earth didn't understand, how could they be beaten? Even though technology allowed the Priors to access the powers of the Ori, the power itself was seemingly unstoppable, especially compared to that of the Goa'uld (who's only power seemed to boosting the health of their hosts and controlling their minds).

            Yes, they needed an army to conquer our galaxy, but that was only because they wanted live worshippers. If the Prior wanted to wipe out your entire planet, what could mere humans do to stop them? Traditional weapons, which did work against the Goa'uld, are of no use.

            Good science fiction requires bad guys using science, and the Ori, at this point, didn't seem to need it. So after the Ori Army invasion, the threat is so immediate, that an ep such as 'Ex Deus Machina' almost seems out of place - why are SG-1 bothering with a Goa'uld? Let less important people deal with them.

            But then we wouldn't have gotten Sam's "Not exactly." Wheee!

            banlu

            I was weaned on Mulder/Scully ship, so I learned a long time ago to glean what I could from what the writers deigned to give us
            sigpic
            It failed to qualify as a cave, technically speaking, but Jack called it one anyway.
            He'd never been one for speaking technically.

            Jaunt to Paradise - Spiletta42

            Comment


              Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
              Wow! Great reviews hlndncr! I wish I could green you but alas I have to share the love first apparently.

              So, Avalon-Origin:

              Generally
              I began my first watch of Season 9 fairly excited. Although I knew RDA was leaving, I was excited by the fact that Ben Browder was joining the cast and interested to know how they were planning to 'reboot' the series given the unexpected non-cancellation. I was a little unnerved about Vala/Claudia Black joining to cover for Amanda's absence due to her maternity leave but that was more because of Prometheus Unbound than anything else.
              The first time I watched S9 & S10 I couldn't stop thinking, "I miss Jack." Well, I still miss Jack, but I'm trying to give it a chance on its own merits. Still, there are so many things that tick me off.

              Big ones . . .

              Mitchell in charge of SG1. Not just because he took it from Sam, but he's not qualified (and he lacks judgment). Also just the notion that you need a heroic male lead to carry the show. I know AT's pregnancy complicated that issue, but I still felt some lingering sexism in their decisions.

              And as to AT being on maternity leave . . . why did she need a temporary replacement? They already had several new characters to introduce. An additional guest character (that sucked all the air from the room) was not necessary. But the execs finally got their sexy female alien and I think that was the main selling point.

              I enjoyed Avalon - primarily loved the flashbacks and the snippets where Jack(!) and Sam(!) both appeared. I wasn't expecting that and it was a lovely surprise.
              Liked seeing them yes. Really disappointed that we didn't get any hint they were together. In fact, Jack selling off everything he owned was really upsetting to me the first time I watched it because it sounded like he had moved away, cut all ties, and wasn't looking back. I think that did a disservice to his character.

              While the team breaking up and moving onto other things was a shock (and I think we were all meant to sympathise with Mitchell), it made sense in light of the storylines at the end of S8.
              Another issue I had with Avalon is that not only was I meant to sympathize with Mitchell, I was supposed to adore him. I felt like they were pushing him down my throat (so anxious to avoid the Jonas backlash I suppose) that I actually liked him less.

              So where did it all start to go wrong for me? Possibly once they got to the Ori galaxy and it was Daniel and Vala who went rather than Mitchell and Daniel. Mitchell, the new lead was effectively relegated to the C plot of the episode in Origin. At this point, I think they missed the opportunity to (a) let us spend time getting to know Mitchell who was the new regular and (b) to give Mitchell a personal connection to the fight.
              I agree with this completely! The show really wasn't bad until it became the D/V show. I don't particularly care for the Vala character, and I don't like Daniel's character when she is around. I think she would have been alright as an occasional recurring character that gave us a wider view of the galactic situation like Bra'tac and Jacob had. But she got old for me really fast. And as Rachel points out, they lost the chance to make Mitchell a real part of the show's main storyline.

              That said, I liked Mitchell's introduction for the most part (will get round to the leadership issue when we hit Sam's return).
              I'll be saying it again and again, making Mitchell the leader was a bad choice for so many reasons. And I'll surely elaborate as we move through these seasons.

              Sam and Jack

              I love the hints through Avalon: that Sam left for "personal reason" and Jack selling a motorcycle when the only one ever mentioned before is the one Sam owns. There'a a sense that one of the reasons for the professional changes (although not the only one I'm certain - I'm sure they both deserved and were awarded their positions on merit) we see is because Sam and Jack have decided to pursue a personal relationship.

