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    Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
    Okay--here I am officially de-lurking. I hope that I don't degrade the upstanding and highbrow analysis and discussion into something fluffy--but hey--you people told me to come here. It's your fault.

    I agree with this. For the longest time I chose to see this as a shippy thing, but the more I watched it (I really like this ep), the more I decided that for Jack, the biggest anger-inducer was the "I told you so" moment he was having.

    Because I like the small shipper moments more--they seem more personal. Like the teeny tiny itsy bitsy smile that she gives him when he and Teal'c emerge around the corner. (As has already been said, it's incredibly similar to the teeny tiny itsy bitsy reaction she gives him in DM.) It's almost like she's saving up the big "thank you" until she can do it properly. As in--taking him up on the whole fishing thing.

    Ooh--there's a fic idea.
    *waves*

    Welcome to the Dark Side.

    No, seriously, for any lurkers: we don't bite.

    See, for me, Jack's too angry when he gets out of the car for it to be just about the Prometheus being stolen, and the security being compromised after he warned it wasn't a good idea. Let me see if I can explain my reasoning (and I'm not trying to change anyone's minds over their own interpretation here - you're all perfectly entitled to believe it isn't shippy at all - just trying to explain a bit more why it is shippy to me).

    Jack, for me, never really sees red and gets loud angry over *things* getting damaged, stolen or broken - computers, MALPS, UAVs, 302s, 303s...by contrast for me, he gets furiously and obviously angry about *people* being threatened, harmed or hurt.

    A good example of that is Red Sky. He's really not that fussed that the rocket blew up - his anger is all directed at the knowledge that when the rocket blew up, it killed two men.

    Another would be when Sam suggests watching the black hole in A Matter of Time, he's not angry at her per se but at the fact that Major Boyd and co. are dying and they can't do anything to save them.

    Another would be his anger at the Kelownans for trying to smear Daniel's name. He's not bothered about the naquadria; he's furiously angry with them for suggesting Daniel was responsible.

    Another example would be his anger over sending the kid back to her people in Learning Curve.

    Another would be Continuum when he lets his anger get the better of him, storms up to Ba'al and asks what he's done with his people.

    So, for me, when Jack storms out of the car in Prometheus and starts yelling at Davis over what happened, I just don't believe that he's upset that he was right, the security has failed and a group has taken the Prometheus hostage. Rather my thoughts immediately jump to that he's furiously angry that his fears came true, the security has failed and a group has taken his people hostage, and that there's a wealth of worry about his people that is fuelling the very visible anger that we see.

    Now, while I'm certain Jack was including Jonas the *his people* group in this instance (as Shadow Play does indicate Jack is viewing Jonas that way), I believe his relationship with Jonas is still very much one where they're trying to find their way with each other, and that they haven't interacted much beyond their professional relationship and maybe one or two team nights. So, while I do think it bothers Jack that Jonas has been captured, there's less of a personal aspect to his worry about Jonas.

    Which means that the weight of Jack's worry over *his people* for me is for Sam - and would be even without a romantic slant. He's known her for over five years at this point; she's a close team-mate and friend; he cares about her immensely just on that basis never mind romantically in love with her as a woman. There's a real fear that she's in danger; frustration that he's not with her as her team leader (never mind the man who loves her), that it's the terrorist group that has control of the situation not him. That to me is underscoring his anger here.

    And that is why I find it shippy.
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      Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
      *waves*

      Welcome to the Dark Side.

      No, seriously, for any lurkers: we don't bite.

      See, for me, Jack's too angry when he gets out of the car for it to be just about the Prometheus being stolen, and the security being compromised after he warned it wasn't a good idea. Let me see if I can explain my reasoning (and I'm not trying to change anyone's minds over their own interpretation here - you're all perfectly entitled to believe it isn't shippy at all - just trying to explain a bit more why it is shippy to me).

      Jack, for me, never really sees red and gets loud angry over *things* getting damaged, stolen or broken - computers, MALPS, UAVs, 302s, 303s...by contrast for me, he gets furiously and obviously angry about *people* being threatened, harmed or hurt.

