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    Originally posted by Petra View Post
    In case I wasn't clear, I didn't mean this thread. I like coming here, because we always stay respectful towards each other and people are truly interested in exchanging opinions instead of forcing them each other's throats.

    However nowadays I post mainly in the SGU folder and...yeah. Let's just say that coming here and being able to express my love for the episode/series without having to defend my right to enjoy it in every single post I make is really welcome and quite rare these days. So, thank you Shippers.

    ((((((((((((((everybody participating in the thread))))))))))))))))))))
    I didn't think you meant us. I know you'r an SGU fan (I see the pink unicorn), and I realize that must be rough. Forgive me if I give you a hard time with that every once in a while. I try to contain myself, but I really hate that show and it just bubbles over sometimes.

    Well, I love NO, Lockdown, ZH and Avatar, but I would have gladly sacrificed Affinity, Covenant and End Game for some SG-1 off-world action.
    As you know, I would have been happy to get rid of Lockdown. But I also could do just fine with out Affinity (much better in fact if this one never happened), Covenant and End Game in favor of the off-world action as you say. Although, I would probably take Covenant over Lockdown.

    Those of you who've read my posts on various threads dedicated to discussing seasons 8-10 already know what I'm going to say. For the rest: the bolded doesn't make sense to me. Jack really doesn't have a big role in Affinity/Covenant/Sacrifices/End Game, not to mention PU. His amount of screentime/RDA's time wouldn't have changed at all if his scenes were instead used for the pre- & post-mission briefings, with the team off-world for the majority od the episode. Blaming RDA's schedule for the Earth based episodes in season 8 seems to be a cop-out; very convenient excuse that absolved the writers from having to work a little harder on the off-world episodes.
    Wow, season 8 has me saying this to you a lot. I agree.

    Comment


      Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
      So Sam takes two weeks and has conversations with all her friends and still seems to be totally unsure (and pretty miserable really) about marrying ; she even gives him the “it’s not you; it’s me” line. Then out of the blue, while she’s on duty and in charge, she agrees to marry him and is all smiles and they have a rather disgusting snog in front of everyone. Now I know AT complained about that scene and a lot of the reason it was shot that way was time and money. But it is so unrealistic. I can see no character motivation whatsoever not just for Sam’s sudden decisiveness but her whole change of attitude. Marrying is suddenly the most wonderful happy thing in the world. Did seeing him in action convince her that he was the perfect guy for her? Really?! After seven years of going into combat with Jack where they are so perfectly in sync no words are even necessary? Has she become completely delusional? Did the bad guys leave behind an alien poison that caused immediate severe brain damage? I don’t even know who this woman is!

      OK, I have to end this rant before I have an apoplectic fit.
      This just goes to prove that Rob Cooper has no clue how to write a good story for a woman. He took a strong, fairly well adjusted, smart woman and turned her into a "dweeb"? So the dweeb she was involved with could look smarter than her?

      Besides everything else you mentioned, I really hate how Sam just had to call in her cop boyfriend to analyze the "evidence" where Krista's boyfriend was killed, just so could be made to look smarter than Sam in the detecting and figure out that because of the way the body was found on the floor, it made him question the circumstances surrounding the death. Why the blankety-blank-blank did a woman as smart as Sam need to tell her this? She's already been shown to be smart enough and good enough at figuring stuff out all by herself herself ("Nightwalkers", "Smoke & Mirrors" anyone???), so why would she suddenly become unable to figure this out without 's assistance? Everything about this episode left a very nasty taste in my mouth.

      Othewise, about everything else you said: ditto.

      Comment


        We're all going to have eps we don't like and eps we love - and often those differ, and it's great how we can all accept here that just because we all (or most of us) share one common like (i.e. S/J) doesn't mean we see everything the same way
        *huggles thread*

        Although I'm actually not a fan of Pete!bashing I do agree with you guys! I think the concept of Pete (as in a boyfriend who didn't die and understood the pressures of her life) could have worked out well, but time and time again the ideals of the storyline fell flat and got in the way of well established characterisation. As you say we've seen Sam on stakeouts we've seen Sam investigating and we know she's got serious self-defense skills (so she should recognise the moves used). It does feel that there were a given set of parameters specified for this ep and everything had to be squeezed through a shape to get it to fit

        On a side note going back to avatar, one of the scientists in the lab is also used in Letters from Pegasus so not sure how she magically transported herself to Atlantis when no-one else has managed it (*note to TPTB* never underestimate the observational skills of fans)
        sigpicMy Fanfic

        Comment


          Originally posted by Aveo_amacus View Post
          On a side note going back to avatar, one of the scientists in the lab is also used in Letters from Pegasus so not sure how she magically transported herself to Atlantis when no-one else has managed it (*note to TPTB* never underestimate the observational skills of fans)


          I don't think it was until the SGU Save B.A.G. campaign that TPTB realized we even pay very close attention to the background performers.

