'Enemy At the Gate' (520) General Discussion

[Flyboy]

I think this was just one of several weak points in this episode. It really did strain credibility that the chair was moved and not in some way operational after the move, and that no one was available to work the chair. But it was but one flaw of many. There seems to have been no improvement in the 302 after almost a decade, and what other technology has stood still over that period of time, and the lack of 302s was also not believable. Reasonably there should be hundreds if not thousands of the darn things by now available, and some of them likely based further out in the system. And we have seen them in the past travel halfway across a system, so why all the sudden was their a range limit when they barely had to get out of the atmosphere! Lots of very maddening stuff going on in this episode!

Do you have any idea how many years, nay decades, a jet fighter or bomber will stay operational for? Hell, the Harrier (British fast jet) was around in the 60's and is only just coming up to it's retirement age. It doesn't surprise me that 302s are still operating in the exact form now as they were seven years ago.

[Flyboy]

Why didn't Sheppard eject when he was hit by the dart? He had plenty of time. No pilot would have stayed with their plane that long, he was literally 1 or 2 metres above the ground when he regained control, it seemed very unrealistic to me.

Sheppard's aircraft was in a spin (actual aviation term there folks!). These can indeed be deadly, but they're also possible to get out of, depending on the aircraft. Certain aircraft can escape from a spin much more easily than others. Obviously from what happened, the 302 is possible to recover from a spin, and as long as Sheppard remembered his training, there was no reason he couldn't achieve straight and level flight again - which he did.

What we actually see here is Sheppard recovering from the spin quite early on, the actual damage caused by the Dart not appearing to be severe enough to compromise flight long term, and then Sheppard finding himself in a very fast dive which he had to attempt to pull out of. He didn't have to fix the aircraft at all.

[kenny4657]

Since Atlantis already know the wormhole leads directly into the hive, why didn't they send a nuke into it? even if they do not have nukes, they at least have Naquadah generators they can use to overload.

[airrick]

I cant remember which episode it was on SG1 but didnt they use some tech in an alternate universe to move Earth out of phase?

Does this tech exist in the current reality and if so why wasnt it an option this time?

Wouldnt one ZPM be enough to power that device.. they used normal electricity in the AU to power the device iirc..

just curious about this one

[Flyboy]

I cant remember which episode it was on SG1 but didnt they use some tech in an alternate universe to move Earth out of phase?

Does this tech exist in the current reality and if so why wasnt it an option this time?

Wouldnt one ZPM be enough to power that device.. they used normal electricity in the AU to power the device iirc..

just curious about this one

That would be 'The Road Not Taken' - and as it was Carter that perfected the defence, I'm quite surprised that she hasn't persued it in this reality.

[JohnDuh]

So they have a wormhole going straight to a wraith ship - nuke it!
Send puddlejumpers filled with BOOM through...

No no. Lets just close it and sigh. (along with the audience *g*)

[Flyboy]

So they have a wormhole going straight to a wraith ship - nuke it!
Send puddlejumpers filled with BOOM through...

No no. Lets just close it and sigh. (along with the audience *g*)

Nukes were my immediate thought. But that doesn't do much for drama now does it.

Puddlejumpers were my second thought. Send a small squadron of PJ's through the gate, blast the hell out of the hive ship from the inside, and then if needs be, about face and fial up the gate again.

[prion]

The entire series is science fiction, I could name off a ton of things over the expanse of 5 years that seemed fake.. LOL I have to disagree with you on this part. To me it seems that as fans we want to have that last moment in time frozen for us to remember and enjoy looking @.. to me having her there is like.. ugh.. she wasnt part of why I watched the show.. she had less screen time than random 1 shot villains.. she just didnt NEED to be there.. I respectfully disagree..

More fiction than science Um, you're talking about Banks on the balcony? Well, guess it's obvious who works! Chuck is actually manning the communications, Zelenka is doing all the work in back! But I'm not sure why she was out there either...

