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    Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
    Fluffy I think you should be given the shippiest heavy episode of season 6 because of all you've endured in season 5. I feel like a ship in dry dock here. I'm dying of thirst.

    So I hope it's not cheating to give my thoughts on Summit and Last Stand together. I tried to watch them separately, but there's such a dirth of shippiness in either, and what I have to say about one really also applies to the other.

    I guess these episodes are interesting for the insights they give us into Tok'ra strategy and Goa'uld power structure, but I was just never hugely interested. It does give us our introduction to Ba'al, which does prove hugely important in later years.

    I do always love to see Jacob, and the dynamic between him and the team is priceless. Here we have more interaction between Jacob and Daniel then we've ever seen before, and I noticed that several times Jacob refers to him as "Danny." I've always considered Sam and Daniel's relationship as that of close sibblings. Here I feel Jacob is acknowleding that to him, SG1 are all his kids.

    Jacob and Jack's relationship is slightly more complicated because I believe he is aware of Jack's feelings for Sam, or at least has his suspicions. When Jacob greats the incoming SG teams he hugs his daughter and gives Jack (future son-in-law?) a firm and friendly handshake. (OK, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I'm desperate here!) And it's interesting that when Sam makes her "little joke" about Yu she looks to Jack for approval. Jack doesn't react particularly favorably, but come on, Dad is sitting right there. They don't show Jacob's reaction, but I have to wonder if he's not a little concerned about how much Jack's irreverance is rubbing off on his daughter.

    In Sam's interactions with Elliot I see another way in which Jack has rubbed off on her. Her encouragement to Elliot not to give up ("We go through the gate; get into trouble; get out of it, and go home.") reminds me of how Jack would encourage her to keep going in the early years. You can see her attachment to Elliot as one of her new recruits she helped train, and their's a sort of tender, motherliness to her care for him.

    Sam's relationships are an important part of these episodes. Once again we have an alien devoted to her who is willing to die to save her life. (Poor Sam just can't catch a break this season; one dead boyfriend after another; even ones who come back from the dead, just to die again. Poor girl.)

    In the whole Sam/Martouf/Lantash relationship it is interesting that Sam felt closest to Martouf, whereas it was Lantash I think who was able to better see Sam for herself rather than an extension of Jolinar. But then Sam's reaction to Lantash's declaration of love for her suggests that she really can't believe that his feelings could be just for her and not have something to do with Jolinar.

    Sam's upset at the Tok'ra for choosing to save the symbiote over the host could have several root causes IMO. Most of Sam's interactions were with Martouf; we only see her interact directly with Lantash twice IIRC. In the Tok'ra part 1 Lantash takes over when Martouf becomes too emotional to continue, and in Serpant's Song he gives the whole team a tongue lashing for not sending Apophis through the gate to Sokar. It's not surprising then that she doesn't feel a real warmth for him. It might also be disturbing for her because she is left wondering what choice might have been made if it had been her and Jolinar, or what if it came down to a choice between her father and Selmak? Then there is perhaps some resentment over the zatarc research, which was mentioned, and that was probably being conducted by Anise. (OK, here I may reading way too much into this again.) Sam probably didn't know Anise made a play for Jack, but she did know she and Martouf were constantly at odds, and the entire zatarc incident left her both emotionally and even professionally vulnerable. It's possible that she could be voicing some latent resentment that she is subconsciously channelling into her disapproval of the Tok'ra's treatment of Martouf.

    I don't think any of this changes Jack and Sam's relationship per se. But it does leave Sam even more emotionally tangled, and feeds on her fears of intimacy that contribute to keeping Sam and Jack apart for so long.
    I'm not arguing or disagreeing with anyone just musing on a thought.
    Isn't it interesting we always refer to Martouf and Jolinar not Martouf and Rosha and Lantash and Jolinar.
    The same for the reference of the animosity between Martouf and Anise not Martouf and Freya or Lantash and Anise.
    I realize this is how the show refers to them and thus assumes the dominate personality and of course "we live as one, we love as one."
    I think the Jolinar/Lantash union that Sam was privy to while she was used as a host was the connection she felt deeply but the human face and the friendship Sam built for herself was that of Martouf. In that way the Tok'ra are much more complicated than the Goa'uld - there you know with whom you are dealing! And yet I side with Jack - where push comes to shove it is the symbiote that takes the lead.

    In these two episodes I always wondered why Jack never shared the burden of supporting Elliott out of the tunnels - he did carry the crudely built stretcher. Poor Elliott that must have hurt. In that I thought he was somewhat callous of Sam but he is the guy in charge.
    Jack does show concern for Sam.
    O'NEILL
    Carter, come in.
    (no response)
    Carter, respond.
    (again, there is no response)
    Let's get back.

    and again later

    CARTER
    Well we can't release it here, it will kill you, Elliot and Teal'c.

