Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by Lucycat View Post
    Covenant is the next in long line of Earth-based episodes, but with an concept Stargate hasn't really explored before. What would happen if the Stargate became public? After 7 years of top-secret missions through the Stargate... and about 2 years since Earth has had space-worthy ships, an outside source has uncovered proof that the government is covering up the existance of aliens.

    <snip>

    COMMENTS
    While this episode had an interesting premise, and I like Charles Shaughnessy, I was bored by it. I'm personally not a fan of most of the Earth based shows that deal with NID and the Trust. I thought it was a waste of a Carter episode. I would have much preferred to see her go off-world and lead SG-1, rather than try to sway the beliefs of an old colleague. What happened to SG-1's primary mission? Wasn't it to go through the Stargate and explore new planets, forge new alliances, acquire new technologies?
    I have to agree with you on this. I sort of like the idea of the episode but, especially in the wake of so many earth based stories, this one just kind of drags for me. I also really don't like Sam's actions or attitudes (more on that below), and would definitely have preferred to see her going off world exploring with her team.

    In Colson, we see a different type of antagonist. He's not a fanatic or religious zealot... he's a respected, intelligent businessman who believes in people's right to know the truth. He's a sympathetic character, and someone we (as the audience) would believe in and maybe even agree with. So how to answer the question... does the public have the right to know about the Stargate? Or will it cause mass-panic? Is it better that the world is ignorant of an enemy far greater than anything seen here on Earth?
    I think if I'm supposed to sympathize with Colson, the writers did a very poor job. The whole situation reminds me a little of what's going on right now with Julian Asange and the Wikileaks stuff. We have a very open system, but there are still secrets for good reasons. And no one citizen gets to make that decision for everyone. That's why we empower our governments to make those choices and then we hold them accountable for the consequences. With the destruction of the carriar group in Lost City there are surely political reprercussions that will make it back to the general populace. Maybe not with all the answers and every detail, but enough to know whether the leaders can be trusted or if change should happen.

    Colson tries to potray himself as the hero, fighting for the good of the little guy but he just goes off as a spoiled rich brat who thinks he knows better than anyone else and has the right to make decisions for the entire world. In the end, I think that makes him just as self-agrandizing and vigilante and the Trust. He may not have intentionally set out to harm anyone, but as his best friend pointed out, he didn't seem to care much who got in the way or sufferred as long as he succeeded in his agenda "for the greater good." He even essentially pushes his best friend to suicide because he's convinced his friend needs to do the right thing in the world according to Alex Colson.

    He has one line that I think really sums up his character: "I really thought that I could do it better than anyone else."

    And his final line to Sam that "no one will ever know" about the difference he's going to make working off-world just shows that it was really all about him all along.

    After the reveal of the alien clone, one of my first thoughts were, why the heck did they give alien DNA to an outside source? Is the Air Force that strapped that they have to send research to an outside agency instead of keeping it in-house? I can understand having Colson Industries help with aviation and 302 engines but alien DNA? Even with a blind study, I'd think it'd be too risky. And see what happened, they grew their own Asgard. (Wouldn't that be cool... grow your own alien clone, in just 3 months!)
    I agree. What a stupid way to keep an important secret?!!!!

    Also, Sam seems to contradict herself. When she is having the conversation with Colson in the F-302, she makes the comment, "Yeah, I don't buy it either" when he makes the cancer analogy. Here is sounds like she agrees with Colson that the world SHOULD be told. But, in the next scene she adamantly tries to convince Colson that the world is not ready, and knowledge of alien life should stay a secret.

    Though, it is nice seeing Sam flying the plane, she's usually in the co-pilot chair
    I really don't like the way Sam is portrayed in this episode. I think she acts far too sympathetic toward Colson. It makes me wonder just how close they are and if Jack was right to question her association.

    I don't like the way she was acting like it was the most horrible thing in the world that she has to discredit Colson. At least, she recognized that is was a legal order and she did follow it.

