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SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

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    SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Ok we're at the end, the writers intend to make this not contradict existing canon. At the start there were a lot of apparent contradictions that have now been explained. The intention of this is to make an exhaustive list of everything people might think is a contradiction:
    1. Langfords going through the gate - Aset uses a modified version of the Kara'kesh to wipe the memories of Catherine, Prof Langford and Kasuf, everyone else dies - except Wassif and his boyfriend who are mind wiped into becoming Ra's guards. The only character from the series who would remember is Serqet and Ra.
    2. Using a car battery to power the gate - Not a contradiction - SG1 did the exact same thing in "1969". As well as the car, SGO also used a flood light generator. It's been established that the Gate only needs a bit of power for the initial activation, before using the DHD on the other end to keep it powered.
    3. Aset appearing - this has been considered a contradiction as Aset is another name for Isis and we know that she died before 1939 (The Curse) - This has been explained in the mission file for episode 7 -

      To summarise: The Isis in a jar in "The Curse" is the original and Aset is a clone. Isis cloned herself and changed her name is Aset and went underground, recently presenting herself to Ra who has kept her existence secret to hide cloning tech from the other system lords
    4. Catherine is with James and not Ernest - Not a contradiction - remember this was 6 years before the opening of Torment of Tantalus is set, relationships can change. Also, the Kara'kesh takes away Catherine's memories of Beal
    5. Catherine's age - dialogue in TOT implies that Catherine was 21 in 1945, which would make her 15 in SGO
      Originally posted by TTOT
      CATHERINE
      The military had very little use for a 21-year-old girl at that time. Neither did my father. I only know what little I overheard him and Ernest talking about.
      However this would also make her 4 years old in the Giza dig scene, which she isn't. So she was probably approximating her age or referring to her age when the research started
    6. No pyramid on Abydos - There is a pyramid they just don't gate into it, Ra decides to move the gate in episode 10
    7. They could see stars when they went through the gate
      I think this is an actual contradiction, but one that can be fanwanked explained away. I was always under the impression that travellers were democularised on passing through the event horizon and re-assembled on the other end. So they shouldn't have seen anything. The gate travelling effect is just a visual thing for the audience.

      I guess they could have been referring to the point while their face is in the "water", just before demolecularisation. I don't believe that we ever saw the what they see in this period or heard it described
    8. Goa'uld permanently glowing eyes
      Mission file for episode 6 explains that Aset developed retinal implants
    9. The Abydobian healing device

      Explained in mission file.

      Originally posted by mission file ep 5
      Motahk and Kasuf both call for the Wand of Horus, a special healing device gifted to the villagers by their god, Aset. The device was a new creation of Aset’s, utilizing similar technology seen in a sarcophagus to enable those without high levels of naquadah in their blood to heal wounds in the field. The end use for such a technology was actually for a new military force that Aset had been planning, but gifting a prototype to her tribespeople served the dual purpose of field testing while ensuring their continued loyalty without the aggression her fellow Goa’uld so enjoyed. Aset, in all her wisdom, would never have imagined the wand would be used on a being who served no benefit to her cause, though.
    10. DHD buttons not lighting up when pressed in episode 4
      A few people have commented on this, but this isn't an issue. Look at the scene carefully. She presses the first button and it does light up, then she merely searches for the rest and puts her hand on each one as she goes - but doesn't actually press down for the remaining 5
    11. Gate looking more metallic

      At first I was willing to dismiss this as a production choice, and therefore wasn't going to include in this list. But we saw in episode 4 a gate being cleaned for the first time in the entire franchise. So it's obvious that all the gates we saw previously were simply dirty
    12. Kasuf's age
      Kasuf appears to be late teens in this, which would put him in his 70s-80s by the time of the original film/early SG1. The original Kasuf actor (Erick Avari) is a lot younger than this (40s/50s) - but I think we can all agree that he looks a lot older than this in the film. - If indeed it is the same Kasuf
    13. Catherine calling the Stargate the "gate"
      This one is especially nitpicky - but she should have known it as the "doorway to heaven" - Daniel Jackson was the first to translate it as "Stargate" in the movie.
      That said, the Nazi man does refer it as the "gate" in front of her - and he probably got the translation correct.
    14. Catherine working on the gate
      In SGO Catherine is presented as Prof Langford's assistant and seems to know a lot about the gate. However in TTOT their relationship seems strained and she isn't working on it. We know that they don't have the best father-daughter relationship due to how easily they got into an argument in Ep1. Perhaps in the intervening years between SGO and TTOT they had a falling out, and this was compounded by the fact the US military wouldn't allow her to work on it.


