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    Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan
    You're forgetting something Lightsabre. The beginning of Prototype had Sam in charge of SG-5. She went with them to check on that blackhole. The only reason they came back because of the forwarding signal. The only reason the rest of SG-1 joined her was because of the potential dangers hidden behind the forwarding signal.

    She superceded him because she was in charge of that operation to set up the proper equipment and gage whether or not the blackhole was in fact a new supergate.
    You have no proof of this. Cam called himself SG-Leader which would imply that he was leading THIS mission.
    Sam may have led the last one, but that in no ways means she led this one.
    Also, if Cam was in charge of SG-1 and Sam of SG-5, but Sam is part of SG-1, then she should have checked with Cam before giving orders.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Deejay435
      Unsure, panicky? How so? What in her behavior or dialog leads you to say this?

      She brought back hostile aliens? She brought back an SG team, as anyone would have. She had no way of knowing the aliens were disgused as them. They had no protocol set up not to bring back a team, in fact, hadn't that been why they were sent there?
      Her whole body language was tense and unsure. She didn't deal with Tonanee well at all,. If you want more specifics, you'll have to wait till I can get home and re-watch the DVD.
      And I'll turn it back around on you. In those eps, how did she show exceptional leadership qualities?

      Originally posted by Deejay435
      Again, since apologetic and 'being everyone's friend' and 'not assertive' are very subjective terms, it doesn't really answer my question. Quoting what she said and did to lead you to this decision would.
      She comes to Jack and very apologetically tells him she's to take command when he is incapcitated. Jack tells her to do it now.
      She hesitates, so he resigns.
      After that, she doesn't give orders or do much of anything except tag along.
      Make you feel better?


      Originally posted by Deejay435
      Hmmm. I'll have to watch that one again.
      Yup

      Originally posted by Deejay435
      Actually, yes. Sometimes. I've worked over 24 hours quite a bit, actually. The longest was....36 hours straight, 24 without eating. And yes, if I had left in the middle of that because I was tired, my boss damn well should have come and yelled at me. Would have been in his right to fire me. I've fired staff for the same thing. I work in a residential program with adults with mental retardation and developmental disabilities. They depend on us for their lives.
      So you being hungry and exhausted isn't a risk?
      You cannot compare what you do, however, to what was happening in that episode.
      Originally posted by Deejay435
      Back to the show: There is no evidence in that episode that the team had worked without eating or sleeping. They had been on the project for a week, but no where does it say it was without eating or sleeping, or having breaks.



      Yes. He was. He had the entire project packed up, and ready to take through the Gate when Sam returned. They were leaving.



      See above. They were packed and leaving.

      He doesn't have to submit to military discipline, he can't be court martialed. But he still works for them. And Carter was in charge on that mission, not Lee. He was insubordinate. That's not just a military term, we use that where I work...actually, everywhere I've ever worked that term has been used.
      I rewrote my reply after checking that ep, as I wasn't sure I was remembering it correctly.
      Please see above for my updated comments.

      Comment


        If Sam’s leadership skills weren't adequate, she wouldn't have been chosen to lead SG-1 in the first place. She was chosen, therefore her skills are adequate to be CO of SG-1 in wartime. I personally think you're looking at those incidents from a very bad angle, but the fact remains those "mistakes" didn't bother Hammond, Jack, the President, and the Joint Chiefs.

        Originally posted by Lightsabre
        I already said Mitchell was trying to get to the ship if he could. Otherwise, he wanted to make a hole the others could get through.
        Either way, he helps Teal'c.
        As to her 'wait for backup', she'd be in SO much trouble if she told him they were covering him(authorising his run) and he died.
        She said wait for backup cuase it was the smart thing for both Mitchell and her to do.
        The best way to help Teal'c? Mount a forward attack with three people instead of one. The best way? Stay where he was when given the order, grab some cover, cover Sam and Daniel as they come up the hill, and then go with them to take the mother ship. Three is better than both one AND two, he knew that. Granted, if the shp was ACTUALLY taking off, he should have gone for it, but he should have known he'd have a much better chance of helping Teal'c with the whole team. (Heck, he needed Sam to work the rings, but that's just and example and is beside the point.)
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        "Out of the Abyss" (SJ Angst)....................Best New Author.................."Else Close the Wall Up" (Sam)
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        Comment


          Originally posted by Lightsabre
          I'm not saying that she wasn't in command. She was. I'm just wondering if Mitchell, despite being on the mission, fell under her direct command or if he was 'attached' to it, being that he really was under no obligation to obey her.
          Attached or not doesn't matter, anyone on that mission is under the command of the designated commander. Carter was in command of the mission. Mitchell disobeyed a direct order in combat - definite court martial material.

