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    Originally posted by Nefer View Post
    P.S. unfortunately I didn't read your summary Sarai (as you said yourself, long!), but I'm sure it was fab.
    No offence taken , I tend to write it as I'm watching the ep - blow for blow - so it can become rather long winded !

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      Originally posted by Nefer View Post

      So, my 2 cents on Chimera and Pete:

      As opposed to many of you I actually liked the episode. I also liked the concept of Pete, and didn't mind its execution very much (ok, they could have cast someone hunkier, ...). Their relationship makes sense to me.

      I agree with all the reasons you mentioned for her to begin this relationship. However, I think there's something else there: I think after Grace, she hasn't completely given up hope that her feelings for Jack are reciprocated, and now she's trying to get confirmation either way. When they talk in the elevator there would be absolutely no reason for her to tell him about her date, except if she was either bitter or wanted to provoke a reaction. And when he doesn't react, she is one step closer to believing that Jack has no interest in her anymore. Again, when she is pondering whether to accept the proposal. It's like:

      Come on, do something, say something!

      But he DOESN'T! Arrgh! (I'll save that for the Affinity discussion).
      My husband (of 33 years) and I were watching a TV show that had 2 men fight over a woman, so I jokingly asked him if he would fight another over me. He replied 'No'. I was nonplussed and asked him why. He said that he would expect me to make the choice between them and if I was that involved with someone else he'd step back - fighting would be adolescent and pointless.
      Beside Jack leaving the choice to Sam, he is her boss and he cannot ethically approach her. (I really am a hopelessly romantic shipper)

      And only after this does she decide to really commit to Pete, because it seems that Jack has completely walked away from 'them'. And I think her being upset about Jacob mentioning 'picking flowers' in front of Jack in Threads is mainly about not wanting to open that can of worms again, since she has already made her decision.

      I just need to add, that I absolutely love Sam/other because it generates sooo much angst and tension
      Sam seem embarrassed by Pete calling her at work and seems to me to be trying to avoid him with the excuse of work. Jacob and Jack force her hand and in the end help her realize what she is avoiding - commitment to Pete.
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        DK is one of my favorite episodes.
        Jack's arm is around Sam but his hand doesn't touch her as if he is well aware of Pete in her life and Jack no longer has any place in it except as fellow soldier.
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          Well, fighting Pete would have been way over the top (and completely OOC for Jack). Although I'd watch Jack fight no matter what ... And there's a big difference between trying to undermine that special person's relationship and letting them know you do still like them! Of course he can't/shouldn't actually take the first step, but he could have been a little less indifferent about her engagement. Personally, I think a little bit of ... lets call it jealousy for lack of a better expression, is necessary in any relationship. If you get the feeling the other person doesn't care enough to make even the tiniest effort for you, why bother?

          But I also think that Jack interprets Sam's actions incorrectly in that he assumes the same thing she does. "Her going out with someone else must mean she's not interested anymore and I would only make an idiot of myself if I said anything now". And thus tries to move on with Kerry.

          Maybe I need to add here that I DO NOT have any issues with the way the Pete/Sam/Jack storyline is written or acted or anything, my complaints concern only the romantic tragedy that is S/J. Sometimes I tend to take the whole thing too seriously. And sometimes I forget that these people do not actually exist
          Big shippy sigh of frustration to that!
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            I know this is a rather blasphemous opinion, but in my opinion, because Jack refused to/wouldn't/couldn't at least give her a hint that he still cared enough (regardless of how inappropriate it was, and regardless of any other reason he may have had for keeping his mouth shut), ... he deserved to lose her. That doesn't mean I'm not a shipper or that I'm a bad shipper or anything like that. It's just that he's forcing her (in a sense) to make a fool out of herself - with the distinct possibility of rejection from him - because (again IMO) he's too afraid to take that step himself. So in my mind, Sam is actually the braver of the two of them, with enough guts to finally take that step forward to break the impasse.

            (*runs and hides*...)
            Last edited by hedwig; November 21, 2010, 06:16 PM.

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              WOW, lots of posts for Chimera & Death Knell! I'm late to the party, and most of my opinions have already been posted... but here is my 2 cents!!

              I was not too upset with the idea of Sam dating. I think she was heading in that direction after Grace. It was just the characterization of Pete that I didn't like. His complete lack of trust in Sam because she wouldn't tell him about her work. She is a Major in the Air Force and Theoretical Astrophysicist who works on classified government projects, that's all he needs to know. Being a cop he should know and respect what "classified" means. But instead he does a background check, stalks her and then interferes during the op... he should have been thrown in the brig and reprimanded, imo. He most certainly should NOT have been allowed to know about the Stargate, a program so TOP SECRET that most political & other military leaders don't know about it. I thought that was just ridiculous!

