Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[josiane]

Great review Cags! Sadly, like Rachel, I have to spread the love some more before I can green you

I'm with both of you on agreeing that this is an absolutely brilliant episode - it's no wonder that it regularly gets voted one of the best by all sorts of fans, because, really, it has everything in it that makes Stargate great. The humour, the tricky problem to solve, the banter and interaction between the team, that underlying core of seriousness with both Malachi's actions and that amazing reaction from Jack, and of course, a bit of ship thrown in there for good measure

But none of that is specifically what makes this episode great; what makes it great it that last scene back on the planet, when Jack’s trying to convince Malachi to turn off the machine and the episode does an amazing flip from total humour to utter angst. The pain on Jack’s face as he shouts out in empathy and frustration, about the loss of his son; it’s raw and heartfelt. One of the few times we ever really see Jack’s emotional guard down, and the hesitation - he can’t talk about it, even if he wants to - is exactly what it’s like when the loss of a loved one is still so raw that you just can't talk about it without cracking. I can’t stress enough how awesome Richard Dean Anderson’s acting is here, and indeed throughout this episode. I’ll also take a moment to give credit to Christopher Judge too since he rarely ever gets much and he does such an incredible job of playing Teal’c so stoical and straight when, in fact CJ’s real life personality is anything but.

Absolutely. And I think that moment is all the more powerful because of the light-heartedness of everything that's gone before. The episode has been carrying you along on this really fun ride, and then suddenly it drops you like a stone and wham! Out of nowhere you're seeing this absolutely heart-breaking scene. Just brilliant.

I also think this episode subconsciously reveals that Jack really isn’t as dumb as he tries to pretend to be, because he certainly doesn’t have a problem learning Latin (which is by no means an easy language) even if it’s obvious he find it interminably boring to do so.

Jack quite clearly has a natural facility for languages. We see him speaking Spanish very comfortably in Evolution, and the grammar pedantry comes right from a linguist's heart. There've been speculations at times about what Jack's degree was in - I'd go with something language-related for sure.

The first thing that comes to mind is that, immediately after that pivotal forceshield scene we’re all back to business. I might even say Jack’s a bit flirty with Sam there at the start; at least he does his usual "let’s say something to get a smile out of her" thing he does. Whether that’s overcompensating for the enormity of what happened (i.e. it’s all cool and we’re normal… yeah we can do this) or whether they’ve just completely buried the whole thing under a big steaming pile of DENIAL and are steadfastly ignoring even their own feelings I can’t say.

I think it could be either, and in fact is probably a bit of both. They might neither of them be thinking about it, deliberately, but it's bound to be there lurking in the back of their minds, and this is Jack's way of dealing with that - remember his default mode when threatened is to go back to humour, so I think it's not surprising that comes out here.

And I can hardly discuss this episode without mentioning that kiss. This is the moment that we have unequivocal proof (in case you had any doubts) that the feelings he has for Sam are the romantic kind. And, you know what else? This also it unequivocal proof Sam feels the same way because not only does she not push him away but, once over the shock, she snakes her arm up and pulls him closer. Somewhere in all that, tongues start duelling and saliva gets exchanged (And I’ll take just a second to be immensely jealous of Amanda Tapping at this point. )
What’s more, not only does this give us proof those feelings are romantic love, but it gives him proof too. And that’s the reason for that slightly… ok a lot lovesick puppy look he’s giving her right after. He’s completely smitten and, poor old Sam; totally clueless and she’ll never remember this.

Only really quoting this bit to SQUEEEEEEE!

So why resign beforehand? Blowing off all the usual arguments about him being a man of honour etc. or, at least adapting them, maybe the reason he resigned was because he really was hoping that it’s like the fairy tales and the kiss breaks the spell. Maybe a little part of him hoped it would not reset this time and kind of take the choice out of his hands. But of course, if it doesn’t reset then he’d hardly want to screw over both their careers so resigning is really more an insurance policy than an necessity. Because, face it, no consequences, why bother?

