The Martin WooHoodStock Thread

[DutchIndeed]

Aw, sorry I got it wrong I read Sinterlkaas as Santa Claus (you have to admit they do sound the same ) So you get to do Christmas twice, sort of? Two lots of presents? Hmmm...I like the sound of that

Ow, I didn't mean for that to sound like ''I know it better'' or something!
It's just that it's quite the issue that Christmas is the more commercial holiday and some people get peeved when the stores get out all the ''seasonal decorations and merchandise'' before Sinterklaas has been... It's the battle of december holidays

(And in fact, Sint=Saint=Santa and Klaas=Claus, so yes, Sinterklaas and Santa Clause do mean exactly the same )

Yes, we have to december celebrations with presents. Some do both and have smaller presents with Sinterklaas and more expensive ones with Christmas and some do 'only' one holiday with presents.

...Having parents from two different cultures, I have to do both

[Fainne]

It has nothing to do with Christmas! No! Sinterklaas and Santa Clause are quite the... opponants.
See... Yes, Santa is a... spin off from Sinterklaas. (Ok, it's the same guy) but over time it started to be two different feasts.

Sinterklaas (the way Dutchies celebrate) is a saint who, amongst other things, protects children. Therefore we celebrate his birthday, the day before the date of his death (due to the fact that it has been a childrens holiday ). Eventhough it started off as a religious thing, it's no longer that way. It now is more of a Old Dutch celebration. We mainly celebrate by buying presents, making surprises and writing poetry.

Christmas is the baby Jesus thing with the lights and big decorations. That we celebrate like most other Western countries do. Most with the more expensive presents and stuff. And an official Second Christmas day

Point is... Sinterklaas and Christmas are totally different things, even if the origins are pretty much the same. We have both holidays, but both have a meaning of their own.

...Yes, some Dutchies are quite fanatic about seperating our Sint from our Santa. Sorry

And eh... Yay Martin!

OMG i just saw something about that on TV. Sinterklaas is probably the same like the german Nikolaus who protected the children - as you said. But we celebrate his date of death and give gifts to the children. But then Martin Luther came, sepperated his church from the catholic one and he never wanted to celebrate the holy personalities. But he didn't want to pass on the holiday with presents either so he changed the date of Jesus' birthday into that day with presents - well, at least that's what I remember

Here in Germany the children have to clean their shoes for Nikolaus because he only puts presents in clean ones. *cleans boots thoroughly and hopes Martin will sit in there in the morning*

[DutchIndeed]

You sneeky editing you...

Is it only the Dutch that do that? Or other countries as well? It's interesting how different cultures' celebrations differ. It's like the US celebrating Thanksgiving....I think they're the only ones that do that (but of course, I could have got that wrong as well )

Either way, I think we should start a new tradition and celebrate Martin Wood day (just wish we knew when his birthday was, that would at least give us a date to work on ) If we don't get an answer from Joe, I vote we pick a day and just celebrate the heck out it in Martin's name

No, other countries do it as well, albeit differently. I think Belgium has something that looks most like 'our' way of celebrating, it's a day after and they do funny things with donkeys, I believe...


And I agree on Martin Day.

[Jumble]

Ow, I didn't mean for that to sound like ''I know it better'' or something!
It's just that it's quite the issue that Christmas is the more commercial holiday and some people get peeved when the stores get out all the ''seasonal decorations and merchandise'' before Sinterklaas has been... It's the battle of december holidays

(And in fact, Sint=Saint=Santa and Klaas=Claus, so yes, Sinterklaas and Santa Clause do mean exactly the same )

Yes, we have to december celebrations with presents. Some do both and have smaller presents with Sinterklaas and more expensive ones with Christmas and some do 'only' one holiday with presents.

...Having parents from two different cultures, I have to do both

No, I didn't take it that way

Sounds really confusing to me (but then, you know how I feel about Christmas )

Hope you enjoyed it and had lots of cuddles with 'our' new neice

Fainne if it was that easy, I'd be polishing every shoe and boot I possess

Editing again Funny things with Donkeys? I don't think I want to know.............

[DutchIndeed]

OMG i just saw something about that on TV. Sinterklaas is probably the same like the german Nikolaus who protected the children - as you said. But we celebrate his date of death and give gifts to the children. But then Martin Luther came, sepperated his church from the catholic one and he never wanted to celebrate the holy personalities. But he didn't want to pass on the holiday with presents either so he changed the date of Jesus' birthday into that day with presents - well, at least that's what I remember

Here in Germany the children have to clean their shoes for Nikolaus because he only puts presents in clean ones. *cleans boots thoroughly and hopes Martin will sit in there in the morning*

Yes. It's the same saint again

I believe that you guys celebrate it in a different way... I don't remember what it was, but is it more... sober? (And I don't mean without alcohol ) Less... outrageous? Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
...You don't have the Black Pete's right?

