Browder's character should OUTRANK Carter

[Skydiver]

you know, both of them are lt colonels and, given cam's age, it's very possible that he's been one no longer than sam

for all we know, they may come up with some 'equal leaders' scenario. yes, that's not how the military works, but this is where the 'they're the sgc, they're special' comes into play

i have to admit that i am beyond skeptical of 'he's been there for a long time, we just haven't seen him' idea. aahah, right. It's just a way to avoid 'new guy syndrome' and answer the 'he's new to the sgc and not qualified to command' remarks

those that feel that sam isn't worthy of command will likely always feel that way, and the same for the folks who think that she is

I just wouldn't put it beyond tptb to come up with something like co-leaders as a way to accomodate both characters

[keshou]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they structured some sort of co-leader thing. Mitchell leads missions where Sam's time is concentrated on her scientific duties. Presuming the Air Force lets them get away with that under the whole dramatic license thing.

Sam gets to lead when Mitchell is concentrating on.....whatever it is he does that's special besides commanding the team. (And that could be a problem in my mind. If Mitchell isn't the leader then he becomes Ford, basically. And they could never figure out what to do with him.)

I honestly don't care what they do as long as it provides good character development for both Sam and Mitchell, it stays true to the characters and there's some real dramatic consequences resulting from the setup.

I guess I'm just not that concerned about who "deserves" the leadership role. I want drama. Heck - let Mitchell and Sam have a little conflict and rivalry. At least that would provide some interesting scenes.

[astrogeologist]

The concern was over TPTB having (perhaps) written Sam out of the command position and written Mitchell in

Nicely encapsulated.

Either way you look at it, someone's going to lose out. Why the heck should it be Carter? You know, CARTER? The one we've known and loved for 8 years as opposed to a guy we know little to nothing about???

'Either way you look at it, someone's going to lose out'.. and that's what I don't understand about the spoilers leaked for Season 9... why would TPTB want to set up a situation where they have two polarized camps amongst their fanbase - one side that will be pissed if Carter doesn't get command, and another that will be pissed if Mitchell doesn't retain command when Carter returns. I don't understand setting up a situation that creates antagonism amongst the fans.

Either way someone's going to lose out - either Sam is Mitchell's 2IC, or he's hers.

Like you, Uber, I don't understand why a Stargate fan would want the newbie to take command over a long standing character.

I also want to see a woman portrayed as competently in command. With strong men under her command - men that respect her leadership - and show that respect appropriately and professionally. Amanda Tapping could be so wonderfully successful in such a role in Season 9.

[Lightsabre]

'Either way you look at it, someone's going to lose out'.. and that's what I don't understand about the spoilers leaked for Season 9... why would TPTB want to set up a situation where they have two polarized camps amongst their fanbase - one side that will be pissed if Carter doesn't get command, and another that will be pissed if Mitchell doesn't retain command when Carter returns. I don't understand setting up a situation that creates antagonism amongst the fans.

Either way someone's going to lose out - either Sam is Mitchell's 2IC, or he's hers.

Like you, Uber, I don't understand why a Stargate fan would want the newbie to take command over a long standing character.

I also want to see a woman portrayed as competently in command. With strong men under her command - men that respect her leadership - and show that respect appropriately and professionally. Amanda Tapping could be so wonderfully successful in such a role in Season 9.

The Mitchell/Carter thing adds drama. It adds tension.
Also, I've said ti before, I'll say it again. Carter being in commnad makes her too perfect. SHe's a genius. She's deadly hand to hand fighter and sharpshooter.
She's also in command. WHat do the other members of SG-1 do?
What about Mitchell?? He'd have NO impact on the team whatsoever if he wasn't in command.
It makes it far better if he IS in command, but knows he has a fraction of the experience of the others. So he has to weigh their advice carefully.
AT could do well in the role, but the Charater of carter would eclipse the rest of the team.
I don't want Stargate to become all about just the wonderful Sam Carter.
She's a great character, but so are Daniel, Teal'c Jack, Bra'tac, Ishta, Thor.
I believe the above is TPTB's reasoning on Mitchell taking command.

