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Can John Sheppard stop thinking with his libido already?

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    Can John Sheppard stop thinking with his libido already?

    I know that some people like the "humor" in it while others like to look at a man oggling an attractive woman since "boys will be boys", but come on, writers!

    How did this episode start out? With another "John <3 teh ladiez" joke. Oh, he took some (soft, hah!) scientists out with a jumper (it sounds like a volunteer mission). Oh, one of them is female and attractive. So what does he do? He volunteers to stay behind just so he can flirt with her (and/or stare at her creepily without flirting).

    OK... what? I'm sorry, what? Lieutenant Colonel John Sheppard, we know you're a flyboy, we know you're sex on legs, we know you like the ladies. But what?

    You're the military commander of Atlantis. You shouldn't even be there. There are plenty of people with the gene on Atlantis who aren't a ranking senior member in a commanding position! From the sounds of it (and logic), you randomly volunteered to do it yourself instead of doing the more obvious: Sending someone else.

    And once there,you stayed behind, not because there was a need for you to, but because you liked some chick.

    It's OK to flirt with people left and right in your spare time. But while on duty? Not so much (though John doesn't seem to care about this). What if, while you're busy flirting , something were to happen back on Atlantis?

    A foothoold/invasion? Explosion? An attack? Anything that requires the military commander to be present to prevent further deaths? People could die because you weren't there to prevent it because you felt like oggling some girl (who gave you the cold shoulder when you threw in a not-so-subtle pickup line, hah!)!

    What if Kolya had chosen to attack the city directly (somehow) instead? What then? People could die and the city could fall because you were oggling some girl and needed 10 minutes to fly back to the city!

    For the love of puppies, writers. We know you like women, you know you like to have Lieutenant Colonel John Sheppard flirt with women. But can you stop having him flirt with women at the most inopportune (and inappropriate) times?!

    He has a duty to Atlantis and to Earth. But, of course, chasing tail supersedes this.

    Even Teyla disapproved.




    #2
    I have to agree with you there, but it was a plot device used by the writer to get John away to have him and 'Kolya' duke it out. That and I have always seen John as one to ocassionaly use his postion to further his needs. Not in a bad way, but his typical I love the girls way .

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      #3
      Originally posted by vatazes View Post
      I have to agree with you there, but it was a plot device used by the writer to get John away to have him and 'Kolya' duke it out. That and I have always seen John as one to ocassionaly use his postion to further his needs. Not in a bad way, but his typical I love the girls way .
      The problem is that the Atlantis writers have this really bad habit of foregoing pretty much everything in order to shoehorn in plot devices.

      And this wasn't some kind of mandatory plot device. He didn't have to have been there for flirting with a girl. He could've been there to escort some random scientists, none of which he was flirting with. But they chose to have him flirt with a girl.



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        #4
        Do we know he was on duty, perhaps he had a couple of days off? Both Rodney and Ronon volunteered to accompany Keller in Tracker on their day off for similar reasons.

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          #5
          Originally posted by pilgrim soul View Post
          Do we know he was on duty, perhaps he had a couple of days off? Both Rodney and Ronon volunteered to accompany Keller in Tracker on their day off for similar reasons.
          Nothing was mentioned about a day off. Rodney also wondered where John was, indicating he should've been there with him were he not on the escort mission (if it was a mission).

          Unless you wanna infer that John had a few days off and Rodney had no clue about it... and that neither Teyla or Ronon felt like saying that John had the day off when explaining his whereabouts. Also, we have Teyla's choice of words. She didn't say he volunteered to take the scientists to the mainland, just that he volunteered to stay behind. Thus, we can infer that taking the scientists there was a mission while staying behind was a voluntary choice.



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            #6
            Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post
            The problem is that the Atlantis writers have this really bad habit of foregoing pretty much everything in order to shoehorn in plot devices.

            And this wasn't some kind of mandatory plot device. He didn't have to have been there for flirting with a girl. He could've been there to escort some random scientists, none of which he was flirting with. But they chose to have him flirt with a girl.
            Yet another example of how JM thinks of the male/female dynamic. (see Travelers and The Tower I think). And he had Shep acting like he didn't understand a word of what the scientist was saying, which I find silly. Shep is too old to go mooning after a woman like this, and it's not as if he's unable to attract a woman (or man for that matter) without acting childish. Actually most of the characters have the emotional maturity of a 13 year old, so this is not really surprising. Although Sheppard is my favorite character, I found this part of the episode to be distasteful.