I'm of the opinion it was an insurance policy too, a 'just-in-case'. There's also possibly the idea that if didn't resign before Sam might be more likely to push him away or object? Going back to your comment about how the kiss gives Jack proof these feelings they have are romantic on both sides, he's got to have felt a little nervous about doing it. I think the fact that the kiss comes last in the montage kind of indicates he had to work up the courage for a few loops (as well as also working best narratively, as the climax and to allow for the cut to that lovely scene afterwards where he's looking at her like his every waking dream come true ), and maybe the resignation was one way of eliminating a possible obstacle? Although of course I like to think Sam would have kissed him back regardless

I know there’s a lot of speculation about if there was more than one kiss and, frankly I think so. Jack’s going to want to do that over again, for sure. There’s nothing I like more than reading WoO kiss scenario fanfics (and that’s probably one of the reasons I love this episode so much) but I also need to say I think he probably stopped short of going any further. Because ultimately, what would be the point if she didn’t remember?

Multiple kisses? Absolutely there were! But no, nothing else. And the man of honour thing comes in here too for sure. To do anything more when Sam would not remember it is a bit icky, really.

And thus, by the end of the episode, we’re back to the fairly normal equilibrium of Sam and Jack being friendly and slightly flirty and, I think, they truly have pushed aside the enormity of what happened recently; at least enough to work together on the same level as before and to allow their guards down a bit. I think there must have been some introspection on their part, independently because I don’t think they talked about it, but whatever the reason they seem to have both come to the conclusion that they can deal with this thing and they can work well regardless of it and despite all their feelings, they have also come to like each other as friends too. When talking about there being lots of other reasons besides regulations keeping them apart, one thing I have always thought was some of it was fear that, if a romantic relationship didn't work (for whatever reason) they would risk losing their friendship too. It's a lot to ask someone to put on the line, as well as the sacrifices they would have to make to their professional lives.

Good point. And I think it says a lot about their capacity for denial that D&C/Upgrades isn't actually the wake-up call, but that they carry on thinking they can just carry on without any problems all the way to Entity. It was the moment of revelation in one sense, when they realised it was something big, and potentially something disastrous, but I think they feel afterwards that they've dodged the bullet, got away with it. They still need to learn that it's their normal, everyday behaviour towards one another that is problematic too, not just big one-offs like getting stuck either side of a forceshield after your judgement has been seriously impaired by an alien device.

[Cagranosalis]

I notice you credited both Jann and I on it, but that is my .gif, not Jann's. But the point is, yes, *I* made a kiss gif because that is the only real they-both-meant-it-and-wanted to be kissing kiss Sam and Jack ever have had onscreen (even if they both don't remember it). What's great about it is, in effect, it's a second reveal because, rather than simply being told Sam reciprocates Jack's feelings at the end of D&C, we're shown she does here in WoO which, IMHO, is a far more interesting way of seeing it .

Well actually, that particular gif I posted I did get from Jann's (Starlover) PB with her permission and I know she makes gifs too, but the one I was talking about wasn't that one anyway; it was the one where Jack's in the mess / commisary (which is it?) and playing with his tea and Sam comes in and there's speech/thought bubbles there. I think that's your one too isn't it?
It's even noted on the commentary (which I will also mention is worth listening to, and one of my favourite PDL commentaries actually) that there's a moment between them here.

I must admit, at the time of first watching, I was a little miffed there wasn't more fall out from the D&C confessions in the episodes that immediately followed but actually, it all did come back and bite them on the bums in the end; just a little bit later on than I had realised it would, hich again deserves a fangurl moment for and excellently plotted season arc.

Jack quite clearly has a natural facility for languages. We see him speaking Spanish very comfortably in Evolution, and the grammar pedantry comes right from a linguist's heart. There've been speculations at times about what Jack's degree was in - I'd go with something language-related for sure.