      A good example of that is Red Sky. He's really not that fussed that the rocket blew up - his anger is all directed at the knowledge that when the rocket blew up, it killed two men.

      Another would be when Sam suggests watching the black hole in A Matter of Time, he's not angry at her per se but at the fact that Major Boyd and co. are dying and they can't do anything to save them.

      Another would be his anger at the Kelownans for trying to smear Daniel's name. He's not bothered about the naquadria; he's furiously angry with them for suggesting Daniel was responsible.

      Another example would be his anger over sending the kid back to her people in Learning Curve.

      Another would be Continuum when he lets his anger get the better of him, storms up to Ba'al and asks what he's done with his people.

      So, for me, when Jack storms out of the car in Prometheus and starts yelling at Davis over what happened, I just don't believe that he's upset that he was right, the security has failed and a group has taken the Prometheus hostage. Rather my thoughts immediately jump to that he's furiously angry that his fears came true, the security has failed and a group has taken his people hostage, and that there's a wealth of worry about his people that is fuelling the very visible anger that we see.

      Now, while I'm certain Jack was including Jonas the *his people* group in this instance (as Shadow Play does indicate Jack is viewing Jonas that way), I believe his relationship with Jonas is still very much one where they're trying to find their way with each other, and that they haven't interacted much beyond their professional relationship and maybe one or two team nights. So, while I do think it bothers Jack that Jonas has been captured, there's less of a personal aspect to his worry about Jonas.

      Which means that the weight of Jack's worry over *his people* for me is for Sam - and would be even without a romantic slant. He's known her for over five years at this point; she's a close team-mate and friend; he cares about her immensely just on that basis never mind romantically in love with her as a woman. There's a real fear that she's in danger; frustration that he's not with her as her team leader (never mind the man who loves her), that it's the terrorist group that has control of the situation not him. That to me is underscoring his anger here.

      And that is why I find it shippy.
      You speak wisdom. I'll have to watch it again and ponder it more deeply.

      Because that does have real merit--he doesn't get as mad about things as he does people. It reminds me of the end of Shades of Grey, where he gives the NID people a chance to go back to Earth rather than be taken by the Asgard. Isn't there a line like, "We don't need their stuff, but we do need them. . ." I'm probably mixing things up--but he has always seen the living entity to be of more value than the item.

      Having said that, I do believe that a decent part of his anger there can be attributed to his having been right about the entire thing being a bad idea. His concerns aren't ever truly taken into consideration, and I think that he hates that he can still be overruled when he knows the actual dangers rather than the theoretical ones.
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        Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
        Having said that, I do believe that a decent part of his anger there can be attributed to his having been right about the entire thing being a bad idea. His concerns aren't ever truly taken into consideration, and I think that he hates that he can still be overruled when he knows the actual dangers rather than the theoretical ones.
        (*I agree*)

        Comment


          Nice observation there Rachel; That's really insightful and not something I'd realy connected the dots on before. Although I'd say Jack's rage in this instance is not necessarily shippy per se because I think he'd be just as mad no matter who was in danger and the Red Sky example is a good example of that. I think where it's specifically Sam he tends to be more guarded of showing how affected he is - to not show his rage/distress at her situation. I mean, he does a pretty poor job of disguising it in most cases but you can see he really tries. It's actually the subdued response from him that is the biggest clue (to me) that his feelings for her are very different to those of the rest of the people he feels a responsibility for/to.


          Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
          You speak wisdom. I'll have to watch it again and ponder it more deeply.

          Because that does have real merit--he doesn't get as mad about things as he does people. It reminds me of the end of Shades of Grey, where he gives the NID people a chance to go back to Earth rather than be taken by the Asgard. Isn't there a line like, "We don't need their stuff, but we do need them. . ." I'm probably mixing things up--but he has always seen the living entity to be of more value than the item.