    O'NEILL
    Then I guess I've got to figure out a way to get it to the Gate.

    JACOB
    It's suicide. You're assuming the Jaffa won't shoot you on sight.
    Thanks to Transcribed by Wallace for Stargate SG-1 Solutions

    These are probably just Jack being Jack but my rose colored shippy glasses give me (not the only but) a deep reason why.
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      Failsafe is my absolute favorite episode of S5.

      I'm confident.

      Me too.

      As am I.

      Originally posted by josiane View Post
      The plot may be rather contrived, but the premise is great and it's done in style, with some really great lines and some lovely shots, particularly when Jack and Teal'c go EVA - all those gorgeous reflections in the visors, and the dreamlike quality of the sound and movement, and those beautiful earthrise shots. It's always fab to see SG1 doing their thing, saving the world unbeknownst to everyone down on Earth. And there's a real poignancy to the scenes back at the SGC, as Hammond and the others wait helplessly - in particular I have to highlight Don S. Davis's amazingly subtle and heartwrenching portrayal of the moment when they think sG1 has crashed into the asteroid.
      I love that they make reference to the asteroid movies and don't take themselves too seriously ( I've seen this movie. It hits Paris.), but at the same time are able to show the dramatic moments. Don S. Davis was just wonderful throughout. And the scenes on the asteroid do look great.


      Another thing I love about this episode is the complete lack of help from our advanced alien allies - it's a real hark-back to the early days of SG1 when only their resourcefulness could save the day. The Asgard continue their remakable haughtiness (sometimes I think it's only because Thor likes Jack that the Earth ever gets any help from those guys ), and the Tok'ra continue to be basically aloof, although of course they do turn up right at the end to give our guys a ride home.
      Yes, Yes, Yes. It's just such a classic SG1 adventure. Before earth had all our fancy intergalactic ships or went looking for the miracle tech of the week to save the day; it was just good ol' fashion determination, ingenuity, and a whole lot of luck!

      On the one hand, not much, but on the other hand, in the middle of a season where we (even we!) so often struggle to find ship, there are a lot of really lovely moments here. This is really an episode that showcases how well SG1 work together and understand each other, and Sam and Jack's interactions here are very comfortable. There's that great shot, early on when they're on Revanna trying to fix the cargo ship, where Sam peers over Jack's shoulder, clearly curious as to what he's looking at so intently (Jack being such a noted expert in Goa'uld technology). He glares at her briefly and then as he turns back to whatever he's examining and Sam moves away, she actually rolls her eyes. It's a very little thing, but it's so, just comfortable. Then of course there's Jack's reactions to Sam getting hurt - he jumps to her aid when she falls, almost cradling her (the way she looks up at him reinforces this - it's actually really quite a tender moment), and then when they go to suit up to go EVA and Sam has a funny turn Jack is there straight away, again touching her, not just by her side. He drops his hands pretty fast when he realises she's not actually going to fall, but still, the naturalness with which he touches her is unusual for them, I think. As to why they're so unusually touchy-feely, perhaps it's because they've just spent nine days holed up in a cargo ship together, perhaps it's because they're kind of isolated, just SG1 on their own in space and so it seems less dangerous? I don't know, but I like it
      So agree. There is such great team interaction, some fabulous character moments, and finally a little Sam and Jack tenderness. (Oh my shippy heart is just all giddy after the long deprivation.) And comfortable is such a great description for there interactions. I love how Sam is constantly rolling her eyes at Jack--when he's examining the ship, when he protests the construction of the bomb, when he tells the Tok'ra we have everything under control.

      I also really love how Sam and Jack together shove Spellman through the gate. (Yes, Sam look how far you've come. Now you are shoving people through the gate just like Jack. )

      Yeah, I can't say there are really any long term implications here. But it's just so much fun.

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        There's a nice shippy bit at the end before they are rescued. Jack lies on the floor at Sam's feet, invading her space.

        Sorry for the quality of the picture...

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          Originally posted by Zoser View Post
          I'm not arguing or disagreeing with anyone just musing on a thought.
          Isn't it interesting we always refer to Martouf and Jolinar not Martouf and Rosha and Lantash and Jolinar.
          The same for the reference of the animosity between Martouf and Anise not Martouf and Freya or Lantash and Anise.
          I realize this is how the show refers to them and thus assumes the dominate personality and of course "we live as one, we love as one."
          I think the Jolinar/Lantash union that Sam was privy to while she was used as a host was the connection she felt deeply but the human face and the friendship Sam built for herself was that of Martouf. In that way the Tok'ra are much more complicated than the Goa'uld - there you know with whom you are dealing! And yet I side with Jack - where push comes to shove it is the symbiote that takes the lead.
          <snippety-snip>
          I guess I always think there are two types of Tok'ra: those who deeply believe in the concept of sharing and in these situations, we saw much more of the host than the symbiote (Selmak, Lantash being the primary two examples), but where generally the symbiote assumed a more dominant position in the relationship mostly because their hosts were usually from a slave planet and not used to taking the lead, (Garshaw and Anise would fall into this category) and generally, the second type where there were those who believed in the principle of a host being a volunteer a good thing but didn't believe that this meant true sharing of control of the body (Jolinar, Delek, for example I would put here).

