Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by Nynaeve506 View Post
    But the point is - she obeyed. That's what I'm trying to get at. It doesn't matter how she felt, she did it. Is she military because she fits the mold so well and she prefers to follow? Or does she obey because she's trained to do that?

    Chicken or the egg.

    Either way, I think it makes her relationship with Pete plausible.
    Wouldn't her refusing to obey orders get her charged with insubordination or possibly being court martialed? Or should she have disobeyed regardless of that possibility when she so clearly disagreed with the orders?

    I doubt very much that Jack would reprimand her for disobeying him. But Bauer wouldn't have hesitated to charge her with something had she disobeyed him.

    Comment


      Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post
      Well, if time and proximity allows Sam to get to know someone like Jack, wouldn't the same help Pete to get to know Sam, esp since she isn't nearly as distant towards people as Jack generally is? In an odd sort of way, I can picture the relationship between Sam and Pete being not unlike Jack's relationship with Sara, one partner is left in the dark about the full truth of the other's life, but that doesn't necessarily keep them from truly knowing and loving them based on what they do know.
      No and I'm going to say because Sam's not Jack. Sam let's Pete lead the relationship right into places she doesn't want to go (as she discovers in Threads). Jack isn't going anywhere he doesn't want to go. Even with Kerry. He wanted to be there. Kerry didn't want to be in that kind of relationship because she wanted more than what he could offer.

      I do think that Sam convinced herself she was in love with Pete, but I would argue she was in love with the idea of Pete. In general, she was confused about who she was, what she really wanted, and what she thought she could or couldn't have.

      Originally posted by hedwig View Post
      Wouldn't her refusing to obey orders get her charged with insubordination or possibly being court martialed? Or should she have disobeyed regardless of that possibility when she so clearly disagreed with the orders?

      I doubt very much that Jack would reprimand her for disobeying him. But Bauer wouldn't have hesitated to charge her with something had she disobeyed him.
      The point is *she obeyed*. Yes she would have gotten into trouble, but the fact that she picked a job that requires such obedience...that's my point. Period. She did it. You always have a choice, no matter the consequences. That's what I'm trying to say.

      Comment


        Just a reminder that the party starts in about an hour!

        Comment


          Originally posted by Nynaeve506 View Post
          The point is *she obeyed*. Yes she would have gotten into trouble, but the fact that she picked a job that requires such obedience...that's my point. Period. She did it. You always have a choice, no matter the consequences. That's what I'm trying to say.
          Okay. I do understand that. A person always has a choice. Maybe I'm misunderstanding other parts of what you said. But I don't see how this automatically makes her a person who "sort of just...gives in." I have never gotten that impression of her from what I've seen throughout the series. Maybe we just each see her differently.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Nynaeve506 View Post
            No and I'm going to say because Sam's not Jack. Sam let's Pete lead the relationship right into places she doesn't want to go (as she discovers in Threads). Jack isn't going anywhere he doesn't want to go. Even with Kerry. He wanted to be there. Kerry didn't want to be in that kind of relationship because she wanted more than what he could offer.

            I do think that Sam convinced herself she was in love with Pete, but I would argue she was in love with the idea of Pete. In general, she was confused about who she was, what she really wanted, and what she thought she could or couldn't have.
            Hmm, I can't quite agree with that. Yes, in the end, Sam realizes that she doesn't want to marry Pete, but I don't think she was lead there against her will by any means. She's been down this road before, she knew where her decisions were leading her and she had plenty of opportunities to break it off with Pete before Threads.

            The only way I can rationale to myself Sam accepting Pete's proposal and coming within days of marrying him is if she did truly love him and see a future with him. I can't see her clinging to a relationship she's not fully invested in just because Jack's not available. She ultimately couldn't go through with it with Pete, and she had doubts and second guesses along the way, but IMHO she got to that point willingly, not passively.

            sigpic

            Comment


              Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post
              Hmm, I can't quite agree with that. Yes, in the end, Sam realizes that she doesn't want to marry Pete, but I don't think she was lead there against her will by any means. She's been down this road before, she knew where her decisions were leading her and she had plenty of opportunities to break it off with Pete before Threads.

