Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Rachel500]

So very interesting thoughts...

Sam & Jack in Into the Fire/Friendship...

For me, I can't view the episode without respect to their previous relationship so bear with me...

Up until Out of Mind, I firmly believe that the two had built a friendship based on their mutual experiences and shared sense of humour. As I believe Martin Wood comments in Out of Mind commentary, they were two people who had fallen heavily in like with each other.

Two things complicate that friendship: the first is their military ranks and working relationship which is supposed to keep their relationship bound by the frat regs and definitely within a team camaraderie/bond (I believe this is what they try and revert to post Entity but ultimately fail at as it is just too hard to put the genie back in the bottle once its escaped) rather than becoming a personal friendship.

The second is the underlying attraction they share as a man and woman. From the beginning, they've both found the other attractive, both meet the other's type (as shown in First Commandment and Cold Lazarus), not to mention its highlighted by virtue of them being engaged in TBFTGOG, and Jack very definitely appreciates Sam's naked bod in Out of Mind.

I do believe Jack is more aware that they've slipped beyond the bounds expected in terms of military protocol way before Out of Mind, even as far back as In the Line of Duty. But I think he convinces himself its not important: the team isn't wholly military and if they have a close friendship, well he has that with Daniel and Teal'c so what's the big deal. I think he's also very aware of his own attraction but ignores it.

Sam, on the other hand, spends most of S2 recovering from Jolinar and I think she puts any attraction down to a crush; and I don't believe she realises just how close they've become.

What Into the Fire demonstrates to me is that emotionally they've gotten very close, too close given their military ranks. She does go back for him regardless of her orders; he is absolutely desperate as he reaches for her after killing Hathor as though he's scared stiff Hathor has killed her. Their hug is desperate and there is a sense there for me that it is more about giving and receiving comfort than it is about heat.

So, for me, Into the Fire signals that big "uh-oh" moment where they're standing on the precipice and on one side is a retreat from their attraction and friendship into more military territory, and on the other is a headlong slide into feeling much more than they should; love.

However, while I think Jack realises the danger on his side, I think he believes Sam's actions are down to friendship only and I think Sam doesn't even recognise the danger fully, writing her own feelings off to a potential crush and their friendship and never believing he might feel the same way. So neither takes a step back and headlong slide it is.

I do fundamentally believe their love is based on the friendship that evolves between them in the early seasons, and what is so sad beyond Entity is seeing them step back even from their friendship to try and regain a military objectivity in their relationship. However, I do think by the end of S6, through S7 and into the early part of S8, they are attempting to have a friendship despite their ranks and previously declared feelings to mixed results.

[Petra]

First of all, great to have a rewatch going again! Thank you to all who are responsible!

Secondly, thanks to VSS and EvenstarSRV for interesting and enjoyable discussion.

At the point that Sam went back for Jack, I do think it was more from friendship and a sense of loyalty (no one gets left behind) than a sense of "it's Jack, I have to save him". I believe she would have done the same for Daniel and Teal'c as well.

I also think the hug was innocent in that it was a gut reaction, however once it happened, I think they held on longer than normal, because it felt right. Even then I think they put it down to "heat of the moment" and it doesn't really register with them why it happened. However, I do think that this is the moment when the relationship changes from friendship to something more, even though neither of them realizes yet.

We see it happen again throughout the season. That just under the surface awareness of something, but not quite sure of what it is, between the two of them and it builds up until we get Season 4, which I've always considered the season of ship. But we'll get to that in a couple of weeks I'm sure.

This is exactly how I see it, especially the bolded part. One little thing that's different for me: I always saw POV as a turning point in their relations. Probably because it was the episode that made a shipper out of me

As for BtS..it's not only one of my favourite episodes ever, it's also the most shippy one in the entire series for me. Can't wait its discussion.

[EvenstarSRV]

Really? You don't think Jack's reaction to Sam in those situations was more sexual in nature than his ruffling Daniel's hair?

Yes it was, but I guess the point I was trying to make was that, to me, every time Sam and Jack cozy up to each other it's not necessarily sexual in nature. It's kinda like what Kat said, to me the hug in Into the Fire started out to give comfort, and then lingered on to maybe mean something more.