          For some reason, I always interpret it as Martouf was the one in love with Jolinar and Lantash came to love because of Martouf's love. Whereas with Sam, I always think Lantash fell first for *Sam* (as opposed to what Sam represented of Jolinar) and then it was Martouf who followed.

          EDIT: And to make this vaguely on topic - yay for Sam and Jack!
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            Fail Safe

            Generally


            I admit this is my favourite SG1 team episode. It's just wonderfully warm and teamy.

            Sam and Jack

            I think the imminent death and destruction does allow their guards to slip a little - after all, if they don't sort out the asteroid, they're going to be rebuilding Earth at the Alpha site (and a million AU fanfics were started with this idea), and frankly, (even though I always think it would take time for Sam and Jack to completely lose their guard and adjust especially given S5 to date), the Air Force regs aren't going to mean anything anymore and survival of the human race will be on the table including pairing up.

            So, Jack's a little more relaxed about touching her when she's injured. She's relaxed enough to start smiling again at his antics. In fact, they're all quite happy bantering along (I think my favourite line is "Carter, I can see my house!") as though just spending the time together as a team has been good for them and allowed them all to reconnect somewhat.

            And I love that pic Bev posted - with the two of them facing death - they choose to face it sitting as close as they can possibly get to the other without being in each others' laps (and yes, I'm sure there's another million AU fanfics with that idea too).
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              Very late to the discussions about both Last Stand and Fail Safe but, actually, it's saved me a job since everyone has already said everything I wanted to add.


              Last Stand
              I love the two parter as a whole but really hated the fact Lantash/Elliot died at the end. Although it made sense storyline wise, I felt we'd only just got to know Elliot and it seems cruel. It would also have added an interesting dimension to have Lantash around for a bit knowing that he too had those feelings for Sam. I would have liked to have seen more exploration on how Jolinar's emotions affected Sam's. It's hinted at in a couple of episodes but never really fleshed out.
              On the whole discussion about whether Tok'ra symbiote and host do really "love as one" it seems that yes they do... and yet no. Like a lot of things with the Tok'ra and symbiotes in general there is a lot of inconsistency within the series as to how it all actually works. Anise/Freya's interest in Daniel/Jack respectively (or was it the other way around?) contradicts that. I understand it's complicated but I do sometimes wish some had - early on - sat down and written some rules... or at least written them as they went along so future episodes adhered to the mythology they created rather than seeming to contradict it. Although in this instance I don't see any contradiction as such, just that it seems Martouf being the more dominant was always the one who was attributed (whether in our minds or in script) to having feelings for Sam. I must admit it came as a bit of a surprise to me the first time I saw this and there was Elliot telling Sam that Lantash loved her. Sam certainly felt more regret about Martouf's death than she showed here over Lantash's, and more beligerance towards the Tok'ra for choosing the symbiote to survive over the host, which seems to imply that her own feelings - be they romantic or platonic - were more for the host, Martouf than for the symbiote. Then again, Martouf/Lantash was one of the few Tok'ra that was mostly voiced/controlled by the host half so it's easy to forget there was even a symbiote there from time to time.
              As was pointed out, I do think it's an interesting observation that we refer to Martouf (host) and Jolinar (symbiote) and not either both hosts, both symbiotes or combined in the "love as one" relationship we're led to believe Tok'ra share.

              Fail Safe. Also one of my favourites. Nice review Josi. Yes, very cliched and not an original story at all but, as was seen with the two movies about asteroid of doom that came out around the same time, you can take the same basic premise and tell a completely different story depending on which perspective you come at it from. In this case, they simply put the Stargate spin on it by making it all about a goa'uld plot to destroy Earth. Everything else is, kind of, dressing on that but it's pretty stylish dressing with some great teamyness and nice dialogue. I don't really care that it all feels so contrived that so much can go wrong. I don't mind the cliches aplenty when they're delivered so skillfully! It's just good solid team stuff. SG-1 all together, doing what they do best - saving the world.
              On the shippy front, I love that little comfort scene between Jack and Sam when she has a little dizzy spell. Actually, it's not the touching that I love; since Jack is actually quite a touchy guy if you watch closely so touching any of his team in that circumstance is totally normal (although it's fair to say he's been avoiding any phsyical contact with Sam specifically for some time). What makes the scene so nice for me is the look on Sam's face after when Jack effectively tells her to sit this out. he doesn't make it an order but I think it's clear he would have forced the issue had Sam pushed. But Sam's expression is one of... almost disappointment and frustration. I'm not sure here whether she's annoyed at showing this weakness to him (albiet hardly her fault) or something else... frustration because she knows she's probably the best person - technically - to defuse the bomb and knows she can't go? I really haven't worked it out but it's a great little touch in AT's performance in that scene.
              Thanks dipsofjazz for posting that picture because I was also going to point out that scene at the end of Fail Safe where they are, essentially, waiting to die. In itself there's nothing overtly shippy in that scene until you factor that in the near death thing and look at their positions - and relative seclusion - in relation to Daniel and Teal'c. Kind of makes you wonder where that might have gone had rescue not shown up in the nick of time.... ah and thus a thousand fanfics were born!