              While it's tenuous, there is the suggestion that Sam and Jack are likely to be out of each others' chain of command. She has moved to Area 51/Groom Lake; he's at Homeworld. Because she's still working in R&D I would assume it's likely there's still a conflict of him having some oversight of her work but I would say he's out of her reporting line at this point.

              Of course, many people in the past have noted that the fact that Jack turns up to give Mitchell a pep talk in the F302 at the end of Origin is because Sam told him to after her own discussion with Mitchell; that Jack's allusion to being able to get things as a two-star is an allusion back to his realisation in New Order that being a General meant getting everything he wanted - that he now has.
              I already mentioned my issue with Jack selling everything.

              (Just as an aside: I also don't get why Sam is on Prometheus working on deep space plotting and then when the team goes to the ship, she's suddenly left to work on something else. Granted they didn't specify the Prometheus in this ep, but they do later. I just think helping the Daedalus prep for the trip to Atlantis would have made more sense.)

              Despite the failure to properly address and confirm their relationship (and there was really no good reason not to) I remain firmly convinced that Sam and Jack would not walk away from the implicit promises they made to one another in Threads.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Zoser View Post
                Rachel500

                Jack is The Man - not just as a general but in Sam's life as well.
                I believe between season 8 and the seasons I don't believe exist was the perfect opportunity for Jack and Sam to get together and possibly marry to prevent any future chain of command problems.

                I agree Mitchell was left hanging as it became the 'Daniel and Vala Hour' instead of Stargate
                OK, I'm too lazy to make a massive multi-quote. So instead you're getting multiple replies.

                I just had to say

                I agree with all of this 100%!

                Comment


                  Originally posted by banlu View Post
                  I didn't like Vala until the last half of the last season, when she had mellowed. I remember thinking, that while the other characters found both her and Mckay annoying, I found it fun to watch McKay annoy people, but watching Vala annoyed me!
                  I always liked McKay, but it was true he was the writers' darling on SGA and it annoyed a lot of people who didn't like his character or felt other characters suffered as a result. I have greater sympathy for those fans when I think of how I was made to endure Vala and especially D/V.

                  Rachel, I hadn't really thought of the plotline that way - Cam was dissed by the writers in a lot of ways, now that I think of it. If AT hadn't been on maternity leave, would the character of Mitchell had been brought in at all? Would he be her 2IC?
                  I think we would have gotten Mitchell even if AT had been available at the start of the season. As I said before, there is the idea that we must have a male lead. He perhaps he could have been brought on (likely with a lower rank) just as his character says to join SG1 and learn from the best. I would have been fine with that because I thought they needed a fourth in S8 for Sam to train and lead. Then I think we would have gotten more team stories and leadership from Sam. My fear is that even with AT from the start Mitchell still would have been made the leader (likely with a higher rank).

                  Would Landry instead have been given a larger part, nearing the screen time of RDA?
                  I think Landry was always meant to be a Hammond replacement, not based on the RDA model. But I've been going through all of S9 and Landry does play a significant role in a lot of stories. I think, however, that's because the team almost never goes out on missions together. (And I'm sure I'll have a lot more to say about that.)

                  Would Vala have ever been brought back?
                  I don't think so, at least not as a major character. She might have done one or two guest apperances as a contact with the Lucian Alliance or other galactic players, which I would have been fine with. I don't think her character fit in as a regular, nor was it necessary even with AT out.

                  Would they still have done the Ori plotline?
                  Yes, I'm sure they would have. I think the Ori plotline came before any specific casting decisions.

                  Would Sam have become the mother of the Orici?
                  That storyline actually came about because they wanted to bring back Claudia Black at the end of S9 (working toward making her a regular in S10), but she was very pregnant. The Orici storyline was their way of working around her pregnancy.

                  However, that would have been really interesting and shocking to have Sam pregnant with the Orici. I think it could have worked. But then I think the fallout to her relationship with Jack would have to be addressed.

