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    Thank you! :: puts Chimera on her list to watch later this week ::

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      Hello, all! Hope this finds everyone well.

      The holidays are rapidly approaching, which means celebrations are in store on Gateworld. Here's your official invitation to the first one (And please let hlndncr know what a great job she did on the art work!):

      The invite:


      The sig:


      The avatar:


      Please feel free to use the sig and avatar between now and the celebration!

      Hugs to all!

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        I tried to post this question the night GW crashed (again). Is there someone/someplace where just the wonderful ep reviews are kept? I'd like to read them all but don't have time to wade through 170-ish pages of additional commentary (even as good as it all is, truly).

        I'm looking to just read the synopses (yes, that's synopsis pluralized).

        Thx,
        P.
        Pol My Blog | My Fanfic | My FaceBook__ Sam: "Jack...please."

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          Originally posted by Pol View Post
          I tried to post this question the night GW crashed (again). Is there someone/someplace where just the wonderful ep reviews are kept? I'd like to read them all but don't have time to wade through 170-ish pages of additional commentary (even as good as it all is, truly).

          I'm looking to just read the synopses (yes, that's synopsis pluralized).

          Thx,
          P.
          I don't think there is anyplace where the reviews are all together, but each review begins with a banner; so they are fairly easy to pick out from the general discussion. It still takes a little sifting, but it's probably not as time consuming as you might at first think.

          EDIT: Here's a link to the first reveiw to get you started: Stragate: The Movie and Children of the Gods.
          Last edited by hlndncr; November 15, 2010, 09:26 AM.

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            Banner by LadyGalaxyJ

            Fallout

            Summary

            Jonas arrives back at the SGC. His planet, now called Langara, has researched the data on the crystal found back in Homecoming and realised that the naquadria is not a naturally occuring element but the result of the Goa'uld experimenting with ordinary naquadah. They've discovered a new seam of conversion which if it reaches the planet's molten core will blow up Kelowna.

            SG1 dive into help. Sam heads back with Jonas to provide her expertise there while Jack, Teal'c and Daniel along with General Hammond play host to the Langaran officials to try and help them come to some kind of diplomatic agreement on how to handle the crisis given that it's a planet killer, something the visiting diplomats don't seem to initially appreciate.

            Sam meets Kianna who clearly has a thing for Jonas. Sam postulates the theory that the conversion takes much less time than supposed and an earthquake reveals new information that they're even more screwed than they initially thought. And the Kelownans were responsible for the second conversion with their bomb.

            As the Langara diplomats argue over evacuation and whose fault it all is, Jack loses his cool and decides to opt out of the meetings as does Teal'c leaving Daniel alone to carry the diplomatic burden.

            In the meantime, handily, Jonas has been building a drilling rocketship that has been modified and with Sam's help will be able to use to get to the new seam and divert it using a bomb. Kianna objects to Jonas about Sam's involvement but he tells her not worry and they kiss; she's his girlfriend. Which is unfortunate because Sam realises that Kianna has a Goa'uld passenger working for Ba'al.

            However, they need Kianna to make the drill thing work so she goes along on the mission along with Teal'c who is there to make sure she behaves. As everyone wonders about how things are going back at the SGC, things inevitably go wrong on the mission. The Goa'uld tells Jonas that she is the one with whom he's had the relationship but he's not all that interested. They drill down but don't get far enough and have to use Tok'ra crystals the rest of the way but the only person who can go out of the ship and set everything up is the Goa'uld. She tells them she hasn't informed Ba'al of the naquadria yet and heads off on her mission.

            Back at the SGC, even Daniel is getting frustrated with the Langarans. Jack tells them the deal is off; no relocation to anywhere because they're idiots.

            On Langara, the Goa'uld barely makes it back to the drill but Jonas won't leave without her. When she's finally back on board, she asks Jonas why and he says it's because she held up her end. The mission works and they get back to the surface.

            Daniel meets up with Jonas in the gateroom of the SGC and they exchange commisserations over dealing with the Langaran officials. Kianna appears with Sam. The Goa'uld died and let her live. Kianna and Jonas head back to Langara.

            Favourite Scene
            Sam teasing Jonas over Kianna.

            Favourite Quote
            KIANNA: If you begin your ascent now, you may have enough power to reach the surface.
            SAM: We're not leaving you behind.
            KIANNA: You have no choice. If the power drops below 50%, you will not even be able to restart the engines. I am already dead, if you wait, you die, too.
            JONAS: This is Jonas. There's still time left. Start back immediately.
            KIANNA: If you're doing this out of concern for the host, you need not bother. The body is already severely damaged. Even if we make it back, I may not be able to keep her alive.
            JONAS: Listen to me, we're not going without you, so shut up and get moving.

