Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post
    One interesting aspect of the Unas is how they have evolved over the series. The first time we meet oen he is an evil monster host to a goa'uld and, essentially, the bad guy. Next time they are a primitive-like clan that takes Daniel captive (presumably for supper). Here we see them turned into the victimised minority that fight and win their freedom (Braveheart in a bottle ). And the next time we see them they are a fully forms, civillised and organised free society - Chaka even acting as a negotiator throughout.
    Quite an interesting development in a very short time.
    Great thought. We also see a slightly different Unas in Demons. He's sort of an evil minion of Sokar.

    Did something happen between Rite of Passgae and this episode? What makes it even more stand out is the fact that Rite of Passage is such a gentle and caring and team centric feel to it; and the following episode (The Tomb) that team camadarerie seems to be back again.
    I was so focused on the episode itself, I wasn't thinking about the progression here. I can believe there would be some residual tension between the rest of the team and Teal'c because he was the one who was in favor of keeping Nertti and sacrificing Cassie. And maybe Jack is feeling more personally vulnerable because he doesn't deal well with emotions or seeing children hurting, which might make him pull back and be a little more bristlely. But then what happened after this episode (especially given the obvious tension between Daniel and Jack) that could have restored the team relationship? I'm not sure I can answer that question, but maybe I'll notice something rewatching The Tomb that I can't recall at the moment.

    Comment



      Synopsis

      SG-1 gets trapped in an ancient ziggurat along with a Russian team and an alien creature possessed by the Goa'uld.

      Favourite Scene

      Where the Russian Colonel gives the Goa'uld the 'jewel'.

      Favourite Quote

      Daniel (sarcasticly to Russian team member): Yes, you go down the dark hallway alone, and I'll stay in the dark room alone.....

      Review

      You can see Jack's frustration the moment Sam notices a Russian smoke pack lying on an off world site, and then he gets to spend the entire mission with a team of them, despite him telling Hammond they'd be better off doing this alone. The Russians arrive and they all go into the mission info. Jack is as sharp as a knife in this briefing as opposed to his normal poking fun at Daniel and pretending he's bored. He surmises that the Russian team is only in it for the jewel, with they hotly deny. The Russian makes a comment about Jack's P-90, so he hands it over. When teh Russian states he prefers his Russian 85, Jack immediatly jumps in with the fact it's a Yugoslavian weapon, to which the Russian has no reply.

      Once on the planet Jack comes back almsot full force while waiting for Daniel to open the ziggurat, even telling Carter to crack the C4 at one point. Daniel gets the 'combo' shortly after and they all head inside. The team's split up, Teal'c heading with the Russians, and one of the Russians with SG-1. They stumble across a skeleton but Sam realises that the bones have teeth marks, indicating something has eaten the body. The other team finds a sarcophagus but O'Neill warns them to stay away. It is ignored and when they approach, everything starts shaking and it seems like the roof is about to close in. Instead the entrance closes, taking a Russian soldier with it.

      O'Neill is mad, and shouts at the Russian Colonel that where he comes from, losing a member of your team tends to upset one a bit. The Russian Colonel states that where he comes from, casualties are to be expected, which goes against O'Neill's 'never leave anyone behind' mantra. Sam distracts Jack with a question, Daniel shortly after. They end up opening the sarcophagus to reveal a skeleton, again with teeth marks. Daniel discovers that some 'thing' was put in the sarcophagus and killed the man inside in a particularly horrible way as the sarcophogus kept reviving the man as he was being eaten.

      Teal'c and the Russian Colonel find another skeleton, and at the same time the Colonel finds the jewel in the elongings of the deceased. He takes it and follow Teal'c, while meanwhile Sam and her partner are being stalked by the 'thing'. When Jack meets up with Sam, she tells him she senses a presence, that the Goa'uld is inside the 'thing'.

      (And yes, I almost lept several feet in the air when that thing dropped onto Carter.)

      Teal'c determines there's no symbiote inside the 'thing' and surmises with Carter that it was probably in a new host. Carter radios O'Neill that the symbiote may be in a new host and the two Colonels end up pointing their weapons at each other in a stalemate. Both have valid reasons to assume that the other is now the host, Jack's insistence on safety, preventing them from leaving, and the other Colonels eagerness to leave. The team mate with Daniel turns out to be the new host and he confronts O'Neill and his partner to get the jewel. When the Goa'uld turns to point his weapon at Jack, the Russian decides to 'give' him the jewel but tosses him a grenade instead, forcing the roof to collapse and only Jack escapes.

