Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
    And going back up to the Jessica Stein thing--I liked her MUCH more than TH as Weir. I didn't like TH--she's the main reason I never got into SGA. Her reading of the line "You're our prisoners. Take them away." (In the gateroom, about Camulus and that Japanese Sun goddess Goa'uld) makes my skin crawl. Literally. Crawl. I thought that JS was a better actress.
    I liked Jessica Steen better as well. I LOVED the way she stood up to Kinsey. I've often wondered why the didn't keep her. I read something on her website from her that she was never contacted to continue the part, and she didn't know why. Who knows, though? I thought she had more "presence"(?) in the role, though I did like TH well enough.

    Comment


      Ooh! Lots of discussion. As GW just lost the large multiquote post I did, let me just randomly pick up on points.

      The Daniel Jackson - Wasn't this from a production point of view nothing more than an in-joke because MS plays both Thor and Daniel? But on a in-story, why wasn't it The Samantha Carter - actually I'm with those that have pointed out that in general by this point Sam has certainly done more than Daniel to have qualified for having a ship named after her.

      Now at the point at which The O'Neill is created, they've only come across the Asgard 3 times (once at first meeting in Cimmeria where it is Daniel and Sam who make first contact, when Jack gets the Ancient knowledge and travels to the Asgard homeworld, and then when Thor arrives to negotiate Earth's place in the Protected Treaty at the beginning of S3 and chooses Jack as Earth's rep). So ostensibly at the point The O'Neill is created, Sam hasn't done much but Jack has successfully travelled to the Asgard homeworld, got their attention with his shiny advanced ATA gene (which we don't understand the relevance of at this point), and successfully negotiated Earth's position with the Goa'uld in the Asgard Protected Planet's treaty (with the help of Daniel and Sam to no small degree). But it's understandable that it's Jack who gets the ship named after him.

      Thereafter, while Jack is generally leading the team on forays where the Asgard are concerned, it is Sam who generally is coming up with the solutions to save Thor with the exception of the S5 finale where it is Jack who gets Thor's body back (almost at the expense of Sam getting caught by Osiris). She does it in Nemesis, in Small Victories and in Descent. It's really a Sam and Jack combined effort that wins the day in Unnatural Selection. All of which Daniel is absent for. So the only explanation in-story that makes any sense to me is that the Asgard value Daniel's Ascension over Sam's contribution to their survival. Or that they've given her a bigger honour than simply naming a ship after her, we just never hear about it.

      Would Sam have bought the fantasy if it was Jack not Pete? I don't think Sam would have bought any fantasy which involved her not being rescued. She was too aware that her last real memory was of being tortured by Fifth not to suspect that whatever scenario was more torture. I think there are a couple of fanfics that have played around with that idea - that Fifth fools Sam into thinking she's rescued but Sam eventually begins to realise the truth or that Sam finds it difficult to adjust afterward, fearful that the rescue is just another Fifth created fantasy. So, as far as a fantasy in which Sam lived with Jack on a farm or even in his cabin, I think she would have been as equally suspicious as she was with the Pete version; knowing it was a fantasy and possibly having even more doubts given the doubts I believe she had about whether Jack still cared for her romantically.

      JS vs TH: Personally, I prefer JS's version of Weir mainly because I think she brought a lot more vulnerability and sense of being out of her depth but standing up for what she believed in and doing the best she could. However, I do think TH's Weir who was more assured and self-possessed, sold the backstory of her diplomatic background better to make Weir leading the Atlantis expedition that first season of SGA work. I think both actresses made the part their own and both did a good job but if I'd had a choice I too would have had JS.
      Last edited by Rachel500; January 12, 2011, 03:51 AM.
      sigpic
      Women of the Gate LJ Community.
      My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

      Comment




        First off, made this banner to kick off our Season 8 discussion, but didn't get it finished in time. So I'm sharing it now.

        Next, thanks Rachel for pointing out the Daniel/Thor connection. I knew MS was Thor's voice but didn't consider the implications; so now that you mention it, having Thor's ship named after Daniel is kind of funny.