            Discussion - Generally
            Not a favourite episode at all. It's just very static, unfunny and boring. I'm also not fond of it for basically running roughshod all over Jack's S6 diplomacy development in an attempt to be funny by having him (a) walk out on the discussions and (b) tell the Langarans they're no longer interested in helping them save their people.

            Jonas - we see here a Jonas that is the sum of his Kelownan roots and his SG1 experience. He's action oriented, part of the rescue and driven in a way that the Jonas we meet in Meridian isn't. Yet physically he's much more Kelownan in appearance and obviously dress. We see he's begun a relationship with Kianna and, apart from the imminent doom and having to deal with the Langaran officials, he seems happy. But we also see his guilt (over the bomb and Anubis finding Kelowna), and that there are lessons he's learned with SG1, being open to their input and knowledge; the not leaving anyone behind.

            While this story had the potential to lessen the abrupt departure of Jonas and provides evidence that he's staying in touch and still considered an ally, I would have liked another Jonas story to give him a better send-off. Although he gets to save the planet, he doesn't exactly get the girl and has to reconcile that he's spent all that time in a relationship with a Goa'uld.

            Sam and Jack

            They only actually share one scene - the briefing one at the beginning. There's a nice exchange between them when he says 'I assume this makes sense to you' and she replies 'Actually, no' but that's it. No other scene at all - not even one of concern waiting for news.

            There is, however, a lot of nice allusions back to ITLOD in the Jonas and Kianna relationship, namely when Kianna is revealed as the Goa'uld and when Kianna, the host, appears to speak, Sam sating that they know the Goa'uld try to trick them like that and not to believe it. Is this grist for the ITLOD Jolinar Camp who say it was Jolinar who said 'Please Jack!' or is the fact that Sam names the Goa'uld as playing that trick evidence that as Jolinar was Tok'ra that she did let Sam speak and thus providing evidence for the ITLOD Sam Camp who say it was Sam who said 'Please Jack!'

            Furthermore, Jonas won't leave Kianna behind so another nice allusion to D&C, not leaving someone you love behind.

            Other than that, I might put forward that seeing Jonas dating (even if the relationship comes to a halt with the revelation that she's a Goa'uld and I don't honestly believe that Kianna The Host and Jonas survive that), might reinforce Sam's decision to explore a personal relationship and tip her into accepting that blind date with a certain cop...
            Last edited by Rachel500; November 15, 2010, 01:22 PM.
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              Nice job on the review!

              This isn't my favorite episode in the world by any stretch of the imagination, but one of the parts that I liked was Jack walking out of negotiating. I intensely disliked the Langarans, and I couldn't have kept trying, either. My fave line in the show is "That's what you get for dicking around." That makes me laugh every time.
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                I actually enjoyed the Jack dealing with the diplomat scenes - I see it more as a punctuation. They've been dealing with the Langarans for ages and they keep squabbling like small children - now the fate of their planet is at stake and they make unreasonable demands and impose themselves on Earth.

                Good riddance, let them die, I say.

                On another note, the waiting around to save the Goa'uld seems noble but...I think this is one of those "suspension of belief" in the SG-1 universe where everything works out in the end. Frankly the wiser, smarter decision would have been to say "Okay! Enjoy the center of the planet for us!" and then hightail it all the way back to the surface (oh darn, the Goa'uld died...).

                Good connection to ITLOD Rachel Great review.

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                  Originally posted by Nynaeve506 View Post
                  I actually enjoyed the Jack dealing with the diplomat scenes - I see it more as a punctuation. They've been dealing with the Langarans for ages and they keep squabbling like small children - now the fate of their planet is at stake and they make unreasonable demands and impose themselves on Earth.

                  Good riddance, let them die, I say.

                  On another note, the waiting around to save the Goa'uld seems noble but...I think this is one of those "suspension of belief" in the SG-1 universe where everything works out in the end. Frankly the wiser, smarter decision would have been to say "Okay! Enjoy the center of the planet for us!" and then hightail it all the way back to the surface (oh darn, the Goa'uld died...).

                  Good connection to ITLOD Rachel Great review.
                  The goa'uld, yes. But what about the host (Kiana Cyr). As varying goa'uld keep saying when threatened with being killed, "What about the host?"