      The Goa'uld does escape just in time to see SG-1 plus the injured Russian ring out before the C4 takes out the entire place.

      At the debriefing Jack gets into an argument with the Russian General about secret orders and how those jeoporadized the mission. The Russian General lets O'Neill know to count on their future participation.

      It's interesting seeing 2 colonels side by side, with very different opinions and motivations. Jack, while he will have a goal, his interest lies in keeping his team safe. The Russian man, once he found the jewel, he was done. Blow the side of the ziggurat so he can get out, who cares who else gets hurt. It then falls onto Jack to keep both teams safe.

      Extras...

      When RDA slaps the wormhole before he steps throught the wormhole, it cost the team a few extra thousand dollars to do that special effect. It looks cool, but it was an expensive cool.

      Implications for Jack and Sam

      This seems like a team episode, and if anything is more geared towards Jack and the relations with the Russians. There's the moment when she distracts him after the tomb door closes but other than that I'm not seeing much ship.

      I am curious about the sensing of the Goa'uld. I haven't had chance to follow along as faithfully as I wanted to, and haven't watched seasons 3 or 4, but to me when Sam is checking for the presence of a Goa'uld she sounds very insecure, relying on Teal'c to confirm/deny her statement. It's as though she's been given a 'power' and is still very new to it, in training if you will. Jack, however, took her word immediatly instead of second guessing her. Anyone else notice that?
      sigpic

      Comment


        Nice review.

        I'm in a bit of a hurry so I can't comment on all the aspects of the episode, but I'd just like to address this part.

        Originally posted by Toomi View Post
        I am curious about the sensing of the Goa'uld. I haven't had chance to follow along as faithfully as I wanted to, and haven't watched seasons 3 or 4, but to me when Sam is checking for the presence of a Goa'uld she sounds very insecure, relying on Teal'c to confirm/deny her statement. It's as though she's been given a 'power' and is still very new to it, in training if you will. Jack, however, took her word immediatly instead of second guessing her. Anyone else notice that?
        The thing that peeved me most about this ep are bad and OOC tactical decisions made for the sake of the plot and its culmination at the end of the ep. Both Teal'c and Sam can sense Goa'uld. Why in heaven were they paired up together when they all went in search for it?? Jack is a seasoned and extremely experienced soldier and tactician and coupling them two up is absolutely nonsensical, having the only two people who can determine who the Goa'uld is together.

        I know this is OT in regards to the ship but I could never get over the obvious Plot!Device manuever so clumsily utilized in this ep. Not that that is the only plot hole here; it's just the most gaping one and it really takes away from my enjoying this one.
        you're so cute when you're slurring your speech but they're closing the bar and they want us to leave


        'What is it, Sebastian? I'm arranging matches.'


        "Religion is far more of a choice than homosexuality. And the protections that we have, for religion --we protect religion-- and talk about a lifestyle choice! That is absolutely a choice. Gay people don't choose to be gay. At what age did you choose not to be gay?" (Jon Stewart, The King of Common Sense)

        Comment


          I admit I'm not a big fan of this episode. I don't hate it like some do; I'm just rather indifferent.

          I'm not crazy about the lighting or the camera work, which I found rather inconsistent. And I agree with slurredspeech that there are numerous plot holes that I try to ignore, but it just dimishes my enjoyment. For example, I never found the creature that scary, and none of it surprised me. I think that's one of the things I don't like about this episode. I could tell they were trying to scare me, but I never felt it.

          Originally posted by Toomi View Post
          Favourite Quote

          Daniel (sarcasticly to Russian team member): Yes, you go down the dark hallway alone, and I'll stay in the dark room alone.....
          I like that one. But I really love it when Jack says: "I'm a big fan of the Russians, and international relations are a bit of a hobby of mine . . . ." Who new?

          You can see Jack's frustration the moment Sam notices a Russian smoke pack lying on an off world site, and then he gets to spend the entire mission with a team of them, despite him telling Hammond they'd be better off doing this alone. The Russians arrive and they all go into the mission info. Jack is as sharp as a knife in this briefing as opposed to his normal poking fun at Daniel and pretending he's bored.
          To me Jack just seems really tense and angry the whole time. There's certainly history between him and the Russians. We know he did ops during the cold war (Gamekeeper) that probably would have brought him in contact with them and he would have lost friends on those missions. We know Jack is not someone who can just forgive and forget because the political situation has shifted. (Look at his reactions to Cromwell in A Matter of Time.) For him it's personal.