    Please use this thread to discuss other contradictions and speculate on possible explanations for all this.

    In terms of it fitting into canon... There's no real impact on the story of the movie or SG1. It's a bit like a Fandomonuim novel or Big Finish audio in that sense. You can take it or leave it.
    Last edited by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac; March 9, 2018, 12:56 PM. Reason: updates for 8,9 & 10
    Jedi_Master_Bra'tac, previously known as wako!



    #2
    I explain her age as that she meant she was 21 when she got rejected when the US program started, which I assume was when it was brought to America in 1939. Which makes her 20-21 in Origins.

    Most people complaining about the VW powering the gate don't seem to understand they had a separate generator as well. (I'll admit I was a bit perplexed at that, until Catherine did it.)

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
      1. No pyramid on Abydos - remember it was nearly 60 years before the movie so it obviously wasn't built yet
      .
      How do you know there is no pyramid? It's more likely the pyramid was built as soon as Ra colonized the planet, because he needed a safe place to land each time he would come in his ship, the same way with the Giza pyramids, which were built not long after he arrived on Earth.

      I have another explanation, bear with me:

      Do you remember the Star Trek reboot? It was both a sequel and a reboot. It kept all the continuity from the existing franchise but introduced a major event that chronologically happened after Star Trek Nemesis, which saw the Romulans and Spock travel back in time. That time traveling changed the past, resulting in the alternate timeline that set up the reboot.

      Now, Stargate Origins is considered (by MGM) as a prequel and canon. So what if it's the reverse of Star Trek? Instead of creating a new timeline, the events take place in an alternate timeline chronologically before any of the original continuity. Something eventually happens that causes the timeline to change into the true timeline that we see in the film and shows. This way, the events of Origins still have to happen in order to get to what we consider the "prime" timeline, while those of us who don't like Origins can safely ignore all of it as if it never happened.

      Remember the Atlantis episode "Before I Sleep"? It explained that in the "original" timeline, Atlantis never resurfaced and the whole expedition was lost, except for Dr. Weir who accidentally traveled far back in time to right before the Lanteans left for Earth. This changed the timeline so that Janus programmed the city to resurface once it detects the expedition arriving, resulting in the "prime" timeline we see from the pilot onward.
      Last edited by NickEast; February 17, 2018, 03:45 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
        There's been a lot of fuss about the canon being broken, and a lot of people getting mad about it and wanting to boycott the show because of it. Now of course the big thing is the Langford's going through the gate, which hasn't been explained yet, but I've also seen complaints about stuff that aren't contractions at all.
        I'm happy you made this. Criticism of a series is fine, but i think SGO is receiving more hate than it really deserves. I also don't think canon is nearly as important as people think. SG1 broke with loads of movie canon, yet it turned out fine.
        Originally posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
        Langfords going through the gate - Currently unexplained. I recently re-watched Torment of Tantalus and it's clear that in 1945 the Langfords didn't know the gate's true purpose, they had assumed it was a weapon.
        Daddy langford thinks he's in the past, whereas the occultist seems to think that he's literally in heaven (though think greek "olympus" heaven, not christian "souls passed on" heaven). It could be that Catherine completely misunderstands the nature and purpose of the gate.

        By the time of the movie it seems they knew and understood most of the gate (again, they'd dialled up to 6 symbols), but the true purpose wasn't understood until daniel correctly translated "gateway to heaven" as "star gate".