    I think some of her contradictory feelings are fallout from the whole thing with . He's never let her feel comfortable with the fact that she can't talk about her work and I think he's created a sense of guilt in her that shouldn't exist. One more reason I think her relationship with is a bad thing.

    But she seems to go out of her way to defend and help Colson even though he treats her with nothing but disrespect. I don't think she should have taken him to the Alpha site the first time around and I think he should have been left twisting in the wind when the whole financial scandel broke. I don't believe for a second that he was truly humbled or that he wouldn't become one ginormous pain in the mikta once he got over the shock of losing control, which is what her really doesn't like.

    Sam seems to be making a lot of pretty poor decisions and character judgments throughout this season (more to come in Gemini).

    [qote]And, it also seems everyone has a "source" that can give them Lieutenant Colonel Samatha Carter's cell-phone number. Who is this mysterious source, is his last name Shanahan?? [/quote]

    That makes so much sense!

    JACK & SAM
    O'neill wasn't in it much, but he did look nice in his dress uniform. There was no shippy moments, that I could see. However, it did sound like Jack was jealous about Sam's past working relationship with Colson when he said the line, "We all know who he is... some of us better than others," After he said this, Carter jumped up rather quickly and said "We worked together briefly!" as if defending herself.
    Yes. Jack. Uniform. YUMMY!

    I wonder to if maybe some of Jack's snippiness is because he's still processing the whole engagement to . That's still gotta be smarting. And now Sam's back to defending another yahoo that is dangerous to the program and getting him access to classified information he really shouldn't have. In that context, Jack's reaction makes a whole lot of sense to me.

    Comment


      hlndncr: Thanks for your responses! I was wondering if anyone was going to comment

      And I am in agreement. I think they were trying to make Colson sympathetic, but I agree that he came off as self righteous rather than heroic.

      I really don't like the way Sam is portrayed in this episode. I think she acts far too sympathetic toward Colson. It makes me wonder just how close they are and if Jack was right to question her association.
      Apparently, according to the commentary with Amanda and Martin Wood, there was a past long-term working relationship... supposedly Carter worked with him developing the 302s. There was a scene that was cut out that had O'neill talking to Carter about it.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Lucycat View Post
        Apparently, according to the commentary with Amanda and Martin Wood, there was a past long-term working relationship... supposedly Carter worked with him developing the 302s. There was a scene that was cut out that had O'neill talking to Carter about it.
        See this is why I'm going through and actually listening to the commentary this time. You learn something new. Although, I always thought it would be interesting if she knew and worked with him before going to the SGC. (I have a fic in mind, but at the rate I'm writing these days I may never get to it.)

        Comment


          I've never really had a problem with Covenant before, but I do agree that the plot does seem a bit forced - we're telling a civilian that's causing trouble so we have to take him to the alpha site etc.
          And that Colson didn't come across as well as they perhaps hoped He was supposed to be an adversary who wasn't completely evil - unlike the Trust or Goa'uld - and probably why Sam was written so sympathetic, but as you say it didn't quite hit completely

          I do like the continuity with past guest stars


          I think hlndncr makes a good point, it comes as an Earth episode after a whole list of Earth episodes. I too would rather have seen an Offworld Sam-in-Charge ep
          sigpicMy Fanfic

          Comment


            I have a HUGE problem with Covenant in that I work for a company that has a lot of government contracts. The U.S. has all sorts of laws about revealing information you learn through the gov't. By doing what he did, Alec (Alex?) doomed his company, with or without questionable financial dealings--plus set himself up for criminal charges.

            It's strange in that a lot of the episodes have twists to them that require me to forget what I know about the real world (the AF building an airplane? I mean, get real), but this is the one that really crashes the entire episode and makes it totally unwatchable for me.

            Seaboe
            If you're going to allow yourself to be offended by a cat, you might as well just pack it in -- Steven Brust

            Comment




              Review for “Sacrifices”


              Upon watching this episode preparatory for this review, several things struck me as significant. I like this episode—I always have. But watching it in “review mode” brought me to scrutinize it in a way I have never done before.

