Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Rachel500]

[<snip>12. I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women" argument.

People actually believe this? "Braincheck! I need a braincheck in aisle six! Aisle six, braincheck, please!"

<snip>

LOL. I love that.

[Zoser]

1. I don't want them to get married. Nor do I see them wanting to get married.

Truthfully, I don't see them doing this either. They're too work-oriented, esp. now that Jack's head of Homeworld Sec and Carter's in command of the George Hammond - a front-line role that's going to earn her a lot of scrutiny, both as a commander and as a female commander.

If it was known that she and Jack were in a relationship, what kinds of questions do you think that would bring up, given that it's pretty much public knowledge they worked together on the Stargate Project? Even among those who knew of them, but didn't know them, it would become a problem. Technically, Jack's no longer her direct-line superior - although Sam would report to whoever the "General Of The Space Navy" is, who probably reports to Landry, who reports to Jack. So there's still a chain of command, albeit a little blurred.

I don't see them being public about their relationship at all - for Sam's career, mostly, but also because it's habit, it's being careful, and they don't feel the need to share with their colleagues. It's no longer strictly "against regs" but it's still not "okay".

2. No kids. I just can't see them having children.

Agree. Not for Jack after Charlie, and Sam has never been particularly maternal. She loves Cassie, sure, and Cassie's kinda their adopted daughter, I imagine, but that's about as much as they can handle. Their work isn't condusive to children, and their lives are quite happy without.

3. I'm not a big fan of either of them retiring/resigning for the sake of their relationship.

I was for a brief span. I'm not anymore. Their work with the AirForce is too much of who they are; they can't give that up and still be whole enough to carry on a relationship. I could have seen this, say, at the end of S8. But Jack being promoted to Homeworld Sec? Changes the ballgame.

8. If I wasn't a die-hard S/J shipper I could definitely see Jack with Kerry and Sam with Barret.

I am a die-hard S/J shipper, and I can still see Jack/Kerry and Sam/Barrett. But since it's implied Sam/Jack in the background of "future seasons" (Sam's words to Keller in SGA: Trio), I imagine that Jack is very careful around Kerry, and Sam, when she encounters Barrett, is similarly careful - even though there was nothing there in that case.

9. Sam/Teal'c thing worked for me in Unending (I am very uncomfortable with its implications and consequences in normal timeline though)

I only watched SG1: Unending once. There was Sam/Teal'c?

11. I don't think theirs was "love at first sight".

I don't believe in "love at first sight". Attraction at first sight, yes. Love? No. Love grows - perhaps out of attraction of the body ("chemistry" - lord, how I loathe that word), perhaps out of attraction of the mind or spirit.

12. I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women" argument.

People actually believe this? "Braincheck! I need a braincheck in aisle six! Aisle six, braincheck, please!"

14. I don't think Jonas Hansen abused Sam in any way; physically, sexually or verbally. I think she got out of that relationship as soon as she started to feel uncomfortable.

I'd say that his relationship with her would have had the tags of emotional abuse to it. Controlling personality, god-complex, he was probably a very possessive guy. I imagine him being very hands-on, and Sam being very "hands off!" Still, I can see Hansen being one of the few guys to seriously pay attention to her, and that turning her head and, to some degree, switching off her warning signs. She does, howeer, have a strong sense of her own boundaries, so she wouldn't put up with his **** for very long after she saw the writing on the wall.

15. I think Jack and Sara had been happy together and he was still in love with her for a big chunk of season 1.

I really don't get why people have such a problem with the characters having been in love with other people at some stage? It's not like we're all mooning around waiting for our true love to turn up...

Was it love? Yes. Did it last? No. Sometimes that happens. You can love more than one person in your life, you can love more than one person at once - although I do believe you have to make a committment to one or risk wrecking things. Biologists may argue that we're not made to be monogamous; but emotionally and psychologically, it's not in us to share that which we really love.

I agree with Seldear's answers.

At one point I had hope they would marry but don't think that's in the cards. It certainly doesn't stop them from being a couple when they can and having a deep loving relationship.
I think it was lust at first sight - love needs time to develop.

[Tachyon]

1. I don't want them to get married. Nor do I see them wanting to get married.
I see them seeing marriage as a possibility, but neither of them is rushing to the altar. I see them having this kind of “never say never” mentality about the issue.

