Who should lead SG1?(Spoilers)

[ParadoxRealities]

Is this thing about SG-5 still that "let's see what all the fuss is about" line from prototype, or have we moved on? can i get a line?

[Lightsabre]

The only time I could fine Mitchell calling himself the leader of SG-1 was in Beachhead before Sam came back (I know there's a nice big sub-debate about the implications of this, but you can't use this line to determine who leads after Sam comes back). someone wanna point me in the right direction?

Prototype, just after they arrive on Khalek's planet.

You don't need proof, the SGC is a military facility. Sam was in charge of that mission because it was an SGC mission. It doesn't need to be combat or recon. She in charge, she decides when the mission leaves. If Dr. Lee wanted to complain, go ahead, he's a civilian, but he can't just LEAVE.

Yes I do actaully. As I pointed out above(do you people not read my posts or just read the stuff you think you can refute?), we have seen multiple times that the military doesn't seem to order the scientists around UNLESS said scientists are part of the team, under the military leader's direct control.

Yeah I missed the nightwalkers thing too. Clarify?

Done already.

[Tracy Jane]

My dear lord.
In one breath I'm telling you about military and in the other, I'm arguing with people who are saying the same thing.
If Jack, Carter and Hammond are in a room, Hammond is in charge, then jack, then sam.

Now, Sam was in charge of SG-5(according to you), Sam is a subordinate on SG-1 and Cam is in charge of SG-1. Therefore, Cam is in ultimate charge of the mission.
So yes, she should have checked with him.
I CANNOT make this any clearer.

See my post above. Plus she was acting in her capacity as leader of SG5, not as member of SG1. She's not both at once.

[Lightsabre]

See my post above. Plus she was acting in her capacity as leader of SG5, not as member of SG1. She's not both at once.

Ah so now she leaves the team she co-leads to lead other teams?
And you wanted her to be the sole leader?
Jack commanded more than one team at a time.
For that matter so has Sam.
She can do both.

[Uber]

My dear lord.
In one breath I'm telling you about military and in the other, I'm arguing with people who are saying the same thing.
If Jack, Carter and Hammond are in a room, Hammond is in charge, then jack, then sam.

Now, Sam was in charge of SG-5(according to you), Sam is a subordinate on SG-1 and Cam is in charge of SG-1. Therefore, Cam is in ultimate charge of the mission.
So yes, she should have checked with him.
I CANNOT make this any clearer.

Well you can always try to make a muddy argument clearer if you want but it's a waste of time.

SG-5 (led by Sam per Landry) was there to check on the blackhole. SG-1 was there to secure the area and find out what the forwarding device was trying to hide.

Neither SG-1 nor Mitchell's presence supercede Sam and SG-5's priorities or mission nor did it make her subservient to him, both being of equal rank and all (thank you PTB). They each did their own thing and focused on their own responsibilities. Sam toward finding out about the blackhole and Mitchell toward reviving a mortal enemy.

[smurf]

Hahaha. No, I'm talking about when at the end, as Jonas says, 'You really had to hit me'. SHe could have given them a signal to let them know she wasn't infested. Maybe lie was too strong a word, but it's still deceptive.

I'd be hard-pressed to think of a signal that tells someone they aren't infested when a symbiote takes the mind and body and can act exactly like the host, and therefore may well be able to grab that secret handshake from their mind. But yeah okay deceptive in a "saving your life" kinda way, as opposed to a "putting you all in danger" kinda way

Yup, that's the bit.

Well, I'd have to disagree. They're not being set up against each other, they're just being told to watch out for each other. To set them against each other implies conflict. Mostly I got the impression that she was making Jonas feel part of the team while making sure he didn't do something odd.

[Lightsabre]

Well you can always try to make a muddy argument clearer if you want but it's a waste of time.

whatever.

SG-5 (led by Sam per Landry) was there to check on the blackhole. SG-1 was there to secure the area and find out what the forwarding device was trying to hide.

So when Sam was investigating the DHD, she was really tresspassing onto SG-1's responsibilities.
Since she wasn't under Mitchell's command(and we are agreed he was leading SG-1), then she should have been concerned soley with the black hole.
According to Tracey Jane she wasn't even ON SG-1 at the time.

Neither SG-1 nor Mitchell's presence supercede Sam and SG-5's priorities or mission nor did it make her subservient to him, both being of equal rank and all (thank you PTB).