              Summary:

              The story is simple. Teal’c comes through the ‘Gate, accompanied by Bra’tac. Teal’c is grousing about having been betrayed. As Teal’c stalks churlishly away, Bra’tac informs Jack that Rya’c has become engaged to marry one of the Hak’tyl warrior women.

              Later, over a game of ping-pong, Jack attempts to offer advice to Teal’c, which Teal’c refuses to accept. Their game is interrupted by an “incoming wormhole” alert, and they race off to the ‘Gateroom to find that Ishta has arrived with a contingent of her followers. In the boardroom, they explain that their hiding place has been compromised, and that the village and its occupants are thusly in grave danger. She asks for, and is granted, a promise of help. O’Neill is then “inspired” to offer them temporary shelter within the SGC.

              When the Hak’tyl arrive, Sam and Daniel greet them and are surprised when, upon meeting Rya’c and Kar’yn (his fiancée) to discover that they plan on holding their ceremony on the previously appointed day.

              Teal’c and Ishta argue about the marriage. Ishta intimates that Teal’c doesn’t approve because he doesn’t think that Kar’yn is worthy of Rya’c and therefore he doesn’t see Ishta, her trainer, as worthy either. Teal’c insists that he believes Rya’c to be too young to marry, and that is his main concern. He also insists that taking out one Goa’uld at a time ultimately accomplishes nothing more than creating a place for a more powerful one to come in and take over, but Ishta is unwilling to listen. Her entire focus is on killing Moloc.

              Meanwhile, Carter has found a planet for the Hak’tyl, but it will take about a week to make it livable, so in the meantime, preparations for the wedding continue to go forward. Bra’tac is to officiate in the ceremony, and they have a rehearsal, during which Kar’yn takes offense at a specific traditional action. The two lovebirds argue, and the wedding seems to be off.

              Ishta receives a communication from her people within Moloc’s forces, asking for a summit. Teal’c offers to accompany her to the planet for the meeting, and Ishta reluctantly agrees. During the meeting, Teal’c attempts to caution the leaders of the rebellion to have patience until all the Goa’uld can be killed at once, but they, like Ishta, were unwilling to listen. The tent in which they are meeting is suddenly inundated with weapons fire from outside, and all the congregants are killed or captured except for Teal’c, Ishta, and Aron, another Jaffa.

              They emerge from hiding to spy on Moloc’s encampment, where the survivors are being tortured. They move off from the site in order to regroup and form a plan, and Teal’c and Ishta question whether Aron is the spy. They then discuss the fact that neither of them have their tretonin.

              Teal’c volunteers for first watch. In the morning, however, he wakes to find that Ishta is gone. He then heads towards the enemy camp to see her being dragged into Moloc’s tent. Suspicious that Aron is working against him, Teal’c zats him and then takes his weapon.

              A radio communication informs the SGC of the problem, and they rush to aid Teal’c. They send a UAV laden with tretonin for him, which is subsequently shot out of the sky by Moloc’s forces. As he races towards the crash site, he is tailed by an enemy patrol, which captures him. Aron, however, approaches from the rear, manages to overcome some of the enemy Jaffa, and helps to free Teal’c from their grasp. He then formulates a plan over the radio with the SGC.

              Ishta, having been tortured by Moloc, is weak. It is obvious that Moloc knows that she no longer possesses a symbiote. He taunts her with the vial of tretonin that he has found in the bag she left when she fled the doomed meeting. But a Jaffa enters and informs him that a large army of rebel Jaffa are marching on his temple, and he departs, leaving her behind with his First Prime.

              As Moloc nears the ‘Gate, he is surprised to see it engage, and two missiles rush through. Aron has been trusted with the task of “laser painting” the target of Moloc for the missiles to follow, while Teal’c has rushed to rescue Ishta. During his following stand-off with the First Prime, they can hear the explosions of the missiles in the back ground telling of Moloc’s death. Ishta tells Teal’c to zat both her and the First Prime, which he does, and then is able to kill the enemy and free Ishta.

