Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Cagranosalis]

I have always thought it bore a very striking resemblance to the barn-raising scene from Witness. Sadly, no bare-chested men there- since they're hunky Amish guys (including Harrison Ford). I actually thought it was a parody of that scene at first, or some kind of meta-narrative about the future being the same as the past.

How's everyone been?
I'm just hanging around waiting for news.

Hey there! I was just thinking about you the other day and wondering if you were still lurking.

Good here thanks. Also still waiting for news. But I'm a very patient person.

Ooops. I completely forgot about Cam. And you are completely correct there. (I amend my earlier statement to include Pendergast and Emerson.) He was always throwing around orders as though he was in charge. And to take the discussion slightly off topic, when Cam took over the Odyssey in order to rescue Sam from floating around in space, I was really steaming over that (to put it politely). How is it that he (a mere 302 pilot) suddenly knows how to use a ship as massive as the Odyssey to delicately pluck somebody out of space like that when he basically knows nothing about these big spaceships. I'm quite sure Marks (or whoever the helmsman was on that trip) was perfectly capable to doing what Cam did, and could have done it better.

Sorry about the rant. Apparently I've blocked out the memory of those episodes, since it annoys me so much about him. Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion about "Memento".

Also, the ultimate "why Cam?" moment in Ark Of Truth (which, coincidently also is the ultimate ships-outdoing-gate-travel adventure). So here's Sam and here's Cam of equal rank. Who has more overall experience with this class of earth ship? Yeah, so Sam gets relegated to science officer, thus fulfilling the parody she pulled off in Star Trek guise in 200. Don't even get me started. There's a lot I like about AOT but the overall set up is a big flaw. Ships in general... *shakes head*




Prohecy

I really like this episode. I like the way it neatly ties up the whole Jonas-is-different arc, which makes the whole point of him being a super-fast learner etc. make so much more sense. Yes there's a lot of Jonas/Sam interaction here and, for a lot of the story, those two are separated from Jack and Teal'c, but there's also some really nice shippy hints in there. Lots and lots of nice looks between Sam and Jack and, when they're discussing Sam sitting that mission out, Jack's almost apologetic to Sam for backing up Hammond on that. Her head is turned from camera but I'd love to have seen the look on her face!

[hlndncr]

Thanks for the review Fluffy!

I have to admit that I love the scene where Jack effectively benches Sam from the mission after Jonas reveals his vision. Sam is so not a happy bunny but Jack is determined to protect her and he and Hammond do really gang up on her.

I completely agree with this. Jack is willing to risk her wrath to protect her, and it makes me think how mad Jack must have been with himself (and maybe even a little with Jonas) when he gets back and finds out that she nearly died because she was left behind.

[iiradned]

Just finished a re-read of Continuum Interrupted and something in the fic got me thinking about how Sam and Jack behaved when they finally got together.

For nearly a decade how Sam and Jack related to each other was governed by the regs and their duty to uphold them. My impression is that post Thread/Moebius, Sam and Jack simply got together for dinner and maybe more and simply settled into coupledom as if they had been at it forever.

They never as Daniel in the fic said:

"Well not entirely Sam," Daniel commented. "It's a little more then that. You are meeting Jack almost like you did in the briefing room all those years ago. But you are meeting him as an equal, not as a subordinate in rank, experience, or maturity." Wow she hadn't thought of it like that. "You are meeting and seeing a side of Jack that has been impossible for you to know before." Leave it to Daniel to see right through the problem to the heart of the situation.

"That is just my opinion Sam, so take it for what it is worth." Sam ignored his cautionary words. His opinion on human nature had saved their collective asses countless times. "As much as Jack loves you and respects you, and you him, there is no getting around the fact that he trained you, mentored you, and then loved you for years before he was allowed to." Daniel was right, she'd never thought of it like that before.

"You both got to know each other as colleagues before anything else," Daniel Continued. "You never really got to experience that euphoric first attraction. You never got to be the woman Jack swept off her feet because you were so much more to him by the time you both got a chance to make things real between you.

Jack did get one chance to sweep Sam off her feet - the kisses (I'm sure it was more than once ) in WoO. But then reality reasserted itself when the loops ended.

And post Threads/Moebius they had known each other long enough to skip a lot of the steps in a regular courtship. This is not to say that there aren't things about the other that they have yet to discover.

This is part of the reason I like read fics where Jack does sweep Sam of her feet. 'Cause crapnabbit (stolen from Akamaimom) and love each other and any universe where and do not get together is just plain WRONG!!

[hlndncr]

For nearly a decade how Sam and Jack related to each other was governed by the regs and their duty to uphold them. My impression is that post Thread/Moebius, Sam and Jack simply got together for dinner and maybe more and simply settled into coupledom as if they had been at it forever.