          Originally posted by Lightsabre
          Agreed, but then, his friend DID just die. He probably made a snap decision to go on the mission. technically, Sam should have barred him from going, given his mental state.
          Technically, no. The General who just welcomed him when he walked in has given him implicit approval for his going on the mission. Any savvy officer would NOT then try to make an ass of themselves by barring them from the mission.

          As for the Dr Lee incident. A civilian scientist was on a military mission and decided to pack up and leave without consulting the mission commander. Said mission commander "ripped into him". Name me one military commander who wouldn't. And just because he said he'd submit his report to the General doesn't mean he wasn't under Carter's command.
          -

          Comment


            RealmX, you hit the nail on the head. All the nails, all the heads.

            Disobeying an order from the mission commander in a combat situation? Court martial.

            If your CO sticks someone on your mission, you keep that person on your mission. End of story.

            Sam was well within her duty as the commander to chew Dr. Lee out for trying to leave without her permission. If he had said, "look, we can't do this anymore. There's nothing here", that's one thing, but the man packed up his stuff. She'd undermine her own authority forever if she didn't reprimand him for that.
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            "Out of the Abyss" (SJ Angst)....................Best New Author.................."Else Close the Wall Up" (Sam)
            Hic Comitas Regit. Welcome to Samanda.

            Comment


              Samantha Carter. Nuff said.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Sela
                I think it's exactly that simple. Lets be real: when it comes to sci-fi shows, they are basically aimed at young men in the whole 18-25 demographic. There is a feeling out there that guys in this group will not consistantly watch a show about a female leader in charge. And before you point at Wier, she's not military and can be frequently overshadowed by the activities of the other guys.

                Also I don't believe Carter dominates the show and respectfully I ask you to re-read my posts. I started out saying how I was a big fan of Ben Browder's and I very much enjoyed Mitchell. I was extremely happy to see the character come onto the show and the team. No one is putting Ben down, least of all me.

                Lastly, how is it harder to write a good story for an established cast member? You write a good story for the leader of the team and if the leader of the team is Carter, then so be it. What have they written so far for Mitchell as team leader that Carter could not have done? One of the best characters in sci-fi, Ripley in 'Alien', was written for a guy. When they finally gave it to Sigourny Weaver, they didn't change a word of the script to adjust it because she was a woman. They played it as written and it was amaziing. I think the same thing could happen with SG-1. Don't write for a woman. Write for a team leader and let the team leader actor play it.
                Woohoo! Woman, hear me roar! You go girl

                Comment


                  Originally posted by ParadoxRealities
                  If Sam’s leadership skills weren't adequate, she wouldn't have been chosen to lead SG-1 in the first place. She was chosen, therefore her skills are adequate to be CO of SG-1 in wartime. I personally think you're looking at those incidents from a very bad angle, but the fact remains those "mistakes" didn't bother Hammond, Jack, the President, and the Joint Chiefs.
                  I was asked why I didn't think should be in command, I answered.
                  I would also point out that Mitchell's 'mistakes' also don't seem to be bothering those self-same people.
                  Originally posted by ParadoxRealities
                  The best way to help Teal'c? Mount a forward attack with three people instead of one. The best way? Stay where he was when given the order, grab some cover, cover Sam and Daniel as they come up the hill, and then go with them to take the mother ship. Three is better than both one AND two, he knew that. Granted, if the shp was ACTUALLY taking off, he should have gone for it, but he should have known he'd have a much better chance of helping Teal'c with the whole team. (Heck, he needed Sam to work the rings, but that's just and example and is beside the point.)
                  *remembers that coversation about Mitchell being emotional about his friend and doing stupid things*

