All That We Leave Behind

[SF_and_Coffee]

There will be action coming up. Cromwell's going to have a couple of altercations to deal with in his first 48 hours on the planet. But I will warn you, this story was never intended as an action-fest. It's much more of a "hero's journey" tale, in which action sequences are interspersed among learning experiences, exploration and periods of reflection. This is especially true in the first half of the story.

[mathpiglet]

Sounds interesting!

[mathpiglet]

I read chapters 3 and 4 today and I'm being drawn in! Excellent descriptions; I can see the village and the people. Your comparison of the languages was masterful.

Questions:

1) How do you pronounce Nenniaw?

2) When does one capitalize Stargate?

[SF_and_Coffee]

I read chapters 3 and 4 today and I'm being drawn in! Excellent descriptions; I can see the village and the people. Your comparison of the languages was masterful.

Thank you!

Questions:

1) How do you pronounce Nenniaw?

2) When does one capitalize Stargate?

1) I don't really speak Welsh (I'm learning), but to the best of my knowledge, it should be NEH-nyow, with the second syllable sounding much like the word "now" only with a "y" sound just after the "n".

I use some resource pages for things like this, including this page, this one and this one. Also,this is another good one. It's a resource aimed more at the historical study of Middle Welsh, from the medieval and pre-medieval period, which would actually be a lot closer to Pridanic than Modern Welsh would be.

2) I've chosen the convention of not capitalizing stargate when the word is used by any character who would habitually think in either Pridanic or in Goa'uld/Tok'ra, since neither language treats it as a name or a proper noun. For the Goa'uld/Tokra side of this, there is precedent in other fic and in canon, as the word chappa'ai (the Goa'uld/Tok'ra name for the device) is generally not capitalized. I've decided that the Pridani don't either. Their word for it is drws rhyng y byd -- literally, "the door between worlds" -- and when you see "stargate" written in the speech or thoughts of a character speaking Pridanic, they are of course really saying either drws rhyng y byd or chappa'ai, since by virtue of close association with the Tok'ra via Cadogan/Sabar and company, many of them opt to use the same word the Tok'ra use.

Because of this, Cromwell will come to utilize the same convention when speaking Pridanic, and will retain it afterward because it will have acquired the force of habit. I myself refrain from capitalizing it most of the time in this story due to writing so much of it from within the POV of characters who think in these patterns and languages. The exceptions are this: When Cromwell thinks/speaks specifically of the gate on Earth, he is more likely to think of it as a proper noun, which will be indicated by capitalization, and when someone from the SGC uses the word in speech or thought, it will also be treated this way.

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

This is only the second fan fiction I have read with the other being Return of the Ancients.I have read all 19 chapters in like 3 days really good stuff. I like the addition of the love interest I hoping you would do it, so long as it doesn't take up too much room. I know from your on the story you were concerned but I think it is important addition to a story.

I like how much attention you give to language it is really refreshing from the usual everyone in 2 galaxies speaks English. I also like the techno-babble it's sounds good but I don't know how you can be bothered .

I have a few tiny quibbles though, I feel you are portraying Frank as too good I mean with him getting the language so quickly, being competent in history and science and being in a command position. I feel he needs to make at least a few mistakes lol. And in chapter 11 I think I felt that it was a bit out of character of O'Neill to punch a wall maybe it's just me.

Now I am I right in thinking

Spoiler:

Frank went back in time a decade or more from what Teal'cs comment that those marks in the ground made from a Ha'tak bombardment being old. And the coin being found in the stream.

Looking forward to chapter 20.

[SF_and_Coffee]

This is only the second fan fiction I have read with the other being Return of the Ancients.I have read all 19 chapters in like 3 days really good stuff. I like the addition of the love interest I hoping you would do it, so long as it doesn't take up too much room. I know from your on the story you were concerned but I think it is important addition to a story.

Thank you! Yes, it's an important part, both to round out Cromwell's experience there and also to drive another portion of the plot.

I like how much attention you give to language it is really refreshing from the usual everyone in 2 galaxies speaks English. I also like the techno-babble it's sounds good but I don't know how you can be bothered .