<snipped for space>

Jack did get one chance to sweep Sam off her feet - the kisses (I'm sure it was more than once ) in WoO. But then reality reasserted itself when the loops ended.

And post Threads/Moebius they had known each other long enough to skip a lot of the steps in a regular courtship. This is not to say that there aren't things about the other that they have yet to discover.

This is part of the reason I like read fics where Jack does sweep Sam of her feet. 'Cause crapnabbit (stolen from Akamaimom) and love each other and any universe where and do not get together is just plain WRONG!!

You know, Sam and Jack may have had some residual issues with their former power structure, but I have a hard time believing they would be that pronounced. If you look at the later seasons, Jack really does relate to Sam more like an equal. He even takes orders from her to a certain extent (in Menace she essentially orders him back to the planet to investigate; in Moebius he complains that she won't let him use the time machine to watch the cubs win the world series). I think out in the field Jack was the boss when he needed to be, but we very rarely see him give Sam any outright orders. He's used to conferring with her and deferring to her.

As far as euphoria and being swept of their feet, I think they had that when they first got together. And I think they probably really savored the little things (like holding hands, giving little personal compliments, calling each other for no reason, etc.) because they had to hold back for so long. I don't think it required big grand gestures to demonstrate how they felt because they both knew that the little everyday things meant so much more.

[Akamaimom]

You know, Sam and Jack may have had some residual issues with their former power structure, but I have a hard time believing they would be that pronounced. If you look at the later seasons, Jack really does relate to Sam more like an equal. He even takes orders from her to a certain extent (in Menace she essentially orders him back to the planet to investigate; in Moebius he complains that she won't let him use the time machine to watch the cubs win the world series). I think out in the field Jack was the boss when he needed to be, but we very rarely see him give Sam any outright orders. He's used to conferring with her and deferring to her.

As far as euphoria and being swept of their feet, I think they had that when they first got together. And I think they probably really savored the little things (like holding hands, giving little personal compliments, calling each other for no reason, etc.) because they had to hold back for so long. I don't think it required big grand gestures to demonstrate how they felt because they both knew that the little everyday things meant so much more.

TO quote myself (I'm shameless, I know)--"Some people were turned on by the forbidden. Jack found permission to be the sweetest aphrodisiac ever." That's how I think it would be for them. Being ALLOWED to do normal physical "relationship" actions would make those things--holding hands, pecks on the lips, just touching each other without it being surreptitious--more beautiful than normal. I can't see either of them taking those things for granted at any time during their relationship.

[Petra]

I'll get back to Prophecy once I have more time, I just wanted to quickly comment on this:

For nearly a decade how Sam and Jack related to each other was governed by the regs and their duty to uphold them. My impression is that post Thread/Moebius, Sam and Jack simply got together for dinner and maybe more and simply settled into coupledom as if they had been at it forever.

I can't imagine that it would be so simple. I tend to think it took them a bit longer; even if they got closer *ahem* at the cabin, once they parted for their posts their doubts and insecurities reasserted themselves to some degree. Interacting as a couple is *very* different than interacting as CO/2IC, even if they were equal in anything but rank.

I have two versions of how they got together post-Threads in my head; both come from fanfics...or rather both fanfics matched my thoughts exactly. In the fluffier version, stressing their equal footing, it happened gradually just like Annerb described it in her "DC series". In the other version, dare I say it: darker and more (for me) realistic, it happened just like Artaxastra described it in her fic "3 days away", taking into account their issues with having/relinquishing power and control.

And post Threads/Moebius they had known each other long enough to skip a lot of the steps in a regular courtship. This is not to say that there aren't things about the other that they have yet to discover.

Absolutely. They know each other intimately as soldiers, professionals and human beings, but they don't know each other as man and woman, so there's a lot for them to learn and discover about the other.

But honestly, they are such unconventional people that I can't imagine them as conventional couple and I think that no matter how much they love each other, they know that for both of them duty will always come first.

This is part of the reason I like read fics where Jack does sweep Sam of her feet.

Meh, I don't like such fics. In most of them Jack is wildly OOC, serenading or taking her clubbing or bombarding with flowers and poems and I just can't see him do any of this. *shrug* To each their own.

[Akamaimom]

Meh, I don't like such fics. In most of them Jack is wildly OOC, serenading or taking her clubbing or bombarding with flowers and poems and I just can't see him do any od this. *shrug* To each their own.

I can't see Jack doing any of these things, and I can't see Sam being swept off her feet by these things. I think he'd do something like give her a hard to find part to her motorcycle, or figure out a way to give her the latest scientific gadget in order to "sweep her". I don't get all ga ga over flowers, but when my husband got me new wheels for my quilting machine, I was ecstatic. I think that all those years together would make him more likely to know what she wants/needs. I doubt he'd ever consider bringing things like flowers.