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              #7
              Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post
              Nothing was mentioned about a day off. Rodney also wondered where John was, indicating he should've been there with him were he not on the escort mission (if it was a mission).

              Unless you wanna infer that John had a few days off and Rodney had no clue about it... and that neither Teyla or Ronon felt like saying that John had the day off when explaining his whereabouts. Also, we have Teyla's choice of words. She didn't say he volunteered to take the scientists to the mainland, just that he volunteered to stay behind. Thus, we can infer that taking the scientists there was a mission while staying behind was a voluntary choice.
              Just because it wasn't specifically mentioned that he had a day off doesn't mean he didn't and its common sense that most of John's days off are spent on Atlantis so Rodney could well know that John had a day or two off and still wonder where he was. I don't see anything in the episode that suggests John was shirking other duties and responsibilities, at no point was he needed back on Atlantis and I don't begrudge the guy a little flirtation.

              I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

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                #8
                Originally posted by pilgrim soul View Post
                Just because it wasn't specifically mentioned that he had a day off doesn't mean he didn't and its common sense that most of John's days off are spent on Atlantis so Rodney could well know that John had a day or two off and still wonder where he was. I don't see anything in the episode that suggests John was shirking other duties and responsibilities, at no point was he needed back on Atlantis and I don't begrudge the guy a little flirtation.

                I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
                We cannot use the "it's probably this way" argument. We can only judge an episode on what was shown. Not once was the term "day off" used, thus I will not assume he had the day off just because it would or would not suit my side of the debate.

                He was not shirking duties per se. He was just prioritizing chasing tail on a seemingly unimportant mission (for the military commander of Atlantis, anyway) over being back at the city.



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                  #9
                  Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post
                  We cannot use the "it's probably this way" argument. We can only judge an episode on what was shown. Not once was the term "day off" used, thus I will not assume he had the day off just because it would or would not suit my side of the debate.
                  I've never been someone who feels that every last detail needs spelling out to me while I'm watching TV, sometimes you just have to read between the lines and put 2 and 2 together yourself. Just because something isn't specifically stated on screen doesn't mean the opposite is true. Your argument doesn't work because the term "on duty" is never used either and by your logic that would mean he had to be off duty.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by pilgrim soul View Post
                    I've never been someone who feels that every last detail needs spelling out to me while I'm watching TV, sometimes you just have to read between the lines and put 2 and 2 together yourself. Just because something isn't specifically stated on screen doesn't mean the opposite is true. Your argument doesn't work because the term "on duty" is never used either and by your logic that would mean he had to be off duty.
                    It's not about reading in between the lines. In this case, you're making an assumption based on absolutely nothing other than your desire for John to not have chosen to go on a mission that didn't require his presence just to chase some tail.

                    Nothing in the episode indicates he had a day off. Previously when characters had days off, there was on-screen dialogue to indicate that. Now, there was none.



                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post
                      It's not about reading in between the lines. In this case, you're making an assumption based on absolutely nothing other than your desire for John to not have chosen to go on a mission that didn't require his presence just to chase some tail.
                      No I totally agree that he went on the mission "just to chase some tail" - but unlike you I have absolutely no problem with him doing that, he's a single guy why should he live like a monk?

                      The problem I have is that you seem to think that he has in some way ignored his responsibilities and duty to the expedition and put his own desires first and I, personally, don't see anything in this episode to suggest that is the case. In previous episodes I might have seen your point but not this time around.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by pilgrim soul View Post
                        No I totally agree that he went on the mission "just to chase some tail" - but unlike you I have absolutely no problem with him doing that, he's a single guy why should he live like a monk?
                        That's not the point. He's allowed to do... in his spare time. I never argued he shouldn't be allowed to flirt with anything that moves (even if I find it distasteful) as long as it's done "appropriately". Don't puts words in my mouth or strawman my argument.