[Uber]

The Mitchell/Carter thing adds drama. It adds tension.
Also, I've said ti before, I'll say it again. Carter being in commnad makes her too perfect. SHe's a genius. She's deadly hand to hand fighter and sharpshooter.
She's also in command. WHat do the other members of SG-1 do?
What about Mitchell?? He'd have NO impact on the team whatsoever if he wasn't in command.
It makes it far better if he IS in command, but knows he has a fraction of the experience of the others. So he has to weigh their advice carefully.
AT could do well in the role, but the Charater of carter would eclipse the rest of the team.
I don't want Stargate to become all about just the wonderful Sam Carter.
She's a great character, but so are Daniel, Teal'c Jack, Bra'tac, Ishta, Thor.
I believe the above is TPTB's reasoning on Mitchell taking command.

That's not what happened last season though...she was SG-1 team leader and it didn't make her perfect. In fact, she made some doozies of mistakes on par with O'Neill...

I don't think it'll make her more perfect (I don't think she is perfect, btw...although Felger does) I do think it'll add more dimension to the character. We know she can geek it up. We know she is smart as all get out. But she's had limited experience in the leadership role...throughout the years before Season 8 she had a moment here and there where she was able to demonstrate she had the potential to lead, and then in Season 8 it became official...but we only were teased with the potential.

For instance...she becomes incredibly snarky as she leads. Is this a result of being exposed to Jack's leadership style? This is something I'd like to know. Plus in her "scientist" role, she was the one who issued recommendations...and as a leader she has to be the one to make the decisions. It's kind of like watching Jack in his role as the head of the SGC...so used to being in the field...then we got to see him in a different role...a different light. A fish out of water.

Same for Carter. We got to see a glimpse of her in a different light...and I think that can only help round her out as a character and make her more interesting to watch. Will she make some of the same bonehead mistakes that Jack made? Or will she make more of her own bonehead mistakes?

I'm reminded of what Hailey said in Prodigy...always the best in everything until she went into the Air Force...and found it was a whole 'nother world. With Carter, she's the best scientist...so now let's see her adapt to this role she took on in Season 8...where she's not necessarily the best in that field.

How will she adapt to the new threat? How will she adapt to the new base commander and Mitchell? Will she have the kind of rapport with Landry that she had with General Hammond or will it be more like the friction she experienced with Bauer?

Only time will tell...

[Lightsabre]

That's not what happened last season though...she was SG-1 team leader and it didn't make her perfect. In fact, she made some doozies of mistakes on par with O'Neill...

THere is almost no episode last season where Carter is in command.

I don't think it'll make her more perfect (I don't think she is perfect, btw...although Felger does) I do think it'll add more dimension to the character. We know she can geek it up. We know she is smart as all get out. But she's had limited experience in the leadership role...throughout the years before Season 8 she had a moment here and there where she was able to demonstrate she had the potential to lead, and then in Season 8 it became official...but we only were teased with the potential.

I'm just saying, There is a problem when you make a character TOO good.
LIke I said, Genius, fighter and leader?
What are the rest of them needed for? red shirts???

For instance...she becomes incredibly snarky as she leads. Is this a result of being exposed to Jack's leadership style? This is something I'd like to know. Plus in her "scientist" role, she was the one who issued recommendations...and as a leader she has to be the one to make the decisions. It's kind of like watching Jack in his role as the head of the SGC...so used to being in the field...then we got to see him in a different role...a different light. A fish out of water.

That's the point, as a scientist, she issued recomendations.
As leader, all we'd see would be Carter saving the day.
She'd have no need to tlak to anyone else.
it'd be "I thoght the problem was this, so I fixed it. I didn't need permission, since I"m the leader".

Same for Carter. We got to see a glimpse of her in a different light...and I think that can only help round her out as a character and make her more interesting to watch. Will she make some of the same bonehead mistakes that Jack made? Or will she make more of her own bonehead mistakes?

Eh, I don't think we need to see her in a different light. But I do thing that seeing her deal with Mitchell will say more than her being in command.

I'm reminded of what Hailey said in Prodigy...always the best in everything until she went into the Air Force...and found it was a whole 'nother world. With Carter, she's the best scientist...so now let's see her adapt to this role she took on in Season 8...where she's not necessarily the best in that field.

I don't see your point here.

How will she adapt to the new threat? How will she adapt to the new base commander and Mitchell? Will she have the kind of rapport with Landry that she had with General Hammond or will it be more like the friction she experienced with Bauer?

Only time will tell...

I don't see how her being in command would affect this.

[Uber]

THere is almost no episode last season where Carter is in command.

I'm just saying, There is a problem when you make a character TOO good.
LIke I said, Genius, fighter and leader?
What are the rest of them needed for? red shirts???