              After their return to the SGC, Kar’yn and Rya’c are married. Teal’c announces to his son that he fully supports his union with the Hak’tyl girl, and suggests that Rya’c’s late mother would have, too. As they leave for their honeymoon, Ishta admits to Teal’c that her sources have told her that another Goa’uld (Ba’al) has swept in to take over Moloc’s territory—something that Teal’c had warned them about.
              sigpic
              My Stories: FFdotNet
              My Stories AO3
              Thanks, Oma, for the Sig!

              Comment




                The Jaffa:

                In general, I don’t like the Jaffa episodes. I’ve been lucky to be able to review two that I like, though, so that’s cool. ☺ This particular episode, however, raises many questions for me about the Jaffa culture.

                First of all, we know that they believe in marriage, but do they really believe in fidelity? Kar’yn puts on a “Circle of Fidelity” during the ceremony, but what does that mean for a Jaffa? We know that Teal’c has, during the course of the show, been involved with two women at a time not once but TWICE. In “Crossroads”, a season four episode, he reunites with a lost lover, and they become involved again. This takes place while his wife is still very much alive. Secondly, while his relationship with Ishta isn’t defined as completely dedicated, it would seem to me that he would have more respect for her than to take up with his underage neighbor as he does in “Affinity”. So, is this fidelity only meant for the female Jaffa? Or does it mean something completely different?

                The Hak’tyl are interesting to me, too. Kar’yn makes a HUGE deal about Rya’c commenting on her beauty, insisting that his attentions in that regard are demeaning. But this meeting can’t possibly be the first time it’s come up. If she has accepted his compliments in private, what right does she have to throw them back at him in public? It would seem to me that they don’t communicate very well, in which case, Teal’c is right to be concerned for their happiness. If they were my kids, I would be, too! The argument that they have during their rehearsal is ridiculous—and I’m certain that Teal’c, watching from the shadows, felt vindicated about his opinions based on the tantrums that erupted.

                That brings to bear my biggest concern about the Jaffa. This episode showcases their inept communication skills. Each of the arguments that they have is long on drama and posturing, and really short on the equal give and take of ideas. Listen again to Teal’c and Ishta’s first argument. Each and every one of their statements is phrased in such a way to deny reasonable and useful communication. Most marriage or family counselors will tell you that to argue effectively, it’s important not to use “you” statements. “You make me mad.” is nowhere near as productive to say as, “I feel angry when. . .” Ishta refuses to listen to Teal’c’s reasoning behind wanting to wait to confront Moloc—even though his vast experience with the Goa’uld should tell her that he might know something about the situation.

                Every argument in the show is like that—even to the point where when Jack has to interrupt a massive fight amongst the Jaffa about going to help Ishta, it takes some serious yelling on Bra’tac’s part to quiet them, and Daniel is the only one who can iterate what’s going on. Is it any wonder that these people can’t seem to figure out freedom? They have to learn how to listen and share opinions and ideas before they can lead themselves and each other with equanimity.

                Jack:

                This is Jack’s most “Hammond-like” performance to date. He’s in the background, appropriate for an episode very much not him-centric. The most important exchange (besides the shippy bits that I’ll talk about later) concerning him in this episode is in his ping-pong game with Teal’c. Teal’c is distressed by Rya’c’s choice in this matter, and saddened that his son didn’t consult with him before making his decision. Jack suggests just sticking his fingers in his ears and humming loudly, which advice Teal’c ignores. Teal’c then goes on to say that he feels like a failure as a father because he has been unable to prevent Rya’c from making a terrible mistake.

                Now, maybe I’m just really sensitive about it, but this seems to be an odd statement. Nobody knows more than Jack how catastrophic things can happen to kids as a result of parental mistakes. I would argue that the child’s death is infinitely more devastating than would be a failed or difficult marriage. Teal’c’s statement seems at worst, an indictment, and at best, a rather thoughtless thing to say. In the years since Charlie’s death, Jack appears to have made some sort of peace with himself, but I still think that this moment had to have rankled him just a bit.