                  My only other comment is that I loved the little scene where Jonas is telling Sam about the engines in the digger, and Sam's eyes light up (like a kid in a candy store?) and she asks him if she can go look at them.

                  Comment


                    I was looking for some inspiration while in the middle of writing a story and happened upon a poem quoted by Joseph Campbell
                    "...through the eyes love attains the heart" Guiraut De Borneilh (ca.. 1138 - 1200)
                    And I thought of the looks between Sam and Jack in Evolution.

                    All of the chapter reminded me of my favorite couple.
                    Spoiler:

                    The discussion that followed was basically of the Middle ages and the time of the troubadours.
                    It mentioned lust or Eros - a biological urge, more impersonal than love.
                    To love (not lust) you must know the person and open yourself up to pain. Re Tristan and Isolde -his love is bigger than pain and death, and he would choose them for loving her, not necessarily having her.
                    The woman had little control who she married but controlled what the man, who may be infatuated with her, was allowed to do.
                    There were rule of society - if you just follow your "bliss" as Campbell puts it there could be anarchy and no institution could exist. There is that head and heart tension. The individual vs society or institutions.
                    Now a woman in that society needed to follow the decorum of the time - not alone with a potential lover.
                    She had control and could make demands. If she demanded too must - risk of death in duels or jousts she was 'sauvage' a savage the same if she asked too little of him. But without these test she does not know him. And he cannot prove himself to her.

                    I could go on and on but the laundry is calling.

                    I didn't see the need to keep plugging in Jack and Sam saga but I see it here everywhere!.


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                      Nice Job on the Review Rachel. I agree that Fallout is definitely not a favorite episode.

                      Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                      Discussion - Generally
                      Not a favourite episode at all. It's just very static, unfunny and boring. I'm also not fond of it for basically running roughshod all over Jack's S6 diplomacy development in an attempt to be funny by having him (a) walk out on the discussions and (b) tell the Langarans they're no longer interested in helping them save their people.
                      This episode is probably the worst example of how TPTB dealt with RDA's reduced schedule in S7. I would have prefered to see him shot in the arm again than have him storm out of a negotiation in a tempertantrum. And I'm supposed to believe that his CO would let him just opt out of the rest of the negotiations, the rescue mission on the planet (after the earthquake), and protecting his team who are confronting and working with a goa'uld?!! Yeah, right! And like Jack would let Sam go to Kelowna alone after all the bad luck they've had their! I just don't buy it at all!

                      They did have a scene with Sam reporting on SG teams (including Dr. Faiser) delivering aid and assistance on the planet. She could have stated that Jack was in charge of those teams and I would have bought that. And how hard would a couple of scenes with him on the planet been? It was all filmed on a sound stage (no location shoot). They could have handled the RDA issue so much better and not done so much damage to Jack's character.

                      /RANT

                      Jonas - we see here a Jonas that is the sum of his Kelownan roots and his SG1 experience. He's action oriented, part of the rescue and driven in a way that the Jonas we meet in Meridian isn't. Yet physically he's much more Kelownan in appearance and obviously dress. We see he's begun a relationship with Kianna and, apart from the imminent doom and having to deal with the Langaran officials, he seems happy. But we also see his guilt (over the bomb and Anubis finding Kelowna), and that there are lessons he's learned with SG1, being open to their input and knowledge; the not leaving anyone behind.

                      While this story had the potential to lessen the abrupt departure of Jonas and provides evidence that he's staying in touch and still considered an ally, I would have liked another Jonas story to give him a better send-off. Although he gets to save the planet, he doesn't exactly get the girl and has to reconcile that he's spent all that time in a relationship with a Goa'uld.
                      I can't say I was crazy about Jonas' look and I thought it was really funny that he and his girlfriend had the exact same hairstyle.

                      I also was surprised that the host survived. They made it out to seem hopeless and I think it would have been a better ending. I don't have a problem that they waited for the goa'uld even though it was a risk to them. We established in Serpent's Song that a part of our ethics (that sets apart from the goa'uld and even allies like the Jaffa and Tok'ra) is that we will show compassion and risk our lives for even our greatest enemies. But I think the ending would have had more impact if it was ultimately a hopeless cause and the host couldn't be saved.

                      Sam and Jack

                      They only actually share one scene - the briefing one at the beginning. There's a nice exchange between them when he says 'I assume this makes sense to you' and she replies 'Actually, no' but that's it. No other scene at all - not even one of concern waiting for news.

