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    Originally posted by Petra View Post
    It’s an interesting idea, but I don’t agree that season 8 has been about Jack being too close to SG-1. Again, I tend to write this particular incident, along with the one from New Order, as the writers having the characters behave distinctly OOC in order to further the plot. The same was done with Sam in Gemini and Affinity, with Daniel and Teal’c in Affinity, and now it’s Jack’s turn. The writers needed the Trust operatives to get away so they could return snaked in Full Alert and voila, Jack is suddenly unable to make a decision like the ones he’d been making for the prior 7+ years. It doesn’t make any sense to me. In the past he’s shot Sam, blown up Daniel, let Teal’c be tortured and now he can’t take it anymore? Yeah, right.
    You really aren't going to like my review of Gemini (working on it right now, I promise) because I think Sam acts very much in character, which is exactly what RepliCarter counts on and plays upon.

    And this is why I hate this episode so much. It’s the episode about genocide in which genocide is an afterthought, never explored, dealt with or even seriously pondered. No words can describe how much I despise it.
    Very true and an excellent point.

    If Sam was indeed a kick-ass woman in this episode it was made forgettable by that ridiculous leather outfit she wore. Another thing I hated. Have I mentioned how much I hate Coop’s pathetic attempts to sex-up the show?
    I disagree. I liked the outfit. Sam has worn outfits like that before when she's been operating on earth (see Nightwalkers), and actually think it suits her. After all, she has a sexy biker chick side; we just don't get to see it very often.

    Comment


      Petra said: Right, we all know that I have some really unpopular views, don’t we? Here’s another one. I’m sorry my fellow shippers, but I really dislike this whole melodrama with the engagement and almost-wedding. IMO the writers should have never gone down this route. I love how the ship was written in the first 6 seasons, I have some issues with season 7 but season 8 from Affinity onward is really bad.
      No need to apologize... I totally agree with you! As a matter of fact, I'm sure most shippers agree with you on that point! I thought the whole engagement was horrible, that Sam was clearly not totally committed to . Seriously, if it takes you 2 weeks to figure out if you want to marry someone, than shouldn't that be a clue? After LOST CITY, she should have dropped him like a hot potato, imo. She clearly still loved Jack, and she knew it. But the writers wanted to keep up the angst. At least that's what I think

      Comment


        Originally posted by Petra View Post
        PETE AND ENGAGEMENT

        Right, we all know that I have some really unpopular views, don’t we? Here’s another one. I’m sorry my fellow shippers, but I really dislike this whole melodrama with the engagement and almost-wedding. IMO the writers should have never gone down this route. I love how the ship was written in the first 6 seasons, I have some issues with season 7 but season 8 from Affinity onward is really bad.

        Firstly, although the situation gave us Sam’s tirade about what is expected of modern women which I do love and which is one of the very few redeeming things about the ep, IMO engagement/wedding doesn’t really belong in the show like SG-1. At least not in this form. Guys all have been married and it was never a big issue like it was written as for Sam. So I feel that the arch did her disservice as a character because, like hlndncr, I have no idea why Sam said yes. It doesn’t make sense either in the context of the episode which is all about her doubts or in context of her character. Sam may be a little clueless, or inexperienced, or in denial, or however you want to look at it – but she’s neither cruel nor stupid. She wouldn’t sacrifice her professional standing for a guy (kissing on the job) and she wouldn’t commit herself to a guy if she wasn’t sure she loved him – and we clearly see that she isn’t sure.
        While I didn't mind Sam getting engaged and almost marrying Pete, I do agree that the execution of the storyline was poorly done. Though I tend to think that at the time of Affinity Sam was sure that she loved Pete, but that she came to doubt those feelings by Threads.

        re the bolded, what annoys me most about that scene was that AT strongly objected to how it was done, that Sam wouldn't have said yes while on the job, but got overruled by RCC.