Hmm, good point, actually. Maybe his tedium isn't so much with the learning a language as with having to go through the same thing every day. I do love the fact he's a grammar pedant, although I've been known to call him on some things (like the preposition thing but that's really OT so I'll save it )

I'm of the opinion it was an insurance policy too, a 'just-in-case'. There's also possibly the idea that if didn't resign before Sam might be more likely to push him away or object? Going back to your comment about how the kiss gives Jack proof these feelings they have are romantic on both sides, he's got to have felt a little nervous about doing it. I think the fact that the kiss comes last in the montage kind of indicates he had to work up the courage for a few loops (as well as also working best narratively, as the climax and to allow for the cut to that lovely scene afterwards where he's looking at her like his every waking dream come true ), and maybe the resignation was one way of eliminating a possible obstacle? Although of course I like to think Sam would have kissed him back regardless

On the bolded bits, firstly yes, I thought about that too (Sam pushing him away) although I do think spur of the moment she would have just reacted just the same even if he hadn't resigned first. It would have been afterwards she would have been horrified by the enormity of the breach in regulations she'd just participated in.
On the second but, oh yes, I think that's a good observation. There was always a possibility in his own mind that she might not reciprocate. I don't think he doubted her feelings (bear in mind she made her own unseen confession after his in the previous episode) but he might have doubted where she wanted to go with them. I think this kiss - and her reaction - not only gives us proof but almost gives Jack proof too; that Sam would actually be quite receptive to taking out the room after all. You have to wonder at what kind of insecurities lay beneath for him afterwards not to push the issue in the face of all that overwhelming evidence that it'd be awesome.

Multiple kisses? Absolutely there were! But no, nothing else. And the man of honour thing comes in here too for sure. To do anything more when Sam would not remember it is a bit icky, really.

I actually had a thought about this and... yes and no. While I get the argument that it would be dishonourable for Jack to do anything more with her, I would argue that if Sam - reset button aside - had intimated she wanted to take it further than a kiss, or if she'd actively and willingly participated in such an act, it would not have been perfectly normal consensual sex between two adults in love and absolutely nothign at all wrong with that.
The sticky part comes with Jack remembering and knowing her carnally and her not being aware of that. He, alone would have moved their relationship to a more intimate level and how he's supposed to deal with that emotionally. It's would almost be a bit of a reverse of the situation with AU Sam in Point Of View really. Can open, worms everywhere (my favourite seaosn 4 phrase methinks. )
Although in a sense it does becomes sort of a violation for her then because of the intimacy of sex and the things he knows about her - if you think of the time loops as all creating their own little short lived AUs; the version of her that exists alongside him (after the time loop is broken) did not agree to sex with him (although I bet if you asked her... ) and him having that knowledge of her is wrong... and icky.
Good job Jack's got enough control over his, uh, malebrain to stopped at just snoggage then.

[JenniferJF]

Well actually, that particular gif I posted I did get from Jann's (Starlover) PB with her permission and I know she makes gifs too, but the one I was talking about wasn't that one anyway; it was the one where Jack's in the mess / commisary (which is it?) and playing with his tea and Sam comes in and there's speech/thought bubbles there. I think that's your one too isn't it?

Yup. But that first gif is mine, too... I know cause I have the original on my harddrive and remember doing the color correction (and no way did someone else make one from scratch with the same exact properties as mine. Where Hammond's face is cut is a dead giveaway...) But I've seen it credited to several various people.. proving watermarks of some kind are always a good idea. (and, honestly, I don't care.. it's just sort of funny how that one has gotten around cause at the time I spent hours on it cause I had to crop each frame slightly off from the one before in order to keep the kiss centered and wondered if it was worth it)

Maybe his tedium isn't so much with the learning a language as with having to go through the same thing every day. I do love the fact he's a grammar pedant, although I've been known to call him on some things (like the preposition thing but that's really OT so I'll save it )

My John was in the Army SF and everyone there learns - fluently - at least one foreign language based on the geographical region the unit they're assigned to specializes in (he can still speak and understand a mean-Egyptian Arabic). A propensity for learning foreign languages and being able to speak them nearly like a native is, in fact, for obvious reasons, one of the many requirements for joining the SF. If the AF is similar then Jack might have learned Spanish that way, which considering his old colleague had supposedly stayed down in South America (Evolution) would make sense.