          The Russian makes a comment about Jack's P-90, so he hands it over. When the Russian states he prefers his Russian 85, Jack immediatly jumps in with the fact it's a Yugoslavian weapon, to which the Russian has no reply.
          I think that's my favorite scene. Two alpha males sizing each other up and comparing guns. (Little boys and their toys.)

          It's interesting seeing 2 colonels side by side, with very different opinions and motivations. Jack, while he will have a goal, his interest lies in keeping his team safe. The Russian man, once he found the jewel, he was done. Blow the side of the ziggurat so he can get out, who cares who else gets hurt. It then falls onto Jack to keep both teams safe.
          I think Jack takes the loss of men under his command very personally. Even though there was some posturing between the two colonels it's clear to me that, like you said, Jack was doing his best to lookout for both teams. That's why it was such a slap in the face at the end for the Russian Colonel (Checkov) to concede in hindsight that Jack was in command and that he was responsible for the loss of life.

          There is another time when we see two colonels together. In Memento (S6) Jacka and Colonel Ronson butt heads a little. Jack just really prefers to be in control. He's not always good at following orders (unless they come from Sam; then he usually does whatever she tells him ).

          Implications for Jack and Sam

          This seems like a team episode, and if anything is more geared towards Jack and the relations with the Russians. There's the moment when she distracts him after the tomb door closes but other than that I'm not seeing much ship.
          I think a big part of Sam's job in this episode is to try and talk Jack down. The closest thing to a shippy-ish moment in the episode for me is when Jack and Sam are walking into Daniel's lab. We only here the tail end of the conversation, but it's obvious she's trying to mollify him about working with the Russians. There having a bit of an argument and she seems very comfortable challenging him. Then Jack ends it by saying, "Carter, who's side are you on?" He emphasizes that trust they all share and how important that is to him. I get the feeling that he needs her on his side and he trusts her implicitly.

          I am curious about the sensing of the Goa'uld. I haven't had chance to follow along as faithfully as I wanted to, and haven't watched seasons 3 or 4, but to me when Sam is checking for the presence of a Goa'uld she sounds very insecure, relying on Teal'c to confirm/deny her statement. It's as though she's been given a 'power' and is still very new to it, in training if you will. Jack, however, took her word immediatly instead of second guessing her. Anyone else notice that?
          I didn't really notice any hesitation on Sam's part. And of course Jack take's her word immediately. Like I said, he trusts her implicitly. (In Tangent when he's oxygen deprived and mostly out of it Sam asks him if he trusts her and he says "Sure" without thought or hesitation.

          As for her Goa'uld sensing abilities, we first learn about them in Need (S2), but I don't think we've ever learned much detail about how it works or how accurate she is. Jack has her "search" Charlie in Show and Tell (S2) because she can sense things. I'm surprised she didn't pick up on the Tok'ra in the room in Into the Fire (S2) and Out of Mind (S3), but maybe the drugs they were giving her supressed that ability. She also didn't sense the Goa'uld in Rothman or Hawkins in The First Ones (S3), but I believe they mentioned that those symbiotes didn't have naquadah in their blood.

          Comment


            Nice review Toomi. Especially the bit ont he extras. I've nevr watched the commentary/extras on this one so thanks for sharing that (put that on my must do list. )


            Not much to add ship-wise, as there's precious little to be had:


            Originally posted by Toomi View Post


            I am curious about the sensing of the Goa'uld. I haven't had chance to follow along as faithfully as I wanted to, and haven't watched seasons 3 or 4, but to me when Sam is checking for the presence of a Goa'uld she sounds very insecure, relying on Teal'c to confirm/deny her statement. It's as though she's been given a 'power' and is still very new to it, in training if you will. Jack, however, took her word immediatly instead of second guessing her. Anyone else notice that?

            Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
            As for her Goa'uld sensing abilities, we first learn about them in Need (S2), but I don't think we've ever learned much detail about how it works or how accurate she is. Jack has her "search" Charlie in Show and Tell (S2) because she can sense things. I'm surprised she didn't pick up on the Tok'ra in the room in Into the Fire (S2) and Out of Mind (S3), but maybe the drugs they were giving her supressed that ability. She also didn't sense the Goa'uld in Rothman or Hawkins in The First Ones (S3), but I believe they mentioned that those symbiotes didn't have naquadah in their blood.
            Sam's symbiote sensing ability comes from the naquadah in the symbiote. In Into the Fire there's a line of dialogue that states she is extra drugged because she "has naqadah in her" (which, I presume is the thing that helps her sense it in others and hence the reason for the extra drugging is to dull that ability). Yes, as you say, in The First Ones the dialogue states the goa'uld on that planet evolved without naquadah in their make up - hence why Sam doens't have a massive flip out the moment they step foot on a planet infested with the blighters, much less sense them in Rothman or Hawkins.
            Presumably her ability to sense them is as accurate or certain as Teal'c's would be at least. It was one of those annoying plot devices that served a purpose for a handful of episodes and then got forgotten about later in the series - which is a shame considering how massive an advantage it is for her.



            Originally posted by slurredspeech View Post
            The thing that peeved me most about this ep are bad and OOC tactical decisions made for the sake of the plot and its culmination at the end of the ep. Both Teal'c and Sam can sense Goa'uld. Why in heaven were they paired up together when they all went in search for it?? Jack is a seasoned and extremely experienced soldier and tactician and coupling them two up is absolutely nonsensical, having the only two people who can determine who the Goa'uld is together.

            I know this is OT in regards to the ship but I could never get over the obvious Plot!Device manuever so clumsily utilized in this ep. Not that that is the only plot hole here; it's just the most gaping one and it really takes away from my enjoying this one.
            Oh yes, that annoys the heck out of me too. I remember the first time I saw it I was literally screaming at the TV "why, why... come On!" Such a stupid, stupid thing to overlook ad it just makes Jack look even more daft in this episode that he does already (IMO - more of why I think that to follow).

            The other thing I dislike about this episode it the whole attitude Jack has towards the Russians. I appreciate there was a cold war and that there was a time when the Russians were definitely his enemy and he may have witnessed good people lost to that war but... the cold war ended a good ten years before this episode was set. I know he's not a man who forgives easily but, to me, his dislike of the Russians seems more general that specifically related to an event or situation. If there was an intent to show us something specific here then it's lost on the overall feeling that they have given Jack a sterotypical "old school" attitude to the Russians. He has an opinion and a dislike of them with no real grounding. I know his general dislike of all thing Russian is played out in other episodes (Watergate etc.) but this particular episode it just feels like it exists to add dramatic tension to the story that, frankly, should have stood up on its own without that. Of course, a season later this is played out further in when Jack is choosing a new team member and later in Metamorphosis and it makes that episode make some more sense that it would without it here. It doesn't change that fact that I'm not comfortable with Jack's whole attitude here.

            Well between those two points, I'm not overly impressed with this episode. It it's meant to scare, it doesn't and if it's meant to make some kind of point about U.S. and Russian relationships, it doesn't do that either. The only part of the episode that stands out (apart from some lovely one liners from both Jack and the one mentioned before from Daniel) is the method of death chosen for the Goa'uld they find which is, as Jack says, "officially the worst way to go."
            Last edited by Cagranosalis; May 22, 2010, 02:23 PM.
            sigpic

            Comment


              I find it interesting that so many have a problem with Jack's distrust for the Russians, in this case for very good reason. His past experience with them probably was very similar to this one. They always seem to have another agenda and it doesn't always coincide with the actual mission everyone else is on. This isn't my favorite episode either for many reasons but this isn't one of them. He obviously has no problem with them on a personal level or he wouldn't have given a flip about them getting killed or hurt. I would imagine that in his past, long experience in special operations that he has had very little reason to trust the Russians or any other former military enemy.
              sigpic

              Comment


                A short bit on Red Sky:

                I've always liked most of this episode especially Jack reaction to Malthus' men destroying the missile. And thoroughly agree with Rachel "Here he's completely "hot" (in more ways than one)."
                I dislike the flitty dismount from the crates after Jack tells the K'Tau that the Asgard are not gods - "little toothpick arms" etc. It seems as if - so you don't believe me then you deserve your fate and I'm outta here!