        From the SG-1 Illustrated Companion to Season 7-8:
        Ever the perfectionist, Amanda Tapping feels the big scene where Carter and Pete decide to fully commit to their relationship could have benefitted from a bit more realism on Carter's side. "To this day, when I watch the episode I go, 'Tsk , Carter wouldn't have done that. She wouldn't have done it there, and she wouldn't have done what she did in that situation.' I mean, when Carter says 'Yes to Pete's proposal, she does it at the end of a mission and a stakeout, and it's dumb. She wouldn't do that then because it's totally inappropriate, and I was angry at the way it was handled. For Carter, it would have been a private moment. It was something she would have dealt with outside of the realms of work, because no matter how much she feels for this guy, and no matter how much it's opened her up, work is work, and her work will always be the most important thing to her. She's been absolutely open about that from the word go. So it bothered me that it was like, 'Oh well, this is how we'll fit it into the script.' I had a long talk with our executive producer Robert Cooper, and see the wisdom of what he was saying, but when the audience watches the show and sees the ending I want them to understand that I, Amanda Tapping, thought it was inappropriate."

        Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
        You really aren't going to like my review of Gemini (working on it right now, I promise) because I think Sam acts very much in character, which is exactly what RepliCarter counts on and plays upon.
        I tend to think Sam was in character for the most part in Gemini as well, though I think Jack and Teal'c had to act a little OOC in order let the events play out fully.

        I disagree. I liked the outfit. Sam has worn outfits like that before when she's been operating on earth (see Nightwalkers), and actually think it suits her. After all, she has a sexy biker chick side; we just don't get to see it very often.
        I agree with Petra here. I don't object to the style of Sam's outfit, but while Nightwalkers was a fact-finding mission out in the public, this op was more stealth and surveillance and not particularly suitable for such a flashy jacket IMHO.

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          Originally posted by Lucycat View Post
          No need to apologize... I totally agree with you! As a matter of fact, I'm sure most shippers agree with you on that point! I thought the whole engagement was horrible, that Sam was clearly not totally committed to . Seriously, if it takes you 2 weeks to figure out if you want to marry someone, than shouldn't that be a clue? After LOST CITY, she should have dropped him like a hot potato, imo. She clearly still loved Jack, and she knew it. But the writers wanted to keep up the angst. At least that's what I think
          the bolded: yep!!

          sam's mind in 'grace' was questioning jack's feelings for her, and her own for him too. 'lost city' showed sam (and us) that she'd figured it out, that she truly did love him.

          whether she figured out jack's feelings for her or not, sam's questioning of her feelings for jack was resolved.
          sally

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            Awesome Banner by Josiane

            Summary
            (from Stargate Wiki)

            There is an unscheduled offworld activation and Carter’s old IDC comes through. A text message follows: "Send M.A.L.P." The M.A.L.P. telemetry shows that the person sending the transmission is Carter. But Sam is in the control room at Stargate Command.

            The Carter on the other side explains that she was made in Samantha Carter's image. She is a Replicator, created by Fifth, the Replicator leader smitten with Carter. Struggling to reconcile the original Carter's copied feelings and her own Replicator programming, RepliCarter asks that she be destroyed via the disruptor—the only weapon effective against her kind.

            Sam convinces O'Neill to allow a meeting between her and her Replicator twin on the Alpha site. As Teal'c trains the disruptor on the Replicator, she tells Sam that Fifth is coming to this galaxy to conquer it. Because RepliCarter claims to share Sam's feelings, she doesn't want Fifth to succeed. Sam tells her Replicator double that the Asgard have amplified the disruptor effects to repel a large-scale attack. But RepliCarter says that the Replicators, herself excluded, are now invulnerable to the disruptor. RepliCarter tells Sam and Teal'c that Fifth was able to introduce a cipher into the Kiron pathways that control the molecular cohesion of all Replicators. This is how he was able to counter the effects of the disruptor.

            After Sam supposedly experiences some of RepliCarter’s memories of being trained by Fifth to hate and kill her friends, Sam begins to feel sympathy for her doppelganger. She asks RepliCarter to help them find a way to modify the disruptor to defeat Fifth. Meanwhile, RepliCarter is secretly communicating with Fifth through subspace, telling him that the humans are beginning to trust her, but she needs more time. Sam is also trying to buy time from O’Neill to gain more intelligence from the Replicator, which he reluctantly gives her.

            Sam asks RepliCarter to access the cipher through the Replicator subspace link so they can use it to modify the disruptor. She again communicates secretly with Fifth, telling him that she's almost done with her mission; Fifth never had a cipher to protect the Replicators from the disruptor. In fact, RepliCarter has been analyzing the disruptor to create one. She tells him it will be ready when he arrives.

            RepliCarter informs Sam that Fifth is on his way and will arrive in two hours. O'Neill, hearing the news, gives Sam one hour to finish remodulating the disruptor. After that, RepliCarter must be destroyed and the base evacuated. O’Neill is beginning to sense that Sam has become too personally involved and shares his concerns with Teal’c who reassures him that he and Sam will do what needs to be done.