If Mitchell is leading SG-1 and she's on it, she's his subordinate.
If she's not on SG-1, then she can do as she pleases, but then I don't see how you could make the argument that's she's 'leading' SG-1. She'd be leading SG-5.
There is absoloutly NOTHING said about Sam being leader of SG-5(which already had a leader I'll remind you) on this mission and certainly nothing that says she left SG-1.

They each did their own thing and focused on their own responsibilities. Sam toward finding out about the blackhole and Mitchell toward reviving a mortal enemy.

Again, no they didn't. Sam started inspecting the lock on the DHD, which you stated was SG-1's responsibility.

[Lightsabre]

Well, I'd have to disagree. They're not being set up against each other, they're just being told to watch out for each other. To set them against each other implies conflict. Mostly I got the impression that she was making Jonas feel part of the team while making sure he didn't do something odd.

She doesn't say, 'look after Jonas' she says, 'keep an eye on Jonas', as if to watch him. ANd the same about Teal'c. Not a good way to engender trust on your team.
Also, if it's just to make Jonas feel part of the team, why tell Teal'c to watch him?

[Uber]

I didn't say the DHD was SG-1's or Sam's or anyone's responsibility. And what do you mean by tresspassing? Where do you get these ideas?

Sam was the one to bypass the forwarding signal because no one else would know what to do so Sam would be the one to make sure they could get back home.

Sam was on SG-1 at that point. She had been since EDM. AGAIN, that didn't change her mission or her priorities per Landry.

And sorry, she was in charge of SG-5 for this operation:

CARTER: It's a report from the Tok'ra…they've discovered a gravitational disturbance with their long range sensors …

LANDRY: another Ori incursion?

CARTER: well…it could simply be a yet undiscovered black hole but the Tok'ra won't have a ship in range for some time…I've located a planet with a Stargate close to the disturbance…if you'll permit me to take a --

LANDRY: Go… SG-5 should be available. *walks off*

CARTER: Thank you sir.

So Sam takes Major Whoknows and SG-5 and goes off to take care of business.

[ParadoxRealities]

You are right, Jack tended to lead combats
but he disobeyed Hammond several times. LIke in the end of S1(can't remember the title) when they gate the coordinates from TBFTGG.
Yet he's not court martialed.
Weird you suddenly want him to be punished for it now.

Let's not. I'm just saying, whoever was in charge should have stopped him going, given they all knew about his personal stuff.

That's if the civilians report to the military.
Remember Prodigy, the first ones?the scientists are in charge and the military just make sure they don't die.
There is no evidence that the civilians report to teh military in the field and there is no evidence that Lee reported to Carter.[/COLOR]
All the evidence goes the other way.
There seems to be a wide seperation of the civilians and the military with the lead scientist working with teh head military person, not subordinate to them.
Kinda like on Atlantis with Weir and Shep. Weir is in charge of everything BUT the military.

Jack never disobeyed an order while IN combat, there's a huge difference there.
Officers have gone into combat in worse conditions, and rescuing Teal'c was much important than what he was going through. Mitchell SHOULD have known to monitor himself, its part of the job of a good officer. There is no excuse for that, and you can't blame it on Landry.
Atlantis is not set up like the SGC. Even if Paradise Lost was not a military operation, Dr. Carter still outranks Dr. Lee. Previous lines in that same ep show that ("as you should be doctor").
And why would Carter outright lie about her being in charge? (and lets not get into Sam's just a liar, eh?) If she wasn't in charge and the team decided to leave, yes, she'd be mad, but she wouldn't say "I say when we're done here". Dr. Lee wanted to ask Hammond, because he reports to Hammond, but on this mission, Dr. Carter outranks him. I have to say i trust Sam's grasp of the CoC more than Lee's.

[jckfan55]

Well, I have to say this is fascinating.
Contingent A: Everything Sam does is wrong. Contingent B: Everything Sam does is right. It's as if people are not watching the same show...

[Lightsabre]

I didn't say the DHD was SG-1's or Sam's or anyone's responsibility. And what do you mean by tresspassing? Where do you get these ideas?

According to you, Sam was in charge of SG-5, who's mission it was to monitor the black hole.
Cam was in charge of SG-1, who's mission it was to investigate why the world had an authorisation device attached to it's DHD.
So, if Sam wasn't on SG-1, she shouldn't be examining the DHD.