                Daniel and Sam:

                They are largely background performers here, although they do have pivotal scenes in their favor. Sam is the one who ultimately provides the means to kill Moloc, with her missiles. Daniel acts mostly as a mediator.

                Christopher Judge:

                He wrote the script, and did a fairly good job, I think. He understands the Jaffa, and provides some interesting looks into their culture. Notable amongst these is the fact that they ultimately admit that some pieces of tradition need to be done away with in order to progress towards freedom. (I am intrigued what one would need with a sharp knife on one’s honeymoon, however.) His brother Jeff (who plays Aron), is a formidable looking dude, but I’m not overly impressed with his acting skills. I think that Chris Judge got the talent in that regard.

                I like the working title of the script best, however—he really wanted to call it, “My Big Fat Jaffa Wedding”.

                Sam and Jack:

                There are a few notable places of shippyness in this episode. I think it’s funny how Sam doesn’t want to be the one to tell Jack that the wedding will be held on base. It seems that she’s a little sensitive about the issue (maybe getting cold feet already?), and she flees, making an excuse about finding a planet for the Hak’tyl.

                We’ve all watched and rewound and watched again the scene in the hallway where Jack grabs her arms. It’s cute and shippy and sweet. Squee! I also like when, surprised by the horse coming around the corner, he shields her with his own body. It seems unconscious to me—like he didn’t really mean to do it. It’s just his natural protective tendencies (ramped up whenever he’s around her) coming out to play.

                One part that really stuck out to me this time as sweet is the briefing room scene in the beginning. When Ishta says that they need a place to stay, Jack just kind of sits there nodding until a meaningful look from Sam urges him to offer them shelter at the SGC. It’s wonderfully foreshadowing of the scene in Continuum and the lunch invitation (I hope I’m remembering that part right).

                Also, during the wedding, they’re standing next to each other, and she looks up and over at him with this sweet little smile on her face. Now, if she were thinking about at the time, she probably wouldn’t have looked at His Hotness.


                Final Question:

                Assuming that these animals lived within the SGC for a week . . . Where did the poop go? And wouldn’t you all hate to be the one tasked with the clean up? Icky.
                sigpic
                My Stories: FFdotNet
                My Stories AO3
                Thanks, Oma, for the Sig!

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
                  Final Question:

                  Assuming that these animals lived within the SGC for a week . . . Where did the poop go?
                  Same place the rest of the hazardous waste goes.
                  If you're going to allow yourself to be offended by a cat, you might as well just pack it in -- Steven Brust

                  Comment


                    Lovely reviews everyone. I don't have much time so I'll just comment on a few things that caught my eye.

                    Originally posted by hedwig View Post
                    I will just say that while yes "kerry may be a great gal, Sam is a 'national treasure'" and that Jack has Sam on a pedestal, I do not agree that Sam has to step down and say "here I am". Jack is the one who put her on that pedestal; she didn't put herself up there. She doesn't even think of herself as being on one, so there is no stepping down for her to do. Jack has to realize he has put her there, and do something to realize what he's done and start looking at her as the real person she actually is ... a wonderful, regular person who happens to also be a genius. He's put an enormous burden on her by seeing her on a pedestal - somebody untouchable - somebody to be worshipped, but not touched (by him, anyway). I can't help thinking that even though it's a great compliment to say she's a national treasure, it's also rather insulting to her as the human woman she is that doesn't want that sort of title.

                    I will go so far as to say they both need to take some sort of action, and that it is not the sole responsibility of either one of them to make the first move.
                    Big ditto here. Though honestly, I've never gotten the 'she's too good for me' vibe from Jack regarding Sam, he's always come across as a guy who was confident in his own self-worth to me.