              Great reviews everyone!
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                Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post
                What makes the scene so nice for me is the look on Sam's face after when Jack effectively tells her to sit this out. he doesn't make it an order but I think it's clear he would have forced the issue had Sam pushed. But Sam's expression is one of... almost disappointment and frustration. I'm not sure here whether she's annoyed at showing this weakness to him (albiet hardly her fault) or something else... frustration because she knows she's probably the best person - technically - to defuse the bomb and knows she can't go? I really haven't worked it out but it's a great little touch in AT's performance in that scene.
                I also noted that look. It was when they were getting ready to set the bomb in the first place; so I don't think she was considering her expertise in defusing it, and I think she had full confidence in Jack to set it up properly. But I did wonder if maybe she wasn't disappointed in not being able to make the space walk. This is just the kind of thing I'm sure she dreamed about as a kid. (And an experience she would have enjoyed sharing with Jack.) But then I also realized that if she had been out setting up the bomb she would not have noticed the gravity issue and discovered the naquadah core, and they would have vaporized the earth. So all for the good in the end.

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                  Supposed to post warrior tonight. Computer having issues loading/looping. Just logging in from phone. will post tomorrow.
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                    Spoiler:
                    stupid computers...... some days I'm so thankful I work with people who can fix this stuff.....




                    banner by Regularamanda

                    Synopsis

                    Imhotep's First Prime, Kytano is now the leader of the powerful Jaffa rebellion. SG-1 head there in the hopes of forging an alliance, but find that it could come at a hefty cost.

                    Favourite Scene

                    The scene in the tent with Jack, Sam and Daniel.

                    Favourite Quote

                    Bra'tac: Jaffa have long memories.
                    Jack: That's ok, coz I don't.

                    Kytano: You are one that speaks his mind, O'Neil.
                    Jack: That's why I don't speak much.

                    Review

                    The episode starts off with Kytano's speach to the free Jaffa, encouraging them to fight against the Goa'uld. He promises them that if they die, they will go to paradise, mirroring every religious war that has ever been fought. At the end of the speech we see Bra'tac and Teal'c, looking very odd in light creme coloured robes over their heads, contemplating if Kytano is good for their cause.

                    Back at the SGC, Teal'c and Bra'tac talk to SG-1 and General Hammond about creating an alliance with Kytano's people. General Hammond is going to give them food, but Bra'tac wants weapons for this army. SG-1 travels with the weapons and stand back as Teal'c and Bra'tac greet other Jaffa, some old friends. Sam brings up an interesting point that the new Jaffa just show up, Kytano just trusts them, doesn't question their loyalty. Bra'tac basically shrugs it off as he trusts Kytano to see inside the soul and know they are true. The various fight sequences are very cool, showcasing the talents of the various stunt persons, actors etc. During one fight, Jack jumps in, stopping the fight and insulting their practices. Jack gets challenged but when the cry comes that Kytano has returned, everyone runs to greet him. When Kytano greets SG-1, he begins to list the Goa'uld's that they've killed. Jack tries his hand at some Jaffa speak, grinning at Sam and Daniel as he does so.

                    When Jack states that they've brought weapons, they are politely refused, stating that Earth weapons are primitive, so Jack decides to show them otherwise. Carter beings with a bit of show and tell, before Jack invites a Jaffa to use his staff weapon to hit a target. He does, 2 out of 3 times, then Jack asks Carter to demonstrate. Kytano makes a comment about Sam being a woman, and Teal'c steps in. Jack has so much confidence in Sam that he asks a Jaffa to swing the target to make it harder to hit. Carter obliterates the target, then Jack asks her to demonstrate a single shot, which Carter promptly does by shotting the tie that holds what's left of the target in place. Kytano's mind is changed.

                    Kytano meets with SG-1 and discusses the weapons and the alliances. He is concerned that the Tau'ri will withold the weapons, but is assured that they will not by Daniel. When Jack finds out that leadership is challenged by a fight to the death, he shares a look with Sam, expressing his concern.

                    I love the scene in (I'm assuming??) a tent with the fire in the center. Jack, Daniel and Sam all sitting around before crashing for the night. It's a nice teamy moment, but there's something about the way the camera focuses towards Sam and Jack that seems so cozy.