        Best Sam trapped in Replicator world with Jack fanfic: Mimesis by Annerb. Like so much of her writing it is dark and deep and you have to read it more than once to really get the full effect.
        Last edited by hlndncr; January 12, 2011, 10:22 AM.

        Comment


          Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
          Welcome back to you and your unpopular opinions.
          Why, thank you. You missed me disagreeing with you, didn't you? *just kidding*

          Seriously though, I missed this thread for our ability to disagree in a friendly manner.

          I concur that Hammond would have been involved in her promotion and it would have been a long process. But I'm also certain that Jack would have had something to do with it to; he was her CO and immediate supervisor for 7 years.
          I agree that he had something to do with it. I don't know the exact process, but I'm pretty sure a lot depended on his opinion, given that he was her immediate superior. Still, I maintain that it wasn't his "first order of business".

          From a production stand point I don't think they could have shown Jack's promotion in a believable way without Hammond and/or the President and those actors just weren't available.
          That's a good point. I still wish he could have seen it though

          I think we did see some of what you are talking about regard Jack's uncertainties and the support of his friends in the scene in Daniel's office when they're discussing his promotion.
          It's a nice scene, but Jack was written/played as a little too slow on the uptake there for my taste.

          Well I didn't think it was all that bad. Because Jack was now in charge they did have to do a few more earth/SGC based episodes out of necessity. And we got to see it from another perspective, of which Zero Hour is an excellent example that I too am looking forward to discussing.
          I didn't say it was all bad. I love the first 6 and last 6 or so episodes and in general I'm a huge season 8 supporter. I just wish the middle of the season was different.

          Sounds like a ship named after Sam to me.


          I think they like Jack and recognize him as the leader, but I still think Sam's the one mostly behind saving their skinny grey butts.
          That's probably true.
          Originally posted by Lucycat View Post
          As for a female Asgard, I think Hemidal was given female characteristics... and I think O'neill asked if she was a female...
          He didn't, but I remember reading somewhere that they asked Teryl to "play" Heimdall because s/he/it was supposed to be female and they wanted to give her female characteristics.

          Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
          Weren't they concerned that the replicators could make themselves invulnerable to the device? I thought that's why they decided that they needed to do all of them at once before they could update and be resistant to the weapon. That's what I thought, at least.
          They were, but it didn't stop Jack from blasting at them earlier...

          Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
          Now at the point at which The O'Neill is created, they've only come across the Asgard 3 times (once at first meeting in Cimmeria where it is Daniel and Sam who make first contact, when Jack gets the Ancient knowledge and travels to the Asgard homeworld, and then when Thor arrives to negotiate Earth's place in the Protected Treaty at the beginning of S3 and chooses Jack as Earth's rep). So ostensibly at the point The O'Neill is created, Sam hasn't done much but Jack has successfully travelled to the Asgard homeworld, got their attention with his shiny advanced ATA gene (which we don't understand the relevance of at this point), and successfully negotiated Earth's position with the Goa'uld in the Asgard Protected Planet's treaty (with the help of Daniel and Sam to no small degree). But it's understandable that it's Jack who gets the ship named after him.

          Thereafter, while Jack is generally leading the team on forays where the Asgard are concerned, it is Sam who generally is coming up with the solutions to save Thor with the exception of the S5 finale where it is Jack who gets Thor's body back (almost at the expense of Sam getting caught by Osiris). She does it in Nemesis, in Small Victories and in Descent. It's really a Sam and Jack combined effort that wins the day in Unnatural Selection. All of which Daniel is absent for. So the only explanation in-story that makes any sense to me is that the Asgard value Daniel's Ascension over Sam's contribution to their survival. Or that they've given her a bigger honour than simply naming a ship after her, we just never hear about it.
          Quoted simply because it's the truth

          Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
          Best Sam trapped in Replicator world with Jack fanfic: Mimesis by Annerb. Like so much of her writing it is dark and deep and you have to read it more than once to really get the full effect.
          I totally agree. I love Annerb's works in general, but this is one of my favourite stories of hers EVER. It's absolutely gorgeous. I even recommended it to my slasher friend, it's that good.
          There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
          sigpic
          awesome sig by Josiane