[hlndncr]

I can't see Jack doing any of these things, and I can't see Sam being swept off her feet by these things. I think he'd do something like give her a hard to find part to her motorcycle, or figure out a way to give her the latest scientific gadget in order to "sweep her". I don't get all ga ga over flowers, but when my husband got me new wheels for my quilting machine, I was ecstatic. I think that all those years together would make him more likely to know what she wants/needs. I doubt he'd ever consider bringing things like flowers.

Well I agree that the best presents are the ones that demonstrate the person giving them really knows you. But I think Sam would enjoy flower every once in a while (she like plants ). I think that's one of those simple relationship things she would savor. He can give her flowers. It wouldn't be crazy and over-the-top because, as Petra points out, that's just not Jack (or Sam for that matter). It would just be a small bunch of flowers left in her lab or something like that (like Rachel's Flowers stories).

[Akamaimom]

Well I agree that the best presents are the ones that demonstrate the person giving them really knows you. But I think Sam would enjoy flower every once in a while (she like plants ). I think that's one of those simple relationship things she would savor. He can give her flowers. It wouldn't be crazy and over-the-top because, as Petra points out, that's just not Jack (or Sam for that matter). It would just be a small bunch of flowers left in her lab or something like that (like Rachel's Flowers stories).

I think for her, though, she'd appreciate more a single flower--or something personal, rather than a huge hothouse bouquet. Those are "Forgive me" flowers, and she'd be able to see through that in a minute.

[hlndncr]

I think for her, though, she'd appreciate more a single flower--or something personal, rather than a huge hothouse bouquet. Those are "Forgive me" flowers, and she'd be able to see through that in a minute.

You don't think Jack might have some apologizing to do along the way somewhere?

[hedwig]

Well I agree that the best presents are the ones that demonstrate the person giving them really knows you. But I think Sam would enjoy flower every once in a while (she like plants ). I think that's one of those simple relationship things she would savor. He can give her flowers. It wouldn't be crazy and over-the-top because, as Petra points out, that's just not Jack (or Sam for that matter). It would just be a small bunch of flowers left in her lab or something like that (like Rachel's Flowers stories).

Not to bring up a certain person into this discussion, but Sam seemed to really enjoy and appreciate the flowers she found on her walkway and doorstep in "Chimera", and then the rest of them that were given to her on the big date that night. So I don't think she would have any problem with Jack giving them to her. I think she'd love it. But I don't think he'd be the "dozen roses" kind of guy; he'd be more of the really pretty, but sort of ordinary flower kind of guy, and maybe just a little vase of them as stated above. Maybe he has some pretty flowers growing around his house, or he asked a neighbor if he could pick a few of theirs for a "friend". Or even found some wildflowers that he thought she'd like and brought them to her.

[hlndncr]

Not to bring up a certain person into this discussion, but Sam seemed to really enjoy and appreciate the flowers she found on her walkway and doorstep in "Chimera", and then the rest of them that were given to her on the big date that night. So I don't think she would have any problem with Jack giving them to her. I think she'd love it. But I don't think he'd be the "dozen roses" kind of guy; he'd be more of the really pretty, but sort of ordinary flower kind of guy, and maybe just a little vase of them as stated above. Maybe he has some pretty flowers growing around his house, or he asked a neighbor if he could pick a few of theirs for a "friend". Or even found some wildflowers that he thought she'd like and brought them to her.

I don't know if I can picture Jack picking wilderflowers.

[Akamaimom]

I don't know if I can picture Jack picking wilderflowers.

But he might ask a certain secretary to acquire some for him. . .

But can't you just see him seeing something cool on the side of the road and texting her the picture of it? I can't see him making a big deal out of it, but I can see him doing small, simple things for her. And Pete's flowers in Chimera weren't large "Forgive me Flowers". They were more simple. And she'd accept that from Pete because that was Pete. But I think that something else would feel normal from Jack. I dated one guy and he gave me all kinds of cool romantic stuff, because he was a romantic. Another guy gave me a 112 pound pumpkin--because he thought I'd have fun figuring out things to do with it. It would have felt really weird receiving things the other way around.

Does that make any sense at all?

[hedwig]

I don't know if I can picture Jack picking wilderflowers.

Me either. But maybe on a mission, he forgets himself momentarily in a field of flowers, picks a few and hands them to Sam, and then thinks "ooooops!, shouldn't have done that", or when they are together finally and maybe go on a picnic where there are wildflowers, he picks a few and gives them to her.

[Akamaimom]

Me either. But maybe on a mission, he forgets himself momentarily in a field of flowers, picks a few and hands them to Sam, and then thinks "ooooops!, shouldn't have done that", or when they are together finally and maybe go on a picnic where there are wildflowers, he picks a few and gives them to her.

I like that scenario . . . that's the kind of thing that works for me. But I can't see him calling florists and picking ribbon colors.