                Another note on Jack and science (and many other things) Jack is a rather black and white guy. I don't think he realizes how hard it is for Sam to pull ideas out of her bu...hat. Maybe he has her on too high a pedestal, he expects her to come up with the right idea and do it in a timely fashion. I suppose the same holds true for Daniel's handling of diplomatic problems

                On another note entirely I love the costuming - the women's headdresses were right out of a Flemish painting.
                Last edited by Zoser; May 24, 2010, 07:12 AM.
                sigpic
                Distinguished Service Ribbon Goa'uld Campaign
                My Stories zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Artwork by Mala

                Comment


                  Originally posted by penjab View Post
                  I find it interesting that so many have a problem with Jack's distrust for the Russians, in this case for very good reason. His past experience with them probably was very similar to this one. They always seem to have another agenda and it doesn't always coincide with the actual mission everyone else is on. This isn't my favorite episode either for many reasons but this isn't one of them. He obviously has no problem with them on a personal level or he wouldn't have given a flip about them getting killed or hurt. I would imagine that in his past, long experience in special operations that he has had very little reason to trust the Russians or any other former military enemy.
                  I agree with you. I have no problem with Jack's distrust of the Russians. It makes perfect sense to me.

                  Some may consider the Cold War a historical footnote today, but their were times and places when it ran quite hot. Those who were holding the line in that war (like Jack) have every reason to be mistrusting and hold a grudge. And it's foolish to think that just because the broader global positioning has shifted that it is now all hugs and flowers. US relations with Russia continue to be a tense minefield, even 20 years later. I don't consider Jack's reaction an antiquated cliche. It is an expression of real politik that defines his military character.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Zoser View Post
                    On another note entirely I love the costuming - the women's headdresses were right out of a Flemish painting.
                    But doesn't it seem odd to you that the costuming was Flemish (i.e. Dutch) when this was supposed to be the evolution of a Norse society? It did to me.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by penjab View Post
                      I find it interesting that so many have a problem with Jack's distrust for the Russians, in this case for very good reason. <snipped>

                      See I don't think he does have a very good reason. At least not one that's made apparent in this episode or any others.
                      Not much of Jack's past is given away during the series; we know about some of it through the flashback/mind thingy in The Gamekeeper (which is East Germany) and his dealings with Frank Cromwell ( A Matter Of Time which was Iraq), and later his dealings with Burke (Evolution location not mentioned but not an event he can hold against the Russians personally even if it was in Russia). We can speculate and assume that, due to his length of service and special ops background he will likely have been involved in dodgy cold war shenanigans somewhere along the way, but nothing is ever cited to confirm this.
                      Historically Jack has been shown to be a man who does not forgive easily - if at all - so a lack of forgiveness over a specific event makes sense... but he's also been shown to be a pragmatic man and he's demonstrated fairly adequately that he can and will work with former enemies for the greater good should the need arise (i.e. in dealing his dealings and general attitude to the rebel Jaffa, some of whom would likely have been in battle against him at some point). And he does this, understandably with caution but with very little belligerence.
                      I can fully appreciate that he may have had dealings along these lines with Russian people before but that's pure speculation with no evidence base.

                      I suppose we could argue that the Russians have, in the past, demonstrated a shockingly bad lack of judgement when dealing with all things Stargate but, actually, no more so than the SGC all things considered. The SGC has put Earth or other worlds in jeopardy as many - if not more - times than the the Russians managed in the short time they operated their own gate programme covertly.

                      If there is a specific reason for Jack antagonism towards the Russians then I think it is lost in ambiguity and the overall effect is one of a somewhat outdated and sterotypical attitude towards them. One throaway line about some event or reason might have made it make some more sense (and maybe there was one that was cut out for time).
                      Maybe it seems even more out of place now since the cold war was over more than 20 years ago.


                      He obviously has no problem with them on a personal level or he wouldn't have given a flip about them getting killed or hurt.
                      Agreed. Jack has also shown that he's the kind of man who sees it his duty to protect all those under his command/care, regardless of where they come from or who they are. That's the code of ethics by which he lives, regardless of how he feels about them.


                      Originally posted by Zoser View Post
                      A short bit on Red Sky:

                      I dislike the flitty dismount from the crates after Jack tells the K'Tau that the Asgard are not gods - "little toothpick arms" etc. It seems as if - so you don't believe me then you deserve your fate and I'm outta here!
                      I think that's exactly what he's thinking but I think that belies the fact that he really does care. In other words, the flippancy is another cover for his true feelings on the matter. In much the same way he covers how smart he really is by acting dumb, and how much he really cares for other people by acting like the gruff colonel (which he does all the time with Daniel), this is another facade to hide the real him.