            In the meantime, Thor has sent a disruptor satellite to the Alpha site, which Teal'c places into orbit using an F-302. RepliCarter claims to have found the cipher and created a program to remodulate the disruptor beam—but Fifth has already arrived.

            When RepliCarter activates the unmodified satellite, destroying Fifth and his ship, Sam realizes too late that this was a all ruse a by RepliCarter to study the disruptor, make herself immune to it, and betray and destroy Fifth. She takes Sam into her mind and tells her that she plans to take control of the Replicators and rule the galaxy.

            Teal'c tries to destroy RepliCarter with the disruptor, but to no avail. She battles her way through to the Stargate. Teal'c grabs hold of her arm, but she leaves it behind and it crumbles to dust in Teal'c's grasp.

            Back at the SGC Sam, blaming herself for becoming too personally involved with her twin, is intent on analyzing the now inert Replicator cells hoping to find a way to beat the now completely invulnerable Replicator race.

            Favorite Scene
            So hard to choose!

            I think I would have to go with the scene at the end when Sam finally sees RepliCarter for what she truly is and realizes what she has done.

            Favorite Lines
            (Can’t resist.)

            REPLI My name is Samantha Carter.

            Alright, we've got a little conflict with that statement. We've already got one here.

            REPLI There are two of us.

            If only.

            *looks at Jack*

            *clears throat*

            Generally

            The things I love about this episode are what make it so hard to review. It is very nuanced and layered and there are so many different interpretations you can find in each and every character and interaction. So I will try and hit the highlights and explain some of my ideas, and then hopefully everyone else will come to the table with other ideas and insights.

            My major criticism of this season as a whole is that we have yet to see SG1, as a team, actually go through the gate on a mission. While this episode doesn’t rectify this shortcoming, it does have some of that classic SG1 feel. We are off-world, even if it is an Alpha site that looks an awful lot like the SGC. Sam is clearly in charge, if not as in control as she believes herself to be. Through our ignorance and overconfidence we kick over a hornet’s nest and leave earth vulnerable to a seemingly unstoppable enemy. And finally, there is some really great character interaction.

            RepliCarter (RC) and Sam

            Sam as an evil and invincible genius intent on taking over the galaxy; what a great character! I only regret that we didn’t see her more and we never got a final face to face showdown between her and Sam. (But I digress into Threads; so more on that later. )

            First, I have to take a fangirl moment to just say that AT is freakin’ amazing. She carried most of this episode. Enormous amounts of dialog; two complex and emotional character arcs; and all the special effects work. And somehow she made it all look so easy. She played RC with such subtlety, giving her both a vulnerability and a coldness that kept you guessing as her true motivations. Even now I’m torn as to whether RC was actually conflicted on some level over the feelings and memories she shared in common with Sam (especially for Jack) or whether she merely tapped into and manipulated those feelings and was completely unaffected by them.

            Just as an example of how brilliant AT’s performance was look at RC’s interactions with Teal’c. He is the one that I think was least fooled by her and she realizes that he is the most dangerous to her plans. When she first comes through the gate she tries to gain his sympathy. She’s softer and more vulnerable. When Teal’c makes it clear that he doesn’t see her as he does Sam her demeanor changes. She straightens a little, becomes slightly colder and more wary, like she is no longer trying to play him just stay off his radar long enough to get Sam to trust her.

            From the very beginning RC plays upon Sam’s own experiences and emotions. It is something like watching someone play a chess game with herself. But RC knows her objective and has calculated her moves. Whereas, Sam doesn’t seem to understand that it is a game or what the stakes really are. She thinks she is dealing with herself and RC encourages this falsehood, saying such things as, “You know me as well as I know you.” I wonder too if some of Sam’s approach to this double is based on her previous experiences with other versions of herself who have been benign and proved to be productive partnerships (Dr. Carter from POV and the robot Carter).

            Sam tells Jack and Teal’c that she’s prepared to complete the mission and destroy RC, but she acts as if she really intends to try and save her. I think too, we see some remnants of Sam’s torture at the hands of Fifth. Her own experience is what leads her to believe RC fears Fifth. She tells RC that she understands what it was like. And Sam says that she can’t see what RC would gain by bluffing. Really Sam?