While I get the argument that it would be dishonourable for Jack to do anything more with her, I would argue that if Sam - reset button aside - had intimated she wanted to take it further than a kiss, or if she'd actively and willingly participated in such an act, it would not have been perfectly normal consensual sex between two adults in love and absolutely nothign at all wrong with that.
The sticky part comes with Jack remembering and knowing her carnally and her not being aware of that. He, alone would have moved their relationship to a more intimate level and how he's supposed to deal with that emotionally. It's would almost be a bit of a reverse of the situation with AU Sam in Point Of View really. Can open, worms everywhere (my favourite seaosn 4 phrase methinks. )

I can't see Jack doing it because I think, for him, sex and intimacy are fairly big deals and he is, by nature, fairly monogomous in his thinking. Or, in other words, there's no such thing for him as 'casual sex' (which is partly why I don't think he could simply dump Kerry in Threads and her letting him go was a gift) and so *he* wouldn't have done it because it would have been difficult if not impossible for him to maintain the proper detachment afterwards even if she didn't remember it herself.

And as to why he resigned first.. honestly, I think because it was funnier that way and served as an opening to get into the scene from a writing/directing viewpoint... I know, not a fun answer but that's my honest opinion. Plus it meant they didn't have to put in with waves of people who take this sort of thing (the rules and the technical stuff) far too seriously and would complain if he hadn't (you know.. they're the guys they're talking about at the beginning of MSt3K - "repeat to yourself it's just a show...)

Yeah.. I know.. it's me saying that. Ironic, no?

[Cagranosalis]

Yup. But that first gif is mine, too... I know cause I have the original on my harddrive and remember doing the color correction (and no way did someone else make one from scratch with the same exact properties as mine. Where Hammond's face is cut is a dead giveaway...) But I've seen it credited to several various people.. proving watermarks of some kind are always a good idea. (and, honestly, I don't care.. it's just sort of funny how that one has gotten around cause at the time I spent hours on it cause I had to crop each frame slightly off from the one before in order to keep the kiss centered and wondered if it was worth it)

I think you can safely assume that one was very much worth making then!

To be fair to Jann, I never asked her if she made it; just assumed she did because I know she does gifs, and saw it in her PB and asked if I could link to it. Happy to give credit where due though because it's an awesome gif.

[Petra]

Just a quick word about the Tok'ra mini-arch not being the first mini-arch in the show. The first one was "There but for the grace of God/Politics/In the serpent's lair/grasp" back in season 1.

I can’t stress enough how awesome Richard Dean Anderson’s acting is here, and indeed throughout this episode. I’ll also take a moment to give credit to Christopher Judge too since he rarely ever gets much and he does such an incredible job of playing Teal’c so stoical and straight when, in fact CJ’s real life personality is anything but.

Since we are discussing acting, I started a thread in SG-1 folder about best performances given in the series by SG-1 cast. Feel free to drop a line
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...-the-SG-1-cast

On the more technical side, it’s never really fully explained how the whole time machine device works, although we find out a great deal about the Ancient’s history through this episode. And did Daniel actually get killed the first time? Malachi’s words and single mindedness at achieving his end goal seem to indicate he did.

When Joe Mallozzi was asked about it he said that no, Daniel wasn't killed and such interpretation didn't even occur to the writers.

Later on though, when Jack’s looping, there’s a moment between him and Sam where you can see he’s really rather wistful. He’s a bit depressed anyway because the looping is starting to take its toll and Sam comes along, spouts some technobabble and Jack doesn’t even really have the heart to tell her to stop or cut to the chase like he normally does. I think she’s trying to cheer him up (oh where’s Jenn’s brilliant gif - that sums it up) and it works to an extent but, when she goes he’s back to square one, only with a definite air of regret. I really think we see a moment there when Jack’s longing for her breaks through his facade. It's something we really only see fully maybe three times after that so it's rare indeed. All of which builds up of course, to him doing just what he desires in the end, when he realises there are no consequences.