                        Originally posted by pilgrim soul View Post
                        The problem I have is that you seem to think that he has in some way ignored his responsibilities and duty to the expedition and put his own desires first and I, personally, don't see anything in this episode to suggest that is the case. In previous episodes I might have seen your point but not this time around.
                        Don't strawman this argument. I argue that he was on duty and thus should not even have been on that mission. You're arguing that he was off-duty and was thus free to do whatever he chose to do... with absolutely no evidence pointing towards this.
                        Last edited by FallenAngelII; 15 November 2008, 04:49 AM.



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                          #13
                          But you have absolutely no evidence pointing to him being on duty other than your own interpretation of the conversation between the rest of the team at breakfast, I just happen to think that there is an alternative interpretation.

                          Look I'm not going to convince you so there is no point in us going around in circles, I'm merely saying that there are two possible interpretations and I personally didn't see the episode as reflecting badly on Sheppard. As I said above we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by pilgrim soul View Post
                            But you have absolutely no evidence pointing to him being on duty other than your own interpretation of the conversation between the rest of the team at breakfast, I just happen to think that there is an alternative interpretation.
                            I have plenty pointing towards him not being off-duty. Past precedence from the show where every single time someone has time off, they say it, especially if it's at least quasi-important (so people won't wonder why Rodney and Ronon randomly volunteered go with Jennifer on a mission that didn't really require assistance and Woolsey allowed them to go).

                            We have not a single character mentioning it, even when doing so would've been logical ("Where's John?" "He has a day off (explains why he isn't there). This is what he's doing").

                            So I am reading between the lines. Meanwhile, all you have is "Because it suits my argument" and "If he doesn't have the day off, then what he did would be wrong. So he must have had the day off." Because, really, what do you have to indicate he had the day off besides those two things?

                            Not to mention that he's probably (in a logical world) losing the respect of his men and fellow expedition members, even if he had the day off.

                            Person #1: "Oh, what is Lieutenant Colonel John Sheppard doing on his day off?"
                            Person #2: "Oh, he volunteered to take some scientists to the mainland to do... stuff. Also, he volunteered to stay behind despite there being absolutely no need for that!"
                            Person #3: "One of them is a hot chick, right?"
                            Person #2: "Yeah."
                            All: *snicker* *snicker* "That's John, alright. Always chasing tail."

                            It's not that he's not a monk, it's that he's so overly flirty a lot of the time. It can't be very good for morale to have a military commander that flirts around like that, especially not if he flirts with members of the expedition.

                            At least the little doctor had the decency to shoot him down flat. I bet it'll make for interesting gossip later.

                            Victim of John's chasing tail: "John Sheppard asked me if I wanted to go back with him to set up camp for the night. I was just trying to identify plants. Now I know why he volunteered to fly us and why he volunteered to stay behind and spend the night!"
                            Others: "That is such a bad come on!"
                            Victim: "I know! Yesh!"

                            If someone acted like that IRL, on or off duty, there'd be some kind of consequences at least in their relations to the rest of the expedition.



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                              #15
                              I just realized something. At the start of the episode, John attempts to flirt with the female astrobiologist with an obvious come on:
                              "I'm gonna go back to the jumper and set up for the night. Wanna join me?"

                              She was classy and gave him the cold shoulder, of course.

                              Then, at the end of the episode, Parrish indicates they're ready to go back and had been for a long time, having been waiting at the jumper for quite some time.

                              Wait... wha? So was this a mission that was going to take an entire day and require them to stay overnight (which makes absolutely no sense since it's the mainland of the same planet as Atlantis is on) or was it just a quick get-in-get-back mission?

                              Was John just making stuff up in order to flirt? Did Parrish and what's-her-name magically finish their tasks in record speed? Are the writers just hacks who can't even remember to not contradict themselves?

                              I vote for the hack-theory. They just wanted a "John Sheppard is a casanova(wannabe)"-joke in there and threw it in despite. So either they're hacks or John was just a desperate little man who made stuff up to get a quickie (since there was absolutely no need for them to stay overnight, saying he'd go back to the jumper to set up just for that and asking if she wanted to join him pretty much translates to "You, me, quickie in the jumper, now!", which would explain why she seemed disturbed by it), come to think of it.
                              Last edited by FallenAngelII; 15 November 2008, 05:10 AM.



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