Yes Sam and Jack's interactions are going to be tinged with a sexual attraction that the other relationships don't have, so the switching characters comparison will only hold up to an extent, but it's not something that always happens, IMO. Like Sam putting her head on his shoulder in BTS is shippy, but it's more friendshippy to me in Death Knell.

Here again, the "feeling feelings" statement wasn't about simple friendship to me, nor was the head on the shoulder bit. If it were just about being friends, why the dismay from Jack at the end when she says "sir"? I'd think they'd be happy about everything if it was just about being friends, they'd have had more time to bond. But they were sad because they couldn't continue the relationship they had developed while in the mine. If it were friendship they most certainly could- and there'd be no reason for the angst.

Yes, the 'feeling feelings' scene did come across as shippy to me, but it was the stuff before that, Jonah's concern that Thera was working too hard, Thera voicing her frustrations about her plans to Jonah and him offering advice on how to deal with Brenna, that I took as friendship. I took it as a parallel to Sam and Jack's relationship, co-workers who became friends and were starting to deepen that friendship into something more, and the angst was about not being able to continue down that path.

It might be interesting for you to take a look at Sam's face in that little bit there. She looks at him like she can't believe what he just said- and it was at that point that she decides to give up on him and look for a romantic relationship with someone else. It was a huge mistake on his part, possibly the biggest one he makes with her in terms of their romance.

See, I took that look as Sam fully realizing that she was no longer on the ship and that Jack was real, so she was probably a bit embarrassed to call him by his first name. She had just come back from several days of hallucinations, was probably still a bit disoriented, and thought that Jack was still a hallucination. But Jack had no idea she'd experience all of that, so he was surprised she called him Jack because she'd never done it before unprompted.

And personally, I think Sam decided to look for a romantic relationship with someone else after her 'conversations' with the Jacob and Jack hallucinations. They both encouraged her to try for one, current circumstances don't allow one with Jack, so she was going to try with someone else.

He had before, when he had only been on two missions with Daniel, and the pain of his separation from Sara was still very fresh.

But that was prompted by Daniel right? He asked about meeting Sara and Jack admitted that they were separated. I don't see him keeping Daniel updated on his current relationship with her, whether he still talks to her, etc, and I can't really see Daniel continuing to ask about her either. And I think the LC conversation is still complicated by the Jack is doomed to die aspect, which I think would make him even more unwilling to open up to anyone since he's sort of shutting himself down emotionally in preparation for his fate.

So very interesting thoughts...

Sam & Jack in Into the Fire/Friendship...

For me, I can't view the episode without respect to their previous relationship so bear with me...

Up until Out of Mind, I firmly believe that the two had built a friendship based on their mutual experiences and shared sense of humour. As I believe Martin Wood comments in Out of Mind commentary, they were two people who had fallen heavily in like with each other.

Two things complicate that friendship: the first is their military ranks and working relationship which is supposed to keep their relationship bound by the frat regs and definitely within a team camaraderie/bond (I believe this is what they try and revert to post Entity but ultimately fail at as it is just too hard to put the genie back in the bottle once its escaped) rather than becoming a personal friendship.

The second is the underlying attraction they share as a man and woman. From the beginning, they've both found the other attractive, both meet the other's type (as shown in First Commandment and Cold Lazarus), not to mention its highlighted by virtue of them being engaged in TBFTGOG, and Jack very definitely appreciates Sam's naked bod in Out of Mind.

I do believe Jack is more aware that they've slipped beyond the bounds expected in terms of military protocol way before Out of Mind, even as far back as In the Line of Duty. But I think he convinces himself its not important: the team isn't wholly military and if they have a close friendship, well he has that with Daniel and Teal'c so what's the big deal. I think he's also very aware of his own attraction but ignores it.

Sam, on the other hand, spends most of S2 recovering from Jolinar and I think she puts any attraction down to a crush; and I don't believe she realises just how close they've become.