          Comment


            I was just thinking more about Affinity, which believe me I really don't want to, and I wondered how things might have been different if Janet were still around. Janet was another strong, career oriented woman who Sam could relate to on a professional and personal level. They were close friends and while Janet didn't make regular trips off-world she still had a very irregular kind of job and a family.

            I know because Janet was AF and they worked together on base Sam probably couldn't (and wouldn't) have talked to her about the Jack issue. But getting her perspective on the relationship I think would have definitely grounded Sam and kept her from making so many dubious choices.

            Comment


              Excellent posts, hlndncr.

              I can't even bring myself to watch this episode again, as I can feel the bile rising just thinking about it.
              Suffice to say that I agree with everything you wrote.

              When this episode first aired, the shipper thread called it Assinity, because all the characters behaved like one.

              Before we had elimination games in the 'fun and games' part of the forum, there were excellent tournaments in which we discussed the episodes, plus there was a lot of maths involved in how we rated the episodes.
              The episode that aways 'won' the worst episode tournaments was Affinity, and the tournament players were a mixed group, not just shippers. I only mention this to show that it's not just us shippers that hate this episode.
              sigpic

              Comment


                Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                Told you this was going to be a long rant.
                Wow, hlndncr... tell us how you really feel

                I agree with you, tho... did not like that episode, did not like the portrayal of Sam or Teal'c.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by dipsofjazz View Post
                  Excellent posts, hlndncr.

                  I can't even bring myself to watch this episode again, as I can feel the bile rising just thinking about it.
                  Suffice to say that I agree with everything you wrote.

                  When this episode first aired, the shipper thread called it Assinity, because all the characters behaved like one.

                  Before we had elimination games in the 'fun and games' part of the forum, there were excellent tournaments in which we discussed the episodes, plus there was a lot of maths involved in how we rated the episodes.
                  The episode that aways 'won' the worst episode tournaments was Affinity, and the tournament players were a mixed group, not just shippers. I only mention this to show that it's not just us shippers that hate this episode.
                  Indeed!!!

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by dipsofjazz View Post
                    The episode that aways 'won' the worst episode tournaments was Affinity, and the tournament players were a mixed group, not just shippers. I only mention this to show that it's not just us shippers that hate this episode.
                    I did go over to the episode thread on the forum and read some of the criticisms by shippers and non-shippers when the episode was new, and I have to say I was actually surprised by how this episode was almost universally loathed. didn't come out too well either. Many thought he was better written than in Chimera (to which I ask, how could he have been written worse?), but they also recognized his continuing selfish and posessive behavior. I was glad to see this. I admit to being a crazy shipper who sees shippiness in almost anything, but I also like to think I have a good grasp on the rest of the characters and can reason things through objectively (except when watching the Grace Kiss - brain function ceases at that point ).

                    And I console myself with the knowledge that we don't have to see again until Threads, where Sam finally comes to her senses and DUMPS HIM!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                      I did go over to the episode thread on the forum and read some of the criticisms by shippers and non-shippers when the episode was new, and I have to say I was actually surprised by how this episode was almost universally loathed. didn't come out too well either. Many thought he was better written than in Chimera (to which I ask, how could he have been written worse?), but they also recognized his continuing selfish and posessive behavior. I was glad to see this. I admit to being a crazy shipper who sees shippiness in almost anything, but I also like to think I have a good grasp on the rest of the characters and can reason things through objectively (except when watching the Grace Kiss - brain function ceases at that point ).

                      And I console myself with the knowledge that we don't have to see again until Threads, where Sam finally comes to her senses and DUMPS HIM!
                      I don't know how TPTB could have written Pete so badly, when Jack's girlfriend Kerry was written so good. I think that if Sam had married Pete, Jack should have stayed with Kerry...