              Also, ever the S/J shipper, I really didn't need to see Sam in bed with Pete, that just makes me want to hurl!

              Death Knell

              Liked seeing soldier Sam take action, use her survival skills to outwit the super soldier, and use her swiss army knife to MacGyver the rocket! Great Sam ep!

              About the hug at the end, it being said that she takes comfort from Jack as a fellow soldier. Yes, AT did say she didn't want to appear "girly" and she felt it was a soldier moment, but what if it was Colonel Dixon or Reynolds who found her? I don't see her cuddling up to either one of them. She accepted comfort from Jack because it was Jack, imo. I think she probably would have done the same if it was Teal'c or Daniel, but not any of the other soldiers.

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                Originally posted by Lucycat View Post
                About the hug at the end, it being said that she takes comfort from Jack as a fellow soldier. Yes, AT did say she didn't want to appear "girly" and she felt it was a soldier moment, but what if it was Colonel Dixon or Reynolds who found her? I don't see her cuddling up to either one of them. She accepted comfort from Jack because it was Jack, imo. I think she probably would have done the same if it was Teal'c or Daniel, but not any of the other soldiers.
                Maybe she would from Reynolds. After all, she was the one cradling him when he was injured in "Evolution, p. 1". So, maybe she'd accept an arm around the shoulder from him.

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                  Originally posted by Nefer View Post
                  Well, fighting Pete would have been way over the top (and completely OOC for Jack). Although I'd watch Jack fight no matter what ... And there's a big difference between trying to undermine that special person's relationship and letting them know you do still like them! Of course he can't/shouldn't actually take the first step, but he could have been a little less indifferent about her engagement. Personally, I think a little bit of ... lets call it jealousy for lack of a better expression, is necessary in any relationship. If you get the feeling the other person doesn't care enough to make even the tiniest effort for you, why bother?

                  But I also think that Jack interprets Sam's actions incorrectly in that he assumes the same thing she does. "Her going out with someone else must mean she's not interested anymore and I would only make an idiot of myself if I said anything now". And thus tries to move on with Kerry.

                  Maybe I need to add here that I DO NOT have any issues with the way the Pete/Sam/Jack storyline is written or acted or anything, my complaints concern only the romantic tragedy that is S/J. Sometimes I tend to take the whole thing too seriously. And sometimes I forget that these people do not actually exist
                  Big shippy sigh of frustration to that!
                  What I was trying to say is that once Pete comes on the scene Sam has already made a decision. And Jack in the elevator in essence realizes this even if Sam doesn't. Maybe it is a factor of my age - closer to Jack than most - it was only one guy (or gal) at a time. Sam in her hallucination thought of Jack as a backup but I don't think he sees himself that way. I would think going out with some one else does mean you have changed course in your life and that decision should be respected not undermined.
                  Last edited by Zoser; November 22, 2010, 08:28 AM.
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                    Originally posted by hedwig View Post
                    I know this is a rather blasphemous opinion, but in my opinion, because Jack refused to/wouldn't/couldn't at least give her a hint that he still cared enough (regardless of how inappropriate it was, and regardless of any other reason he may have had for keeping his mouth shut), ... he deserved to lose her. That doesn't mean I'm not a shipper or that I'm a bad shipper or anything like that. It's just that he's forcing her (in a sense) to make a fool out of herself - with the distinct possibility of rejection from him - because (again IMO) he's too afraid to take that step himself. So in my mind, Sam is actually the braver of the two of them, with enough guts to finally take that step forward to break the impasse.

                    (*runs and hides*...)
                    And I think it was cowardly of Sam to turn from the man she thinks she loves even if she finds out he does love or want her. At least she would know the truth no matter how it would hurt.
                    Maybe Sam just hasn't had enough experience in her life - but I find that hard to believe - she is close to 40 at the end of season 8.
                    Then again most of us are fools when it comes to love!
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                      Originally posted by Zoser View Post
                      What I was trying to say is that once Pete comes on the scene Sam has already made a decision. And Jack in the elevator in essence realizes this even if Sam doesn't. May it is a factor of my age - closer to Jack than most - it was only one guy (or gal) at a time. Sam in her hallucination thought of Jack as a backup but I don't think he sees himself that way. I would think going out with some one else does mean you have changed course in your life and that decision should be respected not undermined.
                      I never thought Sam saw Jack as a backup. I've always felt he was her first choice, and Pete was the backup to Jack. And while I'm closer to Jack's age than Sam's, and even though she was just starting to see Pete (they hadn't even gotten to the infamous spending the night together scene), I don't think it would have been a problem for Jack to at least give her a clue he was still interested in her, and then let her decide which course she wanted to pursue. I understand the whole issue over the regs, but I really, really don't think either one of them would have reported the other for crossing that line in order to talk about it. Had they at least talked about it (even if briefly), they then could have agreed to set it aside until a future date and then revisit it. I have no problem at all with this.