If I had a time machine and a large sum of money to spend on education, I would go back and get a Ph.D in Historical and Comparative Linguistics, with a concentration in Celtic languages. I'm absolutely fascinated by language as a conceptual whole, and also by history and culture. I do historical re-creation from the late Roman era to 1600 AD as a hobby in my spare time, with a particular emphasis on the British Isles.

Though I will say in at least the original SG-1 series' defense that I never saw them as implying that everyone on other worlds spoke English; I always took it as implied after the first few episodes that Daniel had to translate most of the time, but that the writers didn't want to waste valuable screen time showing us that, and instead expected the audience to fill in that blank for themselves, so that they could devote more time to the actual plot of each episode rather than to multiple iterations of dialogue as would have been necessary to show each translation.

I have a few tiny quibbles though, I feel you are portraying Frank as too good I mean with him getting the language so quickly, being competent in history and science and being in a command position.

Ah, the dreaded Mary Sue/Marty Stu problem. I've been trying very hard to avoid that, and you're the first person so far who has suggested that I may not have been completely successful. It's okay to say so, though.

Here's my take on Frank:

His competence in history and science is justified to a large extent, and I'll tell you why. Obviously, as the author I can't portray him as knowing anything in these fields that I don't know well enough to write about it, meaning that I'm using my own knowledge as a basis for his. However, in comparing myself to Frank as if he were a real person, I actually have far less formal education than he has. In order to be a commissioned officer in the US military, you have to have a Bachelor's degree in something. Frank has a BA in history. In order to be promoted beyond the rank of major in the US military it really helps if you have a Master's degree in something, and at full colonel, Frank is two steps beyond major. So he has a Master's degree, again in history because his original plan was to serve his term as an Air Force officer and then become a history teacher or possibly pursue a doctorate and become a history professor.

As for science, he enjoys it as a subject of individual reading just for interest, as well as being a science-fiction fan. (The two often go hand in hand, after all.) I've channeled myself into Frank in the intellectual sphere, as I pursue history as a hobby and science as a reading interest... yet I myself only have a two-year Associate's degree in Humanities/Liberal Arts, with some university courses beyond that, but not enough for a BA. And I'm the same age (46) that Frank is when the story opens, so we've had the same number of years to learn from interest and experience. If I can understand these things with my somewhat limited formal education, Frank certainly ought to with his more advanced degrees. (Mind you, I'm informally self-educated in a lot of things... I'm an auto-didact, someone who decides they want to learn about a topic and goes looking for resources on it, on their own. Frank does that too, in the sciences. That's why he subscribes to magazines like Scientific American. I'm a subscriber myself. )

With regard to language, that's why I gave him a Welsh grandmother who spoke the language and taught him. I knew that he'd have no chance of learning Pridanic quickly without some background in a closely-related language, and that my readers wouldn't sit still for long periods of his not knowing the language. I needed him to be able to communicate in order to advance the plot to the action. I'm drawing on my own personal experience of having immigrant grandparents and great-grandparents who still spoke Swedish at home. I could easily have grown up bilingual in Swedish and English if I'd pestered them to teach me, but I didn't - something I regret to this day.

And as for being in command, here are a few things to remember about Frank's Air Force career: like his friend Jack, he is a professional military man. At the time of his fall through the gate at the SGC, Frank has been an Air Force officer for 24 years. He has been in Special Operations for 22 of those years, and in command of his own unit for eight years. All of this shows, in his conduct and demeanor, and the level to which his skills are apparent. Another seasoned military commander would recognize the signs, and Cadogan does. Remember, Cadogan has been a military officer in his own right for a century, and the leader of the entire Celtic rebellion on five planets for eighty years (he's been Sabar's host for eighty years, and the position of leader for the human contingent of the rebellion traditionally belongs to whomever is Sabar's host, since Sabar himself is the leader of the Tok'ra faction who aid the Celts in this endeavor). So Cadogan and Sabar, along with team leaders like Nenniaw, quickly recognize in Frank the ability and experience necessary for a leadership position, and decide to give him one since they are in need of team leaders.