What Into the Fire demonstrates to me is that emotionally they've gotten very close, too close given their military ranks. She does go back for him regardless of her orders; he is absolutely desperate as he reaches for her after killing Hathor as though he's scared stiff Hathor has killed her. Their hug is desperate and there is a sense there for me that it is more about giving and receiving comfort than it is about heat.

So, for me, Into the Fire signals that big "uh-oh" moment where they're standing on the precipice and on one side is a retreat from their attraction and friendship into more military territory, and on the other is a headlong slide into feeling much more than they should; love.

However, while I think Jack realises the danger on his side, I think he believes Sam's actions are down to friendship only and I think Sam doesn't even recognise the danger fully, writing her own feelings off to a potential crush and their friendship and never believing he might feel the same way. So neither takes a step back and headlong slide it is.

I do fundamentally believe their love is based on the friendship that evolves between them in the early seasons, and what is so sad beyond Entity is seeing them step back even from their friendship to try and regain a military objectivity in their relationship. However, I do think by the end of S6, through S7 and into the early part of S8, they are attempting to have a friendship despite their ranks and previously declared feelings to mixed results.

Well said, this is a lot like how I see their relationship, and probably why I've enjoyed your stories so much.

And I'd like to thank all of you for putting up with a non-shipper like me. I hope I'm not derailing the thread too badly from the rewatch, I've really enjoyed all of your discussions.

[josiane]

So very interesting thoughts...

Sam & Jack in Into the Fire/Friendship...

Spoiler:

For me, I can't view the episode without respect to their previous relationship so bear with me...

Up until Out of Mind, I firmly believe that the two had built a friendship based on their mutual experiences and shared sense of humour. As I believe Martin Wood comments in Out of Mind commentary, they were two people who had fallen heavily in like with each other.

Two things complicate that friendship: the first is their military ranks and working relationship which is supposed to keep their relationship bound by the frat regs and definitely within a team camaraderie/bond (I believe this is what they try and revert to post Entity but ultimately fail at as it is just too hard to put the genie back in the bottle once its escaped) rather than becoming a personal friendship.

The second is the underlying attraction they share as a man and woman. From the beginning, they've both found the other attractive, both meet the other's type (as shown in First Commandment and Cold Lazarus), not to mention its highlighted by virtue of them being engaged in TBFTGOG, and Jack very definitely appreciates Sam's naked bod in Out of Mind.

I do believe Jack is more aware that they've slipped beyond the bounds expected in terms of military protocol way before Out of Mind, even as far back as In the Line of Duty. But I think he convinces himself its not important: the team isn't wholly military and if they have a close friendship, well he has that with Daniel and Teal'c so what's the big deal. I think he's also very aware of his own attraction but ignores it.

Sam, on the other hand, spends most of S2 recovering from Jolinar and I think she puts any attraction down to a crush; and I don't believe she realises just how close they've become.

What Into the Fire demonstrates to me is that emotionally they've gotten very close, too close given their military ranks. She does go back for him regardless of her orders; he is absolutely desperate as he reaches for her after killing Hathor as though he's scared stiff Hathor has killed her. Their hug is desperate and there is a sense there for me that it is more about giving and receiving comfort than it is about heat.

So, for me, Into the Fire signals that big "uh-oh" moment where they're standing on the precipice and on one side is a retreat from their attraction and friendship into more military territory, and on the other is a headlong slide into feeling much more than they should; love.

However, while I think Jack realises the danger on his side, I think he believes Sam's actions are down to friendship only and I think Sam doesn't even recognise the danger fully, writing her own feelings off to a potential crush and their friendship and never believing he might feel the same way. So neither takes a step back and headlong slide it is.

Spoiler:

I do fundamentally believe their love is based on the friendship that evolves between them in the early seasons, and what is so sad beyond Entity is seeing them step back even from their friendship to try and regain a military objectivity in their relationship. However, I do think by the end of S6, through S7 and into the early part of S8, they are attempting to have a friendship despite their ranks and previously declared feelings to mixed results.

