Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[thekillman]

the System Lords like rules. we know that. the goauld fight by rules. their war is a game, just as war in our world is a game. we have banned stuff from our warfare. the goauld do the same. also, Nirrti with her cloaking tech was convicted for not sharing it.


the only way to get advancement is to have power first. same for harcesis children. banned knowledge and technology, and the only way to get around the law is to be stronger than the enforcers.


Alkesh should use their bomb ability more, just as they should use more turrets, yes. ha'tak have quite some turrets, but they're essentially a compromise between dozens of roles.

[Crazy Tom]

which is why my idea works so nice on a dozen fronts. we'd have properly explored planets, all nearby, for population expansion.

But it's not necessary, because we find half a dozen planets perfect for colonization in the first season alone.

besides, the asgard can't possibly think they have to guide us all the way. the 3.0 fleet shows how that turns out. the galaxy becomes dependent on us, while we have a powerbase we can not sustain.

in stead, i think the only way to keep the galaxy safe is for earth to power up it's allies. the FJN is important due to numbers. the tok'ra have technology and could use it's subspace links and spies to keep an eye on the major developments. and the LA would be a mashup of those things: tok'ra, minor goauld, jaffa, alien humans, possibly earth humans etc all in one faction, united by a thirst for power.

I don't think being the Fifth race is about keeping everyone safe, it's more about keeping the worst acts in check, like dealing with enemies that threaten galactic peace, doomsday stuff. Pretty much being an older sibling to the otehr races. The Asgard simply don't have the numbers to do that anymore, so they would be grooming humanity for it, perhaps by the time season 8 rolls around, with the SGU, they'd be teaching us more about their culture and history, maybe even get the Nox to lecture us a bit once in a while.
I see Earth are a first among equals type thing, with our real power being in our array of allies, with us acting as a central link between them, which makes sense given Earth's policy of exploration.

the LA merely needs to redo anubis' plan, except this time with dozens of naquahdah asteroids, and even closer to earth. in fact, there are asteroids close to earth, and our ability to detect those things is overrated. there is a massive chance that we miss an asteroid and it hits our planet, and we wouldn't know it before it's too late. well, the LA could use a tel'tak or al'kesh to tow an asteroid and smash it on earth.


in fact, that would be a nice way to reveal the gate.

Terrible way to reveal the Stargate. Riots, protests, you name it would happen as people got pissed at the IOA for making so many enemies while keeping the population in the dark.

Now that I think about it, I think the LA would be more interested in subverting Earth, possibly by delivering Kassa via cloaked tel'taks, their criminals, and Earth is one of the most populate dplanets in the galaxy, a perfect market place.

an armageddon to reveal the gate has always been what I liked. I can see the LA sending a meteor our way, it is a great way to kill us.

It would also force allot of things to happen. I think though that after revealing the gate the most powerful nations on Earth not yet in the IOA would demand access. I have also always seen it as the most oppertune moment for the EU to gain in strength. I can see the European Union turning into a confederacy, not a Federation like the USA, but a confederacy yea.

I don't see why this would catalyze any great unification. As I said above, it's likelier to cause civil war, or a swift re-election.

Then we have the so called Needle Glider, why do the Goa'uld not use those? Those are rather usefull it seems to me. After all, those things can go throe the gate and so you can send large fighter units from place to place if needed. The Tau'ri should make their own version of it.

Their not used anymore because they were a pain to pilot and they're antiquated. A new glider, with gate capability is a better option.
And yeas, Humanity needs one too, gate-capability is definitely a must for the redesigned 302.

Then we have the Space stations, Orbital fortresses, why has only one ever been seen? Are those not usefull? I'd think they are.

Spoiler:

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Space stations suck as defend-able locations. They've very vulnerable to RKV strikes. It either has to be unde4rgrond, or it has to be able to move.
That said, a Ha'Tak is a flying garrison, it's big enough to do everything a station does, stations are more like neutral meeting grounds for the Goa'uld.

[locutes]

to me, space stations should be used like in BSG and Trek

[thekillman]

But it's not necessary, because we find half a dozen planets perfect for colonization in the first season alone.

except that we don't know the actual distance from earth. my idea would have planets closer to earth.