I'm assuming that you mean the scene in the commissary when they mention year 1969? I agree that Jack seems a bit down in this scene and I could never figure out why. It can't be that he's tired of loops, because this is just the second (or the first? I'm not sure how to count them..) loop. And I agree that Sam tries to cheer him up, even if I think originally she just wanted more scientific details She's also very flirty at first.. So I like your explanation, but more in the contex of D&C than looping, if it makes sense.

What’s more, not only does this give us proof those feelings are romantic love, but it gives him proof too. And that’s the reason for that slightly… ok a lot lovesick puppy look he’s giving her right after. He’s completely smitten and, poor old Sam; totally clueless and she’ll never remember this.

And yet a lot of folks interpret it as curiosity/lust/leering.

So why resign beforehand? Blowing off all the usual arguments about him being a man of honour etc. or, at least adapting them, maybe the reason he resigned was because he really was hoping that it’s like the fairy tales and the kiss breaks the spell. Maybe a little part of him hoped it would not reset this time and kind of take the choice out of his hands. But of course, if it doesn’t reset then he’d hardly want to screw over both their careers so resigning is really more an insurance policy than an necessity. Because, face it, no consequences, why bother?

I don't think Jack is a type who believes in fairytales. I kinda think that he made it for himself, to be able to remember kissing her as a guy, just Jack, and not as her CO, which would be a little icky.
On a more practical side, it was a good way to silence the antis and those complaining that he took adventage of his superior position.

I know there’s a lot of speculation about if there was more than one kiss and, frankly I think so.

I agree. I think they kissed quite a lot, but didn't go further.
Oh, and is it this kiss that RDA joked about? you know, that he repeated this scene as many times as he could get away with?

There’s also a moment back on the planet when the humour turns to angst. It takes a lot for Jack to say what he did and you see the camera cut to the reaction shots from the other, but it’s obvious Sam is most affected. Is that shippy? I think it is and I’ve always squeed just a little at her reaction there. Beautifully cut together and very significant.

IMO this is very shippy and it demonstrates how much their relationship changed. The only time prior to this when we see Sam's reaction to Charlie's death was in season 1 when Daniel told her and she was shocked but took it pretty well, considering. Yet here it's clear that she knows how much it eats away at him, that he's hurting and she hurts for him. It's very powerful.

Finally there’s the very end, when they’ve broken the time loop, Daniel’s waffling again and he asks that no consequences question again. Jack gives Sam a look, Daniel sees it, exchanges a glance with Sam who smiles. I just love that scene because it says so much about their characters. Daniel, if he’s oblivious before, must have been getting an inkling at this point. And Sam certainly knows but she doesn’t seem to mind much.

I don't think so. If anything Daniel looks confused and IMO it went right over his head. Then again, I tend to think he remained rather oblivious to the very end

[JenniferJF]

I thought I'd go ahead and post my gif of the commissary scene so everyone knows what we're talking about. I think this is actually fairly close to the subtext of the scene:



And the fic I think does the best job of describing the way things went between Sam and Jack during the Loop, as far as how far they went etc: Looping, by AstraPerAspera.

[Nynaeve506]

My John was in the Army SF and everyone there learns - fluently - at least one foreign language based on the geographical region the unit they're assigned to specializes in (he can still speak and understand a mean-Egyptian Arabic). A propensity for learning foreign languages and being able to speak them nearly like a native is, in fact, for obvious reasons, one of the many requirements for joining the SF. If the AF is similar then Jack might have learned Spanish that way, which considering his old colleague had supposedly stayed down in South America (Evolution) would make sense.

Random side story, my dad was a C-130 black ops pilot. When he took a proficiency test at the beginning of his career the guy pulled his test out, looked at him and said "How are you even speaking English?" (that being said, my dad's really math/science smart, he even writes papers really well... but foreign languages continue to elude him)

I can't see Jack doing it because I think, for him, sex and intimacy are fairly big deals and he is, by nature, fairly monogomous in his thinking. Or, in other words, there's no such thing for him as 'casual sex' (which is partly why I don't think he could simply dump Kerry in Threads and her letting him go was a gift) and so *he* wouldn't have done it because it would have been difficult if not impossible for him to maintain the proper detachment afterwards even if she didn't remember it herself.