                    SG-1 heads out on a 'bonding' mission with the free Jaffa and they win a fight and gain weapons and more followers. Teal'c is convinced that Kytano is the answer to the free Jaffa movement and asks O'Neill if he believes him now too. When Jack questions it (Kytano's tactics puttin them in danger), Teal'c answers shortly and walks away. When Jack figures out that Kytano is sending a group of Jaffa on a suicide mission, he tries to intervene.

                    Daniel jumps in to say that on Earth, we do things differently... but do we? That first mission through the Stargate was a suicide mission for Jack. He was willing to go, save his planet, and die in the process. True, he was in a very dark place in his life, but does it make it much different? Jack reacts to this, but does it shake him? Does he remember, or go back to that place in his mind where he once too went on a mission he didn't plan to survive?

                    Teal'c states that he want's to help with their next attack, but Jack doesn't want to stay. When Kytano goes to see Teal'c off on his mission, Jack points out that Teal'c is a leader in his own right, so it is possible that Kytano is sending Teal'c on this mission to get rid of the threat of Teal'c being a leader. Teal'c gets captured, tortured but finds out the truth. The system lords have been biding their time until all the free Jaffa are in one spot to come kill them. Teal'c challenges him for the leadership, a fight to the death. With some cool Matrix-esque, and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon like effects, Teal'c kills Kytano as he revels himself to be a Goa'uld, Imhotep.

                    Lord Yu's forces begin attacking, and Teal'c tells everyone to follow him, and they do, heading through the gate.

                    Implications for Jack and Sam

                    Is there much here? It is a Teal'c based episode, but there's a few glances, between them. I love how Jack is completely confident in Carter's ability to show off the weapons, and her own talent.
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                      Thanks for the review Toomi

                      I have to admit I love The Warrior. As I mentioned a few times before I like Jaffa episodes in general, but this is by far my favourite. Maybe because, despite being Teal'c centred, it also focuses a great deal on Jack (very smart Jack to that), maybe because it touches on some great, universal themes like fanaticism, trust vs faith, respect towards other cultures and limits of said respect, maybe because it features great guest stars and cool, novative effects and camera work...in any case it's one of my favourite episodes of the season and with each viewing I notice something new. Great job TPTB.

                      Originally posted by Toomi View Post
                      Daniel jumps in to say that on Earth, we do things differently... but do we? That first mission through the Stargate was a suicide mission for Jack. He was willing to go, save his planet, and die in the process. True, he was in a very dark place in his life, but does it make it much different? Jack reacts to this, but does it shake him? Does he remember, or go back to that place in his mind where he once too went on a mission he didn't plan to survive?
                      IMO suicide missions Ketano sends his people on and first mission to Abydos aren't similar at all. The Jaffa, most notably T'arac, volunteer because they seek glory, fast path to Kheb..because they are fanaticals. They don't simply trust Ketano, they follow him blindly and want to blow themselves up because that's what he wants. Jack OTOH tried to kill himself to end his suffering. It wasn't because he wanted to meet his Maker but because he couldn't live with himself after what had happened to Charlie. He didn't volunteer to lead the Abydos mission to die a glorious death, he accepted West's proposal because he figured that if he was to die anyway, might as well do something useful for the AF while doing it.

                      Throughout the series and particularly in this episode Jack shows not only distrust but also distaste and contempt for fanaticism. I get the feeling he'd come across a few fanaticals in his Black Ops days and it hadn't been pretty. I think Jack was thinking about them rather than about his own suicide attempt.

                      As much as this episode is about Teal'c (and to lesser degree Bra'tac) and his overwhelming desire to free his people which leads to him ignoring Jack's warnings and blindly trusting Ketano, the most interesting aspect for me is Jack vs Ketano stand off. It's quite clear that even if at first they both play nice, they distrust each other at first sight. Focus on their different styles of leadership is something I find fascinating, especially when it's so well played by both actors. It's more than different views about human life and tactics too. one of my favourite scenes is when Jack asks Teal'c to join him and Ketano all but orders him to stay, without asking about his opinion. That's the main difference between these two charismatic leaders in a nutshell.

                      I'd like to point out how smart Jack is in this episode. For once he doesn't hide his intelligence and skills, he sees right through Ke'tano and Imhotep very quickly picks up on it.

                      What's also interesting for me, Daniel and Sam don't take sides here. It's almost like the situation in Scorched Earth: Jack vs Teal'c, with Daniel and Sam playing silent Teal'c from SE. They follow Jack's orders but seem to respect and emphatise with Teal'c..look at how annoyed/impatient Sam seems when Jack makes the last desperate effort to stop Teal'c at the Gate.

                      One thing this episode lacks, IMO, is some explanation if the methods Ke'tano used (fight for leadership, suicide raids etc.) are really part of the Jaffa culture or simply something he made up and it worked in revolutionary fervor.