              The only way I can rationale to myself Sam accepting Pete's proposal and coming within days of marrying him is if she did truly love him and see a future with him. I can't see her clinging to a relationship she's not fully invested in just because Jack's not available. She ultimately couldn't go through with it with Pete, and she had doubts and second guesses along the way, but IMHO she got to that point willingly, not passively.
              I think where it's being misunderstood is this idea that she's going against her will. I never said that. I said she *let* him lead. That's an important distinction. I'm sure Sam fully THOUGHT that's what she wanted - that it was what she was supposed to want - but I don't think it's ever TRULY what she wanted and she didn't comprehend that entirely until she was standing at the edge. I imagine similar with Jonas.

              Comment


                Pete knew Sam was out of his league so he had an inferior complex that's why he tried to overcompensate with buying her "the perfect house", proposing out of the blue

                Comment


                  Folks, believe it or not: I actually read every one your post and thus managed to catch up. And just in time for Heroes, too. There were actually a lot of things I wanted to comment on, but I forgot most of them. They may come to me at some point, though, so beware ;-)

                  So, my 2 cents on Chimera and Pete:

                  As opposed to many of you I actually liked the episode. I also liked the concept of Pete, and didn't mind its execution very much (ok, they could have cast someone hunkier, ...). Their relationship makes sense to me.

                  I agree with all the reasons you mentioned for her to begin this relationship. However, I think there's something else there: I think after Grace, she hasn't completely given up hope that her feelings for Jack are reciprocated, and now she's trying to get confirmation either way. When they talk in the elevator there would be absolutely no reason for her to tell him about her date, except if she was either bitter or wanted to provoke a reaction. And when he doesn't react, she is one step closer to believing that Jack has no interest in her anymore. Again, when she is pondering whether to accept the proposal. It's like:

                  Come on, do something, say something!

                  But he DOESN'T! Arrgh! (I'll save that for the Affinity discussion).

                  And only after this does she decide to really commit to Pete, because it seems that Jack has completely walked away from 'them'. And I think her being upset about Jacob mentioning 'picking flowers' in front of Jack in Threads is mainly about not wanting to open that can of worms again, since she has already made her decision.

                  I just need to add, that I absolutely love Sam/other because it generates sooo much angst and tension
                  sigpic

                  (I don’t know who made this gif but I’ve always loved this lil guy since I started hanging out here on GW back in the day. Happy to give credit!)

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Nynaeve506 View Post
                    I think where it's being misunderstood is this idea that she's going against her will. I never said that. I said she *let* him lead. That's an important distinction. I'm sure Sam fully THOUGHT that's what she wanted - that it was what she was supposed to want - but I don't think it's ever TRULY what she wanted and she didn't comprehend that entirely until she was standing at the edge. I imagine similar with Jonas.
                    I guess I'm just not getting the distinction between the two, since the definition 'true' seems rather contingent on how the relationship ends rather than the emotions felt during it. IMO, even though a relationship doesn't work out in the end that doesn't necessarily mean that it wasn't what its participants truly wanted while they were together. I'd imagine with Jonas that Sam did sincerely love him and wanted to marry him, but something apparently occurred to change her mind and she broke up with him. I feel it was a similar case with Pete, only this time we got to see some of the events that led her to ending the relationship.

                    And in terms of Sam letting Pete lead, I guess I still don't see it since she could have always said no to his proposal or simply ended the relationship at some earlier time, post-Heroes, post-Lost City, post-New Order, etc. Sure Pete was driving aspects of the relationship like asking her to marry him, but by saying 'yes' to me Sam was indicating that she did want the relationship to go where he wanted it to go at that moment.

                    Originally posted by Nefer View Post
                    Folks, believe it or not: I actually read every one your post and thus managed to catch up. And just in time for Heroes, too. There were actually a lot of things I wanted to comment on, but I forgot most of them. They may come to me at some point, though, so beware ;-)
                    Welcome to the thread and bravo, that's a lot of posts to get through.

                    And only after this does she decide to really commit to Pete, because it seems that Jack has completely walked away from 'them'. And I think her being upset about Jacob mentioning 'picking flowers' in front of Jack in Threads is mainly about not wanting to open that can of worms again, since she has already made her decision.
                    Hmm, I guess I've never seen Sam's situation as an either/or between Jack and Pete, I can't really Sam staying with Pete simply Jack is unavailable or is no longer interested in her. As such, from my perspective, when Sam stays with him it follows that that must be what she wants, and the same for when she breaks up with him. Jack and his feelings may underline or accent her actions in a way, but they don't drive them IMHO, esp since from what was shown in Threads Sam breaks up with Pete before she knows that Jack has broken up with Kerry.