I think this was just one of several weak points in this episode. It really did strain credibility that the chair was moved and not in some way operational after the move, and that no one was available to work the chair. But it was but one flaw of many. There seems to have been no improvement in the 302 after almost a decade, and what other technology has stood still over that period of time, and the lack of 302s was also not believable. Reasonably there should be hundreds if not thousands of the darn things by now available, and some of them likely based further out in the system. And we have seen them in the past travel halfway across a system, so why all the sudden was their a range limit when they barely had to get out of the atmosphere! Lots of very maddening stuff going on in this episode!

I'm assuming the chair was operational because they ran this realllllyyyy loooonnngggg wire all the way back to the Antarctic to plug into the facility that housed all the drones. I mean, really, moving the chair itself. Gah, reminds me of when a company I worked for got sold out, in part, and they wanted to take the Wang terminals with them down the street. I told them only if they had a long wire as the contract stipulated we kept the mainframe for it. Silly, really, in real life and on the show. Digging up the drone facility and the chair would do a lot more harm to the environment than leaving it there!

[prion]

I'm pretty sure that we can consider the other tech at Area 51 to be safe. If you take into consideration that the chair would need to be reconnected to the outpost in the antarctic, it would make sense that the chair would be moved and prepped for transportation. I wouldn't be surprised if the chair were moved to the ground-level and was being packed up for transit back to the fortress when the Wraith came and blew it up with their kamikaze run.

As far as it being so easy for the wraith to get through, you have to keep in mind that the 302s were severely outnumbered, and if you have a disadvantage in a dogfight while you've got other pilots deliberately going on kamikaze runs trying to take out Area 51, you're facing incredibly high odds that you're going to be able to stop them.

with that smoldering tower of smoke? Hmm, also it makes no sense to keep all your eggs in one basket. and if Darts were doing suicide runs on Area 51, well, wow, you've got a nice hole in the ground, plus wow, how many scientists and other personnel were killed?

[Jill_Ion]

My bet is that they moved as much as possible from there. If they were in violation of the NPT then that would include removing any weapons from there as well. Thus, the drones should have been at Area 51 as well. But I could be mistaken.

I don't know where the drones were (at least I'm not saying! ), but I theorize the Chair was functional at Area 51.

Heck, with all of this talk, I'm really confused and have no idea anymore!

AAAAAAGH!

OK, guess it's time to go back and watch EatG again!

[ddc]

And a question about the episode. Why wouldn't they have had O'Niell on the Earth chair? I understand from a wanting to get Shep to Earth perspective, but not a storyline one.

He's head of Homeworld Security, his place is in DC advising the President and coordinating Earth's response.

And as to why Sheppard not someone else with the ATA gene, he's the one who has actual combat experience using the chair. More of a stretch as to how Carson's the next best person to fly the City, but IMO it could be that he has the gene naturally and has finally learned to control the Ancient tech. Michael may even have had him work with salvaged Ancient tech.

But either way, I wonder why did the TPTB chose to have Atlantis land on San Francisco, hidden meaning? Personally I love it there, so liberal and once you been there, it's true - you do leave your heart in SF, like that Tony Bennett's song, "I Left My Heart in San Francisco".

Am I the only one who thought of Star Trek: The Voyage Home (the one with the whales)? Plus it's one place on the Pacific Coast that's immediately recognized because of the Golden Gate Bridge.

As for how it ended up just outside San Francisco when they landed mid-Pacific, I doubt they have any way to stop once they land, just have to wait until they loose momentum and hope they don't crash ashore before they come to a stop.

My opinion on a couple of other things that have been mentioned:

Davis - If they were following military rules he would have had to have been promoted or retire by now (up or out). Lorne too.

Chair and Area 51 - The chair and dromes, together the weapons that violated the treaty, may still be intact but are currently inaccessible. I don't think all of Area 51 is destroyed, just the area where the chair is. Presumaby a separate building away from the main complex. If you look at a map of Nevada, Nellis AFB, where Area 51 supposedly is, covers quite a large area. The underground shipyards are in a flat area in the desert (Prometheus, SG-1 Season 6) so The Hammond should be OK.

[maxbo]

Just as with Vegas, I don't quite know how to rate this episode. It was so rushed and filled with so many WTF! moments that it's still hard for me to understand why these writers wasted so much of Season 5 on lackluster, stand alone episodes when they could have used that time to build up to this episode.