                      Another note on Jack and science (and many other things) Jack is a rather black and white guy. I don't think he realizes how hard it is for Sam to pull ideas out of her bu...hat. Maybe he has her on too high a pedestal, he expects her to come up with the right idea and do it in a timely fashion. I suppose the same holds true for Daniel's handling of diplomatic problems
                      I think he realises but always after the fact. There's no doubt he has her and her genius up on some kind of pedestal and I think if he had a little less respect and admiration for her then he wouldn't have been half so reluctant to make a move on her a lot sooner.


                      (and I only came on to post my next rewatch review )
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post

                        I'm no fan of Unas episodes either but this probably my favourite of them all. Or at least my least hated.
                        I use to feel like that but the Jaffa and Unas stories have grown on me.
                        I have taken an interest in their cultures - strange, I know!

                        Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post
                        One interesting aspect of the Unas is how they have evolved over the series. The first time we meet oen he is an evil monster host to a goa'uld and, essentially, the bad guy. Next time they are a primitive-like clan that takes Daniel captive (presumably for supper). Here we see them turned into the victimised minority that fight and win their freedom (Braveheart in a bottle ). And the next time we see them they are a fully forms, civillised and organised free society - Chaka even acting as a negotiator throughout.
                        Quite an interesting development in a very short time.
                        I don't see this as so strange - don't we see humans at different stages of development. And up a Goa'uld in a Neanderthal and you might get a Ba'al although not quite as dashing! And the last group in Enemy Mine might have a culture but I don't think I'd use the term civilized.




                        Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post
                        Going back to Fluffy's original comment about the morality of this story. It is a very uncomfortable story underneath. We're talking about slavery and the treatment thereof. I know there's a running theme of slavery in SG-1 (the Jaffa and the goa'uld taking hosts/slaves) but it's usually shown in a slightly sanitised... or glamourised way. Here it's very stark and real and the treatment of the Unas is absolutely appalling and made more so by the fact an innocent child bears witness to this. So much so that we see Daniel actually agreeing with Jack's "way" of doing things at one point here; something that almost never happens.
                        But for once Jack doesn't want to act, Jack doesn't want to start the slave rebellion - knowing that innocent child and many others may be collateral damage.
                        sigpic
                        Distinguished Service Ribbon Goa'uld Campaign
                        My Stories zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Artwork by Mala

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post

                          I know his general dislike of all thing Russian is played out in other episodes (Watergate etc.) but this particular episode it just feels like it exists to add dramatic tension to the story that, frankly, should have stood up on its own without that. Of course, a season later this is played out further in when Jack is choosing a new team member and later in Metamorphosis and it makes that episode make some more sense that it would without it here. It doesn't change that fact that I'm not comfortable with Jack's whole attitude here.
                          I met a woman about my age in 1966 who hate the Japanese which I could not understand. I found out later that her father had died in the South Pacific during the war. There may well be something in Jack's past that accounts for his feeling however irrational it seems to us.



                          Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post
                          The only part of the episode that stands out (apart from some lovely one liners from both Jack and the one mentioned before from Daniel) is the method of death chosen for the Goa'uld they find which is, as Jack says, "officially the worst way to go."[/B]
                          The creature didn't scare me either - but being locked in a sarcophagus with it EEEKK!
                          sigpic
                          Distinguished Service Ribbon Goa'uld Campaign
                          My Stories zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Artwork by Mala

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Zoser View Post
                            I met a woman about my age in 1966 who hate the Japanese which I could not understand. I found out later that her father had died in the South Pacific during the war. There may well be something in Jack's past that accounts for his feeling however irrational it seems to us.
                            And I think that's what frustrates me. It's perfectly plausible that Jack might harbour some well founded resentment towards the Russians but without any actual indication of what that is on screen, it just comes across all wrong. I have been thinking about this though; perhaps, being from the UK and of a slightly younger generation (one that doesn't remember the very real brink of nuclear war the USA and Russia came to in the 1960's and had it's own demons and threats to dwell on), I haven't got the mindset to comprehend. Jack, almost certainly, would remember that time - probably as a fairly young child and it may have left an impression. Who knows!