                      Comment


                        I'm probably one of the few people who isn't terribly sympathetic for Jack in Affinity. In my opinion, he could have at least given Sam some kind of hint (even if only a small one) that he still cared for her "more than he should". There are so many comments about how he thinks he's not good enough for her, that he wants her to be happy, etc., etc.

                        However, he's more than likely met Pete by now, and I can't help wondering how on earth he thinks Pete is good enough for her if he thinks he himself isn't good enough for her????

                        And if he only wants her to be happy, how can he stand there listening to her talk about the ring and so forth and be thinking she's happy??? Clearly, she is not! or she wouldn't be talking the way she is. If she's having this many questions about the whole thing, then obviously accepting the proposal is not the right thing for her.

                        And if he knows her as well as people seem to think he does, why not clearly tell her that if she's having this many doubts, then perhaps it's wiser to step back from the whole issue until she is sure. At least that way, he isn't giving away his own feelings, but he is giving her good advice.

                        And then there's the issue of how "it's always been up to Sam". Ha! How can she even begin to make an appropriate, informed choice when she doesn't have enough information to do so? She clearly doesn't know how he feels about her, because he won't let her know. If it's up to her to make the decision, then give her enough information to let her make that choice!

                        And just to be a little bit fair here, Sam shouldn't be trying to get him to admit some feelings for her if she's even for a second contemplating actually marrying Pete. And to now turn around and trounce this, I still fault Jack for letting Sam think he didn't care that way for her anymore.

                        Can you all tell I'm more of a Sam fan, than a Jack fan???

                        Plus, I simply don't see Jack as thinking of himself as unworthy. After all, he hooked up with Kerry later, and if he didn't think he was good enough for Sam, then how does he think he's good enough for Kerry ... a beautiful, smart, very intelligent career woman. Okay, maybe not as smart as Sam, but still ... And for me, the age issue is a non-issue, since Kerry is likely to be around Sam's age, if not a bit younger (even though the actress is a year or two older than AT), and Jack still got involved with her.

                        To sum up, I clearly have more sympathy for Sam in this issue than for Jack. But Jack is my second favorite character, so I do sympathize with him a little bit.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by hedwig View Post
                          I'm probably one of the few people who isn't terribly sympathetic for Jack in Affinity. In my opinion, he could have at least given Sam some kind of hint (even if only a small one) that he still cared for her "more than he should". There are so many comments about how he thinks he's not good enough for her, that he wants her to be happy, etc., etc.

                          However, he's more than likely met Pete by now, and I can't help wondering how on earth he thinks Pete is good enough for her if he thinks he himself isn't good enough for her????
                          True dat!!! There is no way Jack thinks is good enough for Sam.

                          And if he only wants her to be happy, how can he stand there listening to her talk about the ring and so forth and be thinking she's happy??? Clearly, she is not! or she wouldn't be talking the way she is. If she's having this many questions about the whole thing, then obviously accepting the proposal is not the right thing for her.

                          And if he knows her as well as people seem to think he does, why not clearly tell her that if she's having this many doubts, then perhaps it's wiser to step back from the whole issue until she is sure. At least that way, he isn't giving away his own feelings, but he is giving her good advice.
                          I have to give Jack a break here. I think it is very hard to give good advice to someone you love about their relationship with someone else. I get the feeling Jack would just rather stay away from the whole thing. I think he knows she's not happy, but he also knows he can't do anything himself to give her what she seems to want, which is both her career and a family.

                          [quote]And then there's the issue of how "it's always been up to Sam". Ha! How can she even begin to make an appropriate, informed choice when she doesn't have enough information to do so? She clearly doesn't know how he feels about her, because he won't let her know. If it's up to her to make the decision, then give her enough information to let her make that choice!

                          And just to be a little bit fair here, Sam shouldn't be trying to get him to admit some feelings for her if she's even for a second contemplating actually marrying Pete. And to now turn around and trounce this, I still fault Jack for letting Sam think he didn't care that way for her anymore.

                          Can you all tell I'm more of a Sam fan, than a Jack fan??? [/qoute]

                          I'm a fan of both. And in Grace Sam herself (through her Jack hallucination) realizes that if she really wants to know she has to ask (I mean really ask, not just hint around the edges), but she's the one who keeps stopping herself.

