Moral Debate Solved

[Jill_Ion]

There are other ways.

For instance, I have heard of people who were hunted in genocides, who decided to turn themselves over (willing self-sacrifice) to save others. Technically, since it was Balarans who were causing the problem, they should have been the ones to decide what happened to them, much like Ronon told the villagers to let Shep (et al) go at the beginning of Sateda.

The Balarans allowed the village to become divided over their presence, and they cowardly allowed everyone to make their decisions for them, with the exception of the one fella who ended up dead anyway. But he died, not out of self-sacrifice, but out of cowardice.

I would have had much more respect for the Balarans if they stood up for themselves, instead of cowering behind everyone else.

In the end, I couldn't respect even one human in this episode, they ended up - one and all - being backstabbers and cowards. Just very ugly.

das

You blame and don't respect the Belarans? The people who lost almost everyone from their homeworld, had to leave said homeworld and find a new home amongst strangers, survived a devastating illness and numerous subsequent infections, and were callously turned over to an enemy bent on killing and possibly experimenting on them? Really? Honestly?

[jenks]

hmmmm the plans of Sheppard and Jervis are similar but not e same...the main difference being Jervis was choosing the trust that the Wraith wouldn't go back on their word and kill everyone...which it is far more likely.

Maybe, but my take on it was that Shep initially objected to the plan on moral grounds rather than tactical ones.

[aboleyn24]

There are other ways.

For instance, I have heard of people who were hunted in genocides, who decided to turn themselves over (willing self-sacrifice) to save others. Technically, since it was Balarans who were causing the problem, they should have been the ones to decide what happened to them, much like Ronon told the villagers to let Shep (et al) go at the beginning of Sateda.

The Balarans allowed the village to become divided over their presence, and they cowardly allowed everyone to make their decisions for them, with the exception of the one fella who ended up dead anyway. But he died, not out of self-sacrifice, but out of cowardice.

I would have had much more respect for the Balarans if they stood up for themselves, instead of cowering behind everyone else.

In the end, I couldn't respect even one human in this episode, they ended up - one and all - being backstabbers and cowards. Just very ugly.

das

Wraith want to survive so they eat humans.

Hoffans want to survive so they create drug.

Atlantis expedition want to survive so they experiment on Michael.

Michael wants to survive so he experiments on humans with the Hoffan virus.

Wraith want to survive so they want to kill all of Michael's victims.

Balarans survivors of Hoffan drug want to continue surviving so they don't willingly turn themselves over to the Wraith to be killed for being helpless victims.

Jervis and his men want to survive (and the village) so they want to turn over innocent victims to be killed.

It looks like everyone has the same basic goal. I don't think a bunch of sick people were cowardly. I get what you are saying and to turn yourself over for a death you did nothing to deserve is indeed a noble act, I believe worthy of being called a martyr. But it seems a bit harsh to call them cowardly for not doing that. Very few people are that brave especially when feeling sick and helpless. Couldn't you say it was cowardly to not stand up for those weaker than yourself?

[Laura Dove]

I do not think that Shep crossed a moral line. This is a man who always values the needs of the many, over the few.

Except when the few are his friends. Example: As soon as Teyla had to take a personal risk in "The Queen", he wanted to give up the plan of convincing Todd's alliance to use Keller's retrovirus.

[prion]

...and thus Sheppard is a hypocrite.

In what respect? He did what a soldier would do; make a difficult decision that did sacrifice innocent lives. You *can't* have a war without killing innocent people, because war (and yes, the humans are at war with the Wraith) is not neat and tidy and black & white. There was that good original Trek episode where the people had reduced war down to a neat little lottery in which if your number came up, you were painlessly distintegrated. It was awful, really, and Kirk then kickstarted a nasty bloody *real* war (which of course goes against the Prime Directive), but the point is, war is hell, people die.

Decisions like this are made all the time in war, any war. They're not nice, they're awful, but people are human and flawed and make them.

[jenks]

In what respect? He did what a soldier would do; make a difficult decision that did sacrifice innocent lives. You *can't* have a war without killing innocent people, because war (and yes, the humans are at war with the Wraith) is not neat and tidy and black & white. There was that good original Trek episode where the people had reduced war down to a neat little lottery in which if your number came up, you were painlessly distintegrated. It was awful, really, and Kirk then kickstarted a nasty bloody *real* war (which of course goes against the Prime Directive), but the point is, war is hell, people die.

Decisions like this are made all the time in war, any war. They're not nice, they're awful, but people are human and flawed and make them.

Read the thread.

[Jill_Ion]

Except when the few are his friends. Example: As soon as Teyla had to take a personal risk in "The Queen", he wanted to give up the plan of convincing Todd's alliance to use Keller's retrovirus.

OK, so he isn't perfect (despite my many, many feelings to the contrary ). We value that and those we love. I don't know anyone who would not go further for someone they know and love rather than a stranger. So, IMHO, Shep in The Queen and Outsiders was in character.