Who should lead SG1?(Spoilers)

[Dani347]

This is all going back and forth and I'm enjoying reading, but I don't have much to contribute. But, I did want to respond to this.

Right. Because there was no SG-1. SG-1 had been disbanded and Mitchell was to repopulate the team with young, junior officers. However prior to that happening, SG-1 was a very active, very front-line, very senior team during season eight. And that team's CO was Lt. Colonel Carter.

mg

Did they ever say that Mitchell was supposed to repopulate the team with young, junior officers?

[LtColonelSamC]

*pops head in for a minute*

I just found this thread and decided to vote; and decided to throw in my two cents. (Sorry if it seems repetitive. I injured my knee playing hockey and my computer and Stargate DVD's are keeping me company.)

I voted for Sam. I see a lot of these posts have to do with Prototype, but I honestly don't see where all the fuss is. When they arrive at the planet, Carter says she's going to the DHD to make sure they can dial home. Considering the problems they had actually getting to the planet with the whole 'call forwarding' stuff, that sounded smart. (And come on, I'd rather have Carter looking at it to make sure it works.) And then when Cam says 'let's see what all the fuss is about', she points out they'll have to wait until nightfall to see the black hole, if there is one. She tells SG-5 to set up the gravity sensors. Carter is the one with a Doctorate in Astrophysics, it just seemed natural that she would take the lead on the Science-related part of the mission. (At this point, they didn't know about Khalek.) That's my thing about that.

I also saw 'Nightwalkers' mentioned a few times. Sam...lying to Jonas and Teal'c about the stuff in the syringe and about not being a Goa'uld? This seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Jonas and Teal'c had already been captured by the time she had translated what the stuff in the syringe was. And how was she supposed to let Jonas and Teal'c know she wasn't Goa'uld without stepping out of character? I don't know.

I voted for her because, to me, she's rounded. She's got all kinds of military knowledge on her side, she's got knowledge of how the gate and subsequent technology works and she's got 8+ years of experience going off-world.

*ducks head back into ground*

[stargate barbie]

Not overly.
However, the claim was made that Carter was highly trained and acting as SG-1's defacto tactics officer.
THat is the claim I was rebutting, it had nothing to do with Mitchell.

she is highly trained, and during season 8 she was operating as sg-1's defacto military tactics officer. teal'c is clearly the best tactics and strategy guy on the team, presently, and in the past. carter contributes too, and does a good job.

are you saying that you were attempting to diminish the perception of carters value as a military officer on the team?

I don't see that this should effect whether she should lead the team or not though. tactics officers are not necessarily the best leaders. the best leaders are those who know what they are doing, listen to good advice from their subordinates (or those that they lead) when in a situation in which they would know better or happen to have a suggestion for a better option, and who have earned respect and confidence from those they lead.

there are obviously more elements involved, some of which i have covered in my previous posts, and some i have most likely missed.

in my opinion carter possesses more of these than Mitchell does, hence the reason i chose her in this poll.

[Coley]

Nononono I didn't mean that at all! Her being a woman has nothing to do with it, it would be the same with Daniel or Teal'c. Its just that the show has always worked well without her leading, and taking more of a "I can work out the problem and fix it cos i'm incredibly intellegent role." I think the team seems to work better together with a brave, central leader, not saying that Carter isn't brave but its just that she seems better in the role of Ms. Fix it.

I think you talked yourself out of your own reasoning there! However I get what you say, but don't agree.

Carter was the CO in season 8, sadly the writers failed to deliver on that content.

In all the previous seasons there were many many situations at the SCG where Carter just took control of the situation and effectively took command, with Hammond happily standing by letting Carter "deal" with the orders. She was decisive, clear, unwavering. She displayed all the requirements of a great leader. I do not understand anyone who doesn't think she could lead the team.

[stargate barbie]

Not to mention the fact that Landry said Mitchell was not there to join SG1, but to lead it.

the reason being that mitchell requested a place on the team, but when he arrived there was no longer a team, so mitchell became leader by default.

[Lightsabre]

This is all going back and forth and I'm enjoying reading, but I don't have much to contribute. But, I did want to respond to this.



Did they ever say that Mitchell was supposed to repopulate the team with young, junior officers?

Nope.
Mitchell was to create a new SG-1 team.
He recruited the old one.
I think this is the sticking point.
The old team was NOT ordered back or brought back together by the pentagon or O'Neill or Landry.
Mitchell was told to build a new team, each of the people on it agreed to join and serve under his command.
No one was forced to do anything.

[Lightsabre]

she is highly trained, and during season 8 she was operating as sg-1's defacto military tactics officer. teal'c is clearly the best tactics and strategy guy on the team, presently, and in the past. carter contributes too, and does a good job.

