Fic help.

[Whytewytch]

She was asking about base commanders, and mentioned two; the etcetera seemed to be there to avoid typing a longer sentence.

I should've mentioned Jack--I love Jack & would love to see him with a relative that drives him round the bend. The etc was there to avoid the longer sentence and to cover my SG-1 ignorance. And, yeah, I'm trying to stick as close to canon as possible. If someone's an only child and that's canon, I don't suddenly want to introduce them as being one of eleven children or something. Mind, I will be introducing a character, so it won't be completely canon.

[SaraBahama]

Oooo! Oooo! We're forgetting that Weir was a commander of the SGC for a short time (end of season 7?). I don't know if we have any family members of hers mentioned, since she went on to be Atlantis commander in SGA, and I didn't follow the first 3 seasons of SGA.

...anyone?

And I understand what you mean, whytewytch (about if a character is said to definitely not have family in canon): Jack's a pretty blank slate...we just weren't told anything.

I think it's implied that he spent some time in his childhood with his grandparents (off the top of my head on that -SF may have more on that).

[SF_and_Coffee]

I honestly don't know for sure on Jack. I seem to recall something like that as well, but whether it's from canon or from fanon is beyond me to decipher right about now. I can do some research if I can find both time and more than two brain cells to rub together...

Spoiler:

...and if they haven't carted me off for killing my soon-to-be-ex. Seriously, I've about given up on trying to help organize this new apartment we're in or anything, because everything I do is wrong, even if it's what I was told ten minutes ago that I should be doing. At this point, I'm just ticking down the time until I can manage to move away without him...

[iiradned]

Oooo! Oooo! We're forgetting that Weir was a commander of the SGC for a short time (end of season 7?). I don't know if we have any family members of hers mentioned, since she went on to be Atlantis commander in SGA, and I didn't follow the first 3 seasons of SGA.

...anyone?

Weir did have a fiancee. He was played by the same actor who played Narim of the Tollan. He had a cameo where he watched Weir's message as she headed of to Atlantis. And he returned as part of the virtual world in the season episode Home and for real in the season 2 episode The Intruder where he broke off their engagement.

[SaraBahama]

Two questions:

1) anyone else find themselves constantly editing or over-editing their work as they write?
(it's personally driving me nuts right now).

2) for those of you who have written longer works: do you begin with an outline -a general idea of the beginning, middle, and end? do you write scenes as they occur to you and string them together as inspiration strikes? what happens when the Muse takes you in a direction you didn't anticipate -does it change your outline?

[SF_and_Coffee]

Two questions:

1) anyone else find themselves constantly editing or over-editing their work as they write? (it's personally driving me nuts right now).

Oh, absolutely. I do that all the time, though I do think that each pass improves it slightly. Then again, I'm a perfectionist anyway.

2) for those of you who have written longer works: do you begin with an outline - a general idea of the beginning, middle, and end? do you write scenes as they occur to you and string them together as inspiration strikes? what happens when the Muse takes you in a direction you didn't anticipate -does it change your outline?

All of the above. I don't generally start with an outline as such from the very beginning, but rather will sit down and write whatever my inspiration has given me. My Muse has a tendency to dump the beginning of a story into my head while giving me no true idea of where it's going to go, and I write what flows through me. Once I've gotten a bit of that down, though, I will then go over it and attempt to generate some sort of outline from it, working from a logical progression of what might be expected of those characters in that situation. Then, as Mme. Muse sees fit to bring me more scenes, many of which don't even come in chronological order, I will write them and then fit them to the outline. Sometimes she will in fact send the entire story off on a tangent with a scene, and if it seems to be an improvement on my original outline, I will change the outline to accommodate this. These things have all happened in my current project, in fact. And just today my Muse brought me the beginning of another story in the same universe, a prequel involving one of my original Tok'ra characters from ATWLB. I had been planning to write his backstory as a standalone/companion piece anyway, and now I have a better idea of how I'm going to do that. (I'll share it with you if you like, since it doesn't spoil ATWLB in any way.)

[Conn8d]

1) YES! It's a major habit of mine that can really slow me down...sometimes I am able to combat it by trying to only look at the key board and not the screen. That way I can see what I want to edit. Then I bribe myself by setting aside a specific reread/edit after I finish a certain amount.

2) Granted I am writing my first everr long story right now so, I don't have much experience but here's my 2 cents. I get a loose outline set first. As loose as possible, basic start, middle, and end. I then write down tentatively what the major arcs and beats are.
Mine has several threads so I make sure that I have an idea of things from each perspective, and know when to weave them in. For example, the Romance, the Adventure part, the political thriller. Now, that said I do allow myself to write scenes as they occur to me on a list. When I get seetled in to do some hardcore writing I look at those scenes and see if and how they might fit. This is why I leave the outlines on the looser side, s o that I can change it if I need to. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.