That's the point, as a scientist, she issued recomendations.
As leader, all we'd see would be Carter saving the day.
She'd have no need to tlak to anyone else.
it'd be "I thoght the problem was this, so I fixed it. I didn't need permission, since I"m the leader".

Eh, I don't think we need to see her in a different light. But I do thing that seeing her deal with Mitchell will say more than her being in command.

I don't see your point here.

I don't see how her being in command would affect this.

Well in the few eps we did see, she helped maybourne and got all snarky with him, she allowed replicarter to get free, she rescued Daniel, she worked with her dad and Teal'c to take down the replicators...so sure, there are only a few instances...but they were good. And it's a shame that budget constraints were what they were, or we would have seen more Sam in command. But just like anyone else, either she worked to do something amazing or she made huge mistakes...

...and you're welcome to think that sam would be too perfect...my point is I want to see Carter develop in the role that didn't come as naturally to her as science...I want to see the growing pains of her adapting to the new sgc leadership and maybe a smart aleck under her command who's willing to do the outrageously daring things...

This is my opinion...I want Carter to lead in Season 9....yours clearly differs and that's fine...but I don't see her as being too perfect or too much...daniel still fills his exceedingly important role as translator and archeologist and the conscious of the team, Teal'c still fills his as the warrior...Cam could be the daredevil (or at least that's the sense i've gotten of him from interviews) and sam can geek it up and lead the team. Each has their vital roles.

I just want to see Sam continue as a leader and watch her go through her growing pains...under the very watchful eye of a new base commander who may or may not have the faith in her O'Neill had.

This thread is called...BROWDER'S CHARACTER SHOULD OUTRANK CARTER. Well he doesn't...they're both Lt. Cols so the original purpose of this thread is moot. Then it became a CAM SHOULD STAY SG-1 TEAM LEADER EVEN AFTER SAM RETURNS thread...others feel that Sam should be given the opportunity to lead the team so he can learn from the best like he said he wanted.

I personally am hoping for a character I've made a deep connection to has the chance to continue to grow in a leadership role, bumps and all.

We shall see...one way or the other, in a few weeks...we'll find out what they're doing.

[Tucker Case]

Like you, Uber, I don't understand why a Stargate fan would want the newbie to take command over a long standing character.

Well, as a 'Stargate' fan, I want what's best for the show.

I don't happen to think Carter in charge - military action hero + scientific specialist (who now gets to not only make the recommendation, but the decision as well) + technical specialist + poster girl for women in the military, while Ben Browder plays the fifth wheel on a four-man team - is what's best for the show. It certainly isn't the dynamic I find most appealing.

But that's me. Pretty sure I'm still a fan, though.

Tucker

[Jonisa]

As a 'Stargate' fan, I want what's best for the show.

I don't happen to think Carter in charge - military action hero + scientific specialist (who now gets to not only make the recommendation, but the decision as well) + technical specialist + poster girl for women in the military, while Ben Browder plays the fifth wheel on a four-man team - is what's best for the show. It certainly isn't the dynamic I find most appealing.

But that's me.

Opinions differ. Can we please try to avoid insinuations (however unintentional) that "a 'Stargate' fan" ought to adhere to a particular one?

Tucker

I completely agree with this. I rarely, if ever, wish that my favorite characters get everything I think they 'deserve', even if they're hurting. Some of what they want, yes, everything , no. If they get everything they want, there isn't anything interesting about the character anymore and all the attention will move to the characters who are experiencing conflict.

Personally, I think, if handled correctly, the dynamic between Carter and Mitchell could be extremely interesting, as both of these soldiers learn to work together. While we know all about Carter, we don't know exactly what Mitchell's about yet, in terms of expertise and experience. Even though he's a newbie to us, it's clear that he isn't a newbie in the Stargate world. While we may think Carter deserves command over Mitchell based on her experience, we don't know that for sure. TPTB has the right to give this guy any sort of background they choose, whether fans like it or not, and if they choose to give him the kind of background that gives him command over Carter, that's the way it is. I don't understand why they're being so coy about it though.

And yes, while I completely respect the opinions of those who want Carter in command, this Stargate fan also prefers Mitchell in command over Carter. For one thing, it gives him a clearly defined role. Otherwise, what will he do? Stand there and be charming and good-looking? That's Daniel's job.

For another thing, it opens all sorts of doors for some interesting things for Carter to do, such as possibly chafing under his command, disagreeing with some of his calls--as they're the same rank, those disagreements will carry a lot of weight, and slowly learning to work together. It just seems more interesting to me that way.