          Comment


            I eavesdrop here often, and just wanted to add something.
            Originally posted by Petra View Post
            I agree that he had something to do with it. I don't know the exact process, but I'm pretty sure a lot depended on his opinion, given that he was her immediate superior. Still, I maintain that it wasn't his "first order of business".
            I agree that both Hammond and Jack (and whoever else higher raking that could have prejudice on that matter) had something to do with Sam's promotion. I always took that line more like Jack saying it for the show. He's never all that serious, so I thought he said that more to make people laugh than anything else. I don't think he meant it like his real "first order of business", but more like what he said just before (paraphrasing), "I get to do really cool things like this." And as you all pointed out, he's all proud of her during that scene.

            That's all.

            *goes back into lurkdom*
            sigpic
            Live Peace. Speak Kindness. Dwell in possibility.
            My Livejournal. | My fanfictions. | My videos. | My twitter.
            Beautiful avi and sig are birthday presents fom josiane!

            Comment


              Love the Shipper Re-watch banner, HLNDNCR!! It's so beautiful!

              Comment


                I’m so sorry I'm late guys! RL

                Anyway, without any further ado, I present you with....

                awesome banner made by Josi


                Summary:The S.G.C. is put under quarantine after a mysterious infection leaves a Russian officer in the infirmary -- but the disease may not be a disease at all. *taken from GW*

                Favourite scene: There are 2 actually. 1) Jack and SG-1 discussing Russians and mash potatoes and 2) Jack being sneaky and announcing that the lockdown will be held indefinitely

                Favourite line/dialogue:
                TEAL'C: You have no recollection of the incident?
                JACKSON (plaintively): No! Who shot me?
                O'NEILL: Don't ... change the subject. What do you remember?
                JACKSON: Uh, I went to see Colonel Vaselov and right in the middle of our conversation he collapsed and I went to help him and ... that's it.
                CARTER: You don't remember accompanying him to the Infirmary?
                JACKSON (plaintively again): No! ... (Suspiciously) Who shot me?

                I love all the looks and pointing that follows that question. SG-1 seem to behave like a bunch of children who know they did something wrong and there's this family feel to this scene.

                and:
                O'NEILL: You're not supposed to be walking around.
                JACKSON: It's my arm. (He sits down.)
                O'NEILL: You were shot.
                JACKSON: I know -- you shot me.
                O'NEILL: Not the point.

                Shallow thoughts: Jack looks extremely yummy throughout the episode, but particularly in the scene where Col Vaselov reports in. Whay can I say, "I'm in Charge Here" attitude suits him Next, Teal'c looks hot too. I absolutely dig his hair this season - which is very significant, because I hate it later on. Daniel has a few "aren't I hot too" scenes and Sam looks just lovely.

                In general:

                As I mentioned during New Order discussion, I'm a huge season 8 fan, and Lockdown is one of my favourite episodes this season. The plot isn't terribly original, but it's fun and I enjoy the episode enough not to notice any plotholes (if there are any).

                There are 2 very important guest characters (I'm not counting Maj Kearney aka young Hammond from 1969), and I'd like to say a few words about them.

                I remember how anticipated Dr Brightman's appearance was the first time around. Quite a lot of people here on GW were betting on TPTB hiring a big-chested, long-haired blonde who’d walk around in sexy outfits and the fact that Allisson is so similar in the looks department to Janet was quite shocking. I also think it was one of the factors she wasn't well-received by the fans. Personally, I like her. I was indifferent at first, then, after many rewatches, I warmed up to her and after her guest starring in SGU I adore her character. Yes, she seems quite cold, detached, focused on facts and lacks Janet's warmth but I kinda like this change in the attitude. I also think that this is what Lexa Doing was aiming for in season 9/10, but IMO didn't manage to pull it off, while Alisen Down did. And finally, Jack must have liked and respected her too, if he took her with him to his new post in Washington.

                Now, Col Vaselov. I'm not a fan of Russian characters in Stargate (although I do like Jack's attitude towards them), but season 8 does a pretty good job where they are concerned. Up till this point only Col Chekov and Dr Markova were somewhat interesting, but season 8 gave us Vaselov and later on Daria, who I both genuinely like. Vaselov has some great scenes with Jack and Daniel (and I love Daniel's line about Jack being an "equal opportinity offender"), but my favourite one is when Teal'c talks to him. There's just so much respect, honesty and understanding there, it's heart-warming. Shame Sam didn't get to interact with him.