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Nefer View Post
                      <snip>I agree with all the reasons you mentioned for her to begin this relationship. However, I think there's something else there: I think after Grace, she hasn't completely given up hope that her feelings for Jack are reciprocated, and now she's trying to get confirmation either way. When they talk in the elevator there would be absolutely no reason for her to tell him about her date, except if she was either bitter or wanted to provoke a reaction. And when he doesn't react, she is one step closer to believing that Jack has no interest in her anymore. Again, when she is pondering whether to accept the proposal. It's like:

                      Come on, do something, say something!

                      <snip>
                      Wow. All posts! That's a lot.

                      I agree with you that in Affinity, Sam showing Jack the ring is designed to get a reaction from Jack, but in the elevator scene in Chimera I don't think Sam *wants* to tell Jack. It's Jack who pushes her into the conversation by asking and continues to press her even when she says it's not serious. The elevator scene isn't Sam provoking a reaction but getting one - and one she didn't want at that - regardless.

                      On the Sam followed Pete thing...

                      I kind of see where both of you are coming from. Pete does "drive" his relationship with Sam in that he's the one pushing for the next level whether through romantic dinner dates to shift from dating to lovers, or with the proposal to shift from lovers to marriage.

                      I don't think this has anything to do with her military training. Yes, Sam is more likely to follow orders that she disagrees with than Jack but it's not blindly; she's stood up and argued her case when she's had to so I don't see this as relevant in her personal situation with Pete.

                      Pete drives the relationship because he wants to feel secure in it and Sam doesn't because she's usually satisfied with where they are at the point he pushes for change; he wants to bind her with a physical relationship, and later with a legal commitment of marriage. And this isn't a bad thing necessarily - if Sam reciprocates his feelings. The root of Pete's actions are to do with his need to feel loved and wanted.

                      The problem for me, is that each time Pete pushes Sam, she's not completely on the same page; there's an inequality between Pete wanting to move forward and Sam hesitating on whether this is what she really wants. For example, it's clear before the big romantic dinner date, that Sam really doesn't think it's all that serious; they're dating but not sexually involved. She is disconcerted by Pete's extended stay. She tells Jack it isn't serious.

                      But with the big romantic dinner date with the couple who have been together for years, Pete is declaring that this is serious for him and that he wants them to take it to the next level. Now Sam does have a choice. She can say 'no'; doesn't have to invite him into the house. So why does she agree? Is it just following where he leads? I don't think it is.

                      I think Sam makes her decision based on a complex number of elements coming together; one being the sociological pressure of dinner dates/expectations, one being her reaction to the long-married couple on the date and want to have that in her life; one being her wish to succeed in everything she does; one being her feelings for Pete - enjoying his company, liking him, finding him attractive, thinking maybe this could turn into something serious; and one being her thoughts and feelings on where she stands with Jack (that she loves him but he's not attainable, that he maybe only thinks of her as a friend - something that her discussion in the elevator maybe perpetuates; fear and disappointment).

                      Is it the right decision for her? Is she really ready to move to that next step? Well, that's arguable.
                      sigpic
                      Women of the Gate LJ Community.
                      My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

                      Comment


                        I guess I've never seen Sam's situation as an either/or between Jack and Pete, I can't really Sam staying with Pete simply Jack is unavailable or is no longer interested in her. As such, from my perspective, when Sam stays with him it follows that that must be what she wants, and the same for when she breaks up with him. Jack and his feelings may underline or accent her actions in a way, but they don't drive them IMHO, esp since from what was shown in Threads Sam breaks up with Pete before she knows that Jack has broken up with Kerry.
                        Of course she is not staying with Pete 'simply' because Jack's not available, but I do believe she knows even then, that if she had the choice, Jack would be the one. As a couple of people already mentioned, it's not one or two reasons that lead to her engagement, but many different things. Yes, she loves Pete, and I do think she wants to marry him. I also don't think that her relationship with Pete is actually affected in any way by her feelings for Jack, however, before she makes this commitment,she wants to be sure that it's over between them. In 'Grace' didn't she say something to the extent of "I'm very uncertain about your feelings for me, and I wish I knew if you still felt the same way?" to hallucination-Jack (sorry, didn't have the time to actually rewatch)? In my humble opinion, that's what she's doing (maybe subconsciously) in Chimera and Affinity, checking if he really is 'unattainable'.