Where's the tension if it's the other way around? Mitchell disagreeing with Carter? Like Daniel or Teal'c or we the viewers will care all that much if this new guy has some concerns/complaints with Carter's command. What does he know? He's new. We all know she's almost always right, especially in matters scientific. Whereas if Mitchell makes a decision and Carter objects and Daniel and Teal'c back her because of their history together and we all back her, because, well, she's Carter...ooohh! Interesting. Tension. Drama. IMHO, of course.

Eh, I'm flexible. Whether it's Carter leading, Mitchell leading, or some sort of joint thing they patch together, whichever way they decide to go with this, I'm invested enough now to be quite interested to see how they handle it. I hadn't given it much thought before. Didn't really care, to be honest, and I suspect a lot of casual viewers feel the same way--right now anyway. When the episodes start airing this might be a major story point. Aha! Maybe that's why they've been being so coy! It could be TPTB are smarter than we give them credit for.

[Tucker Case]

Oh, rats. I just knew someone would latch onto that post and respond to it before I had a chance to edit it. (I can be so unbearably snippy when I'm under-caffeinated. I should know by now: Coffee first, think later.)

Personally, I think, if handled correctly, the dynamic between Carter and Mitchell could be extremely interesting, as both of these soldiers learn to work together.

It should, it really should. Honestly, they both win if we get a good story and an interesting dynamic out of it, and both actors get a challenge they can sink their teeth into.

TPTB has the right to give this guy any sort of background they choose, whether fans like it or not, and if they choose to give him the kind of background that gives him command over Carter, that's the way it is. I don't understand why they're being so coy about it though.

I probably shouldn't let it bother me, but the more the coyness lingers, the more it does. They do have the right to give Mitchell whatever background and experience they choose, and to slide him into place in whatever way suits them. If they've made those decisions, though, I wish they'd just own up to them.

Otherwise, what will he do? Stand there and be charming and good-looking? That's Daniel's job.

Hey!

Okay, it's one of his jobs. (And he does it so well. )

Where's the tension if it's the other way around? Mitchell disagreeing with Carter? Like Daniel or Teal'c or we the viewers will care all that much if this new guy has some concerns/complaints with Carter's command. What does he know? He's new.

That's where I'm coming from as well, to a degree. Without some other specialty, he ends up just being there to fire when needed, and complicate Carter's day from time to time - only he isn't much of a complication because he's easily dismissed. As Keshou (I think) put it, he becomes SG-1's answer to Lt. Ford, the character Capt. Carter would have become if she hadn't had the science credentials to give her character more heft and give her a more singular role to fill.

If Mitchell were being brought on as another scientist, being assigned to that role, it would be different. But he isn't, so it's not.

Whereas if Mitchell makes a decision and Carter objects and Daniel and Teal'c back her because of their history together and we all back her, because, well, she's Carter...ooohh! Interesting.

That history should be allowed to complicate things, whether it's Daniel and Teal'c backing Carter, rightly or wrongly, because of it, or if they back Mitchell in spite of that history and they all have to work past the personal element.

Eh, I'm flexible. Whether it's Carter leading, Mitchell leading, or some sort of joint thing they patch together, whichever way they decide to go with this, I'm invested enough now to be quite interested to see how they handle it.

Well, there's the crux of it. I'm here, no matter what they do. And even if I get what I want and they keep Mitchell more or less in charge, I still won't like it if they keep putting the whole thing on Carter's head when asked to answer for the choices they've made. (I clearly have issues with that sort of thing. )

When the episodes start airing this might be a major story point. Aha! Maybe that's why they've been being so coy! It could be TPTB are smarter than we give them credit for.

I had a similar thought yesterday, while reliving my 'Harry Potter' nightmare. I could be stunned and amazed at the bold and audacious manner in which the pieces fall into place and have to decide whether I prefer my crow barbecued or roasted in orange sauce (and I'm a vegetarian and all).

Tucker

[Jace021903]

That's where I'm coming from as well, to a degree. Without some other specialty, he ends up just being there to fire when needed, and complicate Carter's day from time to time - only he isn't much of a complication because he's easily dismissed. As Keshou (I think) put it, he becomes SG-1's answer to Lt. Ford, the character Capt. Carter would have become if she hadn't had the science credentials to give her character more heft and give her a more singular role to fill.

If Mitchell were being brought on as another scientist, being assigned to that role, it would be different. But he isn't, so it's not.