                Otot she has a nice scene with Teal’c, and I’m a sucker for Sam/Teal’c friendship.

                Then, there's Jack. It's the first episode with him in command and although at first he seems a bit overwhelmed with the paperwork, he manages quite nicely in the end. We don't see the frustration and uncertainty that he'll display in Zero Hour yet, although there are some signs of it. All in all, he seems to be settling in quite nicely, even if he seems to channel Hammond sometimes(like when he says to Kearney 'you did good son'). Actually Jack is one of the reasons why I love season 8 so much. His promotion and S/J ship allowed him some terrific character development. Additionally, in the episodes where he plays significant role, he also loses his “stupid, cosmic giddy Jack” persona. Lockdown is a wonderful example of that. I love the scene when he makes announcement about the SGC remaining in the lockdown mode as long as it takes to force Anubis’ hand. Throughout the episode Jack appears to be extremely efficient and professional; he knows how to “creatively” follow orders, he listens to his people and their ideas knowing when and how to use them, he gets to be really smart, funny, serious and even goes into action!mode ! What’s not to love? Also, he kinda blows his cover at the end; when Sam gives him the code of the planet she sent Anubis to he immediately recognizes it, off the top of his head. All in all, not as stupid as he wants people to think he is

                Finally, the team. This is a wonderfully team-y episode, for all that Jack isn’t on SG-1 anymore and there aren’t many scenes when all 4 members are together. Still, it’s very clear how comfortable they are with each other and how much they care about each other.

                Oh, and I do love that Jack and Sam get to shoot and beat people around, Teal’c gets to look intimidating and fire a few rounds and it’s poor Daniel who always gets shot and/or zatted.

                Sam/Jack

                There’s not much to tell, because Sam and Jack don’t interact with each other often. Jack talks to the guys and Dr Brightman, Sam talks to her and Daniel and when she has a scene with Jack, Dr Brightman or Daniel or Teal’c are there with her, so it’s more teamy than shippy. Still, there are some interesting moments.

                One, when Jack enters the room SG-1 is in after talking to Vaselov and Sam stands at attention. Jack’s face and the look he gives her speak volumes about his annoyance and surprise at her attempt to adhere to the protocol. It does seem a bit strange after the camaraderie and warmth they shared in the previous episode, but then again Sam has a sort of “ooops, that was unnecessary” look at the end. I think it’s important, because after the events of Lost City when Jack shut her down every time she started talking about her feelings and then after he accepted his promotion Sam was in danger of becoming very formal with him, and this was a clear signal that he doesn’t want that.

                The looking at each other sideways in the infirmary when Daniel asks who shot him was cute, although I see it as a friendly interaction.

                The last shippy moment – if you are inclined to see it that way – is right at the end, when Anubis goes through the Gate. Sam is the first one in the Gateroom and at Jack’s side, checking up on him. There’s also a moment when they almost clasp their hands, but Jack pulls off at the last second, when realization hits that Anubis left.


                In the episode their hands are even closer, almost touching, but GW doesn’t have a screencap for that.

                Nevertheless Sam helps him up with a hand on his shoulder and then makes a conscious decision to keep her hands to herself and off him I’d imagine that after the events of LC she feels the need to reassure herself he’s still there with her – especially a few moments after she almost lost him again.
                There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
                sigpic
                awesome sig by Josiane

                Comment


                  I just happened to be watching this episode when I came across this review, and would add an observation or two.

                  In the briefing room scene with Sam, Jack and Teal'c, just after visiting Daniel when he finds out who shot him, they are discussing the events to date. Sam and Jack are sitting awfully close together (Jack at the head of the table, Sam at the corner next to him) and both have their arms resting on the table and seem to be leaning somewhat toward each other, while Teal'c is sitting back from the table in his chair. This could be seen as somewhat shippy. Plus, while Sam is talking, Jack seems completely focussed on her and barely takes his eyes off of her.