                        That she realizes later on, that being married to Pete is NOT what she wants at all is a totally different discussion, and has actually nothing (or very little) to do with Jack. So we agree there EvenStar.

                        Woo, I just realized it's VERY difficult to express yourself clearly on such matters. I already rewrote this passage alone three times!

                        I also don't really see the 'letting Pete lead argument', sorry. I think that he WANTS to lead, and she maybe goes along with it for a moment and when she sees he's not going in the direction she wants to, she breaks it off. And I think it was the same with Jonas. Can't image that their relationship lasted that long before she had enough.
                        ... aaaand what Rachel said about that in the previous post. Agreed!

                        Wow. All posts! That's a lot.
                        Well, more or less. As I already said, there are so many different aspects of her life coming into play here, and all reasons given do make sense to me. Though some more than others

                        I agree with you that in Affinity, Sam showing Jack the ring is designed to get a reaction from Jack, but in the elevator scene in Chimera I don't think Sam *wants* to tell Jack. It's Jack who pushes her into the conversation by asking and continues to press her even when she says it's not serious. The elevator scene isn't Sam provoking a reaction but getting one - and one she didn't want at that - regardless.
                        True, but I still think she could have wormed her way out of this conversation without giving him any information. As far as I remember, he didn't know anything about this date prior to their conversation, and it's an oddly personal thing for them to talk about.

                        Anyway I lurve the drama ensuing
                        sigpic

                        (I don’t know who made this gif but I’ve always loved this lil guy since I started hanging out here on GW back in the day. Happy to give credit!)

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                          On the Sam followed Pete thing...

                          I kind of see where both of you are coming from. Pete does "drive" his relationship with Sam in that he's the one pushing for the next level whether through romantic dinner dates to shift from dating to lovers, or with the proposal to shift from lovers to marriage.

                          I don't think this has anything to do with her military training. Yes, Sam is more likely to follow orders that she disagrees with than Jack but it's not blindly; she's stood up and argued her case when she's had to so I don't see this as relevant in her personal situation with Pete.

                          Pete drives the relationship because he wants to feel secure in it and Sam doesn't because she's usually satisfied with where they are at the point he pushes for change; he wants to bind her with a physical relationship, and later with a legal commitment of marriage. And this isn't a bad thing necessarily - if Sam reciprocates his feelings. The root of Pete's actions are to do with his need to feel loved and wanted.

                          The problem for me, is that each time Pete pushes Sam, she's not completely on the same page; there's an inequality between Pete wanting to move forward and Sam hesitating on whether this is what she really wants. For example, it's clear before the big romantic dinner date, that Sam really doesn't think it's all that serious; they're dating but not sexually involved. She is disconcerted by Pete's extended stay. She tells Jack it isn't serious.

                          But with the big romantic dinner date with the couple who have been together for years, Pete is declaring that this is serious for him and that he wants them to take it to the next level. Now Sam does have a choice. She can say 'no'; doesn't have to invite him into the house. So why does she agree? Is it just following where he leads? I don't think it is.
                          I think people are misunderstanding my position Just because I highlight an aspect doesn't mean I think it's "just" because of that reason. I don't think she went along with Pete "just" because she's following. I'm saying she has a tendency to follow or relinquish control in relationships (and since I was misunderstood before, it's not a matter of anyone making her do what she doesn't want to do.). I see her as being far more passive than she should be, which culminates in her waking up one day and realizing "What the hell am I doing?"

                          Additionally, I don't think Pete was what she ever truly wanted. I don't think the emotion was there. I get the distinct impression that she was talking herself into this relationship. Not that she didn't enjoy herself. Not that she didn't have a great time. The ultimate seriousness of the relationship she talked herself into. She may have been on board with the initial start but by Affinity she wasn't sure at all. I'm not saying she wasn't sure because of Jack. She just wasn't sure period. I'm of the mindset that she THOUGHT Pete was offering what she wanted. But she didn't really want that, but what she did want, she couldn't reconcile with what she perceived as what she SHOULD want.