Tucker

That's the sticking point with me. I can't see them bringing in a heavy-hitter like Ben Browder (in sci-fi circles anyway) and have him be "SG-1's answer to Lt. Ford." (No offense to Ford--I like him )


Jace

[sg-1fanintn]

THat is BS. SOrry, but just because you were once in command doesn't mean you always will be.
Ever heard of DE-motion? It does happen. It's not applicable in this case, but the fact is that if Carter rejoins SG-1, it won't be as leader.


No one said he was MORE qualified than Carter, simply that he was qualified to lead SG-1.

Cam's the permemnt leader, live with it.

And did a terrible job. In none of the episodes where Carter is in command has she impressed me with her leadership potential or ability.
THat's not an insult, some people just aren't leaders.

I never said he was better qualified, simply that he had the qualifications to do the job.
When you hire someone, you take hte MOST qualified person who applies.
BUT
IF a more qualified person applies, AFTER you've filled the job, you don't demote or fire the person you gave it to.
YEs, if they were considering commanders, Carter would trump Mitchell.
But they aren't. SG-1 HAS a commander.

Of course. Doesn't mean we can't discuss it tho, right?

A demotion? What could she have done to deserve it? Nothing. She and the rest of SG1 have saved the world repeatedly over the last eight years.

I personally find this argument about Sam and Cam futile, slightly irritating and slightly funny. Discuss anything you want. That's why the forums exist. But everyone's talking about "facts" when NONE OF US KNOW THE FACTS YET! The season hasn't started. TPTB love to tease and mis-lead us, and there's no way to know yet how this is all going to shake out. You're getting yourself excited claiming things are "fact," when none of us really has an idea.

I'm not saying discussion is bad. But getting angry at people and arguing doesn't do anything but divide fans.....and I can't imagine that either Amanda or Ben would want that. TPTB? Maybe, because the more they keep you stirred up, the more confident they are that you'll be in front of your TV on July 15. Don't be a pawn.

[Commander Aegir]

If Browder's character was a Colonel he would outrank carter but if he was a lt. Colonel they would be the same

[Uber]

A demotion? What could she have done to deserve it? Nothing. She and the rest of SG1 have saved the world repeatedly over the last eight years.

I personally find this argument about Sam and Cam futile, slightly irritating and slightly funny. Discuss anything you want. That's why the forums exist. But everyone's talking about "facts" when NONE OF US KNOW THE FACTS YET! The season hasn't started. TPTB love to tease and mis-lead us, and there's no way to know yet how this is all going to shake out. You're getting yourself excited claiming things are "fact," when none of us really has an idea.

I'm not saying discussion is bad. But getting angry at people and arguing doesn't do anything but divide fans.....and I can't imagine that either Amanda or Ben would want that. TPTB? Maybe, because the more they keep you stirred up, the more confident they are that you'll be in front of your TV on July 15. Don't be a pawn.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

You are so right on here...we don't know the facts...we can only speculate. It's interesting that some feel Cam's only value would be as team leader...whereas I think it'd be great to see him as the team's daredevil, meaning MORE action! But again, all speculation here.

When I first started posting here it was to vehemently defend something I believed in...but then I started realizing that it really doesn't matter what I or you or anyone else wants....it could turn out completely differently and for anyone on either side of the debate to claim that they are secure in the knowledge that this'll happen or that'll happen is true folly.

[Lightsabre]

A demotion? What could she have done to deserve it? Nothing. She and the rest of SG1 have saved the world repeatedly over the last eight years.

It's not applicable in this case

Did you read where I wrote IT"S NOT APPLICABLE IN THIS CASE????
It's there in black and white.

I personally find this argument about Sam and Cam futile, slightly irritating and slightly funny. Discuss anything you want. That's why the forums exist. But everyone's talking about "facts" when NONE OF US KNOW THE FACTS YET! The season hasn't started. TPTB love to tease and mis-lead us, and there's no way to know yet how this is all going to shake out. You're getting yourself excited claiming things are "fact," when none of us really has an idea.

WE know some FACTS.
Carter is gone for the first 6 eps.
SG-1 is disbanded.
Mitchell is the new lead.

I'm not saying discussion is bad. But getting angry at people and arguing doesn't do anything but divide fans.....and I can't imagine that either Amanda or Ben would want that. TPTB? Maybe, because the more they keep you stirred up, the more confident they are that you'll be in front of your TV on July 15. Don't be a pawn.

We're having a discussion, it might get heated, but it's just a discussion.
I really doubt anyone is gonna not watch Stargate because of this discussion