                  Oh, and it's interesting that Jack is the one that zats Sam in the corridor after she's been taken over by Anubis. Shades of "The Entity"?

                  And in that last scene where Sam runs to Jack as he's laying on the floor in the gateroom, I could swear their hands actually touched ever so briefly, and they both snatched their hands away a little too hastily. I watched it a couple of times to be sure. And it was a bit surprising that though she was sitting in the control room at the computer when Anubis went through the gate, Sam was the first one through the door to go to Jack.

                  I never read any of the stuff about Dr. Brightman, so I had no preconceived notions, but I always liked her from the first time I saw her. She just has a different (and somewhat detached) personality that seems rather cold to some people. And I'm thinking she's now in Washington D.C. at whatever AF hospital is there because the SGC has (apparently) been shut down, and the gate is no longer at Cheyenne Mountain - though we have yet to learn where it got moved to. There was some talk about this around the time SGU started, and also because Walter is also at the Pentagon with Jack.

                  Alrighty, then, back to watching the episode.
                  Last edited by hedwig; January 14, 2011, 02:37 PM.

                  Comment


                    Thanks for the review Petra. Of course you won't be surprised that I'm now going to disagree with you.


                    Generally
                    I really don't like Lockdown. The plot makes no sense, and it's boring. They spend a lot of time talking with and about characters we don't know and it's very obvious from the beginning who's going to be the sacrificial lamb. Although, again the whole Anubis needs a body to go through the gate and somehow a few locked blast doors is going to stop him is just ridiculous. Even more idiotic is Daniel, of all people, suggesting that the Ancients would actually take in interest in their little infestation problem. Especially since they never gave it a chance to work anyway because as soon as Anubis was on the loose and moving from person to person, which is what they were trying to force him to do in the first place, they step in and try and stop them themselves--exactly contrary to the whole point of the lockdown to begin with.

                    It was of course necessary to show Jack in his new role as SGC commander, but we didn't need two in a row. Zero Hour did a much better job of showing the new responsibilities placed on Jack, especially since it included him watching his team go off and get into trouble without him (and not having Sam their to solve his problems). What Lockdown did was take the space of another neccessary establishing episode that we didn't really get at any point in the season, and that was the team under Sam's command going off without Jack. (We even had Daniel going off world with SG11 in this ep.! Why?!!!)

                    As far as Dr. Brightman's character goes, they were attempting to replace the irreplaceable and anyone following Janet was inevitably going to come off flat. Every doctor they tried after Janet, including Dr. Lam, was just a faded facimile of the original, IMO. I will say that I am glad they brought Brightman back. She's the only SG1 character that actually came off better on SGU than in the original. Maybe time and distance were responsible for the improvement. (And in SGA they proved that they could create a great Dr. character that wasn't a poor copy of Janet--and then they killed him off too, and replaced him with yet another poor copy of Janet, but I digresss). But honestly I find Brightman uninteresting and almost painful to watch here.

                    Sam and Jack
                    It might be surprising to those that know me and know how strong my rosey shippy glasses are to learn that I find very little in this episode that is shippy.

                    I do like the moment when Sam jumps up when Jack first enters her lab. I'm sure she hasn't done that since she was first assigned to his team and you can tell that Jack finds it disconcerting. Of all the things to hammer home to him that things are different now, her attempt at formality and deference I think was probably the most disturbing for him. This was his team and his family and even though he's now "the man" you can tell that he doesn't want that to change the way any of them treat him. You can tell Sam is unconfortable too. She has recently flown across the universe to save him and now he's not just her CO but the big boss. Yet she's still saving him, by telling him he can keep SG1 a three person team. (Although I think they all realize he probably should have assigned a forth.) So I see an added layer of angst and a little more distance forming between them. (Pushing her further into the arms of the dreaded !!!!!)

                    Comment


                      Hey fellow Shippers! Great reviews thus far.
                      As for my opinion of Lockdown, I'm more in agreement with Petra, but hlndncr had some valid points, too!

                      I liked seeing General Jack in charge! I liked that, when he was annoyed, he went to see his old team to vent his ire, and they, in turned, helped him relax. When he said "Thank you" to Carter after she said there was no regulation against a 3 person team, I thought that was shippy.