Additionally, the US military requires its officers to pursue continuing education in the form of PME, or Professional Military Education, provided by the military itself to prepare officers for positions of increased leadership and responsibility as they are promoted up the rank system and the chain of command. Frank, being a full-bird colonel, would have taken quite a lot of his PME coursework in places like this, in addition to having been trained in many of the skills listed here, as a Spec Ops/ Special Tactics officer.

In short, Frank knows his stuff, simply because the Air Force has required him to. On Earth, he and Jack were no ordinary airmen. They were members of an elite force, the cream of the crop, best of the best. And although Cadogan does not know the details, he can sense this in Frank, because someone of Cadogan's caliber and experience would be able to.

I feel he needs to make at least a few mistakes lol.

Well, that's part of why I highlighted his temporary state of illiteracy, and did not enable him to learn to read and write Pridanic without help, despite having spent eight months trying. In fact, those eight months of trying when he could have asked for help were intended to illustrate the flaw of pride*, especially when it could have resulted in real problems if he'd run into written orders on a mission. I may need to rewrite that section to more fully point this out. It's definitely food for thought.

* not pride in the sense of thinking highly of one's own skills and accomplishments, as I have taken care to cast Frank as a man who, while confident in his own abilities, has a very modest and almost self-effacing nature. Rather, this is pride in the sense of feeling that he ought to be able to resolve his own problem without having to ask for help in doing so. Like many very driven people, Frank hates to show weakness or ask for help when confronted with something he feels should be within the realm of his abilities, even when it has become clear that he needs to.

Also, Frank has made plenty of mistakes in his past, before leaving Earth (some of which we will see in flashbacks and dream sequences), and he will make more of them on his sojourn among the Pridani, as well. Stay tuned and you'll see.

And in chapter 11 I think I felt that it was a bit out of character of O'Neill to punch a wall maybe it's just me.

It was intended to show him at his most extremely stressed-out, something we as viewers would rarely see. Although remember how Jack reacted at the gathering after Daniel's memorial service in Season 1's "Fire and Water"? He took a hockey stick to Hammond's car, and bashed in the windows. Jack is perfectly capable of momentary overreaction, but we never see it unless he is extremely upset. In "Fire and Water" he was reacting to the perceived loss of Daniel, a very close friend (some might say one of his best friends) who was also under his command. In ATWLB, he is reacting to the fact that his best friend ever (despite their eight-year rift) is missing and he can't get on with the search for him, and that this man is missing due to his own failure to grab him as he fell. I think he has cause to be at his wits' end. But no, I don't intend for this to be seen as Jack's normal demeanor, because it isn't. This is Jack on the thin edge of losing it, something rarely seen, and the fact that he is acting this way in front of his teammates is not lost on Jack himself.

Now I am I right in thinking

Spoiler:

Frank went back in time a decade or more from what Teal'cs comment that those marks in the ground made from a Ha'tak bombardment being old. And the coin being found in the stream.

You are indeed.

Spoiler:

Exactly how far is something that will be revealed both to him and to the reading audience in another few chapters.

Looking forward to chapter 20.

With luck, I will have that up by early next week (Monday or Tuesday) if not sooner. Real life keeps getting in the way, but I'm working on it.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I feel this is a good time to put forth a request/reminder to my readers who may be participating in this thread:

As of right now, this story has progressed to the point where many readers are making guesses regarding Frank's situation and major elements of the plot. I'm fine with that! However, in order to enable other readers to enjoy the story in the same manner that you have, I would like to remind anyone who wishes to engage in guesswork or to discuss events that are crucial to the plot but that may have been subject to a lead-up before having been revealed in the story, to please use spoiler tags, both in what you post, and in what you quote from others here if they have used them. That way, the surprises can remain surprises.

Thank you to Ben for using them , and for thus reminding me to place this reminder here. I will repeat it periodically, simply so that it remains fresh in everyone's mind and especially the minds of those who may join this thread later.