          Yes! That was pretty much what he said and, considering Jack's considered the dumb one, this just goes to show how perceptive and intelligent he really is. When you add it all up together, his appointment as a General doesn't look all that out of place after all.
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            Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
            No, seriously, for any lurkers: we don't bite.
            Seconded. Sometimes we - okay, I - can get a little too passionate and caught up in discussion, but we really aren't that scary

            btw. welcome Aka!

            Jack, for me, never really sees red and gets loud angry over *things* getting damaged, stolen or broken - computers, MALPS, UAVs, 302s, 303s...by contrast for me, he gets furiously and obviously angry about *people* being threatened, harmed or hurt.
            Oh, I agree. Jack cares about his people - by who I mean anybody under his command or anybody he feels responsible for - and tends to get angry when their lives are threatened. However he very rarely gets as furious as he does here; the fact that mid-season 6 you listed all examples is the best proof of that. So for him to completely lose it like that, there needs to be something more than "just" danger to the people, there needs to exist a whole combination of various variables. In case of Prometheus, it's ignoring his warnings which I still think is the biggest factor, threatening his people and civilians, losing control over Prommie and potential risk of exposing the whole project.

            A good example of that is Red Sky. He's really not that fussed that the rocket blew up - his anger is all directed at the knowledge that when the rocket blew up, it killed two men.
            See, I see his rage in Red Sky as a result of his frustration over the whole situation. SG-1 screw up, their attempts to fix it were met with either indifference or hostility; the people of K'tau didn't *want* to be rescued and to ensure that went as far as to blow up the very thing that was their only hope and killed his men in the process. Their death was just one of many factors that made him lose it.

            Another would be when Sam suggests watching the black hole in A Matter of Time, he's not angry at her per se but at the fact that Major Boyd and co. are dying and they can't do anything to save them.
            I'd rather say AMOT is the example of his cold anger, which is very IC for him and shown more often that hot, boiling, screaming rage.

            Another would be his anger at the Kelownans for trying to smear Daniel's name. He's not bothered about the naquadria; he's furiously angry with them for suggesting Daniel was responsible.

            Another example would be his anger over sending the kid back to her people in Learning Curve.
            I'll give you these 2 examples, but IMO he's far more restrained in Meridian in LC than in RS and Prometheus.

            Another would be Continuum when he lets his anger get the better of him, storms up to Ba'al and asks what he's done with his people.
            Umm, okay, I won't comment on that b/c as much as I like Continuum and love RDA, I hate this scene. I find it utterly cheesy and very OOC.

            Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post
            I think where it's specifically Sam he tends to be more guarded of showing how affected he is - to not show his rage/distress at her situation. I mean, he does a pretty poor job of disguising it in most cases but you can see he really tries. It's actually the subdued response from him that is the biggest clue (to me) that his feelings for her are very different to those of the rest of the people he feels a responsibility for/to.
            Yep, exactly. Cold anger is his normal MO, big restraint in showing his emotions usually indicates that he's personally deeply affected, which usually means it's related to Sam, and hot rage is very rare and shows only in very special, particularly complicated situations. At least that's my take on it.

            Yes! That was pretty much what he said and, considering Jack's considered the dumb one, this just goes to show how perceptive and intelligent he really is. When you add it all up together, his appointment as a General doesn't look all that out of place after all.
            Someone thinks his promotion was out of place?! Blasphemy!

            Also, quoted for truth because reminding that Jack's dumbness is in big part pure fanon is always good.

            I'll be back soon with my review of Unnatural Selection.
            There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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              Excellent review on Prmetheus Josi, and great conversation everyone. I don't have much to add, but here are a few of my thoughs:

              I'm in the Jack's yelling is shippy camp, and I think Rachel did a great job explaining it.

              I'd also like to point out when it looks like the baddies are going to get the hyperdrive online and get away, Jack says: "She's running out of time." (This is before Davis mentions the little issue with the air.) He is hoping she'll get to deck eight and short it out before they get into orbit, and I'm not saying he's not concerned about everyone on board, but I think he is both counting on her and concentrating on her at that moment. For me, that's shippy.