                      I never really got why they thought they needed to section off the base, since Anubis can go through walls. It makes sense that Anubis did what he did... to infect Sam, who is the one who can bypass everything... and then transfer to Jack to start the self-destruct. I guess the whole Lockdown was meant to be a ruse, to get Anubis to take action, because Jack "bluffed" him by saying they were on Lockdown indefinitely, but we knew it was only for 24 hours.

                      Another shippy moment (LOOK CLOSELY) and IMO, is when the gate is dialing and Sam is typing frantically on the keyboard. Teal'c sees Jack enter the gateroom and says, "O'neill". Sam looks up quickly with a worried look on her face... her man is infected and about to go through the gate, oh no!! (Okay, that's how I see it, when I watch it!)

                      Comment


                        I like seeing Jack in charge. And I think that was an important establishing conceptepisode that needed to be shown toward the beginning of the season. I just think Zero Hour did it much better, making Lockdown redundant and unnecessary. On the other hand they didn't establish Sam as being equally in charge of SG1, which I think was also very necessary. And that is a part of my disappointment with this episode.

                        Comment


                          Lockdown

                          Generally


                          Not a favourite episode at all. I agree with hlndncr that really Lockdown and Zero Hour serve the same purpose to some degree in showing Jack adjusting to his new command and Zero Hour is the better of the two.

                          However, there is a subtle difference in the two which, while I don't believe they needed two episodes to make the distinction, is important. Lockdown is about SG1 continuing to support Jack regardless of his new role and his needing their support: it's the message of "this is still going to be about the four of them." Zero Hour, on the other hand, is very much about widening the lens and showing that Jack now has a much larger team supporting him and him needing to be there for; the SGC. And that may mean his decisions as the SGC commander and what is right for the SGC, may be in conflict with his feelings for SG1.

                          Having said that, I still think one episode could have handled both, and certainly an episode *showing* Sam adjusting as SG1 leader out in the field (because Zero Hour really doesn't do that) would have been good.

                          Dr Brightman: Didn't her role get cut enormously so there's very little to her appearance in the end? I personally think she does OK but there was always going to be a gut "she's not Janet" reaction. There's a great Dr Brightman story by shena8 over at the Women of the Gate Ficathon which is in progress at the mo: Cold Fish

                          Sam and Jack

                          For me, the most significant thing is the moment where she jumps up in response to his entering the room and his slightly taken aback attitude about it.

                          Namely, because I think Jack, on one level, is in a state of denial about his promotion and how much it will change things with his old team. It's almost as though he's accepted the position and while intellectually knowing this means a huge change professionally, hasn't actually considered that anything will change with SG1. I kind of see him thinking idly in professinal terms that there's no real change; he was their team leader after all so he's still the boss of them as SGC commander. But I don't think he's seriously considered the personal ramifications (something that actually takes the whole of S8 for him to work out).

                          One of which stares him in the face when Sam jumps up in line with protocol. Because it signals to me that Sam has considered the personal ramifications and one of which is in her eyes that his promotion makes any possibility of a *them* even more unlikely. It ties their COC even more tightly together. And while I think Sam is very consciously proud of him, and very supportive of him in his new position, I think she also subconsciously takes the fact that he's accepted the position and therefore put that distance between them as more evidence that he's not interested in anything other than the really close friendship they have together.

                          Put simply: Jack doesn't want things to change between them on a personal level, but from Sam's perspective things have already changed between them with his promotion, and while she acquiesces to his need to pretend otherwise, she knows it deep down.
                          sigpic
                          Women of the Gate LJ Community.
                          My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

                          Comment


                            Fab review, Petra! I'm in the middle between you and hlndncr on this one - I do like Lockdown, but don't love it, and do see a lot of hlndncr's points. Overall though I think the things I like about this episode coincide with all the things Petra praises - I love Jack here and the fantastic teaminess (love the 'who shot me?' discussion too ) and I definitely see the ship.