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

And as for being in command, here are a few things to remember about Frank's Air Force career: like his friend Jack, he is a professional military man. At the time of his fall through the gate at the SGC, Frank has been an Air Force officer for 24 years. He has been in Special Operations for 22 of those years, and in command of his own unit for eight years. All of this shows, in his conduct and demeanor, and the level to which his skills are apparent. Another seasoned military commander would recognize the signs, and Cadogan does. Remember, Cadogan has been a military officer in his own right for a century, and the leader of the entire Celtic rebellion on five planets for eighty years (he's been Sabar's host for eighty years, and the position of leader for the human contingent of the rebellion traditionally belongs to whomever is Sabar's host, since Sabar himself is the leader of the Tok'ra faction who aid the Celts in this endeavor). So Cadogan and Sabar, along with team leaders like Nenniaw, quickly recognize in Frank the ability and experience necessary for a leadership position, and decide to give him one since they are in need of team leaders.

[...]

In short, Frank knows his stuff, simply because the Air Force has required him to. On Earth, he and Jack were no ordinary airmen. They were members of an elite force, the cream of the crop, best of the best. And although Cadogan does not know the details, he can sense this in Frank, because someone of Cadogan's caliber and experience would be able to.

Hasn't this been a problem with how they say that Jack is pilot and involved in Special operations. Isn't it the case that in the Air Force you can't be both a pilot and and a soldier. So you are doing nothing compared to what the writers have done in the past with giving the characters to many skills. I don't think you are giving Frank too many skills, just enough to keep the story going.

It was intended to show him at his most extremely stressed-out, something we as viewers would rarely see. Although remember how Jack reacted at the gathering after Daniel's memorial service in Season 1's "Fire and Water"? He took a hockey stick to Hammond's car, and bashed in the windows. Jack is perfectly capable of momentary overreaction, but we never see it unless he is extremely upset. In "Fire and Water" he was reacting to the perceived loss of Daniel, a very close friend (some might say one of his best friends) who was also under his command. In ATWLB, he is reacting to the fact that his best friend ever (despite their eight-year rift) is missing and he can't get on with the search for him, and that this man is missing due to his own failure to grab him as he fell. I think he has cause to be at his wits' end. But no, I don't intend for this to be seen as Jack's normal demeanor, because it isn't. This is Jack on the thin edge of losing it, something rarely seen, and the fact that he is acting this way in front of his teammates is not lost on Jack himself.

Forgot about that it's ages since I have seen that ep, I think I have only seen Fire and Water once all the way through.

Thanks for the long reply, it's appreciated.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Hasn't this been a problem with how they say that Jack is pilot and involved in Special operations. Isn't it the case that in the Air Force you can't be both a pilot and and a soldier.

My take on that would be that Jack didn't do them both at the same time. He may have started out as a pilot, and then switched to Spec Ops. People can and do sometimes change from one area to another during the course of a military career. Frank didn't start out in Spec Ops either. That came a couple of years into his career.

So you are doing nothing compared to what the writers have done in the past with giving the characters to many skills. I don't think you are giving Frank too many skills, just enough to keep the story going.

Thanks. I've tried to give him a fully useful, well-stocked and yet believable tool kit.

Thanks for the long reply, it's appreciated.

Thanks for reading it. I realize that it was nearly a story in itself.

[SF_and_Coffee]

New chapter of All That We Leave Behind is up! Chapter is called "Before I Sleep".

Fanfiction.net (T-rated version)

My own website (Adult version)

I've also begun archiving this story at Symbiotica, in its adult version

This chapter was, in some ways, one of the more difficult ones to write, and I don't know why. So if you have any comments or questions, please don't hesitate to post them, especially if something in it either really worked for you, or really didn't.

[WraithRichard]

I'm on the beginning of chapter 9 now and I'm finding it a bit hard to keep track of someone of the new characters. They seem introduced too quickly and vaguely, unlike the others who got some time to be individuals before being thrown into a large group.

But hey, it's kept m interest up to to this point and I want to keep reading.

[Sealurk]

Only really had a chance to sit down and read anything in the last day or so, but managed to get a good five or six more chapters under my belt nevertheless - just finished chapter sixteen. Still thoroughly enjoying it.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I'm on the beginning of chapter 9 now and I'm finding it a bit hard to keep track of someone of the new characters. They seem introduced too quickly and vaguely, unlike the others who got some time to be individuals before being thrown into a large group.

But hey, it's kept m interest up to to this point and I want to keep reading.