I don't think being the Fifth race is about keeping everyone safe, it's more about keeping the worst acts in check, like dealing with enemies that threaten galactic peace, doomsday stuff. Pretty much being an older sibling to the otehr races. The Asgard simply don't have the numbers to do that anymore, so they would be grooming humanity for it, perhaps by the time season 8 rolls around, with the SGU, they'd be teaching us more about their culture and history, maybe even get the Nox to lecture us a bit once in a while.
I see Earth are a first among equals type thing, with our real power being in our array of allies, with us acting as a central link between them, which makes sense given Earth's policy of exploration.

yes the asgard should help, but not in the way of later SG1 with giving tons of tech and eventually all of it. instead, i think it's better to simply teach our scientists. their "basics of shield science" should be "ultra-high level super-complex shield science for Einstein's " to us. i can see doubling or tripling of our shield strength for example because of this, without reaching into the realm of uber.

Terrible way to reveal the Stargate. Riots, protests, you name it would happen as people got pissed at the IOA for making so many enemies while keeping the population in the dark.

Now that I think about it, I think the LA would be more interested in subverting Earth, possibly by delivering Kassa via cloaked tel'taks, their criminals, and Earth is one of the most populate dplanets in the galaxy, a perfect market place.

the LA are terrorists to us, not a superduper advanced adversary. they'd undermine our power, not challenge it.

Space stations suck as defend-able locations. They've very vulnerable to RKV strikes. It either has to be unde4rgrond, or it has to be able to move.
That said, a Ha'Tak is a flying garrison, it's big enough to do everything a station does, stations are more like neutral meeting grounds for the Goa'uld.

a planet is worse.

besides, in SG, at least you can install decent engines and evade. and you wouldn't suffer nearly as much damage due to heat waves, shock waves etc. space stations wouldn't be nearly as stationary as in real life, as they are in Stargate. if a ha'tak can move like that, we can make our space stations as well. you of course are gonna say "make it a ship then" except that it's a space station that can move. no need for hyperspace travel. it would be the "big shields and guns" type, not some weak fragile thing.


again, a planet is 1000x more vulnerable as you'd be COMPLETELY stationary. at least in space you can nuke any incoming stuff without suffering massive damage to the ecosystem. and you won't even need to defy gravity first!

[locutes]

undermining power is easy, challenging is dangerous. If you simply send some cloaked Alkesh as in a Kassa train and sell that kassa to earth you'd potentially gain allot of abilities. Tau're tech may be low tech but it is powerful, Tau'ri farming tech is most likely usefull to them.

Missiles have been shown to be effective, as have guns, acquiring those should not be hard with a few cloaked vessels and they'd up their potential vastly, I can even see the LA joining with the Trust.

[thekillman]

well i'd like to see a jaffa/tok'ra/goauld equivalent of a missiles, yes

[locutes]

I have proposed one a few months or even a year back. A powerful goa'uld explosive in a naquadah casing shot like a railgun slug to blow on the shield

[thekillman]

nah that's not a missile



more thinking along the lines of deathglider engine + Arkbomb

[locutes]

you're right I proposed something more allong the lines of a Goa'uld Photon Torpedo

[thekillman]

i'd like to see goauld elite soldiers at some point. like Ash'rak, but then as pure offense type.

[locutes]

like our special ops? That would indeed be needed.

[Crazy Tom]

to me, space stations should be used like in BSG and Trek

The practical applications of SG tech disagree with this assessment.

except that we don't know the actual distance from earth. my idea would have planets closer to earth.

Seems a tad too convenient. Either way, if we have the infrastructure to colonize, we can set up Strategic Defense systems, so there isn't much difference in terms of defensibility.

yes the asgard should help, but not in the way of later SG1 with giving tons of tech and eventually all of it. instead, i think it's better to simply teach our scientists. their "basics of shield science" should be "ultra-high level super-complex shield science for Einstein's " to us. i can see doubling or tripling of our shield strength for example because of this, without reaching into the realm of uber.

Precisely, sort of, through I doubt it would improve our shield strength three times over. Still, I don't see why they wouldn't provide hyper-drives, beaming and shields, along with an Asgard to help us operate them, they do owe us for the ARG, and the best way to teach us responsibility is to get us exposed to new things.

a planet is worse.

It has a lot more mas you can hide behind.

besides, in SG, at least you can install decent engines and evade. and you wouldn't suffer nearly as much damage due to heat waves, shock waves etc. space stations wouldn't be nearly as stationary as in real life, as they are in Stargate. if a ha'tak can move like that, we can make our space stations as well. you of course are gonna say "make it a ship then" except that it's a space station that can move. no need for hyperspace travel. it would be the "big shields and guns" type, not some weak fragile thing.

But if the ship is already strengthened to deal with acceleration, why not complete the deal and have it move, it won't cost that much compared to benefits of being able to deploy an outpost anywhere you'd like.

again, a planet is 1000x more vulnerable as you'd be COMPLETELY stationary. at least in space you can nuke any incoming stuff without suffering massive damage to the ecosystem. and you won't even need to defy gravity first!