                            Originally posted by Petra View Post
                            Then, there's Jack. It's the first episode with him in command and although at first he seems a bit overwhelmed with the paperwork, he manages quite nicely in the end. We don't see the frustration and uncertainty that he'll display in Zero Hour yet, although there are some signs of it. All in all, he seems to be settling in quite nicely, even if he seems to channel Hammond sometimes(like when he says to Kearney 'you did good son'). Actually Jack is one of the reasons why I love season 8 so much. His promotion and S/J ship allowed him some terrific character development. Additionally, in the episodes where he plays significant role, he also loses his “stupid, cosmic giddy Jack” persona. Lockdown is a wonderful example of that. I love the scene when he makes announcement about the SGC remaining in the lockdown mode as long as it takes to force Anubis’ hand. Throughout the episode Jack appears to be extremely efficient and professional; he knows how to “creatively” follow orders, he listens to his people and their ideas knowing when and how to use them, he gets to be really smart, funny, serious and even goes into action!mode ! What’s not to love? Also, he kinda blows his cover at the end; when Sam gives him the code of the planet she sent Anubis to he immediately recognizes it, off the top of his head. All in all, not as stupid as he wants people to think he is
                            Quoting all of this to basically agree with it - especially the parts I've bolded. I think we really see the complexity of Jack's character in season 8, and I love how obvious it makes it that goofy Jack is a persona. But I'm going to say a lot more about Jack in my Zero Hour write-up on Monday so I won't say too much more now Oh and also a bit more later on in this post...

                            One, when Jack enters the room SG-1 is in after talking to Vaselov and Sam stands at attention. Jack’s face and the look he gives her speak volumes about his annoyance and surprise at her attempt to adhere to the protocol. It does seem a bit strange after the camaraderie and warmth they shared in the previous episode, but then again Sam has a sort of “ooops, that was unnecessary” look at the end. I think it’s important, because after the events of Lost City when Jack shut her down every time she started talking about her feelings and then after he accepted his promotion Sam was in danger of becoming very formal with him, and this was a clear signal that he doesn’t want that.
                            I agree that this is an interesting moment, and says a lot about both of them. Sam's concern with the rules, which is such a part of her character (although she has learnt from Jack over the years (and continues to learn) that sometimes rules need to be bent a little bit), is actually something that I think she falls back on as a defence when she's uncertain - here things have changed, suddenly, and she's not entirely sure Jack's promotion is going to affect their relationship, so she defaults back to what the rules say - he is now, effectively, Hammond, and much as she loved Hammond she always stood to attention when he came into the room. She's letting her attitude towards the position override her attitude to the man, but failing to recognise that her relationship to Jack is very different to her relationship to Hammond, even without the shippy stuff. Or perhaps rather it's that she does recognise that and is uncomfortable with how to act around him now that he has become The Man, as you say. I do love that Jack basically shoots her down with a WTF? look

                            Originally posted by hedwig View Post
                            In the briefing room scene with Sam, Jack and Teal'c, just after visiting Daniel when he finds out who shot him, they are discussing the events to date. Sam and Jack are sitting awfully close together (Jack at the head of the table, Sam at the corner next to him) and both have their arms resting on the table and seem to be leaning somewhat toward each other, while Teal'c is sitting back from the table in his chair. This could be seen as somewhat shippy. Plus, while Sam is talking, Jack seems completely focussed on her and barely takes his eyes off of her.

                            Oh, and it's interesting that Jack is the one that zats Sam in the corridor after she's been taken over by Anubis. Shades of "The Entity"?

                            And in that last scene where Sam runs to Jack as he's laying on the floor in the gateroom, I could swear their hands actually touched ever so briefly, and they both snatched their hands away a little too hastily. I watched it a couple of times to be sure. And it was a bit surprising that though she was sitting in the control room at the computer when Anubis went through the gate, Sam was the first one through the door to go to Jack.
                            Nice observations I think all of these show that once Sam got over her brief 'what do I do now he's the general' uncertainty, she went right back to being unconsciously comfortable round him - the body language goes right back into that synchronicity that they so often show. Until, of course, there's any touching - that always is pulled back from suspiciously fast!