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                        O'NEILL: Hey. This is you talking here. Might as well be honest.

                        CARTER: What if I quit the Air Force? Would that change anything or is it just an excuse?

                        O'NEILL: I would never ask you to give up your career.

                        CARTER: Because you don't feel anything for me?

                        O'NEILL: Carter.

                        CARTER: I'd let you go right now if I knew.

                        O'NEILL: That easy?

                        CARTER: I didn't say it would be easy.

                        O'NEILL: Then what's stopping you if you really wanna know?

                        CARTER: I'm trying.

                        O'NEILL: Maybe it's not me that's the problem here. Let's face it, I'm not that complex.

                        CARTER: Me?

                        O'NEILL: Sam. I'm a safe bet.

                        CARTER: As long as I'm thinking about you, setting my sights on what I think is unobtainable, there's no chance of being hurt by someone else.

                        O'NEILL: Jacob was right. You deserve more. I will always be there for you, no matter what. Believe me.

                        Sam wants to know - but doesn't approach the problem head on like she would for a scientific problem.
                        This is all in her head, so she sees him as 'a safe bet' and someone who 'will always be there for you, no matter what'.
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                          But that doesn't make him her "backup" guy. At least, not in my opinion. That makes him the one she wants the most, over and above anybody else.

                          And approaching something from a logical, detached point of view is way different than approaching something from the emotional point of view.

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                            And she kind of misunderstands herself--I think it's scientific thinking to an extreme. She's overthinking what she's thinking that he's saying.

                            "Sam, I'm a safe bet." If Jack had really said that rather than Sam's own mind saying that, I would have taken that as, "Sam, whatever you want, I'll do it so that we can be together."

                            As it is, she talked herself into thinking something else. She took it and interpreted it in the way that a person who was insecure about herself and her own desirability and her own ability to establish and maintain a relationship would take it, hence we hear her interpretation in her next delivered line.

                            Jack's next line (remember, it's also Sam's next line) is, "Jacob was right. You deserve more. I will always be there for you, no matter what. Believe me."

                            Again, if JACK had said this, I think he would have been referring to the fact that Sam deserved more FROM JACK. And then he pledged his love for her with his--"I'll always be there" line.

                            Sam, in her state of thinking in that time, took that as a pledge of friendship only, thus propelling her to go looking for the MORE from someone else.

                            All in all, I think that she needed a Pete in her life--if only to show her that she couldn't be with a Pete.

                            It doesn't mean that I like the Pete episodes, though.
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                              If Jack had really said that rather than Sam's own mind saying that, I would have taken that as, "Sam, whatever you want, I'll do it so that we can be together."
                              And I think Jack would say "Sam, whatever you want, I'll do" Implying to order to be together but also to disappear from her life.

                              Jack's next line (remember, it's also Sam's next line) is, "Jacob was right. You deserve more. I will always be there for you, no matter what. Believe me."

                              Again, if JACK had said this, I think he would have been referring to the fact that Sam deserved more FROM JACK. And then he pledged his love for her with his--"I'll always be there" line.

                              Sam, in her state of thinking in that time, took that as a pledge of friendship only, thus propelling her to go looking for the MORE from someone else.
                              I think she come to this after the "excuse me " line. When I taught I used that line a lot but it wasn't always understood - I meant 'shape up'

                              All in all, I think that she needed a Pete in her life--if only to show her that she couldn't be with a Pete.

                              It doesn't mean that I like the Pete episodes, though
                              I am so ambivalent about Pete - I wonder if he were what I consider handsome and with a great personality I would have found him acceptable.

                              I'm off to the country for Thanksgiving to celebrate with family!
                              Hope you all enjoy family, friends, and bounty of our Earth with a grateful heart.
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                                Originally posted by Zoser View Post
                                I am so ambivalent about Pete - I wonder if he were what I consider handsome and with a great personality I would have found him acceptable.
                                I have wondered this too. I'm not so bothered that Sam got to have a relationship (finally). I just think there could have been a way better choice in who it was and a way better storyline attached to that relationship.

                                I'm off to the country for Thanksgiving to celebrate with family!
                                Hope you all enjoy family, friends, and bounty of our Earth with a grateful heart.
                                Have a great holiday.

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