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by RealmOfX
                    As for the Dr Lee incident. A civilian scientist was on a military mission and decided to pack up and leave without consulting the mission commander. Said mission commander "ripped into him". Name me one military commander who wouldn't. And just because he said he'd submit his report to the General doesn't mean he wasn't under Carter's command.
                    If he was, don't you think he would have stuck around?
                    His comments seem to indicate that Carter is NOT his boss, or else, sure as shootin', Hammond would ream him out when he got back.
                    He tells Carter that he did his job and he'd report to Hammond.
                    IF Carter was in charge, he'd be reporting to her.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by RealmOfX
                      Technically, no. The General who just welcomed him when he walked in has given him implicit approval for his going on the mission. Any savvy officer would NOT then try to make an ass of themselves by barring them from the mission.
                      Then Landry should have barred him. Fact is, he shouldn't have been on that mission.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Lightsabre
                        You have no proof of this. Cam called himself SG-Leader which would imply that he was leading THIS mission.
                        Sam may have led the last one, but that in no ways means she led this one.
                        Also, if Cam was in charge of SG-1 and Sam of SG-5, but Sam is part of SG-1, then she should have checked with Cam before giving orders.
                        Dude. The mission was to check out the black hole. That was Sam's mission with SG-5. The only reason they ended back at the SGC was because of the forwarding device. The only reason the rest of SG-1 joined them there was to determine what the fowarding device was trying to hide.

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                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Lightsabre
                          I was asked why I didn't think should be in command, I answered.
                          sorry, what? you lost me.
                          Originally posted by Lightsabre
                          I would also point out that Mitchell's 'mistakes' also don't seem to be bothering those self-same people.
                          because they haven't said anything bad? how bout something good?
                          Originally posted by Lightsabre
                          *remembers that conversation about Mitchell being emotional about his friend and doing stupid things*
                          He's disobeying direct orders and risking the mission because his friend's dieing? But doesn't Mitchell know that he's "mentally unstable"? isn't that MORE of a reason to listen to the commander? Yes, Landry let him go, but he should be able to critique and control his own actions. I bet Landry wouldn’t have let him go had he known Mitchell wouldn’t pay close attention to his own state of mind. (or was that not the angle you were going for? Sorry, your response was a bit confusing. My apologies if I’m putting words in your mouth )
                          sigpic
                          "Out of the Abyss" (SJ Angst)....................Best New Author.................."Else Close the Wall Up" (Sam)
                          Hic Comitas Regit. Welcome to Samanda.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by ParadoxRealities
                            RealmX, you hit the nail on the head. All the nails, all the heads.
                            Disobeying an order from the mission commander in a combat situation? Court martial.
                            You mean, like Jack did hwo many times???
                            Originally posted by ParadoxRealities

                            If your CO sticks someone on your mission, you keep that person on your mission. End of story.
                            Then as I siad, the CO should have barred him.
                            Originally posted by ParadoxRealities
                            [
                            Sam was well within her duty as the commander to chew Dr. Lee out for trying to leave without her permission. If he had said, "look, we can't do this anymore. There's nothing here", that's one thing, but the man packed up his stuff. She'd undermine her own authority forever if she didn't reprimand him for that.
                            Hmm, and how do you know that Dr Lee reported to Carter?
                            Do you think he'd have packed his stuff up and be leaving if he did?
                            Carter say to him "we not done till I say' and he bascially says, 'you aren't in charge'.
                            Which would seem to me to indicate that she *wasn't*
                            If he needed her permission, don't you think Teal'c would have stopped them, rather than stand and watch?
                            Basically, it doesn't look like she was in charge at all and that makes her little outburst all the worse.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan
                              Dude. The mission was to check out the black hole. That was Sam's mission with SG-5. The only reason they ended back at the SGC was because of the forwarding device. The only reason the rest of SG-1 joined them there was to determine what the fowarding device was trying to hide.
                              Your point?
                              Cam calls himself leader. Why would he do that if he wasn't leaving??

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Cherriey
                                All hail Lightsabre! New leader of SG-1!
                                hey wait just a cotton pickin' second here! i offered a jello fight! (albeit to the death, but a jello fight is a jello fight, lets not be picky here)

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