                      There is, however, a lot of nice allusions back to ITLOD in the Jonas and Kianna relationship, namely when Kianna is revealed as the Goa'uld and when Kianna, the host, appears to speak, Sam sating that they know the Goa'uld try to trick them like that and not to believe it. Is this grist for the ITLOD Jolinar Camp who say it was Jolinar who said 'Please Jack!' or is the fact that Sam names the Goa'uld as playing that trick evidence that as Jolinar was Tok'ra that she did let Sam speak and thus providing evidence for the ITLOD Sam Camp who say it was Sam who said 'Please Jack!'

                      Furthermore, Jonas won't leave Kianna behind so another nice allusion to D&C, not leaving someone you love behind.

                      Other than that, I might put forward that seeing Jonas dating (even if the relationship comes to a halt with the revelation that she's a Goa'uld and I don't honestly believe that Kianna The Host and Jonas survive that), might reinforce Sam's decision to explore a personal relationship and tip her into accepting that blind date with a certain cop...
                      Wow, I have to say that's a lot more shippiness than I could have found. Thanks for that analysis. Some very interesting comparisons.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                        Nice Job on the Review Rachel. I agree that Fallout is definitely not a favorite episode.



                        This episode is probably the worst example of how TPTB dealt with RDA's reduced schedule in S7. I would have prefered to see him shot in the arm again than have him storm out of a negotiation in a tempertantrum. And I'm supposed to believe that his CO would let him just opt out of the rest of the negotiations, the rescue mission on the planet (after the earthquake), and protecting his team who are confronting and working with a goa'uld?!! Yeah, right! And like Jack would let Sam go to Kelowna alone after all the bad luck they've had their! I just don't buy it at all!

                        They did have a scene with Sam reporting on SG teams (including Dr. Faiser) delivering aid and assistance on the planet. She could have stated that Jack was in charge of those teams and I would have bought that. And how hard would a couple of scenes with him on the planet been? It was all filmed on a sound stage (no location shoot). They could have handled the RDA issue so much better and not done so much damage to Jack's character.
                        We can blame it all on Corin Nemec, since he wrote the episode. Or, at least, in the credits it said "Story by Corin Nemec". It made me wonder if he was asked to write it that way or if it was how Jonas perceived the individuals of the team.

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                          Originally posted by hedwig View Post
                          We can blame it all on Corin Nemec, since he wrote the episode. Or, at least, in the credits it said "Story by Corin Nemec". It made me wonder if he was asked to write it that way or if it was how Jonas perceived the individuals of the team.
                          Well it was Joe and Paul who wrote the Teleplay. The story credit means that the main idea for the plot was Corin's; so he probably had very little to do with specific character decisions like how to get RDA out of most of the scenes. And even if he did have some input, Joe and Paul were ultimately responsible for the script and they could have done better, IMHO.

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                            When I saw this episode, back in the day, I thought (or hoped) the title would signify possible "Fallout" from Grace... at least a little angsty moment with Sam/Jack. Was so upset there was hardly anything with them!

                            Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                            They did have a scene with Sam reporting on SG teams (including Dr. Faiser) delivering aid and assistance on the planet. She could have stated that Jack was in charge of those teams and I would have bought that. And how hard would a couple of scenes with him on the planet been? It was all filmed on a sound stage (no location shoot). They could have handled the RDA issue so much better and not done so much damage to Jack's character.
                            I thought, when I re-watched this, that it was interesting that Sam took the time to mention the fact that Janet was out in the field, even though we don't see her. I always thought it odd when Janet went out with them in Heroes, because I don't recall Janet going out in the field much. She is the Chief Medical Officer, after all, not a field medic. And here, a few episodes before she is killed, they mention the fact that she is out on this mission... foreshadowing, perhaps?

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                              Originally posted by Lucycat View Post
                              When I saw this episode, back in the day, I thought (or hoped) the title would signify possible "Fallout" from Grace... at least a little angsty moment with Sam/Jack. Was so upset there was hardly anything with them!