                  As for Sam/Jack, I fervantly hoped that Sam's "personal reasons" involved Jack, especially after the fishing scene was shown twice, reinforcing the "we should have done this years ago" sentiment. By selling off his stuff, it was obvious that he had no reasons to maintain his ties to Colorado Springs. Makes me wonder if he regreted doing so after everyone else ended up staying there after all.
                  I don't see how Sam going to Area 51 means Jack no longer has any ties in Colorado Springs and was one of the reasons why I didn't like the complete break selling all his stuff represented. I thought that was a way of telegraphing to the fans that Jack is gone and don't expect him to stop by. (And thanks to really poor scheduling RDA's limited visits were largely wasted spent on SGA.)

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by yessika View Post
                    I really liked Vala but I couldn't stand Mitchell or the Ori storyline. If it weren't for the Daniel/Vala interaction and the Ancients' Arthurian storyline, I don't think I would have watched seasons 9 and 10.
                    The Ori never made sense to me. They weren't that interesting and the whole power from worshipers thing was far to vague and supernatural. I wish they would have focused more on the Arthurian legend. There were a lot of interesting possibities that weren't tapped.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                      Ties That Bind - The Powers That Be

                      Generally, both are heavily Vala focused - one on getting her disconnected from Daniel; one on exploring her rather shady past and continuing the redemption of her character through her efforts to heal the people on the planet. Again, my main thought here was why was so much time being spent on Vala rather than Mitchell? The second thought is that the latter episode is quite important for stating the difference in approach between the Ori and Earth: religious fanatacism versus freedom of expression and choice.

                      Sam and Jack

                      Not a great deal here at all but there is the conversation Landry has with the Pentagon liaison who tells him that Landry has to fight it out for budget as Atlantis and the ship programme is the main focus, but that Jack is willing to go to bat for him if necessary.

                      Personally I interpret this as another sign that unlike S8 where it was fairly clear that Jack reported to Hammond, that it is likely that Landry does not report to Jack. There's a subtle distancing in the way the aide speaks that suggests Jack is in a position to influence things for the SGC but is no longer representing them as he would presumably if he was still in the chain of command. I also concede that I may be wearing shippy glasses through which I see no chain of command = Sam and Jack together.

                      Beachhead

                      Generally, I don't like Beachhead as an episode because I think they tried to do Vala leaving and Sam coming back in the same episode with the result being that Sam gets a lousy deal - in fact the whole team gets a lousy deal in order to make Vala look like a hero (they stand around looking like this is the first crisis they've ever had while Vala runs off to save the galaxy all on her own) and while I like Vala as a character I have issues with that.

                      Sam and Jack

                      Three things really strike me:

                      One is that Sam and Jack have talked about the plan, so they have had contact (and I actually think this is one time Sam mentions Jack in episodes where he doesn't appear) and do talk to each other.

                      Secondly, Jack has influence in getting Sam temporarily assigned to help out with the bomb (it's clear from the dialogue that at this point Sam is only there to help out with the bomb not to rejoin the SGC). Again, I always think that part of Jack's job at this point is negotiating the interaction between the various bits of the programme, responsible for Earth safety, huge amounts of influence, but with no real command other than his own staff. And yes, clearly, he and Sam set up Landry with that phone call (her smile is so smug).

                      Thirdly, at the end of the episode, Sam still isn't reassigned back to the SGC. Her presence is still only as a temporary helper so something must happen in this gap between Beachhead and EDM to get her reassigned formerly.
                      I agree with everything you've said. Sam calls Vala a "back-up singer" but she's the one who really takes the backseat from here on out.

                      What I don't get is why, when, how Sam and Teal'c end up back on SG1. It just happens and it's never really explained.

                      The one thing I like about Beachhead is that it does demonstrate for me that Sam and Jack are closely in touch. Jack's little prank on Landry wouldn't have worked if Sam wasn't in on it.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by banlu View Post
                        I never liked the Ori as bad guys - they were too "Magical", so powerful in ways Earth didn't understand, how could they be beaten? Even though technology allowed the Priors to access the powers of the Ori, the power itself was seemingly unstoppable, especially compared to that of the Goa'uld (who's only power seemed to boosting the health of their hosts and controlling their minds).

                        Yes, they needed an army to conquer our galaxy, but that was only because they wanted live worshippers. If the Prior wanted to wipe out your entire planet, what could mere humans do to stop them? Traditional weapons, which did work against the Goa'uld, are of no use.