                            Thanks for that picture by the way. Nightmares for me tonight then!
                            sigpic

                            Comment



                              Artwork by RegularAmanda


                              Synopsis
                              SG1 are attending the funeral of Omak, the Tollan leader they originally rescued. As they leave, they are invited back by the Chancellor for discussions. Narim thanks them for attending and hands Sam a holographic message in secret. She plays it as soon as they get back to the SGC. Narim warns them that Omak believed Earth was in danger before his death.
                              SG1 return to Tollana: Jack and Daniel meet with the Chancellor who tells them that their policy on technology has changed and that they are willing to trade an ion cannon for trinium. When Narim hears of it, he assumes that Omak's warning was perhaps about that given Omak's previous stand against giving advanced technology to 'younger' races.
                              Back at the SGC, Sam notes that one ion cannon is not enough that they would need thirty-eight to properly defend the planet. Back on Tollana, Narim has noted that Omak's health implant shows that the authorities delayed in getting to him which is unheard of – he believes Omak was killed. Jack and Daniel go back to the Chancellor with the new demand as Sam and Teal'c help Narim search the records for a hint to what is happening. They find that an ion cannon was fired and Curia records have been deleted. Narim is appalled. More, Jack and Daniel return noting that they've been given the thirty-eight weapons. Sam suggests lacing the trinium with an isotope so they can trace it.
                              They go back to the planet and a reluctant Narim is persuaded to help them. Sam, Daniel and Narim break into the Chancellor's office to read the records of what really happened while Jack and Teal'c track the trinium. As Jack and Daniel discover a mass of bombs that utilise the Tollans phase technology – Narim, Sam and Daniel discover that the firing of the ion cannon was not a test but to warn off a Goa'uld ship but the ship had shields that protected it rendering the cannon useless. The Chancellor enters with Tanith, the Goa'uld that killed Teal'c's lover. Tanith is in the service of another Goa'uld who has threatened to destroy Tollana unless they cooperate in building the weapons. Narim escapes but Tanith leaves and orders the Chancellor to send a weapon to Earth, the Chancellor is conflicted.
                              Meanwhile, Narim meets up with Jack and Teal'c. Jack tells Narim that he knows what the right thing to do is. Narim uses a cannon to destroy the warehouse holding the new bombs. The Goa'uld attack: SG1 escapes to the gate but Narim stays behind to fight the war he has initiated. Back at the SGC, they receive a transmission from a Tollan ship: it's broken-up but it's Narim reporting that the Stargate is destroyed and what is left of the Tollan people are escaping in ships but they are being shot down. The communication suddenly dies.
                              (synopsis taken with permission and thanks from Rachel500’s Aftershocks fanfiction: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4550820/9/Aftershocks_III )


                              Favourite Quote:
                              Jack: “Ah the sound of the other shoe”


                              Favourite Scene:
                              The funeral scene at the start, for purely superficial (not to mention hedonistic) reasons which are explained below.


                              Review

                              This is another one of those mid season 5 episodes that I was quite meh about although subsequent viewings it does grow on me and I like the alien take on the conspiracy theory story. It helps that Jack has some pretty cute lines (big honkin’ space guns, slightly heightened sense of smell etc.) and there’s a lovely bit when Sam tells them they need 38 ion canons and Jack and Daniel simultaneously express their disbelief. It’s a real nice moment for them and their double act continues for some time in the episode which makes it definitely watchable. This is Jack / Daniel banter at it’s very best.

                              In a completely shallow moment, Jack starting out on service dress also makes it watchable since this is a man who makes both extreme scruff and dressed up to the nines look hot. And, yes, he looks pretty hot here. I just needed to say that. If you watch nothing else of this episode, watch that bit (well, if you feel the same way about Jack as I do, watch it anyway. )

                              I like the way Tollana looks very grey and dull. It seems to somehow fit with their rather dour outward appearance/personality. And in all that greyness there’s Narim with Sam’s voice on his computer which is a lovely quirk and, actually, the interior of his house is quite pleasant.

                              There’s a great bit where the scene cuts from Jack and Teal’c finding the weapons and wondering what they are, directly to Narim, Sam and Daniel seeing them demonstrated on screen so we immediately know what we’re seeing while Jack and Teal’c are still unaware. And then the realisation that the bomb can penetrate the iris or any other protection. Narim’s initial naivety over the purpose of them may be indicative to the whole Tollan mindset, brought on by their isolationism and perhaps go some way to explain how the Goa’uld have so easily managed to effectively enslave them to make weapons that will help the conquer the galaxy. A scary thought that a race so advanced and seemingly powerful can be brought down so effectively.