                              I thought, when I re-watched this, that it was interesting that Sam took the time to mention the fact that Janet was out in the field, even though we don't see her. I always thought it odd when Janet went out with them in Heroes, because I don't recall Janet going out in the field much. She is the Chief Medical Officer, after all, not a field medic. And here, a few episodes before she is killed, they mention the fact that she is out on this mission... foreshadowing, perhaps?
                              Although it does seem odd that as CMO, Janet would "go out in the field", she did so in several episodes:

                              Singularity - to Hanka
                              Past and Present - to the planet where everybody lost their memories
                              Small Victories - to the site where the Russian sub had been brought; where she treated Teal'c's injuries
                              The Curse - loved her getting to be part of the team in this episode
                              Frozen - never could figure out why she and SG1 needed to go to Antarctica
                              Allegiance - she was there treating the injured Jaffa/Tok'ra
                              Lifeboat - she goes to the Stromos to help get the survivors removed from Daniel
                              Fallout - though we didn't see her
                              Heroes -

                              (*did I miss any?*)
                              Last edited by hedwig; November 18, 2010, 06:04 PM.

                              Comment


                                Summary:

                                Sarah/Osiris visits Daniel in his dreams. Sam, meanwhile, starts a relationship with a cop name Pete Shanahan. Hilarity ensues.


                                Analysis:

                                I want to take a second to first focus on Daniel. In general, he tends to get pushed to the back when we talk about this episode (because he's neither Jack nor Sam). Truthfully though, this story is about him - his time ascended, his relationship with Sarah - and it propels the entire story arc forward. In general, I don't find Daniel a very in-depth character. This is one of those rare times where we get something MORE from him. Interestingly enough, in the end, he chooses knowledge over Sarah...which is a flip flop from his desire to save Sha're. His decision demonstrates how detached he is (and I think gives weight to his statement in "Unending" about how he had only just gotten past the death of his wife).

                                Moving on, however, to the point of our discussion - Sam/Jack.

                                Which means I have to talk about Sam/Pete. Brace yourselves.

                                First - it's just amazing to watch Sam be a *woman*. She's feminine, soft, and totally enamored. She flirts and accepts with such grace. I thought AT was just absolutely fabulous.

                                Then there's Pete. I like the concept of Pete. Throughout the episode there are flashes of two people, attracted to each other, and having a great time. I blame the writers for poor character creation and to be honest, David deLuise didn't do it for me. He was cute as the jokster but his romantic face made me think he was eying a cheeseburger.

                                Beyond that, given Sam's history for choosing men, Pete seems like a dreamboat. Jonas was probably controlling or at the very least had a temper. Pete exhibits many of the same tendencies. Inability to accept that Sam does something he doesn't know about to the point of following her. Pouting when she refuses to tell him.

                                I imagine that Sam's reaction to Pete is very similar to how she reacted to Jonas. When she had the gun trained on him, she couldn't shoot him. To some extent, she gives the men in her life control over her in what maybe an attempt to keep from losing them. She also shows compulsory bad character judgment. If she weren't doing top secret work, Pete would have probably been tolerable as a mate - a little insecure, a little picky, but manageable. In an extreme situation, however, his negative attributes are multiplied.

                                Over all, though, I don't see him as a horrible person. I don't think he would have abused her in any way. While he maybe manipulative in some fashion, I don't think he's aware he's being manipulative. Not that it makes it right, but to me, the larger character flaw is lack of self-awareness. He's sweet - I think his taking her to the dance was right up Sam's alley. He's funny, he's cute, and he makes Sam laugh. More importantly, he makes her feel like a woman...and he's someone she can be a woman with - in every way.

                                As Skydiver has said, Pete hit a plot hole.

                                Whether we like it or not, I think Pete is a huge catalyst for Jack and Sam later on. Sam has created an ideal in her head and she's gone after it with tenacity, giving it the same attention she does everything else in her life. Wham bam, she found a man, took him out, bedded him, and got herself that relationship she thought she needed. In a lot of ways, I pity Pete for ending up on Sam's "checklist". Despite telling him about the program, he's still an outsider. She's compartmentalized him.

                                I think too, it gets her to let her guard down just a little bit with Jack. She's with someone, so that's safe...right? Past the humming, Jack says very little, but his reactions, his background movements (he had to have been the one to get authorization to tell Pete everything and not give him some token story) - show how much he cares about Sam. Her happiness means so much to him - given Jack's past behavior, I'm pretty sure Sam is the only thing keeping him from beating the crap out of Pete for interfering with their op.

                                Hopefully I've acknowledged the main point of Pete here. I think there's a lot of good that came from this character and so my goal is to upfront acknowledge what we all know, that Pete was incongruous in the way he was written. He is, though, very important in the S/J story

                                Now I'm going to bed.

                                Also: I made some icons from Chimera here: Chimera Icons

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