            When RC realizes she’s immune to the disruptor her true character comes through. She always believed she had the upper hand, but now she has nothing to fear. When RC confronts Sam in the end, it is fear and denial that she decries as Sam’s true weaknesses, and she is gloating that she has essentially freed herself from the restrictions Sam lives under. While she tells Fifth that he made her what she is just before she destroys him, she tells Sam that she is what she is because of Sam. I’m not sure how to take that. Fifth did try to mold and shape her—if RC was telling the truth, which is impossible to know—but she does have at least some of Sam’s memories and thought patterns. Sam tells RC that she is what Fifth made her and rejects that RC is what Sam could or would ever want to be. But it does seem that some of RC’s criticism that Sam was less than she could or should be struck a nerve when she later tells Jack that RC learned from Fifth what he learned from her.

            Comment


              Gemini Continued

              Sam and Jack

              For me, the ship underlies this entire episode. I think it colors the motivations and interactions of all the characters; so I consider the whole of it to be shippy.

              So we begin with Sam telling Daniel that Jack will only let them go to Atlantis over his dead body. It is interesting that Sam is talking about the whole team, but Daniel thinks it’s only about her. You have to sympathize with Jack because these little jaunts on Prometheus never go well for the team, together or separately. And he does later send Sam off to command Atlantis, but the situation is obviously very different then.

              The control room scene is great, IMHO. First you have Jack invading Sam’s personal space, which doesn’t faze her a bit, their comfort level with one another is clear. Then when RC shows up and says there are two Sam Carters and Jack says “If Only” maybe there is a non-shippy explanation (two brilliant scientists like Sam would be a valuable asset) but really he looks like he really intend to blurt that out and shows some definite discomfort at being caught out. And later in the briefing room he seems a bit chagrined when Sam describes Fifth’s actions (especially of making a copy of her) as being the result of his adolescence. Maybe a little backwards jab at Jack’s earlier comment? (And Jack does seem rather annoyed if somewhat resigned to the fact that all the men in the universe seem to fall in love with Sam.)

              From the very beginning RC plays on both Sam’s and Jack’s emotions and uses their relationship to achieve her goals. While Fifth didn’t understand Sam’s complex relationship with Jack, RC has the benefit of Sam’s thought patterns and memories. She also has an additional advantage over Sam that she is removed from Sam’s actual experience. I think this detachment allows her to see more clearly just where things stand between her and Jack and gives her the ability to more effectively manipulate them.

              She starts by telling Jack that she can feel a lot of things—the things Sam feels. She also suggests that killing her should be easy for Jack. I think both of those statements surprise him and give him a little pause. He has killed Sam before and it was anything but easy. I don’t think Jack is taken in, because just a short time later he casually says they should give her what she wants and seems determined to terminate her despite Sam’s continued arguments.

              But if RC fails to manipulate Jack directly, she succeeds in doing so through Sam. Jack is so whooped (even now with Sam engaged to ) and RC knows he rarely says no to her. Now I’m not saying Sam hasn’t earned that trust, but even when Jack shows some serious reservations about Sam’s objectivity he still let’s her continue (and even calls Thor for the satellite before she asks).

              When Jack questions Teal’c about whether Sam has let her feelings affect her judgment I think he gives an interesting answer. He tells Jack that she has developed sympathies for RC but he believes her feelings won’t interfere with the commission of her duty. Jack can’t really say anything against that because he and Sam have been operating on that premise for years.

              But in a way Sam has already let herself be compromised, because she allowed RC into her mind. Sam tells Teal’c that they weren’t in her mind, but I just don’t believe that. RC puts her hand in Sam’s head. This is how the Replicators invade people’s minds. On the other hand when Fifth took Sam into his mind in Unnatural Selection, and when RC took Sam away in the end to chat neither put a hand in her head. So I believe the scene with Sam shooting up the gateroom and killing Jack was a manipulation by RC to play upon Sam’s suppressed feelings for Jack. (On the commentary director Will Waring states, “She can’t just shoot Jack because she loves him.”)

              It’s possible that something like that scene may have happened. The most convincing lies have a good dose of truth. Perhaps this is part of why RC came to hate Fifth, but it also what she came to see as a weakness in herself, or in Sam.

              Then there’s that last scene. For me it recalls the scene in Small Victories when Sam is examining the Replicator blocks and Jack comes in and tries to get her to change her mind and go fishing with him. Sometimes I miss those happier and less complicated days.