              I agree McGyver Sam is awesome and I think she probably could have saved herself, but it's nice to have friends who've got your back. I like what someone said (sorry to lazy to find and quote) about Jack always being able to count on Sam to save the world and Sam being able to count on Jack to save her, in a pinch.

              I also agree with everyone who said they would have liked to see more of a reaction from Sam about facing Conrad again. I didn't like that Sam never seemed to be at all affected by her experience in DM (I mean she was up and smiling at the end of the episode). I did notice that Jack left her on the bridge with Conrad's body when he went to take care of Simmons (which I don't think was very sensitive of him) and she takes a quick look back at it, but mostly ignores it. Make me wonder who actually ended up moving the body; it's gone before Thor shows up.

              A couple of random thoughts. Why does General Hammond have Jonas accompany Sam? I see nothing to prompt that assignment. And why is Jonas in civilian clothes and Sam is in her off-world gear, minus flack jacket, weapons and patches?

              Did you notice that MS did the cameo as Thor's voice? I thought one reason TPTB had Thor go down in Revelations/Descent was because MS wasn't around to do his voice anymore. So I orginally thought they may have had someone else do the voice, but nope, it was MS. I guess he agreed to come back and do it for the one brief scene bridging Prometheus and Unnatural Selection.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post
                Nice observation there Rachel; That's really insightful and not something I'd realy connected the dots on before. Although I'd say Jack's rage in this instance is not necessarily shippy per se because I think he'd be just as mad no matter who was in danger and the Red Sky example is a good example of that. I think where it's specifically Sam he tends to be more guarded of showing how affected he is - to not show his rage/distress at her situation. I mean, he does a pretty poor job of disguising it in most cases but you can see he really tries. It's actually the subdued response from him that is the biggest clue (to me) that his feelings for her are very different to those of the rest of the people he feels a responsibility for/to.
                Chiming in from (hopefully) temporarily lurkdom to say I agree re the bolded. Jack loses it in Red Sky after those two people's deaths, guys who were most likely scientists/engineers that he would not have known on anywhere near a personal basis. To me 'ship' in situations like this feels more like an accent to Jack's emotions than a driving force. His anger has an added edge to it because Sam is involved, but had it been only Jonas on the Prometheus, or Jonas and Teal'c, IMHO Jack would have been just as angry about it.

                And I'd like to add that I've really enjoyed the reviews and discussions in the past few weeks I've been gone, great job everyone. Hopefully I'll be able to find some time to come play here more often.

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                  Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                  Excellent review on Prmetheus Josi, and great conversation everyone. I don't have much to add, but here are a few of my thoughs:

                  I'm in the Jack's yelling is shippy camp, and I think Rachel did a great job explaining it.

                  I'd also like to point out when it looks like the baddies are going to get the hyperdrive online and get away, Jack says: "She's running out of time." (This is before Davis mentions the little issue with the air.) He is hoping she'll get to deck eight and short it out before they get into orbit, and I'm not saying he's not concerned about everyone on board, but I think he is both counting on her and concentrating on her at that moment. For me, that's shippy.

                  I agree McGyver Sam is awesome and I think she probably could have saved herself, but it's nice to have friends who've got your back. I like what someone said (sorry to lazy to find and quote) about Jack always being able to count on Sam to save the world and Sam being able to count on Jack to save her, in a pinch.

                  I also agree with everyone who said they would have liked to see more of a reaction from Sam about facing Conrad again. I didn't like that Sam never seemed to be at all affected by her experience in DM (I mean she was up and smiling at the end of the episode). I did notice that Jack left her on the bridge with Conrad's body when he went to take care of Simmons (which I don't think was very sensitive of him) and she takes a quick look back at it, but mostly ignores it. Make me wonder who actually ended up moving the body; it's gone before Thor shows up.
                  OOOH, yes. I'd forgotten the "She" in that statement. Good catch.

                  And about the Conrad part. . .