                      On a totally shallow note, I love Jack's shades.

                      S/J implications

                      I don't see anything shippy, which is even reinforced by framing; Sam is always framed with Daniel (even when she sits/stands next to Jack), or the 3 of them are framed together (which plays up Tau'ri vs Jaffa angle, I suppose). The only exceptions are the awesome scene when Sam shows off her marksmanship skills and the evening scene in the tent, when camera slowly pans in on the two of them.

                      However, there's a lot of friendshippy stuff. Sam's open grin after the "back atcha" exchange at the beginning, their cute non-verbal exchange after Bra'tac tells them to accept different ways of the Jaffa, their discussion of Ke'tano in the tent and finally the "demonstration of P-90's capabilities" scene, it all speaks about comfortable they are around each other, in contrast to Daniel, who seems a bit lost and confused. The Warrior also shows how much Sam and Jack changed since CotG. Neither of them bothers with showing their annoyance at treating Sam as a lesser being because of her sex, Jack simply gives her a chance to change the Jaffa's mind and she does just that. I love this scene.
                      There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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                      awesome sig by Josiane

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                        Great review Toomi, *hugs* for the computer troubles.

                        While this at first seems to be a Teal'c/Jaffa episode, there's a lot here going on about the relationship between Jack and teal'c. This is the first (possibly only) time we ever see them antagonistic towards each other, and there's a real sense that Teal'c may actually end up leaving SG-1 at this point. I think the fcat that it's also a strong Jack episode is why I really like this despite my admitted blahness over Jaffa mythology episodes.

                        It's also worth mentioning that this really ways the very start of the Jaffa rebellion right here. In terms of how their roles develop in the next few seasons this is the jumping off point for when the tide begins to turn against the system lords.


                        Originally posted by Toomi View Post
                        I love the scene in (I'm assuming??) a tent with the fire in the center. Jack, Daniel and Sam all sitting around before crashing for the night. It's a nice teamy moment, but there's something about the way the camera focuses towards Sam and Jack that seems so cozy.

                        Yep, me too I love that scene and I love the slow push in on Sam and Jack, framing them and then cutting away to Daniel which seems to emphasise them. Actually, there's a scene before this in the tent when they are talking with Katano and Jack, Daniel and Sam are on one side, Teal'c the other with Katano in the middle. Even though Daniel is in the middle and the subject matter comes very much round to morality of fighting techniques, Daniel says very little and it's Jack, backed up with the odd comment from Sam, who does most of the talking. It's quite unlike Daniel to be this quiet on a subject (particularly one that I can see him and Jack actually agreeing on for a change) and it almost feels like he's not even in the scene by the way the camera cuts between Sam and Jack and the others.


                        Teal'c states that he want's to help with their next attack, but Jack doesn't want to stay. When Kytano goes to see Teal'c off on his mission, Jack points out that Teal'c is a leader in his own right, so it is possible that Kytano is sending Teal'c on this mission to get rid of the threat of Teal'c being a leader. Teal'c gets captured, tortured but finds out the truth. The system lords have been biding their time until all the free Jaffa are in one spot to come kill them. Teal'c challenges him for the leadership, a fight to the death. With some cool Matrix-esque, and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon like effects, Teal'c kills Kytano as he revels himself to be a Goa'uld, Imhotep.
                        What's quite interesting here is that, as Petra says, Jack is acting extremely smart here and he knows from the start that this set up isn't all as it seems. It's very unsual to see Teal'c and Bra'tac being this naive (perhaps it speaks of how badly they want this) and to not see Daniel or even Sam protesting much but just following Jack's lead is unusual. While Jack has shown to have strong opinions and be vocal about things in the past he's normally the one telling others not to look the gift horse in the mouth. I just love this level of intelligence and good leadership he displays here. I realise that Dumb Jack is a bit of a series necessity (you have to have someone who needs the science dumbed down enough just so the audience get the benefit of that explanation) but it's nice to see that he's really a smart, savvy individual who has a fairly good grasp of character. While he doens't outright know (or suspect) Katano of being a Goa'uld, he recognises that his tactics and method of leadership is exactly the same.



                        Implications for Jack and Sam

                        Is there much here? It is a Teal'c based episode, but there's a few glances, between them. I love how Jack is completely confident in Carter's ability to show off the weapons, and her own talent. [/COLOR]

                        No, not much but the aformentioned scene you mentioned in the tent with the positive Sam/Jack framing and also, there's a couple of points where they share one of those understanding looks, or Sam does that little smile thing as she looks away from something amusing he's just said; almost like Jack's back to the trying to get a smile out of her stage but, here, her smiles are guarded and she's clearly not as comfortable showing him them.