              Comment


                Great review hlndncr!

                I have a busy weekend, will try to post comments for Gemeni soon!

                Comment


                  An invitation for an upcoming forum event!


                  Hope to see you there!

                  Comment


                    Thanks for the Gemini review.

                    I too find the obvious issues they all have over a second Carter really interesting. It does show that they all are way too close and it almost makes you wonder that if they weren't on a TV show would they still be kept in such close proximity. Sometimes it is hazerdous to their health.

                    I also agree with you that the Replicator sees Sam's feelings for Jack as her main weakness and if Sam let go it would allow her to be more powerful. Have to say I agree with that, although I would always want Sam to have feelings for Jack - that's why I'm a shipper!!!!!!!

                    Does make for an interesting episode and then with Daniel later on, a bit different to anything they had done before.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Catygirl View Post
                      Thanks for the Gemini review.

                      I too find the obvious issues they all have over a second Carter really interesting. It does show that they all are way too close and it almost makes you wonder that if they weren't on a TV show would they still be kept in such close proximity. Sometimes it is hazerdous to their health.

                      I also agree with you that the Replicator sees Sam's feelings for Jack as her main weakness and if Sam let go it would allow her to be more powerful. Have to say I agree with that, although I would always want Sam to have feelings for Jack - that's why I'm a shipper!!!!!!!

                      Does make for an interesting episode and then with Daniel later on, a bit different to anything they had done before.
                      I don't think I said that Sam's feelings for Jack were her weakness, but if I did say that I didn't mean it. I think Sam's fears about her feelings hold her back. Once RepliCarter makes herself immune to the weapon she no longer has any fear, and she doesn't see herself bound by duty, rules, or expectations. Of course, then she decides to take over the universe; whereas, I think Sam would simply choose to be happy (with Jack obviously ).

                      Comment


                        Still trying to catch up with everything from being away this weekend (AT5 was AMAZING!!!), but don't want the rewatch to get behind, so here's your next dose...


                        Banner by Kitten

                        Synopsis
                        Prometheus is going to head off and find out what happened to the Atlantis expedition. Daniel really wants to go, Jack doesn't want him to go, but Hammond shows up and overrules him and whisks Daniel and Walter off on the ride of a lifetime. They answer a distress call (never a wise move) and get their ship stolen by a supersoldier that turns out to be Vala. She keeps Daniel on board and the two of them have a lot of fun winding each other up before Hammond and the rest catch up to them. Plus there's some weird aliens with pigtails (hey, maybe that's where Vala got the idea? ) and ABSOLUTELY NO SAM OR TEAL'C WHATSOEVER.

                        Analysis
                        Considering that a significant proportion of the write-up volunteers were adamant that this was absolutely the one episode they really most did not want to do, I'm not expecting either this write-up or the ensuing discussion to be particularly long or enthusiastic. I gave it to myself mostly because I couldn't inflict it on anyone else and it's my penance for getting Zero Hour and Threads...

                        Having said that, I do recall that the first time I saw this episode I quite enjoyed it. I should say at the outset that Daniel is my least favourite member of SG1 (the classic team, anyway!), and I'm not really a fan of Vala either, but in this episode their interaction works well and I like seeing Daniel so completely thrown off his balance. I can see why the powers that be decided to bring Vala back as a regular character, as Daniel did need someone to spar with after Jack left, and that aspect of her character I do enjoy. However, in my opinion, she works much better here as a one-off than she did as a regular member of the team (although I'm not going to go into my issues with her in that respect here). Suffice it to say though, she's much more interesting here as an unpredictable, manipulative, totally out for herself wild-card, than she is as the silly!Vala of later.

                        Vala is also good for the glimpse she shows us of what else is out there in the galaxy and what can happen after the Goa'uld are forced out of town - foreshadowing here of things like the Lucian Alliance and the upheaval that the Ori exploited (I will also say at this point that my attitude to seasons 9 and 10 is basically grudging acceptance...). As a concept, this is great, expanding our view of the galaxy to more than just the Goa'uld and the societies they oppress, and also harks back a bit to some of the really early episodes where exploration was more to the forefront and we saw all sorts of worlds and societies. Over time, as the main story arcs became more important, we lost a little of this, but it is still only hints here.