                  I agree with this--they all seem to have remarkable "bounce back" ability--

                  But doesn't the fact that he's been taken over by a Goa'uld allow her a little distance? She is experienced enough to know that the body of Conrad is no longer being controlled by Conrad, thereby making any kind of revenge futile. She must be seeing him now as a Goa'uld completely unrelated to her other than the fact that he took his host at the same time that the host took Sam.

                  So, I doubt that she would be affected overmuch by seeing Conrad, as he really isn't the same entity that kidnapped her.
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                    Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
                    <snip>
                    But doesn't the fact that he's been taken over by a Goa'uld allow her a little distance? She is experienced enough to know that the body of Conrad is no longer being controlled by Conrad, thereby making any kind of revenge futile. She must be seeing him now as a Goa'uld completely unrelated to her other than the fact that he took his host at the same time that the host took Sam.

                    So, I doubt that she would be affected overmuch by seeing Conrad, as he really isn't the same entity that kidnapped her.
                    I agree in part. I do think that in the immediate aftermath of DM, part of Sam coming to terms with her experience was probably the knowledge that Conrad had become a host and perhaps that was a good enough punishment - and later caught and put in a cell - even better. And so I do think it allows her on an intellectual basis to view Conrad as a Goa'uld from that point forward and not as the same man who kidnapped her - the plus being that the Goa'uld isn't ever going to kidnap her again to try and work out how to remove himself from his host.

                    However, at that moment on the bridge, Sam is viewing the body of the host. She knows the Goa'uld has left him. It is the same man who kidnapped her and he's dead. So I would have expected something more at that moment...would write a ficlet but trying to finish my research project report...

                    What I would have loved though would have been a Conrad/Sam stand-off.
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                      Banner by Replicator Fifth

                      Synopsis: When SG-1 is marooned in deep space, Thor and the Asgard come to the rescue. They then seek O'Neill's help to combat the Replicators who have overrun their home world. Convinced they will attack Earth if not stopped, O'Neill stages a daring mission to stop the Replicators once and for all.
                      *taken from Stargate Wiki*

                      Favourite line: O'Neill: No, no. Full well expected the other shoe to drop eventually.
                      Thor: We can only hope that this will be the last footwear to fall.

                      Favourite scene: Duh, the ice cream of course! Where else on tv you’ll find 3 hot guys in uniforms eating ice creams? And who’d have thought Teal’c would be so protective of his! (besides I love Ben&Jerry ice cream )

                      Generally:

                      Cags deserves a big fat thank you (and a bucket of Ben&Jerry ice cream) for giving me some of my absolute favourites to review.

                      To get it out of my head I’d like to say now that before this rewatch I’d never noticed that Tahmon Penikett (Helo from BSG) plays Third! Wow.

                      I tend to see Unnatural Selection as a mirror reflection of WoO. WoO was a lighthearted comedic episode with a pretty dark, poignant scene at the end while US is a pretty dark, philosophical episode that starts in a light, humorous even, way. Both are team-y, but with distinct focus on Jack. Both even reference Charlie and deal with time machines.

                      US starts on a slightly disappointing note. Big cliffhanger from Prometheus is dealt with in a matter of seconds – quite anticlimactic really - while Thor lays out his plan how to defeat the Replicators. Points for TPTB for hanging lantern on how crazy it is and then in true Stargate fashion proceeding to implement it anyway. Another point for nice call back to Small Victories:

                      Thor: A task for which you are uniquely suited.
                      O'Neill: You need someone dumb enough.

                      and yet another for delightful little scenes reminding us why we care about these characters so much: mention of Hammond’s grandchildren (call back to Crystal Skull; and how sweet is that they are no. 1 on his speed-dial?), Sam and Jack’s discussion about what would be a proper name for the ship, the ice cream scene.

                      I also find it interesting that a short scene establishing that Jonas had received military training – or at the very least “how to handle P-90” training - was included (we’ve never seen Daniel learning how to handle guns). Jack’s harsh attitude reminds me of how he was behaving in Proving Ground towards recruits. I like how Jonas doesn’t exactly snap at Jack, but isn’t afraid to let him know that he's being pushed too much.