        Originally posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
        [*]No pyramid on Abydos - remember it was nearly 60 years before the movie so it obviously wasn't built yet
        Was there? I thought they are in the main pyramid. But this could explain a lot actually. If the pyramid is still under construction, then the Gate would have to be moved there. It could make it inaccessible for a few years as the Gate is put in storage and then moved (wouldn't want a kawoosh into your sparkly new pyramid).
        Last edited by thekillman; February 17, 2018, 10:56 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by nivao View Post
          How do you know there is no pyramid? It's more likely the pyramid was built as soon as Ra colonized the planet, because he needed a safe place to land each time he would come in his ship, the same way with the Giza pyramids, which were built not long after he arrived on Earth.
          Originally posted by thekillman View Post
          Was there? I thought they are in the main pyramid. But this could explain a lot actually. If the pyramid is still under construction, then the Gate would have to be moved there. It could make it inaccessible for a few years as the Gate is put in storage and then moved (wouldn't want a kawoosh into your sparkly new pyramid).
          I'm referring to this establishing shot:



          I figured the building is the base of the pyramid we see in the movie and show, and that the Pyramid hadn't been built. But I guess the other explanation is simply that the gate gets moved to the pyramid.

          Originally posted by thekillman View Post
          Daddy langford thinks he's in the past, whereas the occultist seems to think that he's literally in heaven (though think greek "olympus" heaven, not christian "souls passed on" heaven). It could be that Catherine completely misunderstands the nature and purpose of the gate.

          By the time of the movie it seems they knew and understood most of the gate (again, they'd dialled up to 6 symbols), but the true purpose wasn't understood until daniel correctly translated "gateway to heaven" as "star gate".
          Here's the relevant dialogue:

          Originally posted by TTOT
          CATHERINE

          My father headed up a research team that worked on the 'gate during the war. Actually, they didn't know what it was then. President Roosevelt was like that—curious. They suspected the 'gate was a weapon and could be used as one. Nothing ever came of it, though.
          Originally posted by TTOT

          FLASHBACK

          INT—LANGFORD DINING ROOM,1945

          [Ernest and Catherine's father, Langford, are seated at the dining room table.]

          ERNEST
          (excitedly)
          There must be over a hundred million possible combinations. If it's merely a combination lock used to turn it on, why 39 symbols? Why not six?
          LANGFORD
          (irritably)
          What are you saying?
          ERNEST
          They're not combinations. They're destinations, and we just found one.
          LANGFORD
          A doorway to heaven can mean any number of different things. It could simply mean that anyone who passes through there will die…
          We see that Ernest is on the right lines here.
          The prof speculates that it might kill you, how can he think this when he went through previously and survived?

          There's also the fact that TOT is implied to be Catherine's first trip in the gate.

          It might be that the Langfords had misunderstood the gate, but I think the above implies they had 0 idea what it was. They should at least have an inkling after this
          Jedi_Master_Bra'tac, previously known as wako!


          Comment


            #6
            Yes! Thank you for making this thread. I also believe that its still premature the judge the dis-continuity of the show. How many times have we seen the main plot twist/explanations come only in the 3rd act of a movie that blow people's mind/preconception (like the total unexpected villain twist in Spiderman:Homecoming).

            Langfords going through the gate - Currently unexplained. I recently re-watched Torment of Tantalus and it's clear that in 1945 the Langfords didn't know the gate's true purpose, they had assumed it was a weapon
            My theory is that they both know the gate's true purpose and they cover it up. The why has to do with what happens for the remainder of the story. Or it will be a simple inconsistency unlike the differences between the movie and SG-1.

            No pyramid on Abydos
            Best guess is Ra built it on top of Aset's palace once Aset is killed/captured/exiled? by the end of the SGO series, with the Stargate left inside the palace/inner pyramid chamber, so that O'Neill and Jackson arrive years later in the movie.