                        This is the second Daniel-centric episode in not very long, after Icon, but here he is far more out of his depth and so we see a different side to him - he has to think on his feet to try and outsmart Vala and I do like seeing how Daniel copes with it. To be honest, I think a lot of how he deals with Vala is rather Jack-like, so maybe another example here of how influential Jack has been over his team.

                        OK, so that's the stuff I liked, now for the problems... because boy is this episode full of them. The first couple of scenes are so jammed full of exposition and long-winded explanations for how they're going to get Daniel onto the Prometheus without the rest of his team, and for why they picked Hammond and Walter of all other characters to have stewarding the B plot. It just feels clunky. And really, Hammond and Walter? That just makes no sense. I mean, it's fabulous to see Hammond again, but despite the very very long and detailed explanation as to why he is leading this expedition, it just doesn't add up to me. There's just no way he would either allow himself or be allowed to head off into the unknown, with next to no offworld experience. I don't know, it just felt like the producers were giving him a last hurrah as the action hero he never was. Walter, likewise, has many excellent qualities, but since when has he been able to fly or troubleshoot an alkesh?! He's a gate technician, FCOL! To be honest, it just comes across that they were giving Sam and Teal'c an episode off, but thought we still needed some familiar faces to anchor the B plot.

                        Overall, this is a slightly odd episode, I feel. It was clearly intended to keep the Atlantis storyline alive (and presumably, hoped to poke some SG1 viewers who might not have been watching SGA to tune in and find out for themselves what had happened to the expedition - kind of like an enormous hint), but ends up feeling rather pointless.

                        Sam/Jack
                        Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Oh well.

                        As you were...
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                        Comment


                          Thanks for taking one for the team Josi.

                          Great job and I completely agree. (I'll just leave it at that for now because I have sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many complaints about the whole D/V thing later on. )

                          Comment


                            Great review! And as I am one of those people who like Daniel and Vala and am able to completely take episodes like this as mindless fun, I will admit that I have always loved this episode.

                            Except for the BLOJAS, (my snazzy acronym for Blaring Lack Of Jack And Sam), this is probably one of my favorite episodes!
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                              Oh, here I am delurking so say that I absolutely love Prometheus Unbound and Daniel/Vala.

                              This episode is such a great stand alone episode (at least for me since I don't watch Atlantis) and I think it represents the basis of the D/V relationship.

                              I also really loved seeing Hammond and Walter in a different setting, I found the whole B plot very entertaining.
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                              Sig by Everlovin My YT|My other vid site|My LJ|My Photobucket|My ImageShack|"Stargate is life, Sam and Jack are happiness, Shippers are almighty" by hlndncr

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                                Spoiler:
                                Originally posted by Petra View Post
                                Hi guys! Sorry I’ve been MIA, but RL has been crazy! I’ve just moved into a new apartment and I’m still settling in, so I don’t have much free time. Therefore forgive me if I play a quick catch-up and go back to old episodes and discussions for a moment.



                                It seems out brain-sharing is experiencing temporary malfunction.

                                I can’t agree with this assessment. I never saw Jack as putting Sam on any kind of pedestal, just like I didn’t see her do the same for him post-CotG. I know that the notion of Jack seeing himself unworthy of Sam is very popular among shippers, but honestly, I’m a little baffled by this and I must side with Evenstar on this one.

                                The reason why I ship those two is because IMO they have real, deep feelings for each other. I don’t see how would it be possible for Jack to truly love Sam if he saw her as unattainable “national treasure” , some goddess to be worshipped from afar, and not as a real woman. Honestly, Sam is such a rich, well-rounded character that how someone can not see her as a regular – albeit incredibly intelligent and gifted – person is beyond me.



                                Exactly. Jack knows that science-wise he’s not in the same league as Sam and Daniel but let’s be honest: who else is? And he’s a very smart fella in his own way. I agree with Evenstar that I just can’t see him lacking confidence or having a low self-esteem. If that was the case, wouldn’t he be a poor commander, constantly second-guessing himself and pondering “what ifs”? The way I see it, Jack is, in his own way, just as smart and intelligent as his teammates, knows it, and is secure in that knowledge enough to be able to play ignorant fool for his own amusement and usage. I don’t see him intimidated by Sam’s intellect, but being drawn to it and embracing it.



                                Ah, see, I’m not so sure that they aren’t married. I mean yes, Drey’ouc apparently divorced Teal’c and married his friend, but the guy died and at the end of the episode she and Teal’c seemed to have reconciled. In the following years he was referenced to visit his “family” – not just his son.