                        Good science fiction requires bad guys using science, and the Ori, at this point, didn't seem to need it. So after the Ori Army invasion, the threat is so immediate, that an ep such as 'Ex Deus Machina' almost seems out of place - why are SG-1 bothering with a Goa'uld? Let less important people deal with them.
                        Great analysis of the problems with the Ori as villians. Also the Goa'uld had a lot of diverse and interesting personalities and they were also very snappy dressers. The Ori were just a wall of virtual fire hanging out in the higher planes. So boring!

                        Comment


                          My thoughts on Ex Deus Machina:

                          Once again I think Sam is suddenly dumb. She's usually the one with the great ideas, but now she runs around with no clue what to do. Thank goodness for Mitchell being there to save the day.

                          Also, I've never cared for Jaffa stories, but the whole Garek storyline (and the actor's performance) were just annoying to me.

                          Sam and Jack

                          Sam telling Barrett she's "not exactly" single is probably as close to firm confirmation that she is with Jack that I think we ever got. I don't see how you can interpret that as her not having something going on with someone, and if it's not Jack I don't know who else it could be.

                          I also wonder, since a lot of the investigation/surveillance took place in Virginia, did Sam have time to visit with Jack?
                          Last edited by hlndncr; May 18, 2011, 07:19 PM.

                          Comment


                            So now that I'm caught up, here's the next round of eps:


                            All summaries are taken from the GateWorld episode guide.


                            by hlndncr

                            Colonel Mitchell is injured in a skirmish with a warrior from a mythic tribe of rebel Jaffa, and is trained in their fighting techniques only so that he may engage in a ritual battle to the death.


                            by hlndncr

                            SG-1 finds a genetically advanced Goa'uld-human hybrid created by Anubis, and returns him to Earth for study. But even keeping him alive may not be worth the risk.


                            by hlndncr

                            Earth is infected with a deadly Ori plague, prompting an ally from SG-1's past to come to their aide. Gerak proposes that the Free Jaffa follow the Ori religion.

                            Carter was able to sense Orlin's presence before he showed himself to her, to some degree -- possibly because of her previous "intimate" experience with him

                            Sam's report indicated that she and Orlin had an "intimate" relationship. There is no indication that she ever slept with him, as she rather insisted that she did not return his romantic feelings ("Ascension"). More likely she refers to the moment where they shared spirits in an ascended ritual.

                            Carter once again faces a seemingly unsurmountable problem threatening the people of Earth, this time in the form of the Prior plague. This time she knows that she can't solve the problem, and relies on her once ascended friend Orlin to help save them all. She certainly has personal (but not romantic) feelings for him, and is still uncomfortable with his expressions of love for her -- especially now that he is in the form of a young boy, and not a full-grown man.

                            Orlin once again gave up ascension to become mortal -- but this time not just for Samantha Carter, but to warn Earth and help save them from the deadly Prior plague. He chose to descend as a young boy in order to retain more of his Ancient knowledge, even though this meant that because of human social conventions he could not renew any kind of romantic relationship with Sam.

                            This descension to human form was probably a one-way trip for Orlin. He believes that the Ancients probably won't help him ascend again -- which may not be true, since many of them believe that what he is doing had to be done. He is also suffering brain damage and acute memory loss as tries to hold on to his Ancient knowledge.


                            by hlndncr

                            As the Ori plague spreads rapidly, SG-1 hopes that the Prior who caused the disease may hold the key to its cure. Gerak tries to rally the Jaffa to the Ori's cause, prompting Teal'c and Bra'tac to initiate a resistance.

                            Teal'c hopes to peacefully resolve the conflict with Gerak, leading him to Gerak's father's grave on the surface of Chulak. There, Gerak reveals that all he wished was to preserve the lives of all Jaffa and to ensure their salvation in ascension, but Teal'c swears to him that he will either live as a free Jaffa or die by Gerak's hand.

                            The death toll worldwide was nearly three thousand, but thanks to Gerak cleansing the S.G.C., an antibody was isolated and -- combined with Orlin's formula -- dispersed to all infected populations. Thanks to Orlin it is unlikely the Prior will be able to attack Earth the same way again. But the damage has been done to Orlin, who recalls nothing of his life as an Ancient, or as a human. The Ancients themselves will probably take measures to defend themselves from the Ori, but not before the rest of the galaxy is put at risk.

                            While off duty, Sam pays a visit to Orilin, now a young, institutionalized boy who has no recollection of her.


                            by hlndncr

                            Colonel Mitchell stands falsely accused of murder -- but he remembers committing it, thanks to technology that grafts memories into someone else's mind.