                        Originally posted by Petra View Post

                        I have to admit I love The Warrior. As I mentioned a few times before I like Jaffa episodes in general, but this is by far my favourite. Maybe because, despite being Teal'c centred, it also focuses a great deal on Jack (very smart Jack to that), maybe because it touches on some great, universal themes like fanaticism, trust vs faith, respect towards other cultures and limits of said respect, maybe because it features great guest stars and cool, novative effects and camera work...in any case it's one of my favourite episodes of the season and with each viewing I notice something new. Great job TPTB.
                        Yes, see I am glad someone else sees the Jacksmarts here. I do think the whole dumbJacck thing is a bit of a myth myself; he's shown how clever and wily he can be over and over and this does showcase it.


                        IMO suicide missions Ketano sends his people on and first mission to Abydos aren't similar at all. The Jaffa, most notably T'arac, volunteer because they seek glory, fast path to Kheb..because they are fanaticals. They don't simply trust Ketano, they follow him blindly and want to blow themselves up because that's what he wants. Jack OTOH tried to kill himself to end his suffering. It wasn't because he wanted to meet his Maker but because he couldn't live with himself after what had happened to Charlie. He didn't volunteer to lead the Abydos mission to die a glorious death, he accepted West's proposal because he figured that if he was to die anyway, might as well do something useful for the AF while doing it.
                        I was going to say much the same thing. Except my interpretation was that the initial mission through the stargate to Abydos was never actually meant to be an actual suicide mission for Jack at all... or in fact as a mission to destroy what was on the other side. I always go the impression, watching the film that it was a case of "these aren't your official orders but unofficially, there's this big bomb and if necessary - if there's any threat to earth - you deploy it against said threat and, if necessary, you stick around to make damn sure whatever the target is it gets destroyed"
                        Jack was chosen to lead because he had the experience of crazy-stupid risky missions but also because he was suicidally depressed about his son's death. As you say, he wasn't able to just end his own life because we saw (in the movie) that he couldn't. I think for him this was a way to do so in a kind of endorsed way - for it to have meaning. Then again, on several occasions we've seen Jack is the kind of guy who is more than willing to lay his life on the line for the greater good, provided greater good is what you get.
                        Which brings me on to the point of the difference between Jack's suicide mission and the Jaffa one... yes, as you say, completely different. The latter is more because these people have been lulled into believing in a fanatical way that to die this way is to die with glory. It's somewhat uncomfortably like fanatical suicide bombers that exist in the real world. There's no glory or honour or to the greater good in it; the impact they have in this tactic is to main and kill but ultimately it's a flawed tactic because all it does is work the strengthen the resolve of those who have been attacked and to redouble their efforts to wipe out those factions. As you say, Jack's probably seen enough of that in his career to know that and he places life at a higher value and believes that this kind of sacrifice should only be made for a real purpose, which is something he cannot grasp here.


                        As much as this episode is about Teal'c (and to lesser degree Bra'tac) and his overwhelming desire to free his people which leads to him ignoring Jack's warnings and blindly trusting Ketano, the most interesting aspect for me is Jack vs Ketano stand off. It's quite clear that even if at first they both play nice, they distrust each other at first sight. Focus on their different styles of leadership is something I find fascinating, especially when it's so well played by both actors. It's more than different views about human life and tactics too. one of my favourite scenes is when Jack asks Teal'c to join him and Ketano all but orders him to stay, without asking about his opinion. That's the main difference between these two charismatic leaders in a nutshell.

                        Nicely pointed out.


                        However, there's a lot of friendshippy stuff. Sam's open grin after the "back atcha" exchange at the beginning, their cute non-verbal exchange after Bra'tac tells them to accept different ways of the Jaffa, their discussion of Ke'tano in the tent and finally the "demonstration of P-90's capabilities" scene, it all speaks about comfortable they are around each other, in contrast to Daniel, who seems a bit lost and confused. The Warrior also shows how much Sam and Jack changed since CotG. Neither of them bothers with showing their annoyance at treating Sam as a lesser being because of her sex, Jack simply gives her a chance to change the Jaffa's mind and she does just that. I love this scene.
                        Re. the bolded; yes I love that little moment. It's just one of those lovely unspoken communication moments. Not necessarily shippy - unless you're wearing the Super Dense Ultra High Tint glasses - but a nice moment.
                        I do think Sam does give a slightly affronted look when he mentions she's a woman - more in a "I haven't heard anyone complain about that for a while" sort of way, rather than the femminist bristling she might have done early season 1, but I love the way it's Teal'c here who rises to her defence very quickly. It shows that even though Teal'c is being suckered in to Katano's scheme, he still has enough presence of mind not to forget who his friends are. I actually think there's a couple of scenes here where Teal'c demonstrates he has the ability to one day become a great leader of his people.
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                          Menace

                          SG1 arrive on a deserted but obviously previously inhabited planet. They discover an android girl and take her back to the SGC. After discussion they switch her on and what we have is a very scared young girl aged about 15 who has no idea who or what she is. Daniel is tasked with talking to her, and discovers her name is Reese and her father told her to sleep and when she woke up all would be well. Meanwhile back on the planet a replicator bit is found, it seems this young lady is a human form replicator and her toys are THE replicators. And the replicators destroyed not only her planet but many others. She creates one for Daniel as a present but doesn’t understand why everyone is horrified at them. The replicators try to take over the SGC and Reese loses control of her “toy’s”. Sam & Hammond set the auto-destruct whilst Daniel tries to reason with Reese. Jack bursts in to the Gate Room firing like there was no tomorrow and Reese slumps to the ground. Daniel is furious and upset. He thinks they’ve lost the opportunity to discover more about the replicators and, of course, another person he couldn’t save.