Great post, as ever Rachel. The part I've left unspoilered is a perfect summary of where they are at this point, and thoughout season 3 - I think this is how both of them rationalise the events of A Hundred Days to themselves as well, when we get to that point. To me, the most interesting point in the development of their relationship though is what happens after the trauma of Hundred Days/Shades of Grey and before the giddiness we see them exhibit in early S4. I always want to know how they got to that point, because they know, by Upgrades, how they feel even if they're not fully aware of the implications of it (which it takes all the various events of S4 to reveal to them). Which I think is why one of my favourite fics is your Aftershock for between Nemesis and Small Victories, actually

Spoiler:

Yes it was, but I guess the point I was trying to make was that, to me, every time Sam and Jack cozy up to each other it's not necessarily sexual in nature. It's kinda like what Kat said, to me the hug in Into the Fire started out to give comfort, and then lingered on to maybe mean something more.

Yes Sam and Jack's interactions are going to be tinged with a sexual attraction that the other relationships don't have, so the switching characters comparison will only hold up to an extent, but it's not something that always happens, IMO. Like Sam putting her head on his shoulder in BTS is shippy, but it's more friendshippy to me in Death Knell.



Yes, the 'feeling feelings' scene did come across as shippy to me, but it was the stuff before that, Jonah's concern that Thera was working too hard, Thera voicing her frustrations about her plans to Jonah and him offering advice on how to deal with Brenna, that I took as friendship. I took it as a parallel to Sam and Jack's relationship, co-workers who became friends and were starting to deepen that friendship into something more, and the angst was about not being able to continue down that path.



See, I took that look as Sam fully realizing that she was no longer on the ship and that Jack was real, so she was probably a bit embarrassed to call him by his first name. She had just come back from several days of hallucinations, was probably still a bit disoriented, and thought that Jack was still a hallucination. But Jack had no idea she'd experience all of that, so he was surprised she called him Jack because she'd never done it before unprompted.

And personally, I think Sam decided to look for a romantic relationship with someone else after her 'conversations' with the Jacob and Jack hallucinations. They both encouraged her to try for one, current circumstances don't allow one with Jack, so she was going to try with someone else.



But that was prompted by Daniel right? He asked about meeting Sara and Jack admitted that they were separated. I don't see him keeping Daniel updated on his current relationship with her, whether he still talks to her, etc, and I can't really see Daniel continuing to ask about her either. And I think the LC conversation is still complicated by the Jack is doomed to die aspect, which I think would make him even more unwilling to open up to anyone since he's sort of shutting himself down emotionally in preparation for his fate.



Well said, this is a lot like how I see their relationship, and probably why I've enjoyed your stories so much.

And I'd like to thank all of you for putting up with a non-shipper like me. I hope I'm not derailing the thread too badly from the rewatch, I've really enjoyed all of your discussions.

No thanks necessary - thank you for coming and putting the alternative perspective! Needless to say I agree with VSS rather than you, but it's always interesting to hear the arguments thrashed out in such a considered and respectful manner I hope you'll stick around and continue to discuss with us

[KatG]

Yes, the 'feeling feelings' scene did come across as shippy to me, but it was the stuff before that, Jonah's concern that Thera was working too hard, Thera voicing her frustrations about her plans to Jonah and him offering advice on how to deal with Brenna, that I took as friendship. I took it as a parallel to Sam and Jack's relationship, co-workers who became friends and were starting to deepen that friendship into something more, and the angst was about not being able to continue down that path.

I see what you're saying, and even agree with you now that you've said it like that.

See, I took that look as Sam fully realizing that she was no longer on the ship and that Jack was real, so she was probably a bit embarrassed to call him by his first name. She had just come back from several days of hallucinations, was probably still a bit disoriented, and thought that Jack was still a hallucination. But Jack had no idea she'd experience all of that, so he was surprised she called him Jack because she'd never done it before unprompted.

And again, I agree with you. By the time Grace took place, Sam and Jack were both masters at "pretending" and at keeping up appearances. I don't think Sam meant to call him Jack either and was as surprised as he was that she did so. [/quote]

And personally, I think Sam decided to look for a romantic relationship with someone else after her 'conversations' with the Jacob and Jack hallucinations. They both encouraged her to try for one, current circumstances don't allow one with Jack, so she was going to try with someone else.