                            Comment



                              by LadyGalaxyJ

                              (From GateWorld Episode Guide)

                              Summary:

                              An unscheduled offworld activation has summoned General Landry and Dr. Lam to the control room. As the Stargate prepares to open, there is a brief, blinding flash of light and an odd noise. SG-1, dressed in their black uniforms, comes through the gate. Landry notes that they are early.

                              A briefing follows, during which a number of discrepancies come to light. Before they can be resolved, there is an offworld activation. SG-1 (in green uniforms) arrives right on schedule. Landry orders Lam to investigate. They conclude that both teams are really SG-1, but that the facts indicate that the green SG-1 is ours. (The black team, for example, believes that the Tok'ra Selmak is still alive.) Back in the conference room, Landry and the green team discuss the situation.
                              In need of more information, a series of interviews takes place. Black team Jackson is interviewed by green team Mitchell; Landry speaks with the black team Mitchell; green team Jackson takes notes in his discussion with the black team Teal'c. Meanwhile, green team Carter and black team Carter talk science as they try to sort out what caused this problem.

                              As the green team Carter briefs Landry and the rest of the green team SG-1 -- she suggests the beachhead black hole the Ori tried to create ("Beachhead") is involved in bringing another SG-1 here from a parallel universe -- there is another unscheduled offworld activation. Assembled in the control room, the green team and Landry watch as anohter SG-1 team, taking fire and dressed in blue tiger camo, rush through the gate. Landry orders all gate travel restricted.

                              While Dr. Lee discusses the situation with the green team Carter, the black team Carter joins them. As they work, more SG-1 teams arrive. Eventually, Landry takes the green team Jackson and Teal'c to a room where Dr. Janet Fraiser awaits them. They are stunned, as our universe's Fraiser was killed two years ago ("Heroes, Part 2"). She reveals that her Earth is suffering from the Ori plague. Also on this team is Martouf, who Landry takes to see the green team Carter, now working on the problem with at least 16 other Carters. As green team Carter sits talking to Martouf -- who she was forced to kill several years ago ("Divide and Conquer"), black team Carter approaches and delineates the problem and a potential solution.
                              The green SG-1 and Landry confer with Kvasir, who comes in Thor's place, about a risky plan that involves using Prometheus to close the breach in space that has diverted so many SG-1 teams. Unfortunately, all of the teams will then be stranded permanently.

                              Fraiser visits Landry to ask for more time to find a better solution. Sympathetic, Landry feels, however, that he must act first and foremost to protect his own reality.

                              Staffed only by the green and black SG-1s, the Prometheus heads off. But the black team soon launches a plot to take command of the ship by breaking into the armory. Armed with zats, they capture the green team Mitchell and take him to the bridge just as the Prometheus is in position to launch its Asgard-primed weapon to close the breach.

                              The green team is taken to a brig while the black team re-routes the Prometheus to Atlantis in the Pegasus Galaxy. Their intent is to steal the Atlantean Z.P.M. and drop off the green team on a habitable planet. As soon as Teal'c destroys the camera in the cell, the green team hatches a counterplot.
                              Green team Mitchell asks to speak with the black team Mitchell. The black team feels that the Atlantis Z.P.M. is only used to power the Stargate for one-way travel to the Pegasus Galaxy. They need the Z.P.M. to power the Ancients' Antarctic weapon, suggesting they do not fully understand the situation on Atlantis and the need for the Z.P.M. to cloak the city from the Wraith. Green team Mitchell realizes that the black team created the entire situation to come to our universe deliberately -- and that they already have a way home.

                              Once the green team Mitchell is back in the cell with the green team, Carter hotwires the door and she and Jackson set off for the engine room, while Mitchell and Teal'c head for an armory. As they try to open the armory door, the black team Jackson and black team Teal'c show up and prepare to take green team Teal'c captive once more. It's a trap: the green team Mitchell is really the black team Mitchell.

                              But before they can touch Teal'c, green team Carter and green team Jackson arrive and zat black team Jackson and Teal'c. Our SG-1 anticipated the trap from their other selves, and set one of their own. The black team is taken to a holding cell where the door cannot be hotwired; black team Mitchell is dressed only in T-shirt, underwear and boots. Green team Mitchell, similarly clad, locks the door on them.
                              Green team Carter works out a plan for returning the many SG-1s to their respective universes, and upon the return of the Prometheus to Earth orbit she requests the use of an Asgard weapon. They fire it into the open Stargate, recreating the conditions the black team used to cause the breach.