                    Originally posted by Lucycat View Post
                    JACK & SAM
                    O'neill wasn't in it much, but he did look nice in his dress uniform. There was no shippy moments, that I could see. However, it did sound like Jack was jealous about Sam's past working relationship with Colson when he said the line, "We all know who he is... some of us better than others," After he said this, Carter jumped up rather quickly and said "We worked together briefly!" as if defending herself.
                    This is something else that I've seen mentioned before but never quite understood. Would Jack really be so jealous as to make make such a petty swipe at Sam about one of her colleagues? I just thought Jack was pointing out that Sam was the only one of them who knew Colson beyond what was on TV or in their briefing papers. The jealous angle paints Jack in a pretty poor light IMHO, and is not something that I think fits the character.

                    Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
                    In general, I don’t like the Jaffa episodes. I’ve been lucky to be able to review two that I like, though, so that’s cool. ☺ This particular episode, however, raises many questions for me about the Jaffa culture.

                    First of all, we know that they believe in marriage, but do they really believe in fidelity? Kar’yn puts on a “Circle of Fidelity” during the ceremony, but what does that mean for a Jaffa? We know that Teal’c has, during the course of the show, been involved with two women at a time not once but TWICE. In “Crossroads”, a season four episode, he reunites with a lost lover, and they become involved again. This takes place while his wife is still very much alive. Secondly, while his relationship with Ishta isn’t defined as completely dedicated, it would seem to me that he would have more respect for her than to take up with his underage neighbor as he does in “Affinity”. So, is this fidelity only meant for the female Jaffa? Or does it mean something completely different?
                    Well, in both those cases Teal'c wasn't married. Yes, Drey'ac was still alive in Crossroads, but she and Teal'c were no longered married. And while he was sort of dating Ishta they weren't married either, so it seems more like the idea of fidelity mostly applies to married relationships to the Jaffa.

                    That brings to bear my biggest concern about the Jaffa. This episode showcases their inept communication skills. Each of the arguments that they have is long on drama and posturing, and really short on the equal give and take of ideas. Listen again to Teal’c and Ishta’s first argument. Each and every one of their statements is phrased in such a way to deny reasonable and useful communication. Most marriage or family counselors will tell you that to argue effectively, it’s important not to use “you” statements. “You make me mad.” is nowhere near as productive to say as, “I feel angry when. . .” Ishta refuses to listen to Teal’c’s reasoning behind wanting to wait to confront Moloc—even though his vast experience with the Goa’uld should tell her that he might know something about the situation.

                    Every argument in the show is like that—even to the point where when Jack has to interrupt a massive fight amongst the Jaffa about going to help Ishta, it takes some serious yelling on Bra’tac’s part to quiet them, and Daniel is the only one who can iterate what’s going on. Is it any wonder that these people can’t seem to figure out freedom? They have to learn how to listen and share opinions and ideas before they can lead themselves and each other with equanimity.
                    I think you make a good point here, and I think it's because for the longest time Jaffa society never really allowed for the free sharing to ideas or opinions. They seem to be a very hierarchical society, both in the military as well as within their families, I remember Teal'c expecting Drey'ac to obey him without question the first time we saw her in Bloodlines.

                    And I must be a bit of an odd-ball but I usually really like the Jaffa episodes. They make up the backbone of the series for me and one of my main disappointments with S9&10 was how the writers dropped the ball on that storyline IMHO.

                    Final Question:

                    Assuming that these animals lived within the SGC for a week . . . Where did the poop go? And wouldn’t you all hate to be the one tasked with the clean up? Icky.
                    LOL! Good question, the SGC janitors must have had a interesting time that week.

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
                      That brings to bear my biggest concern about the Jaffa. This episode showcases their inept communication skills. Each of the arguments that they have is long on drama and posturing, and really short on the equal give and take of ideas. Listen again to Teal’c and Ishta’s first argument. Each and every one of their statements is phrased in such a way to deny reasonable and useful communication. Most marriage or family counselors will tell you that to argue effectively, it’s important not to use “you” statements. “You make me mad.” is nowhere near as productive to say as, “I feel angry when. . .” Ishta refuses to listen to Teal’c’s reasoning behind wanting to wait to confront Moloc—even though his vast experience with the Goa’uld should tell her that he might know something about the situation.