                              It’s interesting to see how Narim, who started the whole thing, gets reluctantly drawn into the situation, convinced by SG-1 – who are much less concerned with protocol and laws – to break laws he holds dear for the pursuit of the truth. It’s also interesting to see how he remains naive and wishing to think the best of his people despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

                              Ultimately though, there’s an ethical dilemma; save yourself and potentially doom others, or fight for what you know it right and doom yourselves. It’s easy to understand why the Tollan curia may have made the wrong choice here, and I think Travell knows that when Tanith tells her to send a weapon through the gate to Earth. They may be willing to make the weapons to save themselves but to actually use them themselves is something they probably...should have seen coming but... didn’t. Maybe this is where the isolationist view they hold puts them at a disadvantage since anyone could have told them that the Goa’uld themselves could not directly attack Earth due to the treaty and anyone with real dealings with the Goa’uld could have told them that this was going to end badly. Ah if only the Tollan had come clean early on; maybe the Asgard could have helped them.

                              It’s never confirmed who the Goa’uld controlling Tanith is. I tend to think, in context of his apparent power and the timeframe, likely to be Anubis. It’s nice to have the seeds of a new all powerful Goa’uld sowed right here without it overwhelming the plot. Nice and easy and gentle and slow build up; something SG- 1’s PTB are particularly good at delivering.

                              It’s also never confirmed, although heavily implied, that Tollan is completely destroyed. Effectively, that storyline was over and, oh look, another dead boyfriend for Sam to notch upon her surprisingly chaste bedpost.



                              Implications for Sam and Jack

                              Well, there’s very little shippyness in this episode at all; they spend a good deal of it apart and there’s not even any banter or the usual Jack self effacing thing, or trying to make her laugh or, well, anything at all. In fact, I could find only one real scene that may or may not have had any significance, if you’re one of those shipper types with the superheavyweight shipper glasses. At the very end, when they are in the control room listening to the transmission from Narim that cuts out – implying possibly that Narim at least, if not the whole of Tollan has fallen - Sam looks away distraught and Jack gives her a sympathetic look.
                              And that’s really it. I feel like a starving man at a feast here; no wonder people call season 5 the season that ship forgot!
                              One thing to say about this episode; while it’s very clear that Narim has feelings for Sam, it is also equally clear that whatever feelings she has for Narim are purely platonic. She’s uncomfortable about hearing her voice on his computer and she greets him in a slightly uncomfortable way one might with someone you know has a thing for you but when you don’t reciprocate. The look on her face when she realises his computer voice is her voice is pretty telling.
                              One other lightly interesting observation here is this it’s Teal’c, early on, that begins a conversation with Sam about Narim’s feelings for her. We never hear what Sam is about to say since Narmin arrives and interrupts them before Sam can comment but it does seem that Teal’c is quite perceptive to the feelings of others around Sam and Jack, and particularly to their feelings for each other – which is something we’ve seen e see quite a lot, and yet more of in the next few seasons.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                Really nice review, I especially liked your comments about the ethical dilemma facing the Tollan, which I think gives Narim a very interesting though short-lived heroic arc through the episode. And yes, Jack in service dress can make just about anything watchable.

                                Originally posted by Cagranosalis View Post

                                Implications for Sam and Jack

                                Well, there’s very little shippyness in this episode at all; they spend a good deal of it apart and there’s not even any banter or the usual Jack self effacing thing, or trying to make her laugh or, well, anything at all. In fact, I could find only one real scene that may or may not have had any significance, if you’re one of those shipper types with the superheavyweight shipper glasses. At the very end, when they are in the control room listening to the transmission from Narim that cuts out – implying possibly that Narim at least, if not the whole of Tollan has fallen - Sam looks away distraught and Jack gives her a sympathetic look.
                                And that’s really it. I feel like a starving man at a feast here; no wonder people call season 5 the season that ship forgot!
                                It's interesting because I think that scene you mention at the end is pretty significant to Sam and Jack's relationship (even without the super glasses ), because to me its a really nice and subtle example of Jack being aware of Sam's feeling and emotions, even though he cannot overtly act upon them. It actually reminds me a bit of the scene from Heroes where Sam is distraught over Janet's death and Jack's almost-death, though obviously without the same weight of emotion. And I think if they'd been in say her lab instead of in the control room with the others, I think Jack would have at least put a comforting arm around Sam's shoulders in addition to the sympathetic look.

                                sigpic

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X