And here I disagree. I don't think that she had definitely made up her mind yet, but the fact that he called her on it, just tipped her "decision" in favor of trying find someone else. Up until that point, it wouldn't have surprised me if she'd found a way to "not make rank an issue".

And I'd like to thank all of you for putting up with a non-shipper like me. I hope I'm not derailing the thread too badly from the rewatch, I've really enjoyed all of your discussions.

No problem. Contrary to what some may say, most of us are not unreasonable and most of us enjoy a good debate when the person on the other end is respectful. Personally I'm enjoying your perspective. It makes me think about what I see and why I see it even more.

Great post, as ever Rachel. The part I've left unspoilered is a perfect summary of where they are at this point, and thoughout season 3 - I think this is how both of them rationalise the events of A Hundred Days to themselves as well, when we get to that point. To me, the most interesting point in the development of their relationship though is what happens after the trauma of Hundred Days/Shades of Grey and before the giddiness we see them exhibit in early S4. I always want to know how they got to that point, because they know, by Upgrades, how they feel even if they're not fully aware of the implications of it (which it takes all the various events of S4 to reveal to them). Which I think is why one of my favourite fics is your Aftershock for between Nemesis and Small Victories, actually

Oh yeah. Something definitely happened between Nemesis and Small Victories. I don't think they "crossed the line", but I think spending all that time together, definitely increased the intimacy of the relationship.

[josiane]

Oh yeah. Something definitely happened between Nemesis and Small Victories. I don't think they "crossed the line", but I think spending all that time together, definitely increased the intimacy of the relationship.

Exactly I think there was some moment of mutual understanding or acknowledgement of some kind while they were stuck offworld. I don't think anything as overt as them talking (because they don't really do that ever!) or that they crossed any lines, but I think they might have opened up a little in their interactions I guess. They're just so darn flirty in Small Victories, and comfortably so, that I think they're carrying on a pattern they established during that time.

[EvenstarSRV]

No thanks necessary - thank you for coming and putting the alternative perspective! Needless to say I agree with VSS rather than you, but it's always interesting to hear the arguments thrashed out in such a considered and respectful manner I hope you'll stick around and continue to discuss with us

No problem. Contrary to what some may say, most of us are not unreasonable and most of us enjoy a good debate when the person on the other end is respectful. Personally I'm enjoying your perspective. It makes me think about what I see and why I see it even more.

Thanks, I know I'm the outsider here so I'm trying to tread lightly, and I'm enjoying all of your perspectives as well.

And here I disagree. I don't think that she had definitely made up her mind yet, but the fact that he called her on it, just tipped her "decision" in favor of trying find someone else. Up until that point, it wouldn't have surprised me if she'd found a way to "not make rank an issue".

The iffy thing for me about Sam finding a way is that the only way I can see at that point to get around the regs/rank issue was for either her or Jack to leave SG-1. I don't see either character as willing to do that at that point in the series, but I do think the career choices they made after S8 were a way to get around that issue.

I think I should add that Grace is probably my favorite episode from the series, and as col aga can attest to, I can ramble at length about it. But I'd be jumping far ahead of the rewatch if I started doing that now, so I'll wait until we get there.

Oh yeah. Something definitely happened between Nemesis and Small Victories. I don't think they "crossed the line", but I think spending all that time together, definitely increased the intimacy of the relationship.

What's always struck me about Small Victories was Sam's tone and Jack's reaction to her response of 'Getting old for you, sir' when he's kinda complaining about having to save the world again. I'm not sure I can describe what it is exactly, but it just seemed so far from the way they both joked about saving the world in the beginning of the ep.

[leiasky]

And I'd like to thank all of you for putting up with a non-shipper like me. I hope I'm not derailing the thread too badly from the rewatch, I've really enjoyed all of your discussions.