                          I just love General Hammond in his fighting gear – marvellous. Jack has so many marvellous lines, insisting Reese has no feelings and then has “robotic denial”. There’s a great scene where Daniel says she has a mind like a child and behind him Jack is – well behaving like a child. Sam & Jack do seem comfortable in each others presence in this episode and they stand quite close together on numerous occasions. A sad episode in that Reese is so immature, she can’t understand what’s happened, and sort of realises in the end she is responsible for many deaths.

                          Sorry I've haven't been around but really enjoying this. Loved Failsafe - the bit when they're sat on the floor together, well perhaps their last moments and they're sat together........

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                            Oopsie. Catching up.

                            The Warrior

                            Generally


                            While I wasn't thrilled with the episode when I first viewed it, I've come to really, really like this episode for all the reasons people have stated: Jack being strategically and tactically smart at the top of them. His objections to Kytano are not really "Jaffa vs Earth" related but military: you don't turn down weapons that can kill, you don't just trust anyone who wanders into camp, you don't make yourself a target for the enemy, you don't send men you can't afford to lose on suicide missions if you can help it...

                            I also really like that we see a Teal'c who actually does miss being with the Jaffa. Too often we see him being so Earth-friendly by this point that its difficult to remember that he had to have missed parts of his own culture and being around others who knew his culture hugely.

                            Sam and Jack

                            There are some really lovely non-verbal beats. And the scene with the shooting is just awesome. He's just so proud of her; so confident in her abilities. And she's just happy showing off for him and making *him* look good as well as her.
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                              Menace

                              Generally


                              It is the Daniel and the Robot episode and I hated it when I first saw it, mainly because I've never been a fan of the way the actress played Reese.

                              Sam and Jack

                              Fundamentally, they're on the same page. Both of them share the view of the robot as effectively a robot as compared to Daniel who believes her to be a person in her own right.

                              The one scene that comes to mind is when they've just activated the robot, Daniel goes back to Reese and leaves Sam and Jack in the hall. Sam suggests they might have missed something on the planet and gives Jack this really pointed gaze...and he immediately goes "I'll go back." On one level, it's so couple-y (think Continuum when he suggests lunch, she gives him a look and he suddenly offers to buy), and yet on another there's nothing to it but being so professionally in synch with each other.

                              But I just want to shake them and say: look!! You're idiots!! You're still madly in love with each other!! Maybe that's just me....
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                                Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post
                                Yes, see I am glad someone else sees the Jacksmarts here. I do think the whole dumbJacck thing is a bit of a myth myself; he's shown how clever and wily he can be over and over and this does showcase it.
                                I'm inclined to agree, mostly. I know where it came from and I admit that there are some episodes in which Jack was acting dumb and sometimes the writers focused too much on the comical aspect of his character.

                                Like in "Serpent's Venom" when Jacob states that he needs Daniel and Sam's expertise but takes Jack along only because "he's always fun to have around". Don't get me wrong, I love Jacob and Jack's antics in the ep but this particular line always rubs me up the wrong way, because...really? You have a smart and experienced Black Ops operative/pilot/team leader at your disposal and you take him on your undercover, dangerous mission because he's entertaining and not because of his skills? Doesn't it send the wrong message?

                                In terms of avoiding such goofs seasons 5 & 6 were much better than season 4, IMO, but then came season 7 and the rest of the show. At some point I made a list of all episodes in which Jack became dumb!Jack (don't remember on which thread though) and long story short, my conclusion was that Jack's dumbness was proportional to RDA's screentime: the less RDA the more dumb!Jack. It's like TPTB decided that he was the only one capable of bringing humour to any ep so all his scenes were used to cram as many one-liners into them as humanly possible. Which in turn turned him into cosmic!giddy!Jack who never knew anything and was always joking around which somehow morphed (to my horror) into classical!Jack in the fandom's collective mind. Little fact that got forgotten somewhere along the line was that in each ep RDA had more screentime in Jack wasn't spouting one-liners non-stop and was regaining his smarts (case in point: Zero Hour, Full Alert). But fans tend to ignore it, for whatever reasons.

                                Now that I've ranted, I'm off to watch Menace
                                There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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