                          Again, lest anyone think I'm attributing everything to one aspect I'm discussing, I'm not. People are messy and complicated. There are many, many layers, but I have a toddler and so my posts have to be concise.

                          Comment



                            Banner by Luvnjack

                            Death Knell

                            Synopsis (long!)

                            Death Knell falls within the long running Tok’ra/Jaffa storyline and deliberately references Allegiance from the previous season to remind us of this. We open with a scene between Jacob and Sam which hints at some of the tension in Jacob and Sam’s current relationship – something we’ll look at again in the analysis. Within a couple of minutes the episode is thrown into full gear as the base alarm goes off a Lieutenant comes to escort Jacob and Sam to the BETA site.

                            After the credit sequence we jump straight back to the SGC where 20 minutes have passed and the team along with General Hammond is preparing to send a MALP to the alpha site. Their concern for Sam is apparent straight away with a prolonged shot on Jack’s face before asking how many people got out. The MALP is sent but comes out of the gate on its side. The team quickly establish that the gate has been knocked over and the event horizon has excavated a cavity underneath. They are clearly desperate to get there, despite concerns from General Hammond that the DHD might also have been taken out.

                            Jack, Daniel and Teal’c gate to the planet which is a complete wreck – smoke, fires and rubble are everywhere. They deduce that the leader of the alpha site - Colonel Riley has activated the self-destruct mechanism. Things look bleak for any survivors. SG-3 gate in after as back-up and all go off in search of survivors. There’s a lovely moment for the team dynamic here where Colonel XX says “Who could have survived this” Jack’s reaction is almost sad, whilst Teal’c gives the man the evils. In the course of recon, SG-1 discover the armour of one of Anubis’ drones suggesting they may not be alone. SG-3 discover a small group of survivors giving SG-1 some hope and whilst concerned for the other survivors, Jack almost immediately asks “Major Carter with them?” Sadly she is not. General Hammond sends in more reinforcements along with medical supplies for the wounded. He and Jack discuss the fact that he cannot send any more resources but that SG-1 will continue looking.

                            The team come across Jacob, lying under a tree with serious injuries. He has the weapon he and Sam developed which he immediately gives to Jack, telling him Sam has a fully charged power pack if they can find her but he’s not sure if she’s still alive. The entire rescue team return to the SGC minus Jack and Teal’c who remain to look for Sam. Hammond questions Jacob as to how Anubis got the location of the Alpha site and discuss with Daniel how to defeat the drone still on the planet – a big bang. Hammond asks Siler to prepare a UAV with missile specs. Hammond questions the survivors, clearly suspecting that there is a spy on the base.

                            Jack and Teal’c find footprints suggesting Sam and a Drone have been in the area. Cut back to Daniel and Jacob, the former is asking the latter what happened in the evacuation. Finally, we get some information as to what might have happened to Sam. A drone heads directly for the room where they have been experimenting with the weapon and although not fully charged, it seems to take him down. Jacob tells how they run towards the Stargate but it has been hit and both run towards the hills. The drones know how important the weapon is, and are chasing Sam because of it. Hammond begins to question the Jaffa and Tok’ra and the cracks in the alliance become obvious.

                            Finally, at 18 minutes into the episode we see Sam! She is clearly very badly injured and hiding from the drone that is chasing her, so far with success. Cut back to the SGC where Hammond tells Jacob he has a lot of faith in Sam and that she will be ok. The Jaffa who had been visiting the Beta site to work out if one of their own had been compromised returns to the SGC. It would appear the leak came from the Jaffa. There is tension as he accuses Jacob of having a secret spy in Oluchan’s ranks. We start to get a sense that Jacob may be out of the loop with the Tok’ra somewhat as he has no idea about it.

                            Back to Sam, still running from the drone and in a huge amount of pain. Through some clever camera trickery we think the drone is just about to catch up with her but no, it’s another SG team member who is already dead. Hammond is still questioning the Jaffa and Tok’ra but now the light falls on the other side, as perhaps it is their secret spy who has been compromised. Back to the planet where Sam has another run in with the drone, this time at a water hole. Luckily she manages to escape once again. Back to the SGC where Jacob has a run in with the Delac – his true loyalties to the Tok’ra are in question due to his ties with the Tau’ri. He was not informed of the secret spy because of this. Jacob wants to go to the planet and look for Sam but Hammond tells him he is needed as a liaison between the Jaffa and Tok’ra as the alliance is falling apart. Back on the planet, Sam spots the UAV but before she can signal it is shot down by the drone. Luckily Jack and Teal’c are in the same area and head towards the crash site.