I know. But bunkers have their uses to.

well i'd like to see a jaffa/tok'ra/goauld equivalent of a missiles, yes

Strap an inertia-less engine onto an ark bomb like Killman said.

[thekillman]

Precisely, sort of, through I doubt it would improve our shield strength three times over. Still, I don't see why they wouldn't provide hyper-drives, beaming and shields, along with an Asgard to help us operate them, they do owe us for the ARG, and the best way to teach us responsibility is to get us exposed to new things.

i think it's better if we have stuff we built ourselves and can understand ourselves in stead of using tech we can barely repair or understand.

i mean, the stuff is supposed to be REALLY advanced. can't expect a race struggling with goauld tech to understand all of it, or any of it in the first place.

we can always get cool stuff later. their "gift" would be using a small O'neill fleet to bring swift defeat to the System Lords. then we can figure out what to do with the smoldering remains of their empire. but really, the asgard have no right to point at us and say "you're the king of the galaxy now". nope, i'd like to see Humanity, the FJN, Hebridans, Tok'ra and some more grow up together.


we might incorporate SGA at some point, so we go find the city of the ancients. actually i wouldn't want to find newer ancients, in stead, i'd like to see earlier ancients. they never evolved in our region of space, but came from another. we go there, find a wraith-like race. well, turns out it was merely a pitstop in their journey. they tried to colonise, succeeded, but the wraith race detected them and saw it as intrusion, and the war started

[Crazy Tom]

i think it's better if we have stuff we built ourselves and can understand ourselves in stead of using tech we can barely repair or understand.

be that as it may, I don't think anyone at the Pentagon would turn down intergalactic hyperdrives, site to sire teleportation and powerful shielding on such grounds.

i mean, the stuff is supposed to be REALLY advanced. can't expect a race struggling with goauld tech to understand all of it, or any of it in the first place.

Again, we don't have to, we would have an Asgard aboard to help with that. Think of them lending us this stuff as an internship program.

we can always get cool stuff later. their "gift" would be using a small O'neill fleet to bring swift defeat to the System Lords. then we can figure out what to do with the smoldering remains of their empire. but really, the asgard have no right to point at us and say "you're the king of the galaxy now". nope, i'd like to see Humanity, the FJN, Hebridans, Tok'ra and some more grow up together.

Precisely what I mean. Earth's power isn't based on fleets and resources, but rather on the quality of our diplomatic relations and Humanity's cultural inheritance of innovation and adaptation. So the Asgard understand that we're not ready to Sheppard the galaxy, but they're impressed with what we've do so far, so they go like "hey not bad, I think we should give these guys a shot", so they give some stuff to help us, even become directly involved in our exploration efforts, becoming part of the Stargate Union (I assume we're going with the SG: The Alliance, after season 5 then SGU cannon post season 8?).

we might incorporate SGA at some point, so we go find the city of the ancients. actually i wouldn't want to find newer ancients, in stead, i'd like to see earlier ancients. they never evolved in our region of space, but came from another. we go there, find a wraith-like race. well, turns out it was merely a pitstop in their journey. they tried to colonise, succeeded, but the wraith race detected them and saw it as intrusion, and the war started

I don't know, Atlantis has a world of it's own issues. To me the Lantians are like the Morrigi from Sword of the Stars, the descendants of a once great people that fell into decline, and are now a shadow of their former selves. Their tehcnology would be a cut above our own, but it wouldn't be anything like you'd except from the Alteran empire at the height of it's power and influence.
We'd have to retcon a few tings to keep this impression through, no Arcturus, primitive drones. we really would need a re-imagining to fix the amount of crap SGA did wrong. Either that or we have to come up with some really amazing conspiracy theories.

[thekillman]

i dislike the idea of selective canonising.


tom, i simply dislike tech beyond our comprehension. i get that it's possible. but we just dont....need it. i want to avoid a 3.0 world where our ships have a 10x higher strenght/size ratio than other races.

i think successful use of naquahdriah and asgard help and tok'ra help on our technologies is gonna do many miracles.
the alternative is getting advanced tech and having zero progress in those fields for many decades.

nope, i'd like to see a continuous learning curve. the asgard should hold back later on, and just observe what we do. help us out now an then, but from the looks of it they have an intergalactic empire to restore. i'd like their gene problem solved by them, so they can start artificial reproduction and eventually get numbers again. the Nox could have many interesting roles. i think the Furlings should be left for dead, the Ancients too.