                            Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                            I like seeing Jack in charge. And I think that was an important establishing conceptepisode that needed to be shown toward the beginning of the season. I just think Zero Hour did it much better, making Lockdown redundant and unnecessary. On the other hand they didn't establish Sam as being equally in charge of SG1, which I think was also very necessary. And that is a part of my disappointment with this episode.
                            And OK, now I can pick up the threads of my Jack point from earlier in the post. I disagree completely that Lockdown is redundant when we also have Zero Hour to show 'Jack in charge'. Personally I actually feel the two episodes complement each other and show two sides of the picture - taken together they really establish Jack as the base leader. Here we have Jack thrust into a real crisis, with his team on hand, where he is entirely in control and basically taking to the whole thing like a duck to water. In Zero Hour (again not to anticipate too much) he is faced initially with a series of seemingly trivial problems, while his team is away from him - and he is far less comfortable. Then Baal turns up, which never leads to Jack at his best, and he thinks his team are in danger, and he struggles. But I'll come back to all that. Mostly I just wanted to say that I think we see a very different Jack in the two episodes for good reason, and the reasons why he is different show an awful lot about his character and about how he is going to act as the base leader for the rest of the season.

                            Edit: and as I was typing that, Rachel has come along and made a similar (yet not entirely the same) point!
                            sigpic
                            Artwork for All | Sig & avi by JadedWraith

                            Comment


                              I agree with both Rachel and Josi that Lockdown and Zero Hour show a different aspect of Jack in his new role. But like Rachel said, I think they could have done this in one episode.

                              I didn't want to go into all the reasons I think ZH is better because I didn't want to get ahead of Josi's review. But as I think you both pointed out, Lockdown is about Jack wanting to keep things the same and even being able to pretend to a certain extent that they are. He still has his team with him, supporting him, helping to solve his problems.

                              Sam seems to be the only one to realize that it is not the same and really can't be, which she demonstrates with her coming to attention when Jack enters the room. Daniel and Teal'c you notice treat Jack exactly the same. It isn't until ZH (and really becomes a recurring theme throughout the season now that I think about it) that Jack has to accept that his greater responsibilities means he does have to step back from SG1 because the larger interests won't always favor his team and he has to make those tough decision, and he has to do it alone.

                              I think ZH does a better job of showing the changes in his relationship with Sam too. He wants to maintain their comfortable friendship (at the very least) but she is more detached and professional with him (his command for her to remain at ease notwithstanding). But I will get into that more when we start our discussion of ZH, which if you can't tell, I'm really looking forward to.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                                I agree with both Rachel and Josi that Lockdown and Zero Hour show a different aspect of Jack in his new role. But like Rachel said, I think they could have done this in one episode.

                                I didn't want to go into all the reasons I think ZH is better because I didn't want to get ahead of Josi's review. But as I think you both pointed out, Lockdown is about Jack wanting to keep things the same and even being able to pretend to a certain extent that they are. He still has his team with him, supporting him, helping to solve his problems.

                                Sam seems to be the only one to realize that it is not the same and really can't be, which she demonstrates with her coming to attention when Jack enters the room. Daniel and Teal'c you notice treat Jack exactly the same. It isn't until ZH (and really becomes a recurring theme throughout the season now that I think about it) that Jack has to accept that his greater responsibilities means he does have to step back from SG1 because the larger interests won't always favor his team and he has to make those tough decision, and he has to do it alone.

                                I think ZH does a better job of showing the changes in his relationship with Sam too. He wants to maintain their comfortable friendship (at the very least) but she is more detached and professional with him (his command for her to remain at ease notwithstanding). But I will get into that more when we start our discussion of ZH, which if you can't tell, I'm really looking forward to.
                                I actually think much of Jack's arc in S8 is about him struggling with the fact that he's really too close to SG1 to lead them objectively. And while he could hide that to a large degree when he was in the field with them (with a few exceptions such as Grace), he's much less successful at hiding it when he no longer has *it was an in-the-moment, field decision* argument to hide behind and, has to make those decisions weighed against not just the mission of the moment but the whole good of the SGC and the wider mission at large. But that's something I'll come back to in the one with the Jaffa poison and the Trust.
                                sigpic
                                Women of the Gate LJ Community.
                                My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X