                      Fast-forwarding a little to the first meeting with the Replicators in human form, I admit that I like this development, but only on SG-1. I love Fifth/RepliCarter storylines in season 8 and I love how menacing human form replicators are in this episode but I believe that bringing them over to SGA was a mistake. Oh well. Continuing random thoughts, I also find it a little weird that the Replicators created themselves into Reece’s image and yet none of them is dark-skinned.

                      That first meeting is also the only moment of the ep that doesn’t quite work for me. I just don’t buy that our notoriously suspicious and secretive Jack would spill his guts and unasked divulge mission objective to unknown life forms that weren’t detected by any sensors and show up in one place they shouldn’t be able to live. Sam, Teal’c and Jonas wouldn’t do it either, that was always Daniel’s "job" and this is the one moment in the entire season when I think he was evidently needed. Fortunately it’s just a brief moment and the shooting without any warning that ensues is completely IC. I love how Jack is the first to stop and lower his weapon when he realizes that bullets have no effect. For some strange reason his surrender reminds me of him lowering his weapon first as a show of good faith in Cor’Ai (s1). And then First puts his hand into his head.

                      This is my biggest complaint about US. It should have been a 2 parter – or a 3-parter, if we include Prometheus. I can’t believe the writers missed out on such opportunity! First says he and Jack are to visit every place Jack’s ever been and then..nothing happens. We don’t get to see anything. I still remember my profound disappointment the first time I watched US. I’m still disappointed, all those years later. Jack and Jonas desperately needed some background (we don’t even know if they had families FCOL) and who’d have turned down the chance to learn something new about Sam and Teal’c? BW came up with a perfect way to delve into SG-1’s past before the program without any need to change or characterize actors and he did *nothing*. I’m a huge supporter of BW and his writing but this is probably the biggest mistake he’s ever done.

                      I don’t usually talk about visuals but in this case I think it’s necessary. I’m impressed by how the tone is set by colours. During the lighthearted part of the episode set on the ship colours, while darkish (it’s a ship after all), are clear and intense. Once on the planet they become dull and darker and darker. But the true masterpiece is presenting Jack’s subconsciousness as a dark, abandoned Gateroom with a surreal blue tinge. I know some fans complained that it was a rip-off of Meridian but I don’ think so. SGC is just as important to Jack as it is to Daniel, maybe even more so. And Daniel’s Gate room wasn’t as dark. Lights were dimmed, but they were there. In Jack’s version there are none. I think it conveys superbly how both men see themselves. Daniel believed his life was a failure but he didn’t doubt that he was a good man. Jack believes that his life has a purpose and he does right things, but that he isn’t a good enough person, as josi said in her awesome review of Abyss. I imagine that his torture at Baal’s hands, the fact that Baal finally broke him, solidified this conviction.

                      Finally, some more random thoughts:

                      Sam and Teal’c claimed they didn’t remember anything from sharing their minds with the Replicators; Jonas said it was like a nightmare and Jack didn’t say anything. Is it possible that he and Jonas remembered what happened? And if so, why? Could it be because they were both more advanced human beings?

                      Sam is incredibly convincing when she wants/needs to be.

                      The last scene. Sam and Jonas clearly disagreed with Jack; interestingly Jonas even called him “sir” instead of his usual “Colonel” as if trying to distance himself. T’s silence was ambiguous but I think he was on Jack’s side. As the most experienced warrior of all of them he knew the risk as well as Jack did.

                      All in all, I believe that it’s one of the best and at the same time most underrated episodes Stargate’s ever done.