2. No kids. I just can't see them having children.
I don’t see kids in their cards either, so to speak.

3. I'm not a big fan of either of them retiring/resigning for the sake of their relationship.
I’m with you on this one. Both of them love their jobs and as I see it, they have made a peace with the fact that there is a third party in their relationship and that would obviously be the Air Force.

4. I see their ship as part of team interactions, not a separate thing. What's happening between them influences other team members and what's happening between, say, Jack and Teal'c influences S/J ship.
Their team is tightly knitted, so in that respect I agree. The work and team come first.

5. I like Laira and Anise/Freya.
Oy. I did not like Laira. Ainse/Freya is alright for me.

6. I can't stand Martouf.
Not a fan of his either.

7. I used to like Orlin but after reading a few posts (made by a guy!) explaining why Orlin's behaviour was creepy and inexcusable I tend to agree with that poster's reasoning.
He was a weirdo.

8. If I wasn't a die-hard S/J shipper I could definitely see Jack with Kerry and Sam with Barret.
I can see Jack with Kerry, but not Sam with Barret. Barret always seemed to be the one who was more interested.

9. Sam/Teal'c thing worked for me in Unending (I am very uncomfortable with its implications and consequences in normal timeline though)
I did not see Sam/Teal’c thing in Unending.

10. I don't think either Sam or Jack stayed celibate for 8 years. I can see them having one night stands/short affairs off-screen.
I see them having flings here and there.

11. I don't think theirs was "love at first sight".
Me neither. I don’t even believe such a thing exists.

12. I don't buy "Jack had been a male chauvinist before he met Sam and it was she who changed his opinion about women" argument.
I don’t see Jack in that way either.

13. As recently discussed, I do believe Sam was quite happy with her job and friends and without a guy for the first 5-6 seasons.
I believe that as well. She loved her job passionately and was quite happy to give it her all.

14. I don't think Jonas Hansen abused Sam in any way; physically, sexually or verbally. I think she got out of that relationship as soon as she started to feel uncomfortable.
I don’t think that either. People change during time and I think even Jonas was a little different during the days of their relationship until flipping on that alien planet for good.

15. I think Jack and Sara had been happy together and he was still in love with her for a big chunk of season 1.
I agree. I think Jack loved Sara still on season 2, though the love to her diminished gradually as the time went on.

16. I don't believe that the age difference between Jack and Sam is so big that he's old enough to be her father.
He’s not old enough to be Sam’s dad.

17. I can see Jack and Kerry becoming friends.
I can see that as well. Their relationship did not have a chance to become deep enough to ruin a possible friendship. I don’t see them becoming best of friends, but certainly friends who occasionally ask how the other is doing, etc.

[EvenstarSRV]

Re Sam/Teal'c in Unending, IMO I think this is something that you either see or don't see depending on your perspective on the show, it was certainly nothing as overt as Daniel/Vala was in that episode.

All that was shown on screen was the hug after Landry dies, them holding hands briefly during one of the musical montages, and then Teal'c looking at Sam an extra beat during the gate room scene at the end. If you wish you can see all of that as just deep friendship or you can take it as friendship developing into something more over their years on the ship, but both interpretations are equally valid, IMO.

[Tachyon]

All that was shown on screen was the hug after Landry dies, them holding hands briefly during one of the musical montages, and then Teal'c looking at Sam an extra beat during the gate room scene at the end. If you wish you can see all of that as just deep friendship or you can take it as friendship developing into something more over their years on the ship, but both interpretations are equally valid, IMO.

I think I have to rewatch the episode and pay extra attention to those mentioned scenes. I'm sure they can be interpreted in both ways. My problem is that I simply don't remember those scenes at all.

[Tachyon]

So I think Exodus was the last episode analyzed/reviewed. Next would be the season 5 starter - Enemies. Any takers?

[KayLyne]

Re Sam/Teal'c in Unending, IMO I think this is something that you either see or don't see depending on your perspective on the show, it was certainly nothing as overt as Daniel/Vala was in that episode.

All that was shown on screen was the hug after Landry dies, them holding hands briefly during one of the musical montages, and then Teal'c looking at Sam an extra beat during the gate room scene at the end. If you wish you can see all of that as just deep friendship or you can take it as friendship developing into something more over their years on the ship, but both interpretations are equally valid, IMO.