                      Every argument in the show is like that—even to the point where when Jack has to interrupt a massive fight amongst the Jaffa about going to help Ishta, it takes some serious yelling on Bra’tac’s part to quiet them, and Daniel is the only one who can iterate what’s going on. Is it any wonder that these people can’t seem to figure out freedom? They have to learn how to listen and share opinions and ideas before they can lead themselves and each other with equanimity.
                      You make good points. But you also have to remember that these people haven't got a clue what a relationship/marriage counselor is and they've been raised and lived in a culture/society far removed from anything on earth - particularly relationships defined by Western culture. So for them this is normal behavior - just as it pretty much was 50 years or more ago here on earth - and actually still is in a lot of cultures around the world. On Chulak and in the jaffa society, men are superior to women, and that's what I see Teal'c behaving as. And Ishta is fighting for the rights of women to be equal to men (IMO), and so there's going to be conflict and friction between them until they work it out somehow.

                      Jack:

                      The most important exchange (besides the shippy bits that I’ll talk about later) concerning him in this episode is in his ping-pong game with Teal’c. Teal’c is distressed by Rya’c’s choice in this matter, and saddened that his son didn’t consult with him before making his decision. Jack suggests just sticking his fingers in his ears and humming loudly, which advice Teal’c ignores. Teal’c then goes on to say that he feels like a failure as a father because he has been unable to prevent Rya’c from making a terrible mistake.

                      Now, maybe I’m just really sensitive about it, but this seems to be an odd statement. Nobody knows more than Jack how catastrophic things can happen to kids as a result of parental mistakes. I would argue that the child’s death is infinitely more devastating than would be a failed or difficult marriage. Teal’c’s statement seems at worst, an indictment, and at best, a rather thoughtless thing to say. In the years since Charlie’s death, Jack appears to have made some sort of peace with himself, but I still think that this moment had to have rankled him just a bit.
                      I don't think Teal'c was being thoughtless or insensitive. He was talking about himself and how he personally feels about the situation with Ry'ac, and perhaps didn't think about Jack being sensitive to the issue - again, a Jaffa thing. And even if he did, it's been 9-10 years since Charlie's death, and as you say Jack has made a sort of peace with himself over the issue. So I think while Jack may have for an instant felt a sting at the comment, he realized very quickly that Teal'c meant nothing personal to him by it. Jack has had a lot of years to overcome being stung by somebody else's comment about that. People can't tread lightly around him on that subject forever.

                      Jack even said to Daniel in "Homecoming" when Daniel commented on Charlie's picture in his locker and how Jack had been suicidal when they first met: "Things change".

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post
                        Though honestly, I've never gotten the 'she's too good for me' vibe from Jack regarding Sam, he's always come across as a guy who was confident in his own self-worth to me.
                        I do believe some people take the idea too far, but I think the basic seed was planted in the show. For example, when Jack is saying goodbye to Dr. Carter at the end of POV he asks her how she could marry such a looser. Now yes, there was a bit of teasing to it, but I think his basic sense of inadequacy when it comes to Sam was there.

                        This is something else that I've seen mentioned before but never quite understood. Would Jack really be so jealous as to make make such a petty swipe at Sam about one of her colleagues? I just thought Jack was pointing out that Sam was the only one of them who knew Colson beyond what was on TV or in their briefing papers. The jealous angle paints Jack in a pretty poor light IMHO, and is not something that I think fits the character.
                        Personally, I think Jack has it in him to be passive aggressive. But I also think that just the way it was played he comes off as jealous. The statement itself and the way he says it ("Shut it off. We know who he is . . . some of us better than others.") doesn't sound like just an informational statement to me. He's short and snippy, and Sam's response seems very defensive. It doesn't sound like just an informational statement or an exchange between friends or a superior and subordinate. If I discount the jealousy motive and the friction in their relationship, it just comes off as mean and unnecessary.

                        Comment


                          regarding the Covenant conversations...