                      Sam/Jack implications:

                      IMO it’s a very interesting episode for S/J because it shows a full spectrum of their interactions. We get to see Jack’s blind faith in Sam’ s scientific abilities, several times (e.g during their first talk with Thor or when Jonas tries to convince Jack not to blow up the ship); Sam laughing at his sarcastic remarks; their playful side when they banter about Prometheus vs Enterprise (Jack is so totally whining and Sam’s so trying not to laugh at him ); their military side and innate trust going both ways: Jack trusts Sam when she volunteers to share her mind with Fifth and she trusts him when he orders her to deceive Fifth; their caring side (the moment Jack drops to his knees Sam doesn’t fight the Replicators to save herself but to get to him; after the second time he’s the one she checks up on first; in turn after the first time she’s the first he checks up on too) and finally the conflict between them. They don’t argue, but Sam doesn’t even try to hide that in her opinion they did the wrong thing and he tries to explain his decision even though as a CO there’s no reason for him to do it. Whether one sees it as just friendship or something more, he cares deeply about what she thinks of him.
                      There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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                        Originally posted by Akamaimom View Post
                        You speak wisdom. I'll have to watch it again and ponder it more deeply.

                        Because that does have real merit--he doesn't get as mad about things as he does people. It reminds me of the end of Shades of Grey, where he gives the NID people a chance to go back to Earth rather than be taken by the Asgard. Isn't there a line like, "We don't need their stuff, but we do need them. . ." I'm probably mixing things up--but he has always seen the living entity to be of more value than the item.

                        Having said that, I do believe that a decent part of his anger there can be attributed to his having been right about the entire thing being a bad idea. His concerns aren't ever truly taken into consideration, and I think that he hates that he can still be overruled when he knows the actual dangers rather than the theoretical ones.
                        I believe you have captured my opinion of this episode as well and stated it much better than I ever could.
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                          Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                          I have to admit that generally I don't recall many episodes at all where Jack rescues Sam "just in the nick of time" or indeed, any of them rescue each other "in the nick of time." That's why it kind of stands out to me especially as it was a BIG motif in DM.

                          In fact, the only other instances that spring to mind are Teal'c showing up to save them from the Jaffa just as the armband gives out on Daniel in Upgrades, and Jack showing up to rescue Daniel from the guerillas in Evolution. I'm sure there must be others...maybe shippyness has erased them from my brain, lol.
                          In case anyone is interested, here is a list of last second/nick of time rescues that I found:

                          Into the Fire - Jack saves Sam from Hathor and her hand device
                          Small Victories - Sam/Thor rescue Jack/Teal'c from getting eaten by replicators
                          D&C - iffy, but included since Sam got Janet to stop Anise from causing injury to Jack
                          Tangent - Sam/Jacob/Daniel rescue Jack and Teal'c
                          Fifth Man - Sam/Daniel/Teal'c rescue Jack/Tyler as they are about to be shot by Jaffa
                          Desperate Measures - Jack rescues Sam
                          48 Hours - Sam/McKay rescue Teal'c
                          Death Knell - Jack/Teal'c rescue Sam from super soldier
                          Descent - the team rescue themselves seconds before the mothership explodes
                          Prometheus - Jack/Teal'c save Sam from hijackers who are about to shoot her
                          Homecoming - Jonas saves Daniel from staff blast
                          Avenger 2.0 - Jack/Teal'c rescue Sam and Felger from Jaffa
                          Evolution - Jack rescues Daniel / Burke rescues Jack and Daniel
                          Grace - Sam saves herself and the Prometheus crew
                          Endgame - Prometheus rescues Sam/Daniel/Teal'c/stargate just before cargo ship jumps into hyperspace
                          Flesh & Blood - Teal'c rescued from the Lucian Alliance ship by the Odyssey seconds before LA ship goes into hyperspace

                          I didn't count Teal'c showing up in "Upgrades" since he didn't actually rescue them other than having a zat with him and zatting a couple of the Jaffa on the run back to the gate. I'm pretty sure they'd have made it anyway without that.

                          There may be others, but those are the obvious ones that spring to mind.

                          And, btw, excellent review of "Unnatural Selection" by Petra.
                          Last edited by hedwig; August 19, 2010, 10:01 PM.