Plus the fact that Amanda mentioned in the dvd commentary that she & CJ were trying to do some subtle S/T shippy moments throughout to give hint to a relationship.

[Cagranosalis]

So I think Exodus was the last episode analyzed/reviewed. Next would be the season 5 starter - Enemies. Any takers?

I'm in the process of organising the rewatch at the moment. I was waiting for enough people to volunteer to do the write ups and now have them. I did say we'd restart after Easter but then RL for me (aka the shipmeet etc.) has meant I've been busy so we won't start until 26th April. I'll be PMing out the schedule later today to those who kindly volunteered to write up the reviews.
If you want to volunteer to do a couple of the write ups, I'm more than happy to jig the schedule about to add you in.

[Cagranosalis]

Just a reminder to all following, that the Shipper rewatch starts again tomorrow with Enemies.

The schedule is as follows:


Mon 26th April: Enemies: Cags
Thur 29th April: Threshold: Toomi
Mon 3rd May: Ascension: Josiane
Thur 6th May: The Fifth Man: Starlover
Mon 10th May: Red Sky: Cags
Thur 13th May: Rite Of Passage: Josiane
Mon 17th May: Beast Of Burden: Fluffy
Thur 20th May: The Tomb: Toomi
Mon 24th May: Between To Fires: Cags
Thur 27th May: 2001: Josiane
Mon 31st May: Desperate Measures: Cags
Thur 3rd June: Wormhole X-treme: Fluffy
Mon 7th June: Proving Ground: Toomi
Thu 10th June: 48 Hours: Toomi
Mon 14th June: Summit: Cags
Thur 17th June: Last Stand: Fluffy
Mon 21st June: Fail Safe: Josiane
Thur 24th June: The Warrior: Toomi
Mon 28th June: Menace: Fluffy
Thur 1st July: The Sentienl: Cags
Mon 5th July: Meridian: Fluffy
Thur 8th July: Revelations: Josiane

[m_wendy_r]

YAHOO! Glad to see it starting back up!

[yessika]

YAHOO! Glad to see it starting back up!

[mara-anni]

Just dropping off a new fic I've published onto FF.net in case anyone is interested.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5925031/1/Going_Under

[KayLyne]

Finished a few new SJ wallpapers this weekend: - for your viewing pleasure
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/u...Jcabinfish.jpg
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/u.../sg1circle.jpg
http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/u...sg1soldier.jpg (this one is mainly Sam, but there is Jack right in the middle!)

[Cagranosalis]

Officially kicking off the Season 5 Rewatch!

Just a couple of things to remind everyone:

1. By all means share your opinions / beliefs / ideas, however please respect each other's. The puropose of this rewatch is not to try and change anyone's opinion, but to share your own thoughts on the episodes. There's no right or wrong here; only perspective and everyone's perspective is equally valid.

2. With that in mind, remember this is a shipper thread so the focus of the discussions in naturally going to pro Sam/Jack relationship. This is one of the few places in GW where we pro-Sam/Jack shippers can freely discuss and speculate without fear of negative or anti--ship sentiments. We'd like to hear all opinions but we'd like everyone to respect the pro-ship sentiment.

3. The dates posted above are guidelines and the posting of the episodes may vary by a day each way. Please don't feel like you need to cease discussing an episode just because the next one has been posted. If you have something valid and relevant to say, say it!

4. If you're reading and lurking, please join in!


Happy Rewatching!

[Cagranosalis]

Banner by me!

Synopsis

Following a disastrous attempt to help the Tok'ra relocate, SG-1 and Jacob Carter/Selmak find themselves catapulted into uncharted territories aboard their mothership along with Apophis' ship. Meanwhile Teal'c is missing assumed dead after Jack was forced to leave him behind of Vorash. A third ship turns up which turns out to be replicators. First they overtake Apophis' ship and Apophis - with a healed Teal'c who has also been brainwashed into being loyal to him again, take over SG-1's ship. There's a battle with replicators and with Apophis' Jaffa and the replicators expedite the trip back to home turf by speeding up the ships so they fly much, much faster (quite how is never fully explained). Then SG-1 rescue Teal'c*coughshootandtakehimprisoner* and escape aboard a small transport ship, while setting the self destruct of the mothership - with Apophis on board - and letting it crash into a planet.



Favourite Scene

The scene where the following line comes from...