Teal'c is not a part of the discussion.
The claim was made the team looks to Carter for leadership and she's taken TACTICAL lead on more than one occasion.
I disagreed, presented my view and am waiting for that person's counterargument,
Yes, in S8 she was the leader and tactics officer and what not. None of that really relates to this tho, does it.
And, as I said earlier, Sam;s priority has always been tech, I could see the military side of her learning slipping in deference to that.

are you saying that you were attempting to diminish the perception of carters value as a military officer on the team?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Please don't post things like that, even as a joke. Other people don't see it that way, become very irate and flame.

I don't see that this should effect whether she should lead the team or not though. tactics officers are not necessarily the best leaders.

A part of my point

the best leaders are those who know what they are doing, listen to good advice from their subordinates (or those that they lead) when in a situation in which they would know better or happen to have a suggestion for a better option, and who have earned respect and confidence from those they lead.

So in that case, Mitchell can lead. I mean, he has all those qualities, so he must be one of the 'best leaders'.
I've yet to see Carter solicit or listen to a subordinates opinion.(please note, I may be forgetting something. If you have contrary evidence, please share it).

there are obviously more elements involved, some of which i have covered in my previous posts, and some i have most likely missed.

Yup

in my opinion carter possesses more of these than Mitchell does, hence the reason i chose her in this poll.

Disagree. See above.

[Lightsabre]

the reason being that mitchell requested a place on the team, but when he arrived there was no longer a team, so mitchell became leader by default.

He wouldn't have been either a Lt Col or a SG team member without appropriate ground skills AND leadership skills.

[the dancer of spaz]

the best leaders are those who know what they are doing, listen to good advice from their subordinates (or those that they lead) when in a situation in which they would know better or happen to have a suggestion for a better option, and who have earned respect and confidence from those they lead.

So in that case, Mitchell can lead. I mean, he has all those qualities, so he must be one of the 'best leaders'.

I should certainly hope that's not the criteria you intend to use...

Knows what they're doing: Cameron messed with Ancient technology, with which he had zero experience, causing the immediate defrost of Nubi Jr. And I wouldn't mind such a mistake so much if he hadn't a) said "I was looking for a light switch" and then b) yelled right back at Daniel for doing something that is a part of his specialization.

Listens to Good Advice From Their Subordinates When In A Situation They Would Know Better...: IF - and I stress "if" - Cameron was supposed to lead SG-1 on his own, why didn't he listen to their collective advice borne of NINE YEARS of experience when they said it'd be a bad idea to approach the space corn dealers as a buyer (which would also go against the orders of "staying under the radar")? Why didn't he listen to the leader of the mission to save Teal'c, when he had neither been present for the intel gathering nor the pre-mission briefing?

Has Earned the Respect and Confidence from Those They Lead: During one of Cameron's first "bright ideas" of looking for a light switch, Daniel set the tone for the rest of the season by addressing him as "New Guy!" and calling him on his mistake in Prototype. Sam was clearly (and deservedly) pissed at Cameron when he went all Rambo in Stronghold. And both Sam and Daniel looked pretty sick of Cameron's shenanigans (on multiple occasions) in Off The Grid. Daniel looked none too pleased when Cameron tried to shut down a potentially deep debate by just spouting off that he was right, end of story, in The Scourge - something that would have been funny coming from someone who actually knows what he's talking about. Unfortunately, this was Daniel, so I doubt very highly anyone could've known the situation better than he did.

I've yet to see Carter solicit or listen to a subordinates opinion.(please note, I may be forgetting something. If you have contrary evidence, please share it).

Dr. Lee is a subordinate. She solicits his advice and listens to it on a fairly regular basis - specifically this season. Over the years, Sergeant Siler and Walter have all been used as well. Jonas was a good source of ideas, too. Carter's not the be-all to any scientific issue, but she, like Daniel, most definitely will have the last word on any given situation.


Personally, I like Cameron as a character a lot of the times, but not as the leader. And I'm beginning to wonder if that's how the rest of SG-1 is supposed to see him, too - as an equal whom they can hang out with for Movie Nights, but not really someone whom they should follow to the ends of the Earth.

Which is fine for me. They've got each other for that.

[stargate barbie]

He wouldn't have been either a Lt Col or a SG team member without appropriate ground skills AND leadership skills.

this is partially speculation, and also this doesn't really have much relevance to the post you quoted.

[thorshammer]

I think that Jack was the perfect leader of SG1 but given the circunstances, Carter would be best IMHO.

[stargate barbie]

Teal'c is not a part of the discussion.

teal'c is part of the discussion because he is part of the poll.