                          i haven't read all of the posts, but did anyone mention that it was originally intended that sam and alex had had a relationship years ago? i believe it's amanda that wanted to nix that idea. (hope i'm remembering this right)

                          but anyways, IF this is true, maybe jack's jealous-like attitude was in part from the idea of a sam/alex past relationship?
                          sally

                          sigpic

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                            I do believe some people take the idea too far, but I think the basic seed was planted in the show. For example, when Jack is saying goodbye to Dr. Carter at the end of POV he asks her how she could marry such a looser. Now yes, there was a bit of teasing to it, but I think his basic sense of inadequacy when it comes to Sam was there.
                            Well, Jack's always been self-deprecating, and he especially seems to like poking fun at himself in order to get someone else to lighten up. But I think there's a long way to go from there to him fundamentally feeling inadequate or being unworthy of being loved by Sam. Jack's always come across as being self-assured in his feelings and abilities to me, he may not always act on them, but I've never thought he lacked any confidence in them.

                            Personally, I think Jack has it in him to be passive aggressive. But I also think that just the way it was played he comes off as jealous. The statement itself and the way he says it ("Shut it off. We know who he is . . . some of us better than others.") doesn't sound like just an informational statement to me. He's short and snippy, and Sam's response seems very defensive. It doesn't sound like just an informational statement or an exchange between friends or a superior and subordinate. If I discount the jealousy motive and the friction in their relationship, it just comes off as mean and unnecessary.
                            I guess I just don't Jack as being snippy at Sam personally or Sam being defensive about her association with Colson in that scene. The guy is threatening to expose the whole program, seems reason enough to be a bit short-tempered. It just seemed liked that line was meant to let us know that Sam had a working relationship with Colson that the others didn't, so she'd be the one to take the lead in trying to talk to him.

                            I guess I just can't see any motive or reason for Jack to be jealous of Colson. He's the one that's worked closely with Sam for the past 8 years, that's forged a unique bond via their shared experiences. Colson is like like that scientist from Bane, a scientific colleague Sam has occasionally collaborated with, but that's it. Is Jack really going to be jealous of every guy that Sam happens to know better than him?

                            And even if Sam and Colson had had a relationship before, I still can't see Jack being jealous about it enough to be passive-aggressive with Sam. I just can't see him being so insecure in his relationship with Sam that he'd resort to those kind of comments, it just doesn't fit his character to me.

                            sigpic

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post
                              I guess I just don't Jack as being snippy at Sam personally or Sam being defensive about her association with Colson in that scene. The guy is threatening to expose the whole program, seems reason enough to be a bit short-tempered. It just seemed liked that line was meant to let us know that Sam had a working relationship with Colson that the others didn't, so she'd be the one to take the lead in trying to talk to him.

                              I guess I just can't see any motive or reason for Jack to be jealous of Colson. He's the one that's worked closely with Sam for the past 8 years, that's forged a unique bond via their shared experiences. Colson is like like that scientist from Bane, a scientific colleague Sam has occasionally collaborated with, but that's it. Is Jack really going to be jealous of every guy that Sam happens to know better than him?

                              And even if Sam and Colson had had a relationship before, I still can't see Jack being jealous about it enough to be passive-aggressive with Sam. I just can't see him being so insecure in his relationship with Sam that he'd resort to those kind of comments, it just doesn't fit his character to me.
                              I realize we aren't going to agree on this, but to clarify, I don't think Jack is jealous of Colson per se. But I do think he is insecure at where his relationship is with Sam right now. She just got engaged to , after all indications pointed to her turning him down. It has to have Jack wondering if he even knows her at all. And while he didn't stop her when given the chance, for whatever reason, I believe he is smarting. Jack has never been particularly good at dealing with his negative emotions, and that's what makes him snippy. I'm sure the overall situation didn't improve his mood. And I still think Sam comes off as being defensive and uncomfortable with him as well.

                              Comment


                                Just a quick reminder that Valenship is in just two weeks!

                                I hope you're all getting ready to party!


                                (Artwork by the lovely and talented Bekki)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X