            Comment


              #7
              I hope the last scene will be that they put the gate in box on the board of the Achilleus. That would be a nice tie to Continuum. It would be even better if Ben Browder could have made a small cameo (or someone with the same clothes).
              "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

              "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

              "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Supergater View Post
                My theory is that they both know the gate's true purpose and they cover it up. The why has to do with what happens for the remainder of the story. Or it will be a simple inconsistency unlike the differences between the movie and SG-1.
                One would wonder why Catherine will lobby for so many years to get the program started again... Waste 2 years not making any progress before hiring Daniel Jackson.... And why need Daniel Jackson in the first place when you already know the symbols are star constellations, and that you needed a 7-symbol combination to open the gate?

                Yeah, perhaps it's a cover-up... But very very very very very far-fetched explanation when put in contrast with the character's actions later in her life..

                Originally posted by Platschu View Post
                I hope the last scene will be that they put the gate in box on the board of the Achilleus. That would be a nice tie to Continuum. It would be even better if Ben Browder could have made a small cameo (or someone with the same clothes).
                With a cameo from Ben Browder... That would be awesome

                Comment


                  #9
                  Regarding Aset. The Stargate Official Fanpage on Facebook has actually said that the canopic jar issue will be resolved during the next 7 episodes. Kind of spoilery for them to say, actually. They have also commented on multiple occasions that all apparent continuity issues will indeed be resolved. I doubt all will, but it would seem they hit some kind of reset button at the end of the show.

                  Here's a link to the Aset comment:
                  Facebook post

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Osiristi View Post
                    Regarding Aset. The Stargate Official Fanpage on Facebook has actually said that the canopic jar issue will be resolved during the next 7 episodes. Kind of spoilery for them to say, actually. They have also commented on multiple occasions that all apparent continuity issues will indeed be resolved. I doubt all will, but it would seem they hit some kind of reset button at the end of the show.

                    Here's a link to the Aset comment:
                    Facebook post
                    Awesome to hear this!!! Thanks for sharing!

                    Originally posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac
                    Very interesting! Nice to see how much attention to detail they've paid.

                    Now - from The Curse we know that Isis was sealed in a jar 1000s of years ago, and by 1931 it was at the bottom of an ocean. So unless there's time travel shenanigans going on, she may have just faked this... Maybe the symbiote escaped the jar and found a host on earth in 1931, and made their way through the gate.
                    In "The Curse", the symbiote was found still in the jar, dead and intact/complete. It was examined by Sam & Janet. So it can't really have escaped the jar AFTER 1931 and come back to it BEFORE 2000 while it was at the bottom of the ocean.

                    I see three remaining possibilities, feel free to add any other:
                    1. Timeline erasure (lame) by either time travel, parallel universe, etc.
                    2. The dead symbiote found in the jar was a clone. Which means Osiris/Sarah Gardner was probably a clone too.
                    3. Still is a continuity mistake after all. Their explanation won't completely add-up and make sense.

                    While #1 feels a bit "lame", they could always tie-in a different timeline explanation with the events from Moebius. There were fishes in O'Neill's pond after all. But I'd hate to think that we must from now on disregard 8 seasons of SG-1 and doubt everything that happened before Moebius as "might or might not" have happened. Putting this scene as a joke is fine (as was the original intent), making it a meaningful integral part of the Stargate storyline is quite another.

                    The hint from the Facebook comment seems to disproves the Gateworld theory that Aset & Isis are not the same Goa'uld. Why else would there be something to resolve about her "being in a jar"? If it's a different Goa'uld then there will be nothing to explain. And apparently there's going to be an explanation.

                    But the important point here is that this issue WILL BE resolved, and not left unanswered

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Maybe the Asguard turn up and say "nope, not progressed enough to play in our sandbox, try again in 50 years" and wipe everybody's minds regarding the trip.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jerem View Post
                        The hint from the Facebook comment seems to disproves the Gateworld theory that Aset & Isis are not the same Goa'uld. Why else would there be something to resolve about her "being in a jar"? If it's a different Goa'uld then there will be nothing to explain. And apparently there's going to be an explanation.
                        I'll have to rewatch the rest of the series along with everyone before I say for sure. But offhand I don't recall any evident explanation of a symbiote called "Isis" (or Aset) being in the canopic jar found by the Stuart expedition ...