I'm very much enjoying your interpretation of certain moments/scenes/episodes. It's interesting to see that what one person sees in an episode/scene/dialogue, isn't what everyone else sees. Thanks for the great back and forth

[VSS]

Seth

Favorite scene: When Sam kills Seth, and the look on her face following.
Favorite Quote: In Jaffa society, many things are complicated. Loving one’s children is not one of them.

Beautiful banner banner by Blacky Kitten

This is a good episode with nice team interaction, a plausible yet clever plot and some great character development for Sam.

Love Teal’c’s joke- is this the first time we really hear him laugh? Also, my favorite quote this episode is from Teal’c. I have the impression that he (and perhaps all Jaffa) have the ability to cut to the chase where relationships are concerned and I imagine that what goes on between Sam and Jack mystifies him somewhat, just as the relationship between Mark and Jacob. As if they should all just figure it out. Daniel is at his archeologic finest and Jack is his handsome smartass self through most of the ep.(I did feel a bit sorry for Hamner, though, he was just trying to do his job).

It’s curious that Sam tells Jacob she hadn’t seen Mark since his kids were born- but in Cold Lazarus she says rather cheerfully that she’s an auntie and really misses visiting the kids. In thinking about that, I’m not so sure those statements are inconsistent- the kids are obviously pretty little and it’s been about two years since Sam joined the SGC, so it’s possible that all the secrecy entailed with working for the SGC has driven a wedge between Sam and Mark. It sounds like Mark isn’t a big fan of military life to begin with.

It’s cute where Jack calls Jacob “Dad”, and of course we all remember Jacob doesn’t let Pete do that in Threads. Why does Jack do that, anyway? To tease Sam? It doesn’t seem to bother Jacob or Sam but for some reason Jack gets a kick out of it. I can’t remember if this is the first time he does it.

Near the end of the episode when they’re all down in the tunnel I had to wonder why Jack just didn’t yell at everyone to uncover their heads? At any rate, Sam kills Seth with the hand device, and has decidedly mixed feelings about it. I don’t think she’s upset about killing him, but rather, because she used a goa-uld hand device to do it. And Jack’s “Hail Dorothy” falls pretty flat. Why isn’t he more concerned with how she’s feeling? It’s written all over her face. I’m guessing it’s that he thinks any advantage they have over the goa’uld is a good thing and that she just needs to learn to deal with it. Or maybe it’s his way of saying he doesn’t have a problem with her new abilities, which we’ll definitely see in just a few eps.

Implications for Sam and Jack: There is more development in Sam’s backstory as we find out she’d estranged from her brother and his family. I think we agreed that Sam resolving her issues with her Dad were important for her to really be able to forge any kind of important relationship, and I’m sure that getting things straight with Mark falls into the same category. It lays the foundation for her to put the final pieces of her personal life together, and it’s Jacob who helps her do that in the end.

[Nynaeve506]

Seth:

This is one of those episodes that doesn't fall on my favorite but also doesn't make it on my "don't like" list. I love the back story for Sam and Jacob - it makes me sad that Mark never played a bigger role in SG-1.

When it comes to Sam and Mark's relationship I think in my head I painted it that they talked somewhat but it tended to be tense - there were topics they simply avoided because they weren't going to see eye to eye. And I agree with you VSS it's probably been since the beginning of SG-1 that she hasn't seen Mark and his kids. I imagine she gets regular e-mails/pictures and sends the required birthday card/present.

I also always wondered what it was that made Mark and Jacob fall out - I get that he was hostile towards the military and blamed him for their mother's death (because Jacob was too busy working) - but Sam forgave Jacob... why not him too? I mean the current situation is totally plausible, but I guess I wonder about family dynamics, what home life was like etc.

In response to your questions on why Jack seemed rather unconcerned about Sam, I wonder if it's part of his special ops mindset. I think he's been killing and fighting for so long that he just doesn't connect the emotional gravity of it. Sometimes he does, but for him the equation is Seth = Goa'uld = evil evil evil. Sam killed evil, so hey, it's all good right? I also think he's more of an act now, think about later. Let's kill these snakeheads and then we'll all go to therapy when we're 60 or something LOL.