                          And they are at the SGC here, which is really the wrong place to have that conversation.

                          Plus, I simply don't see Jack as thinking of himself as unworthy. After all, he hooked up with Kerry later, and if he didn't think he was good enough for Sam, then how does he think he's good enough for Kerry ... a beautiful, smart, very intelligent career woman. Okay, maybe not as smart as Sam, but still ... And for me, the age issue is a non-issue, since Kerry is likely to be around Sam's age, if not a bit younger (even though the actress is a year or two older than AT), and Jack still got involved with her.
                          I'm really not the Kerry fan so many people seem to be. She's obviously more perceptive than (who isn't?), but she's no Sam. I really don't believe Jack's relationship with Kerry was that serious or that anything much would have come of it (even if horror of all horrors Sam actually did marry ). It was clearly a casual thing for both of them (and Kerry realized when she saw Sam and Jack together that it was always going to be that way on his part).

                          So while Kerry may be a great gal, Sam is "a national treasure." That's how high a pedistal he's placed her. And really she's going to have to be the one who steps down and says, "Here I am." I think that's what she did in Threads and it was enough for him to say to himself, "Still not good enough, but not willing to stand back and pretend anymore."

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                            So while Kerry may be a great gal, Sam is "a national treasure." That's how high a pedistal he's placed her. And really she's going to have to be the one who steps down and says, "Here I am." I think that's what she did in Threads and it was enough for him to say to himself, "Still not good enough, but not willing to stand back and pretend anymore."
                            I will just say that while yes "kerry may be a great gal, Sam is a 'national treasure'" and that Jack has Sam on a pedestal, I do not agree that Sam has to step down and say "here I am". Jack is the one who put her on that pedestal; she didn't put herself up there. She doesn't even think of herself as being on one, so there is no stepping down for her to do. Jack has to realize he has put her there, and do something to realize what he's done and start looking at her as the real person she actually is ... a wonderful, regular person who happens to also be a genius. He's put an enormous burden on her by seeing her on a pedestal - somebody untouchable - somebody to be worshipped, but not touched (by him, anyway). I can't help thinking that even though it's a great compliment to say she's a national treasure, it's also rather insulting to her as the human woman she is that doesn't want that sort of title.

                            I will go so far as to say they both need to take some sort of action, and that it is not the sole responsibility of either one of them to make the first move.

                            Comment




                              Covenant is the next in long line of Earth-based episodes, but with an concept Stargate hasn't really explored before. What would happen if the Stargate became public? After 7 years of top-secret missions through the Stargate... and about 2 years since Earth has had space-worthy ships, an outside source has uncovered proof that the government is covering up the existance of aliens.

                              Alec Colson, played by Charles Shaughnessy, is CEO of the global conglomerate and defense contractor Colson Industries. He plans to show the world his "alien" evidence within 24 hours, if the goverment does not. He says to his co-workers, "The truth is always right", but not eveyone agrees with him.

                              Brian Vogler, Colson's COO, right-hand man and best friend, begs Colson not to go ahead with this plan. For the sake of the spread-thin company's stock, Colson can't afford to lose credibility or to have the government against him. But Colson's determined.

                              Carter and Daniel go to Colson to see if his evidence is credible. Sam worked with him briefly on the F-302 (though he didn't know what it was for). Once there, Colson shows them pictures that were taken by his company's weather satellites. Pictures of the battle over Antarctica and Prometheus.

                              When the 24 hours is up and there is no word, Colson shows the world his evidence that aliens exist: an actual Asgard!

                              Carter confers with Thor, who says that no Asgard is currently on Earth. That plus the fact that this one didn't speak and looked vacant suggests it isn't an Asgard.

                              Daniel does some digging and discovers that a Colson biotech research company received a copy of Asgard DNA for sequencing when the SGC was trying to help the Asgard with their cloning problem. They weren't told the DNA was alien. It was supposed to be a blind study. But they obviously took their research a little further than the contract specified. Carter clarifies that Asgard DNA is programmed to allow clones to grow to maturity in just a few months, but they are essentially an empty shell until an existing consciousness can be transferred into them.