Just agreeing. I need an icon for that. AGREED.

[EvenstarSRV]

Great review of the ep Cagranosalis, and great posts by everyone too.

WoO was the first episode of Stargate I saw, and I agree with those who say it pretty much embodies what makes Stargate great for me. It's a bit of homage to Groundhog's Day but they are able to put a great Stargate twist on the concept with the Ancient device affecting the SGC and other planets via the Stargate. You get the all the hilarious stuff that can happen with the looping along with the great angsty moment at the end with Jack about the darkside of looping as well. Fantastic ep all around.

I'm assuming that you mean the scene in the commissary when they mention year 1969? I agree that Jack seems a bit down in this scene and I could never figure out why. It can't be that he's tired of loops, because this is just the second (or the first? I'm not sure how to count them..) loop. And I agree that Sam tries to cheer him up, even if I think originally she just wanted more scientific details She's also very flirty at first.. So I like your explanation, but more in the contex of D&C than looping, if it makes sense.

That scene was in the first loop I believe, in the second one Hammond lets them go to the planet. I think Jack was just frustrated and a bit confused at the situation he was in, and was stuck just waiting before he could do anything about it. Sam came and kinda teased him about predicting what she was going to say, then proceeded to give a technobabble spiel that was exactly what Jack would have predicted she would say. Great moment between the two.

And yet a lot of folks interpret it as curiosity/lust/leering.

He seemed rather smugly satisfied in that scene to me, like he knew he'd gotten away with something cool that he otherwise could not have done. It kinda reminds of the kiss in Grace with Sam saying 'nevermind' in response to Jack's questioning look there, and Jack saying 'nothing' in response to Sam's question here.

I don't think Jack is a type who believes in fairytales. I kinda think that he made it for himself, to be able to remember kissing her as a guy, just Jack, and not as her CO, which would be a little icky.
On a more practical side, it was a good way to silence the antis and those complaining that he took adventage of his superior position.

Yeah, I can't see Jack believing in the notion that a kiss would break the loop either, esp since he was adamant through most of the episode that Malachi and the alter are what were responsible for the looping. I think he resigned more for Sam than himself, since while he was aware of when the timeline was going to reset (so no consequences), I don't think Sam was, and I think he knew that Sam would not have gone along with him kissing her if it was still against the rules.

[yessika]

Great review Cags!

This episode is one of my favorite's because it has it all

My favorite scene is also the kiss (what a shocker right?)

I believe that the resignation was more about Jack that Sam, even with "no consequences" he could not kiss her while being her CO. It shows his integrity and why I think he did not go any further that kissing Sam several times while looping.

I love that Daniel is the one that introduces the idea of "no consequences" (he looks so innocent ) and his behavior in the last scene reinforced my belief that he is not as oblivious about Sam and Jack as it seems

[Nynaeve506]

Sorry to be the slacker round these parts - will do the rewatch and post tonight - First day back to work, kept me busy the last 24 hours (which unexpectedly coincided with the re-watch of Watergate)

[Nynaeve506]

:: hangs head in shame ::

Okay so I thought I was going to make it, but I didn't Long story short I just didn't foresee these two events (going back to work and the rewatch) coinciding, but I am going to work on being organized for next time.

Discuss and please accept my apologies

[Rachel500]

:: hangs head in shame ::

Okay so I thought I was going to make it, but I didn't Long story short I just didn't foresee these two events (going back to work and the rewatch) coinciding, but I am going to work on being organized for next time.

Discuss and please accept my apologies

Hey, no problems at all! Believe me I know what it's like to have real life trample all over your fandom deadlines

Watergate...

Well to help out here's the Aftershock synopsis...