And our kids don't need to clean their shoes. Our Pete's fill the smelly ones too

[DutchIndeed]

No, I didn't take it that way

Sounds really confusing to me (but then, you know how I feel about Christmas )

Hope you enjoyed it and had lots of cuddles with 'our' new neice

Fainne if it was that easy, I'd be polishing every shoe and boot I possess

Editing again Funny things with Donkeys? I don't think I want to know.............

Good
And it does sound confusing, but it all becomes clear when you lived with it for a while And Sinterklaas is less... stressful

And Sinterklaas will give our neice her first stuffed penguin!
(And he gave me two kissing penguins )


Edit: Hehe.
Here he travels by wite horse, I believe that in Belgium he uses a donkey

[Jumble]

I think we should make sure she gets a stuffed penguin every year, just to make sure she's being brought up 'right'

[Fainne]

And I agree on Martin Day.

as long as we don't know his birthday we could celebrate every sunday - or even every day - like it was Martin Day

Fainne if it was that easy, I'd be polishing every shoe and boot I possess

well it's worth a try, isn't it?

Yes. It's the same saint again

I believe that you guys celebrate it in a different way... I don't remember what it was, but is it more... sober? (And I don't mean without alcohol ) Less... outrageous? Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
...You don't have the Black Pete's right?

And our kids don't need to clean their shoes. Our Pete's fill the smelly ones too

hmm, more sober, less outrageous - well all i can remember is presents in our shoes and nothing else. well maybe because our family is not really religious. I'm sure christian people do more on that day...

hmmm, well there also is Knecht Ruprecht who "takes care" of the dirty shoes... but until the report about it on 'TV today i thought they were one person xD Don't know Black Pete yet, maybe he's your version of Knecht Ruprecht?

somehow it reminds me of this pic

[EH-T]

Message from Amanda about tonight's episode of Sanctuary (includes nice mention of Martin):

http://www.sanctuaryforall.com/

[Bekki]

You're welcome

And while I'm here....................

Squee - I just realized I am holding the N in Martin! Woohood!

Ooh - *adds nerdy knowledge of Christmas vs Sinterklaas*

Almost every tradition of Christmas is taken from somewhere else (which is why I love it so much! squeee) The Sinterklaas shoe candy thing can be traced back to pre-christian Europe, when Oden used to fly around on his huge horse, giving people gifts in their shoes on Yule (Winter solstice) Christmas is most likely celebrated on the 25th of December because of the closeness to Yule. IIRC, sources say that Jesus was born in...summer? I can't remember...but not in December. When Christianity was brought to Europe, they replaced pagan holidays with Christian ones (which i think was great - who needs killing when you can just have slow merge into new religion) Easter bunnies actually come from the pagan holiday Ostara (spring equinox)

The American Santa Claus, was at first Sinterklaas. He was pictured as a Dutch sailor with a green coat. The belief that Santa first wore red because of Coke is wrong - it was a political cartoonist who first gave hima red coat. He became Santa properly, instead of the Englishized "santa claus" (sinterklaas) because of a book that L Frank Baum (author of wizard of oz) wrote about Santa.

So, technically, Santa is Sinterklaas, but not the other way around. Santa is adapted from Sinterklaas and used for a different reason.

And that concludes Bekki's boring lesson on Christmas for today

*wodners if that rambling made any sense*

[Jumble]

Isn't it fascinating how these things have been changed and adapted over history?

So, Oh Wondrous Font of Uselessful Information, why do millions of people eat turkey (IMO the most apallingly awful and tasteless bird ever roasted ) every Christmas?

[Bekki]

Isn't it fascinating how these things have been changed and adapted over history?

So, Oh Wondrous Font of Uselessful Information, why do millions of people eat turkey (IMO the most apallingly awful and tasteless bird ever roasted ) every Christmas?

It is an honour to serve

Christmas Turkeys - like most Christian traditions started off as neither turkeys nor for Christmas. The tradition was originally pagan, and the bird was usually a goose or a swan or a peacock.

In pre-christian times, birds were sacrificed on holidays, such as Samhein (New Year) They were sacrificed as thanks to the gods (Odin and Thor ) for the good harvest, and when the dead goose went into the earth once its flesh had been eaten, it represented winter and would ensure a good seeding and harvest for the next year

Like most Christmas traditions, this was brought to the Christian world. People most usually ate geese. The origin of the turkey as a Christmas food is unknown, but it is generally believed that turkeys (north american) were brought to england as a gift from the New World from Sebastian Cabot's officers.

The end

This is fun - any more questions?

Edit: And while making sure I got Sebastian Cabot's name right, I ran across the real Martinmas! How did I not know that it already exists?!

[RodneyIsGodney]

Some icons...





I realize(now) that they are a bit big but it'll take too long to re-size and time is something I do not have atm. Sorry.

[Bekki]

Size Shmize, they're fabulous, RiG!!!

*applauds*

*snurches*

[RodneyIsGodney]

Size Shmize, they're fabulous, RiG!!!

*applauds*

*snurches*

Thank you. Thank you.

*bows*

*curtsies*