                              O'Neill says this has gone far enough and calls in Thor, who has the clone and all the corresponding research beamed out of Colson's lab. Carter, goes on TV and tells the public that Colson's alien was a product of 3D VR and advanced holographic projection. After the broadcast, Colson's plane goes down. Colson is fine but it looks like sabotage. Carter then suggests that they tell Colson the truth. Having a man of his resources on their side could be a good thing.

                              Colson is beamed to the SGC, where Carter introduces him to Thor. Carter takes Colson through the Stargate to the new Alpha site, and takes him up in one of the F-302s, to let him see his handiwork fully. She tries to convince him how important it is to maintain secrecy. She also tells him about a rogue group of former NID agents who want control of the Stargate. They'll never gain that control if the Stargate becomes public knowledge, and she suggests it was probably they who tried to kill him with the plane crash.

                              Colson is still intent on revealing the truth of the Stargate, but back at SGC, a news report says investigators now believe that Colson created the alien hoax in order to divert attention from his corporate financial problems. He has been publicly discredited and will soon be financially ruined. And it is his best friend, Brian Volger, who sold him out. He and his family were threatened by the Trust six months earlier. Vogler is ashamed of his actions, and Colson convinces him to wear a wire the next time he talks to the Trust. But Vogler hangs himself in his bathroom before that can happen.

                              After hearing this news, Carter offers Colson, who is about to commit suicide as well, a way out. He can still be of help to the planet, but not on this planet. He'll go to the Alpha site where he can help the SGC. He agrees, but is sad no one will ever know of the sacrifice he's making to help make a difference. Carter welcomes him to her world.

                              COMMENTS
                              While this episode had an interesting premise, and I like Charles Shaughnessy, I was bored by it. I'm personally not a fan of most of the Earth based shows that deal with NID and the Trust. I thought it was a waste of a Carter episode. I would have much preferred to see her go off-world and lead SG-1, rather than try to sway the beliefs of an old colleague. What happened to SG-1's primary mission? Wasn't it to go through the Stargate and explore new planets, forge new alliances, acquire new technologies?

                              In Colson, we see a different type of antagonist. He's not a fanatic or religious zealot... he's a respected, intelligent businessman who believes in people's right to know the truth. He's a sympathetic character, and someone we (as the audience) would believe in and maybe even agree with. So how to answer the question... does the public have the right to know about the Stargate? Or will it cause mass-panic? Is it better that the world is ignorant of an enemy far greater than anything seen here on Earth?

                              After the reveal of the alien clone, one of my first thoughts were, why the heck did they give alien DNA to an outside source? Is the Air Force that strapped that they have to send research to an outside agency instead of keeping it in-house? I can understand having Colson Industries help with aviation and 302 engines but alien DNA? Even with a blind study, I'd think it'd be too risky. And see what happened, they grew their own Asgard. (Wouldn't that be cool... grow your own alien clone, in just 3 months!)

                              Also, Sam seems to contradict herself. When she is having the conversation with Colson in the F-302, she makes the comment, "Yeah, I don't buy it either" when he makes the cancer analogy. Here is sounds like she agrees with Colson that the world SHOULD be told. But, in the next scene she adamantly tries to convince Colson that the world is not ready, and knowledge of alien life should stay a secret.

                              Though, it is nice seeing Sam flying the plane, she's usually in the co-pilot chair

                              And, it also seems everyone has a "source" that can give them Lieutenant Colonel Samatha Carter's cell-phone number. Who is this mysterious source, is his last name Shanahan??

                              Nice tie ins from previous episodes. As they are walking back to their sweet red Mustang convertible, Sam gets a call from Julia Donovan, the reporter from the episode Prometheus. Then Daniel has messages on his phone from Emmet Brenan, the reporter from Heroes.

                              This episode also puts a name to the rouge NID agency, the Trust.

                              JACK & SAM
                              O'neill wasn't in it much, but he did look nice in his dress uniform. There was no shippy moments, that I could see. However, it did sound like Jack was jealous about Sam's past working relationship with Colson when he said the line, "We all know who he is... some of us better than others," After he said this, Carter jumped up rather quickly and said "We worked together briefly!" as if defending herself.

                              FAVORITE SCENE
                              With Jack (of course).
                              "We're calling in a marker" Looks over his shoulder, then down at his watch. "Yup, calling in a marker"
                              Thor beams in.

                              Comment


                                Great review Lucy. And you were worried?!

                                Comment

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