Sam was the one to bypass the forwarding signal because no one else would know what to do so Sam would be the one to make sure they could get back home.

Yup, but according to you, this was SG-1's job and she was leading SG-5.
For that Matter, why send SG-1 at all?

Sam was on SG-1 at that point. She had been since EDM. AGAIN, that didn't change her mission or her priorities per Landry.

Well if she's on SG-1 and Mitchell is leading SG-1(and we've agreed he was leading that mission), then she WAS subordinate to her.
And I never said Cam's leading changed her mission or priorities.

And sorry, she was in charge of SG-5 for this operation:

Never said she wasn't

[ParadoxRealities]

She doesn't say, 'look after Jonas' she says, 'keep an eye on Jonas', as if to watch him. ANd the same about Teal'c. Not a good way to engender trust on your team.
Also, if it's just to make Jonas feel part of the team, why tell Teal'c to watch him?

because they both need an eye kept on them? What, its true, they're aliens in a very earth environment. She was right to make sure they were on their toes and looking out for each other (lets not argue about wording, the inflection was fine).

[Lightsabre]

Jack never disobeyed an order while IN combat, there's a huge difference there.
Officers have gone into combat in worse conditions, and rescuing Teal'c was much important than what he was going through. Mitchell SHOULD have known to monitor himself, its part of the job of a good officer. There is no excuse for that, and you can't blame it on Landry.

Had Mitchell been killed, and it came out that Landry knew what had been going on, do you really think they'd just blame Mitchell or would Landry have to account for it? THat's what being In Charge means.
Jack couldn't disobey in combat, he's always led it.
Fact is, he has committed court martialable offences and not been court martialed.

Atlantis is not set up like the SGC. Even if Paradise Lost was not a military operation, Dr. Carter still outranks Dr. Lee. Previous lines in that same ep show that ("as you should be doctor").
And why would Carter outright lie about her being in charge? (and lets not get into Sam's just a liar, eh?) If she wasn't in charge and the team decided to leave, yes, she'd be mad, but she wouldn't say "I say when we're done here". Dr. Lee wanted to ask Hammond, because he reports to Hammond, but on this mission, Dr. Carter outranks him. I have to say i trust Sam's grasp of the CoC more than Lee's.

I don't
Here's why.

Sam, Teal’c, Jonas and Hammond are there.

CARTER: Sir, a satellite capable of pinpointing Colonel O’Neill’s tracking device would be able to cover a much greater range. The Tok’ra could retrieve it later by ship when one became available so the actual cost would be minimal.

HAMMOND: Compared to what?

CARTER: To not getting the satellite back.

HAMMOND: What about the cost of the delivery system, never mind the manpower required to get it through the Gate and then reassemble it on the other side?

CARTER: Sir, I don’t think you can place a value on Colonel O’Neill’s life.

HAMMOND: Of course not, but…

DAVIS: Unscheduled offworld activation.

HAMMOND: We’ll continue this later.

They all go downstairs.

DAVIS: We’re receiving a transmission, audio only.

JOLEN: This is Jolen of the Tok’ra. To whom am I speaking?

HAMMOND: General Hammond. Major Carter, Teal’c and Jonas Quinn are also here.

JOLEN: Major I just received your message regarding the disappearance of Colonel O’Neill.

CARTER: Do you have a ship capable of scanning the planet?

JOLEN: Yes. In fact I’ve already taken the opportunity to fly over the planet in question. There were no detectable human life signs.

CARTER: Are you sure?

JOLEN: Quite sure. I am very sorry.

HAMMOND: Thank you. Hammond out.

JOLEN: Jolen out.

The Gate shuts down.

This is the next SGC scene after Lee leaves. IF Carter was in command, and Lee left, wouldn't they be back on the planet?
Yes.
Fact is, Carter did NOT have the authority she said she did and she couldn't MAKE them stay. She was upset, which led to her outburst.

[Lightsabre]

because they both need an eye kept on them? What, its true, they're aliens in a very earth environment. She was right to make sure they were on their toes and looking out for each other (lets not argue about wording, the inflection was fine).

God, let's stop splitting hairs.
IF she wanted them to keep an eye on each other, she should have told them together. Doing it individually makes it seem like she expects the other to screw up.
that is MY opinion.
If you disagree, fine.