                              Starting with the black team, the teams are sent back to their realities. On the ramp, the black team Mitchell stops and enigmatically tells the green team Mitchell that, when the time comes, "Cut the green one."

                              Finally, the last team assembles. After Carter, Jackson, and Teal'c share an emotional goodbye with Martouf and Janet, Landry provides them with the cure to the Ori plaque and the team heads home to save its Earth.

                              Sam & Jack:

                              Carter was faced with an astrophysics dilemma of catastrophic proportions, and managed to solve it in fine form. She had help from some 17 different versions of herself -- though between parallel universes, android duplicates, and Replicators, it's not something entirely out of her realm of experience.
                              Sam did get a chance to see her good friend Janet Fraiser (though from a different universe)again, and learned that in another reality she has a successful love life and a child. She also had a relationship with Martouf, who left the Tok'ra and joined the S.G.C. to be close to her, though their relationship didn't last. Carter has missed Martouf, who she liked but with whom she was never able to pursue any kind of serious personal relationship. Our Sam may well be left wondering what might have been for her.
                              Our Sam nearly kissed Martouf. Is she not involved with someone, as she hinted to Agent Barrett several weeks ago ("Ex Deus Machina")?

                              If her father Jacob (Selmak) did not die in the black team's universe, did Sam marry Pete Shanahan?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                                Great analysis of the problems with the Ori as villians. Also the Goa'uld had a lot of diverse and interesting personalities and they were also very snappy dressers. The Ori were just a wall of virtual fire hanging out in the higher planes. So boring!
                                Thanks. I knew that English class on science fiction I took many, many years ago would come in handy one day . I had an elective to fill my last semester, and figured with that class, I'd at least read all the homework. LOL

                                Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                                Sam & Jack:If her father Jacob (Selmak) did not die in the black team's universe, did Sam marry Pete Shanahan?
                                ::shudder:: An AU I'd rather not see!

                                Okay, Ripple Effect. A seemingly ideal ep to bring back Jack, even if he was on only one of the other teams. But would that have been too much of a distraction for the viewers?

                                Okay, no real live Jack, but plenty of mentions of him by Janet (so good to see her. Lam never seemed authorotative enough to boss around her patients).

                                The Martouf thing - I bet he tried to put the move on all of the Sams. As for the near kiss - maybe she was thinking of it as a "free" kiss, a way to satisfy her curiosity without consequences. But then she realized that even if our Martouf was dead, she'd still be cheating on her "not exactly".

                                And as for the other Sam having a child - they didn't need to be cute and hint around. If she was married to Jack, just say so - wouldn't be the first time!

                                Hmmm - I'm trying to remember Sam's demeanor in season 9. I haven't seen many of the eps since the show ended, so I can only go on a general impression I had when they were first shown. When AT came back after her pregnancy, Sam acted differently. She spoke more softly when saying her 'regular' dialogue (when Sam wasn't required to be emotional), she seemed tired, more subdued.

                                So - was this RL spilling over into Sam, or was AT making Sam different because she was finally with Jack and thus content (and tired from all her extracurricular activty ).

                                Fourth Horseman

                                You could see how uncomfortable Sam was every time Orlin mentioned his feelings for her. Was it because he was now a child, or because she never returned those feelings? Either way, Sam seemed to feel guilty that maybe, just maybe, Orlin had made such a sacrifice only for her.

                                As for the end with Orlin in the care facility, couldn't they have asked the Asgard to heal him so he could live a normal life? What about the Nox? Wouldn't they help a fellow Fourth Racer? Of course, with the Tollan gone, there's no way for Earth to contact the Nox. And I can't remember what the Asgard were doing during this time, what with the Replicators defeated amd no System Lords to contend with. Guess they were falling onto a suicidal funk. (not at suicidal funks, but at the decision to get rid of the Asgard that way)

                                BTW, I wonder if the Nox were attacked by the Ori, since they could definately cause trouble if they so intended. The Ori wouldn't care if the Nox said they were pacifists.

                                banlu
                                sigpic
                                It failed to qualify as a cave, technically speaking, but Jack called it one anyway.
                                He'd never been one for speaking technically.

                                Jaunt to Paradise - Spiletta42

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X