                            Jacob attempts to talk the Jaffa round, sadly to no avail and by the end of the episode the alliance has been dissolved. Back at the alpha site planet, Sam locates the downed UAV and manages to salvage the missiles from it, creating a trap for the drone. She fires it at the drone and hearing the explosion, Jack and Teal’c run to the area. Thinking she’s succeeded, Sam goes to the pile of rubble and rests but the drone rises next to her and is just about to shoot when Teal’c fires grenades at him. Sam runs back to the UAV where Jack meets her. He begins to ask for the power pack but she just thrusts it at him. Jack shoots and the drone is killed. Teal’c goes to cover him and Jack stops for a moment to check Sam is ok. He sits next to her, offering her comfort for her ordeal. Back in the SGC the alliance is dissolved even after an impassioned speech by Daniel. Jacob visits Sam in the infirmary telling her he may not be in her life for a while as he must reconnect with the Tok’ra and re-establish their trust. Jacob walks out of the door and out of her life, for a little while, and the episode ends quietly.

                            Analysis
                            Death Knell is a classic episode from the later seasons of the franchise – excellent writing which combines two storylines – one character development and one an important story arc.

                            The decision to not show Sam after the pre-credit sequence until almost halfway the episode was fantastic. The suspense and drama created simply in the other characters reactions was great and we get some real character development in this ep as a result. Despite getting her ass kicked, it’s a real kick-ass episode for Sam! Proving how tough and resourceful the character is, she runs and hides from the drone with all her injuries and then manages to salvage a downed UAV into a missile. It’s a real interesting run of 3 episodes – Grace, Chimera and Death Knell which change the Sam character hugely. Very brave angle for the writers to take but I think they pull it off very well.

                            What’s also interesting about this episode is that it plays a huge part in the storyline for the Tok’ra/Jaffa alliance, or lack thereof. Tying it in with the Sam storyline though means that this huge event is tackled quietly and subtly and whilst we don’t necessarily think about it in the short term, we know it’s going to play a huge part later on.

                            Jacob/Sam and Pete

                            Watching the beginnings of this episode, and considering the follow-on from the previous ep, Chimera, I find some underlying hints for the issues to come with Sam and Pete in her brief conversation with her father. Their relationship is a little strained and whilst Jacob makes out that this is because his system from the previous alpha site has been compromised, I find it interesting that we jump straight to IMO the crux of the problem - “We never talk any more Sam”. Sam brushes this off and we jump straight into the rest of the episode, but I’d like to pause for a moment and consider what this could mean. I would propose that Sam still has some concerns about the longevity of her relationship with Pete, and subconsciously, is beginning to bury those concerns. In Sam’s mind – burying things such as her feelings towards Jack – is the only way to deal with things rather than confront them head on. An issue she slowly begins to deal with towards the end of Season 8. I would also suggest that Jacob’s declaration is a father’s way of saying he senses something is going on with her and would like to help. Sadly of course, he is drawn away by the continuing struggles of the war with the Goa’uld. Perhaps if he could have stayed a more prominent feature in Sam’s life for the next year, her relationship with Pete may not have progressed to the stage it did.

                            Implications for Sam/Jack
                            Whilst this is, in effect, a Sam episode I would propose that the implications for their relationship development come almost totally from Jack and his reaction to her being lost:

                            Shot on Jack’s face after the credit sequence – prolonged which shows his concern for Sam. At the end of the dialogue between the team and Hammond Jack cuts in with “we’ll be fine Sir”, almost interrupting the rest of the conversation. Clearly as a Colonel and 2IC of the SGC he is desperate to get there to rescue as many of his men as possible, but also to rescue Sam.

                            When SG-3 gate to the planet their leader says “Who could have survived this” in response to being ordered by Jack to go look for survivors. I love the way Jack’s reactions are played by RDA in this ep – he snaps his head back up and is silent for a moment, from a shippers’ mind obviously contemplating the worst before slipping back into Colonel Jack mode.