I'm glad you're bringing things like this up. The only way I know what does or doesn't work for readers is if they tell me and ask questions. Feel free to elaborate on who or what you're confused about, either here in the thread with SPOILER tags, or by sending me a private message. I'll do my best to clear it up, and I'll take a look at whatever chapters and/or passages you cite to see if perhaps I can edit them to make them more clear. The whole point of this is to make the story work as well as possible so that when I edit into its definitive completed state for submission to sites that only archive completed works, it will be as good as I can make it.

Spoiler:

I will say this though: if you've just finished Chapter 9, some of the OCs that I've just introduced will be explained more fully in the upcoming chapters. I'm writing very much from within Cromwell's POV most of the time, so that the reader experiences what he experiences, which means learning things at the same time that he learns them. If I were writing in 3rd person omniscient rather than a sort of serialized tight 3rd -- by which I mean that I attempt to keep each chapter, or at least each scene, fully in the POV of one character and write from within that character's head, although I eventually write from within the heads of nearly everyone over a long span of chapters -- I could give all sorts of background before the POV character learns it. By remaining firmly within one person's head at a time, I'm trying to draw the reader into the story as a personal experience. Make sense? Cromwell has just met these people himself, and he is confused about them, so by writing from within his POV, I am attempting to give the reader the same feeling that Cromwell himself has during this portion of the story. Chapters 10, 12 and 13 should help clear up some of the confusion, although if you still notice people or situations I could explain more fully in them, don't hesitate to tell me, okay?

Only really had a chance to sit down and read anything in the last day or so, but managed to get a good five or six more chapters under my belt nevertheless - just finished chapter sixteen. Still thoroughly enjoying it.

Music to my ears! Thank you!

[WraithRichard]

Spoiler:

I got lost when Dynawd and Cadogan (a bit less when you introduced the cadlywydd, but he's almost as vague)were introduced, likely other characters with names that I've forgotten. I don't have a look or feel or personality to attach them to, so they don't stand out as characters my mind whats to keep track of

I'm getting confused about people.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Spoiler:

I got lost when Dynawd and Cadogan (a bit less when you introduced the cadlywydd, but he's almost as vague)were introduced, likely other characters with names that I've forgotten. I don't have a look or feel or personality to attach them to, so they don't stand out as characters my mind whats to keep track of

I'm getting confused about people.

Spoiler:

Okay, let's work from this passage in Chapter 7:

Judging from the teapot and cups occupying space in front of some of the chairs, some meeting or other had recently concluded. Only one other person was currently present, however. A man of about Cromwell's own height and probably just a bit older, to judge by his face, stood near the table. He had light brown hair shading heavily to silver at the temples, and was clad in what appeared to be a uniform — a gray tunic, with matching trousers tucked into boots that reached above mid-calf. He was studying a small, flat metallic object, a portion of which glowed, but blinked and looked up as Tesni entered the room, her guest in tow. Tucking the object into a belt pouch, he came to greet her. "Tesni, fy nith. It is good to see you again." A smile lit his face as he clasped her shoulders.

The man just described there is Cadogan, and a few paragraphs later, we also learn that he has hazel eyes. So, he's Frank Cromwell's height, graying - though not as heavily as Frank is - has hazel eyes, and based on the appearance of his face, Frank thinks that Cadogan is probably just a little bit older than himself, perhaps somewhere in his early fifties.

Cadogan IS the cadlywydd. It's his military rank, basically equivalent to general. Cadogan is also the human host to the Tok'ra symbiote Sabar. Cadogan and Sabar together lead the rebellion against the Goa'uld named Bel, who brought the Pridani to Tir Awyr (P2A-870) a couple of thousand years ago. Cadogan also happens to be Tesni's uncle. Better now?

Dynawd is Nenniaw's brother, and both of them are basically military team leaders in what amounts to the local branch of the rebellion's militia in the district encompassing the settlements of Llanavon, Dinas Coedwyg and Bren Argoed. I'll throw you a fact now that you'll learn later but it might help you keep things sorted: Dynawd and Nenniaw are also related to Tesni and Cadogan... they're cousins, basically. Think in terms of a clan, more or less, because that's what it is.

I suppose I probably should insert descriptions of Nenniaw and Dynawd beyond what teensy bit I put when they first showed up right after Frank arrived in Llanavon. I'll see what I can do.