                                Personally I tend to think that Teal’c was very much in the ”committed relationships” at the very least with both Drey’ouc and Ishta, but that the notion of fidelity isn’t very popular or held in high regard in the Jaffa society.



                                At least you are not alone I too am a fan of the Jaffa episodes and share your disappointment in regards to their treatment in the last 2 seasons.



                                If you are remembering wrong then I am too, because I heard the exact same thing.



                                Ditto. Quoted for truth.



                                And again, I agree. I must add though that I can see how somebody could interpret that line as jealousy, because it is odd and not something Jack would say, IMO. Personally I tend to write it off as being slightly OoC and ignore it.

                                PETE AND ENGAGEMENT

                                Right, we all know that I have some really unpopular views, don’t we? Here’s another one. I’m sorry my fellow shippers, but I really dislike this whole melodrama with the engagement and almost-wedding. IMO the writers should have never gone down this route. I love how the ship was written in the first 6 seasons, I have some issues with season 7 but season 8 from Affinity onward is really bad.

                                Firstly, although the situation gave us Sam’s tirade about what is expected of modern women which I do love and which is one of the very few redeeming things about the ep, IMO engagement/wedding doesn’t really belong in the show like SG-1. At least not in this form. Guys all have been married and it was never a big issue like it was written as for Sam. So I feel that the arch did her disservice as a character because, like hlndncr, I have no idea why Sam said yes. It doesn’t make sense either in the context of the episode which is all about her doubts or in context of her character. Sam may be a little clueless, or inexperienced, or in denial, or however you want to look at it – but she’s neither cruel nor stupid. She wouldn’t sacrifice her professional standing for a guy (kissing on the job) and she wouldn’t commit herself to a guy if she wasn’t sure she loved him – and we clearly see that she isn’t sure.

                                From this point on both ships (S/P and S/J) are written badly because, as someone noted, the whole issue is swept under the carpet up until Threads, despite numerous occasions to subtly continue this arch, and in Threads it also isn’t handled very well, IMO (but we’ll get to that).

                                Pete’s behavior is never addressed, which is a sore point for me.

                                Now don’t get me wrong, I’m in the camp that was happy that Sam got to date someone who wasn’t Jack. I think her character needed it. I think the S/J ship needed it. I think both Sam and Jack had to try with someone else to really realize the truth about their bond and to make sure they weren’t simply settling for each other. And however badly it was written, I think San’s relationship with Pete accomplished that. It’s just that I happen to think that the whole engagement thing was totally unnecessary, because the goal had been reached even before Affinity, and this thing only made everything murkier and showed all the characters – Sam, Pete, Jack and even Daniel and Teal’c (why didn’t they intervene?) – in bad light.

                                ENDGAME

                                Oy, I hate this episode with passion. IMO it’s not as bad as PU, but it’s worse than Chimera, and that’s no small achievement.



                                It’s an interesting idea, but I don’t agree that season 8 has been about Jack being too close to SG-1. Again, I tend to write this particular incident, along with the one from New Order, as the writers having the characters behave distinctly OOC in order to further the plot. The same was done with Sam in Gemini and Affinity, with Daniel and Teal’c in Affinity, and now it’s Jack’s turn. The writers needed the Trust operatives to get away so they could return snaked in Full Alert and voila, Jack is suddenly unable to make a decision like the ones he’d been making for the prior 7+ years. It doesn’t make any sense to me. In the past he’s shot Sam, blown up Daniel, let Teal’c be tortured and now he can’t take it anymore? Yeah, right.



                                And this is why I hate this episode so much. It’s the episode about genocide in which genocide is an afterthought, never explored, dealt with or even seriously pondered. No words can describe how much I despise it.



                                Just a quick question: how would shooting at the ship blow up Stargate? Nothing of the sort happened when SG-1 blew up Apophis’ ha’taks in the season 2 premiere and that explosion was much bigger. Heck, meteor hitting Stargate didn’t cause its explosion…



                                If Sam was indeed a kick-ass woman in this episode it was made forgettable by that ridiculous leather outfit she wore. Another thing I hated. Have I mentioned how much I hate Coop’s pathetic attempts to sex-up the show?


                                I agree for the most part.
                                And I hate a good bit of season 8 and love some of it.
                                Last edited by Zoser; 15 February 2011, 09:30 AM.
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