Synopsis

SG1 are about to embark on a survey mission to find a new planet for the Enkarans when the Stargate fails to lock. They quickly work out that there is a second gate being used and pinpoint the location to Siberia: the Russians have a Stargate. With their gate discovered the Russians admit that there is a problem and request the assistance of SG1. SG1 meet Doctor Svetlana Markov, the scientific head of the Russian Stargate programme. She informs them that no-one has heard from the base. The team parachute in and find the forty-seven people on the Russian programme dead. Markov establishes that the base commander initiated a security protocol killing everybody with nerve gas which has since dissipated.

The Stargate has an active wormhole connected to a planet completely under water; there is a drone on the other side and Sam theorises that the drone is sending a radio signal through the wormhole keeping it open. Markov reveals that the water seemed to be generating energy and that the sample she had acquired is gone. Markov, Sam and Daniel go through in a submarine to acquire the drone. The Stargate shuts down. They try to head back to the Stargate but come to a stop and the engines burn out. The pressure outside the sub increases; they are in trouble.

In the base, Teal’c and Jack search for more answers on what happened. They find the missing Colonel Maybourne frozen in the kitchen walk-in freezer. Maybourne defrosts and vomits up the missing water sample which turns into a gas and enters Teal’c. Jack tries to stop the Jaffa but he heads to the Stargate and dials the water planet.

On the planet, the sub’s front window implodes but the atmosphere holds as the water keeps the shape of the missing bubble. Daniel theorises that the water is a life-form and he places his hand inside it. He gets dragged into the water along with Markov and Sam.

The water leaves Teal’c and heads into the wormhole. The Stargate shuts down. Jack checks on Teal’c who notes that the entities in the water only wanted to go home. The Stargate activates and Markov, Sam and Daniel are thrown through the wormhole. Jack suggests they just exchanged hostages.

General

Not a favourite despite the casting of Marina Sirtis as Markov (I did think that it would have been great to have seen Markov again at some point).

My favourite moment of the entire episode is Teal'c commenting on the parachuting as being unwise. It's just so funny.

Of course the rest of the episode is quite sobering - the deaths of all of the Russian SGC staff...the situation with the water and the trip through the Stargate under water (which is very cool)...

Sam & Jack

They are split up for most of this and I think the main moment that I remember is when they meet Markov. There's some nice looks between them as Markov briefs them both outside and inside the plane, and when she asks them if Jack is always like 'this' and Sam calls Jack 'quite charming.'

[Cagranosalis]

*hugs Twi*

Pesky RL!

Not a favourite despite the casting of Marina Sirtis as Markov (I did think that it would have been great to have seen Markov again at some point).

Ditto that. I thought her character had interesting potential but alas it was not to be. My main complaint about this episode is that it's another "bash" at the Russians and they did that rather a lot around that time. It got a bit tiresome that these pesky Russians were so inept with their Stargate programme and Jack's abhorance of them (which I always found odd - history between the U.S. and USSR aside, Jack's always shown to be relatively tolerant of aliens so why so negative toward fellow humans).

My favourite line is Daniel's: "So they occasionally catch fire but they keep perfect time?"

Followed by: "Sorry, I've been hanging around Jack O'Neill too much."


I did like Jack's slight disapointment that he can't go on the submarine too though, and Maybourne is always nice to see. I kind of want to give a little cheer when he appears on screen.

[Treknik]

Watergate -

Even though the episode was okay for me, it has one of my favorite Jack and Sam moments in it. It is about 15 minutes into the episode when they are taking off their masks. Markov has tears for the men and women that died . . .

Sam - you okay?
Markov - I knew these men and women, Major, some of them quite well.

Sam has a look of pure understanding and empathy on her face. Jack looks at her and you can see that he knows exactly what she is feeling and thinking. They had just said how they felt about each other a few episodes earlier, so you know they felt Markov's pain. It is a very touching moment.

[hedwig]

I always thought Jack's behavior about not getting to go on the submarine had to do with his and Teal'c's experience on the Russian submarine with the replicators in "Small Victories". He was relieved and happy to not get to go on this one. (He fibbed to Markova about never having been on a submarine...)