As for the muse going off in a direction I didn't anticipate, I have had that happen, and I have gone with it, made a new outline etc, but I can't say that I always would.

[SaraBahama]

Thanks SF -

This question was for my ficting AND my RL story I'm trying to write. The RL one, I know how it begins, and have a vague image of the the middle, but I have no idea where the end is coming from. On top of that I keep getting flashes of scenes within the middle that may or may not affect the end.

Driving me nuts, I tell ya.

And on the driving nuts line of thinking: I worry that editing too much doesn't improve my work, but quite the opposite -I'm afraid that I may edit out something that I have that is good and valid. Also I've discovered it may be better for me to WRITE, word-dump style, and then go back and edit, as editing as I go has the unsavory effect of throwing my muse into cardiac arrest. It's crippling.

[SaraBahama]

Thanks also Conn!

[SF_and_Coffee]

Conn, I do the "different threads" thing too! Not so much in ATWLB, but it will have several sequelae, and I've actually written the different threads/arcs as separate pieces to some extent, with the intention of weaving them together. I haven't tried that before, but I'm curious to see how it will suit me as a writing method for long, complicated works.

[Conn8d]

It is a different kind of outlining I can tell you! I guess the best metephor I could use to describe it is that it feels like I am literally 'braiding hair' in the story sense.

I haven't got much experiece with it, but as it looks like my fic will spawn sequals, its becoming an even more necessary skill! From what I have read of ATWLB, I think that you will probably do very well at it

edit: 1001!

*is unreasonably excited that the thread post number for this is a palindrome*

[SaraBahama]

*raises hand like small school child*

Ok -you guys are WAY past me! I haven't attempted something that complex, and while I hope to in the future, I'm not in any condition to try it now. I'm about up to the plot + subplot level with the Island story I'm working on.

But keep talking as I take notes

[SF_and_Coffee]

Sara: Well, basically what we're talking about here is in the "plot + subplot" category. For instance, in both By Honor Bound and Undying, two of the sequelae to ATWLB, there will be primary plots involving missions through the Stargate and what those missions mean for the people involved in them. In Undying there will also be strong implications for the Tok'ra as well. Meanwhile, there will be sub-plots involving various aspects of the characters' lives and their relationships with other characters and with the world beyond their work. In writing these stories, which I'm working on concurrently with ATWLB, I'm treating each of these sub-plots as a separate thread of the story and using the main plotline as my outline, into which I plug (or "braid", to use Conn's word) the other elements as appropriate. Make sense?

Conn: Thanks for the praise.

[Conn8d]

*raises hand like small school child*

Ok -you guys are WAY past me! I haven't attempted something that complex, and while I hope to in the future, I'm not in any condition to try it now. I'm about up to the plot + subplot level with the Island story I'm working on.

But keep talking as I take notes

To echo SF_and_Coffee, basically 'threading' is just plot and subplot(s).The complexity comes from the different subplots, I guess. There is the main idea, but then there are side plots and other moments to worry about. For example: Why does the villian do x and not y? Which interests are being served if the Lucian alliance attacks earth? Is there a power vacuum created by this leaders death? How do these two characters become friends or enemies in the story?

It's interesting, but also a bit confusing if your not careful about keeping track of everything. I think it is helping me be more careful with my writing, which is good because I really want to improve my skills.

[SaraBahama]

Sara: Well, basically what we're talking about here is in the "plot + subplot" category. For instance, in both By Honor Bound and Undying, two of the sequelae to ATWLB, there will be primary plots involving missions through the Stargate and what those missions mean for the people involved in them. In Undying there will also be strong implications for the Tok'ra as well. Meanwhile, there will be sub-plots involving various aspects of the characters' lives and their relationships with other characters and with the world beyond their work. In writing these stories, which I'm working on concurrently with ATWLB, I'm treating each of these sub-plots as a separate thread of the story and using the main plotline as my outline, into which I plug (or "braid", to use Conn's word) the other elements as appropriate. Make sense?
Conn: Thanks for the praise.

I think I follow. I may have to read your work to get a clear picture.

The Islands story I'm starting is my first long fic, and my first with a complex plot. It will be good practice.

It's interesting, but also a bit confusing if your not careful about keeping track of everything. I think it is helping me be more careful with my writing, which is good because I really want to improve my skills.

Improving my skills was the reason I started writing fic. I have a RL story crying to be written, but I needed practice. And the characters are just so much fun to play with.

Thanks to both of you!