                        It could be that Aset's final fate will be explained in the Episode 10 Mission Files on Stargate Command.

                        It's theoretically susceptible to a logical retcon. But unless we have a legit timeline change caused by "Moebius," a retcon would seem to depend upon Seth being tricked into thinking the symbiote he was imprisoning was Isis when in fact it really wasn't.

                        (I'm also not sold on the Goa'uld having cloning technology back in the 1930s ...)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by GateWorld View Post
                          I'll have to rewatch the rest of the series along with everyone before I say for sure. But offhand I don't recall any evident explanation of a symbiote called "Isis" (or Aset) being in the canopic jar found by the Stuart expedition ...

                          It could be that Aset's final fate will be explained in the Episode 10 Mission Files on Stargate Command.

                          It's theoretically susceptible to a logical retcon. But unless we have a legit timeline change caused by "Moebius," a retcon would seem to depend upon Seth being tricked into thinking the symbiote he was imprisoning was Isis when in fact it really wasn't.

                          (I'm also not sold on the Goa'uld having cloning technology back in the 1930s ...)
                          There were two jars recovered by the Steward expedition. One called the "Isis jar" and the other called the "Osiris jar". The Osiris jar was lost in a lab explosion which killed Daniel's mentor/professor (thus triggering that particular episode's story). The jar mostly seen throughout the episode is the "Isis jar" in which they find a perfectly preserved Goa'uld symbiote, most presumably Isis itself considering the jar's name.

                          Considering it was called the "Isis jar" multiple times in "The Curse", one must assume it refers to the identity of the symbiote within. Especially when considering the other jar was referred to as the "Osiris jar" and turned out to really be containing Osiris.

                          You could still have a case here of mistaken identity. Seth could have put someone else inside the jar without knowing himself, that wouldn't be incompatible. Still not a satisfying explanation though if you ask me.

                          I'll call it possibility #4
                          4. Case of mistaken identity on the part of Seth.

                          Originally posted by GateWorld View Post
                          It's theoretically susceptible to a logical retcon. But unless we have a legit timeline change caused by "Moebius," a retcon would seem to depend upon Seth being tricked into thinking the symbiote he was imprisoning was Isis when in fact it really wasn't.
                          I agree. Seems like a retcon is still probably the safest bet at this point. Might come in the 10th episode's "Mission Files" as you suggested.

                          Originally posted by GateWorld View Post
                          (I'm also not sold on the Goa'uld having cloning technology back in the 1930s ...)
                          While I'd be extremely surprised (and a bit sad) that Isis turn out to be Aset's clone, I wouldn't call "cloning technology" out-of-reach considering what we, lowly humans, already are achieving in this area since the 90s. We even have a great examples in-universe like in "Nightwalkers", where Flemming from Immunitech successfully cloned Adrian Conrad's symbiote using purely human technology. If humans can clone symbiotes, surely a Goa'uld scientist could too?

                          (I don't really enjoy the cloning explanation either, but the other hypotheses I've seen surface so far haven't been very compelling either)

                          The more I struggle on the subject of Aset's identity, the more I just want to avoid it entirely. Why couldn't the writer pick-up any other yet unnamed/unknown Goa'uld? The fact that they picked Aset for their protagonist, and that it seems they really made their homework when writing the story for SGO, leads me to believe this is no accident/coincidence.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Ian-S View Post
                            Maybe the Asguard turn up and say "nope, not progressed enough to play in our sandbox, try again in 50 years" and wipe everybody's minds regarding the trip.
                            Probably my favorite theory yet

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Anyone noticed the LIVE rewatch for tomorrow?

                              The fact it's "Torment of Tentalus" and "1969" looks too much of a coincidence with the picked-up "inconsistencies" about SGO to be an accident.

                              I'm thinking they want to refresh everyone's memory, in advance of the next SGO episodes released the next day. Or perhaps simply respond to the inconsistency backlash from last week's episodes.

                              Comment

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