Favourite Line

Sam: "Welcome to my life."



Review


What a great action packed way to kick off the season! I absolutely love this episode. It's impossible to review it entirely without referring to part 1 Exodus and I do think the two-parter is one of those episodes you show your friends when you want them to see what the best of SG-1 has to offer.
I think the element that really sells this to me is Jacob Carter, because he always lifts any scene he's in. I love the way he plays off Jack - I think the two have a great on screen dynamic and we really get a great chance to see it here. It's equally thrilling to see some great Sam/Jacob interaction too.
There's one very interesting scene near the start, set back at the SGC where the Tok'ra and General Hammond are speculating on what might have happened to the mothership SG1 and Selmak/Jacob was on. (I'll take just a moment to fangurl the way this scene is shot, because it's one of those trademark Martin Wood long shots that cuts through walls and from room to room - a technique that reached the peak of perfection with that wonderful opening scene in Continuum, by the way. ) Anyway, back to the scene; while the Tok'ra are content to declare Selmak a fallen war hero, Hammond isn't ready to give up on SG-1 yet. That's an interesting difference between the Tok'ra attitude and the Earth nobody-gets-left-behind one. It's this difference that has been toyed with throughout season 4 and continues on into later seasons culminating in the point where, by Season 7, the Tok'ra, SGC and, by then Rebel Jaffa, realise they cannot work together so closely because they all have far too different morals and ideas of how to fight the same war.
It's great to see Teal'c get a meaty storyline in an arc that spans three episodes and ultimately provides us with the back-story as to how and why he reached the point of rebelling against Apophis.
And, of course, I can't fail to mention that overall, it's a great solid team episode with some lovely moments between individuals; two between Sam and Jack that come to mind is when they're walking down the corridor and she explains how she knows the layout of the ship, and later when they're trapped and Jack asks her to hotwire the door. There’s nothing romantic about them but lovely scenes nonetheless.
And finally, I love the way this episode is shot and lit scored etc. ; it just looks really gorgeous!


Implications For Sam and Jack.

Well at first it's tempting to view the surface of this as very ship-lite but, actually, emotionally there's a lot going on for Jack that has implications on how he sees the world and conducts his relationships with others.
The first thing that comes to mind is his interaction with Jacob. There's so many similarities between them that it's hard not to wonder if some of the attraction for Sam is just that (and no, I don't mean as in Jack being a father figure, I mean Sam falling for a guy who has the same humour/sarcasm/sense of duty/honour as her father.. ) Jacob is older and more seasoned and his snark (for want of a better word) tends to be much more restrained - whereas Jack snarks all the time but the overall approach is the same. They both have this stubborn streak too and I get the impression Sam's "Welcome to my life" isn't just an expression of what it's like having Jacob as a father but also subtly aimed at Jack too, as in "this is what I have to put up with from you.".
Not particularly shippy but a nice observation; there's a subtle friendly little power play between Jack and Jacob throughout the episode, with the authority switching back and forward between them as needed.

There's also an interesting conversation between Jack and Daniel that takes place while they still believe Teal'c is dead:

Daniel: "I don't suppose you want to talk about what happened on Vorash."
Jack: (long pause.) "not really."
Daniel: "Didn't think so."
Another long pause before Jack proceeds to tall Daniel some of what happened, blaming himself for it.

There's a few things about this scene that are relevant: firstly Jack's initial reluctance to talk about this. It's clear he's deeply affected by Teal'c's apparent death and we've seen before this and since that Jack has to be almost dragged kicking and screaming to do that talky feely emotional thing.
Secondly, the entire conversation neither Jack nor Daniel are looking at each other; Jack is lying down and Daniel is sitting facing away from him. It's actually very awkward and Daniel's questions / responses are tentative. Would Jack have said even as much as he had if they'd been face to face? I think not.
Finally, Jack blames himself completely, despite the fact he couldn't do anything and, when Daniel tries to help him see this he still protests that his best efforts were not good enough.
Now I know this is a conversation between Daniel and Jack and you may be thinking ' how does this have any implication on Jack and Sam?' but actually, imagine Jack - this emotionally repressed person we see here - trying to have any kind of relationship with anyone. He'd be really hard work and I think he knows that and I think it influences the way he sees his future (or not in his mind) relationship with Sam. I’ll leave you to speculate on that.