So in that case, Mitchell can lead. I mean, he has all those qualities, so he must be one of the 'best leaders'.
I've yet to see Carter solicit or listen to a subordinates opinion.(please note, I may be forgetting something. If you have contrary evidence, please share it).

i disagree with most of this. i still feel that mitchell is inconsistant, and as of seeing the scourge tonight i feel that he is becoming more and more egotistical, and is not showing good leadership skills.

dancer of spaz has done the job of listing events for me, but i'll add a little more.

the scourge. sam listened to the unfortunate airman's advice and she listened to daniel's opinion and advice. thats just off the top of my head.

(for the record, i do like cameron when he's written well. and i get a laugh out of him in almost every episode)

[Lightsabre]

I should certainly hope that's not the criteria you intend to use...

Knows what they're doing: Cameron messed with Ancient technology, with which he had zero experience, causing the immediate defrost of Nubi Jr. And I wouldn't mind such a mistake so much if he hadn't a) said "I was looking for a light switch" and then b) yelled right back at Daniel for doing something that is a part of his specialization.

Go'a'uld tech is NOT Daniel's specialty. Languages are. He might have been able to read the buttons, but that doesn't mean he knew 100% what it would do.
He SHOULD have yelled back at Daniel. Someone I work with talking to me like that over an understandable mistake would be lucky if I didn't just haul off and smack them one.

Listens to Good Advice From Their Subordinates When In A Situation They Would Know Better...: IF - and I stress "if" - Cameron was supposed to lead SG-1 on his own, why didn't he listen to their collective advice borne of NINE YEARS of experience when they said it'd be a bad idea to approach the space corn dealers as a buyer (which would also go against the orders of "staying under the radar")? Why didn't he listen to the leader of the mission to save Teal'c, when he had neither been present for the intel gathering nor the pre-mission briefing?

Mitchell listened in "Off the Grid", he just didn't agree.
Nowhere do I see a requirement for a leader to abide by his subordinates advice.
He listened, he made the call. It's a bit rich to criticise him on one hand for not taking command and on the other, criticise when he does
As to 'Stronghold' this has been discussed over and over and has nothing to do with listening to advice.

Has Earned the Respect and Confidence from Those They Lead: During one of Cameron's first "bright ideas" of looking for a light switch, Daniel set the tone for the rest of the season by addressing him as "New Guy!" and calling him on his mistake in Prototype. Sam was clearly (and deservedly) pissed at Cameron when he went all Rambo in Stronghold. And both Sam and Daniel looked pretty sick of Cameron's shenanigans (on multiple occasions) in Off The Grid. Daniel looked none too pleased when Cameron tried to shut down a potentially deep debate by just spouting off that he was right, end of story, in The Scourge - something that would have been funny coming from someone who actually knows what he's talking about. Unfortunately, this was Daniel, so I doubt very highly anyone could've known the situation better than he did.

Hmm, well I'd hope, at the very least that his actions in 'Lost City' had earned their respect. He saved their butts after all.
Daniel, and I've said this before, was completely out of line yelling at Mitchell in Prototype.
As to hitting buttons, all of SG-1 has done something similar at some point.
Finally, Sam was right ot be pissed in 'Stronghold' but one stupid action doesn't or shouldn't lose you the respect of your peers.

Dr. Lee is a subordinate. She solicits his advice and listens to it on a fairly regular basis - specifically this season. Over the years, Sergeant Siler and Walter have all been used as well. Jonas was a good source of ideas, too. Carter's not the be-all to any scientific issue, but she, like Daniel, most definitely will have the last word on any given situation.

She solicit's their technical opinions. THey are, after all, experts in their fields.
She does not, on missions, ask for advice or opinions.

Personally, I like Cameron as a character a lot of the times, but not as the leader. And I'm beginning to wonder if that's how the rest of SG-1 is supposed to see him, too - as an equal whom they can hang out with for Movie Nights, but not really someone whom they should follow to the ends of the Earth.

THey should see him as both.
IT's not like they didnt' both follow and hang out with Jack

Which is fine for me. They've got each other for that.

So they should. Mitchell should be included tho.

[Lightsabre]

this is partially speculation, and also this doesn't really have much relevance to the post you quoted.

You stated he was picked to join, not lead SG-1.
I reminded you that he had the skills to lead, even if he wasn't originally slated to.

[stargate barbie]

You stated he was picked to join, not lead SG-1.
I reminded you that he had the skills to lead, even if he wasn't originally slated to.

i stated that he requested to join, and was made the leader by default (he was the only one on the team). i disagree that he has the skills to lead a SG team at this point due to his lack of experience, and evidence to suggest he's not quite ready to be the leader of a SG team yet.