                            The exchange between Hammond and Jack is full of subtext – Hammond cannot send any more resources after the medical supplies and teams have gone through to look after the current group of survivors. IMO he knows how desperate Jack is to find Sam and is trying to support him in any way he can. Jack in turn understands what he is saying but will never give up.

                            When they find Jacob there seems to be a glimmer of hope that Sam may not be totally out of reach. But as it becomes clear that not even Jacob knows if his daughter is alive, there is a shot of concern from each. Daniel and Teal’c appear to be stoic and quite, whilst Jack seems quite agitated.

                            As Jack finds Sam and takes out the supersoldier, he stops to check she is ok, asking if she wants to get up. Sam needs to take a minute and Jack sits down next to her. A lot has been made of this, with AT herself saying she didn’t want people to think Sam was being girly, but merely a soldier receiving comfort from another soldier. Whilst I think this is true, what I find most interesting about this bit is Jack’s face before he says “C’mere”. You can see the emotions being played out in his features – which is something that does not happen very often. He jumps from relief as he is standing, to concern, to almost fighting with himself about letting both their guards down and offering her comfort. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think it’s been almost a year since Metamorphosis when he almost lost her to Nirrti’s device. Consider also how quickly it happens again in Heroes.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Sarai View Post
                              As Jack finds Sam and takes out the supersoldier, he stops to check she is ok, asking if she wants to get up. Sam needs to take a minute and Jack sits down next to her. A lot has been made of this, with AT herself saying she didn’t want people to think Sam was being girly, but merely a soldier receiving comfort from another soldier. Whilst I think this is true, what I find most interesting about this bit is Jack’s face before he says “C’mere”. You can see the emotions being played out in his features – which is something that does not happen very often. He jumps from relief as he is standing, to concern, to almost fighting with himself about letting both their guards down and offering her comfort. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think it’s been almost a year since Metamorphosis when he almost lost her to Nirrti’s device. Consider also how quickly it happens again in Heroes.
                              Great review Sarai! I agree that what AT said about Sam not being girly, and that this moment actually isn't really about Sam at all, but rather Jack's reaction to her, and to almost losing her.
                              Plus as you say this is a real Sam kick-ass in this ep, love it
                              sigpicMy Fanfic

                              Comment


                                I'm saying she has a tendency to follow or relinquish control in relationships (and since I was misunderstood before, it's not a matter of anyone making her do what she doesn't want to do.). I see her as being far more passive than she should be, which culminates in her waking up one day and realizing "What the hell am I doing?"
                                As a concept that makes sense. But I still wouldn't attribute this character trait to Sam or draw the conclusion that she is passive. If she was I don't think she would have been as consequent about breaking up with Pete. And I agree that she would never do anything she absolutely didn't want to do. Maybe a different way of phrasing it could be that overall she was not as interested/invested, and therefor a little bit 'whatever' about things.
                                But I guess that's a matter of definition here and we actually mean the same thing . It's so rewarding to hear all those different opinions from you guys. Some things I read hear I would never have come up with by myself!

                                Death Knell

                                Favourite line: We'll jump off that bridge when we come to it.
                                That's actually my motto now

                                I really enjoyed this episode. There was quite a bit of suspense there, even if we already know that Sam's going to be fine. And I agree that Sam allowing herself to be comforted by Jack as not girly. At least not too girly . She wasn't even reaching for him herself, it was Jack who initiated it, as Aveo already said.

                                I remember being upset about the fact that defeating the super soldiers became so easy at some point. As a result the super soldier in this episode appears way less scary now than it used to. Ah, well ...

                                a propos scary
                                I remember a discussion on this thread a while back about the un-scrariness of Anubis as opposed to bone-chilling Baal. I have to say that I never found the Goa'Uld villians on the show to be particularly scary. I think the last time I was actually emotionally spooked by a Goa'Uld was Ra in the movie (that being one of the two tiny things I like better about the movie)!

                                P.S. unfortunately I didn't read your summary Sarai (as you said yourself, long!), but I'm sure it was fab.
                                sigpic

                                (I don’t know who made this gif but I’ve always loved this lil guy since I started hanging out here on GW back in the day. Happy to give credit!)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X