I wonder if what affects Sam is the emotional component of killing Seth. In "The First Commandment" she can't kill Jonas. If she had, it would have been an emotionally charged kill - there's a difference between putting a bullet in the brain of a Jaffa trying to shoot you and actively hating (and thus getting pleasure) out of killing the guy in front of you. I wouldn't say that Sam is getting pleasure from killing Seth, but I think there is a sense of satisfaction. Sam is a "good girl" and I think finding that deep negative emotion against another living creature (albeit a nasty evil living creature) surprises her and probably disturbs her on some level.

[Rachel500]

Sam and Mark...

I think Sam had been a rather absentee auntie, one that was involved only on the very periphery of their lives. I can see her sending presents and cards, and her sister-in-law more than Mark making the effort to send some back. I think her comments in Cold Lazarus are more of a 'oh I have family too' trying to bond with her CO who was looking at pictures of kids.

I think she and Mark had something of a relationship it had deteroriated since she had joined the Air Force and given her work commitments had deteriorated even further so while I don't see her estranged from Mark per se, I don't think their relationship was close.

I do think in her father trying to mend fences that it made it easier for Sam and Mark to try and establish a closer relationship than they had previously. So maybe after Seth more of an effort was made on both their parts to actually talk once in a while; for Sam to try and spend the holidays with them when she and/or Jacob got leave...all leading of course to her brother feeling comfortable enough to try and set her up in S7...but let's not go there.

Sam, Jack and killing Seth

Actually I think Jack is concerned for Sam, I think he, like Daniel and everyone else especially Sam, is just hugely shocked. Because they suddenly realise the power she is capable of wielding in a really stark way. And I think his 'hail Dorothy' is more of a defensive reaction to try and cover how disturbed he is at Sam's abilities.

She just looks absolutely devastated in that moment - it's very much 'god what have I become' which is written on her face.

[VSS]

Sam, Jack and killing Seth

Actually I think Jack is concerned for Sam, I think he, like Daniel and everyone else especially Sam, is just hugely shocked. Because they suddenly realise the power she is capable of wielding in a really stark way. And I think his 'hail Dorothy' is more of a defensive reaction to try and cover how disturbed he is at Sam's abilities.

She just looks absolutely devastated in that moment - it's very much 'god what have I become' which is written on her face.

After I read this, I watched that segment again, and I agree. I had missed the look he gives her before he says it and how he watches her leave afterwards. I think the "Hail Dorothy" is for her benefit- it's his nature to handle an emotionally tense situation with a joke, and I think he's trying to convey it was ultimately the right thing to do.

[Nynaeve506]

Sam, Jack and killing Seth

Actually I think Jack is concerned for Sam, I think he, like Daniel and everyone else especially Sam, is just hugely shocked. Because they suddenly realise the power she is capable of wielding in a really stark way. And I think his 'hail Dorothy' is more of a defensive reaction to try and cover how disturbed he is at Sam's abilities.

She just looks absolutely devastated in that moment - it's very much 'god what have I become' which is written on her face.

I don't know that I would say that Jack was disturbed - surprised, yes, maybe even a little unsettled. I haven't seen this episode in a while so I'm talking from memory so I could be completely wrong LOL

[hedwig]

I don't know that I would say that Jack was disturbed - surprised, yes, maybe even a little unsettled. I haven't seen this episode in a while so I'm talking from memory so I could be completely wrong LOL

Surprised, pretty impressed with her newfound power, maybe a bit disturbed, seeing her in a new(er) light (she still keeps surprising him), maybe he was even trying to lighten up the atmosphere a bit because he likely knew that she was disturbed by this revelation of her abilities - all this stuff rolled into "Hail Dorothy".

[VSS]

Surprised, pretty impressed with her newfound power, maybe a bit disturbed, seeing her in a new(er) light (she still keeps surprising him), maybe he was even trying to lighten up the atmosphere a bit because he likely knew that she was disturbed by this revelation of her abilities - all this stuff rolled into "Hail Dorothy".

Yes, I think that's about right!
I'm glad he showed some concern because certainly he's been well-known to disregard how people feel about things, but usually he's a little more sensitive to Sam.