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                            Originally posted by hedwig View Post
                            In case anyone is interested, here is a list of last second/nick of time rescues that I found:

                            Spoiler:

                            Into the Fire - Jack saves Sam from Hathor and her hand device
                            Small Victories - Sam/Thor rescue Jack/Teal'c from getting eaten by replicators
                            D&C - iffy, but included since Sam got Janet to stop Anise from causing injury to Jack
                            Tangent - Sam/Jacob/Daniel rescue Jack and Teal'c
                            Fifth Man - Sam/Daniel/Teal'c rescue Jack/Tyler as they are about to be shot by Jaffa
                            Desperate Measures - Jack rescues Sam
                            48 Hours - Sam/McKay rescue Teal'c
                            Descent - the team rescue themselves seconds before the mothership explodes
                            Prometheus - Jack/Teal'c save Sam from hijackers who are about to shoot her
                            Homecoming - Jonas saves Daniel from staff blast
                            Avenger 2.0 - Jack/Teal'c rescue Sam and Felger from Jaffa
                            Evolution - Jack rescues Daniel / Burke rescues Jack and Daniel
                            Grace - Sam saves herself and the Prometheus crew
                            Endgame - Prometheus rescues Sam/Daniel/Teal'c/stargate just before cargo ship jumps into hyperspace
                            Flesh & Blood - Teal'c rescued from the Lucian Alliance ship by the Odyssey seconds before LA ship goes into hyperspace


                            I didn't count Teal'c showing up in "Upgrades" since he didn't actually rescue them other than having a zat with him and zatting a couple of the Jaffa on the run back to the gate. I'm pretty sure they'd have made it anyway without that.

                            There may be others, but those are the obvious ones that spring to mind.

                            And, btw, excellent review of "Unnatural Selection" by Petra.
                            OK, there are more than I could remember.

                            Although I would just say that there are 9 instances of it (of which 7 would resonate with me as a "nick of time" scenario) including DM and Prometheus in the episode run of Prometheus (s1-Prometheus). And most of those are not Jack turning up in the nick of time to rescue Sam (and actually Sam turning up to rescue Jack which is probably a discussion for another day).

                            Maybe the motif of "nick of time" has been used more since and has became less unusual but my feeling on first watching (and which has evidently stayed with me) was that Prometheus was meant to provide a call back to DM because at that point the "nick of time" motif didn't seem usual to me - and I think that feeling is very valid regardless of the list. Even with your list, we'd had approx 120 episodes at that point and only 9 instances of it, (of which only 3 are Jack saving Sam, and these include DM and Prometheus).
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                              Unnatural Selection

                              Generally


                              I admit I thought it was weird that they were having a two-parter in the way they did Prometheus/US.

                              And I wasn't that impressed on first watching because there isn't a great deal of action, most of the time, the team are simply standing/sitting/lying unconscious.

                              I do love the ice-cream scene. (The Teal'c and Jack interaction over the ice-cream is hilarious). And I also think it's great that we get to see Jack preparing Jonas by taking him back through the P90 training.

                              And I think from a team perspective, I agree with Petra; this is one time when the absence of Daniel is really felt.

                              Sam and Jack

                              I think Petra caught all the moments! I LOVE the Enterprise discussion. There is a great dynamic between Sam and Jack throughout the episode: caring, supporting, friendly, professional.

                              At the end, I don't think Sam is upset with Jack as much as she is with herself. She'd deliberately set out to use Fifth's admiration for her to get his cooperation to help them. Now, I truly believe she meant to honour the deal she made with him but I think as a tactic she'd considered it icky even if it was necessary. I think her recognition that they had used Fifth's humanity against him is not so much a commentary on Jack's decision but on her own culpability.

                              For the record, I think Jack was absolutely right in his decision. There was no way to take Fifth with them without alerting the others given the timing, and they needed to ensure that the replicators were trapped. If they had waited another minute, the replicators may have been able to stop the time dilation device again. Not only that, but they couldn't take the risk of asking Fifth to stay behind because if he'd refused and realised they wouldn't take him with them, they might have been back to square one and just simply trapped again.
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                                Hedwig, what about when Teal'c turns up and zats the Jaffa when Daniel collapses in Upgrades? You don't consider that a last minute rescue?

                                I'm at home, so can't quote.

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