Several times while watching this episode (and Vegas), I found myself thinking that if I hadn't seen Season 5, then I would have based my confusion on not having been caught up. Unfortunately, it's too bad that there wasn't anything to be caught up on because much of the earlier episodes this season had very little to do with the last two. What I don't understand is why would they write a season where the last two episodes are mostly disconnected from the previous 18?

Not knowing that there wouldn't be a season 6 is no excuse for the poor planning that led up to this episode and as a result, I'm more concerned than ever about the movie - if there is a movie, that is.

[leiasky]

He's head of Homeworld Security, his place is in DC advising the President and coordinating Earth's response.

Then why was Landry seemingly doing that instead? It didn't make any sense. One of the things that really threw me out of the episode as far as believability.

Chair and Area 51 - The chair and dromes, together the weapons that violated the treaty, may still be intact but are currently inaccessible. I don't think all of Area 51 is destroyed, just the area where the chair is. Presumaby a separate building away from the main complex. If you look at a map of Nevada, Nellis AFB, where Area 51 supposedly is, covers quite a large area. The underground shipyards are in a flat area in the desert (Prometheus, SG-1 Season 6) so The Hammond should be OK.

I'd like to think the chair is made up of a similar element as the gate and can't easily be destroyed. But, this was another section of the episode that wasn't too believable for me.

And - if the chair was functional at Area 51, (which I have a hard time believing) why, exactly would those all pissed off about its location in Antarctia violating the treaty allow the US to retain complete control over such a weapon? Nope, not buying it. The chair being moved didn't make sense.

[prion]

He's head of Homeworld Security, his place is in DC advising the President and coordinating Earth's response.

And as to why Sheppard not someone else with the ATA gene, he's the one who has actual combat experience using the chair. More of a stretch as to how Carson's the next best person to fly the City, but IMO it could be that he has the gene naturally and has finally learned to control the Ancient tech. Michael may even have had him work with salvaged Ancient tech.

THey wanted SHep because 1) it's in the script, and 2) yes, he's got a very powerful nature gene plus lots of experience in fending off the wraith while using the chair.

Am I the only one who thought of Star Trek: The Voyage Home (the one with the whales)? Plus it's one place on the Pacific Coast that's immediately recognized because of the Golden Gate Bridge.

Oh yes. First thing that popped into my mind.

As for how it ended up just outside San Francisco when they landed mid-Pacific, I doubt they have any way to stop once they land, just have to wait until they loose momentum and hope they don't crash ashore before they come to a stop.

Where they landed is a quibble, as it was projected coordinates, and it's not like Carson is an expert on landing. I mean, has he flown the city before? I honestly can't recall. Don't think so.

My opinion on a couple of other things that have been mentioned:

Davis - If they were following military rules he would have had to have been promoted or retire by now (up or out). Lorne too.

Yeah, you'd think they'd be promoted, so obviously they're screwing up somewehre to keep at that rank, but also have blackmail material so they don't get booted out and lose their military pension

Chair and Area 51 - The chair and dromes, together the weapons that violated the treaty, may still be intact but are currently inaccessible. I don't think all of Area 51 is destroyed, just the area where the chair is. Presumaby a separate building away from the main complex. If you look at a map of Nevada, Nellis AFB, where Area 51 supposedly is, covers quite a large area. The underground shipyards are in a flat area in the desert (Prometheus, SG-1 Season 6) so The Hammond should be OK.

Gads, they do put all their eggs in one basket, don't they? tsk! If they'd had any brains, they would ahve put the chair at the bottom of a nice big missile silo complex, not in a building. You know, nobody would look in a cornfield in Nebraska for an alien artifact

[SciFiSGFan]

it was a nice wrap up.
thank goodness lorne survived

shep lives for suicide runs and i think the only eye rolling point was 'we cloaked the city before we got too close' to the golden gate bridge....ok, cloaked the city, but a cloak doesn't mean that you don't displace water, TONS and TONS of water that had to go somewhere, and this close to shore, likely swamped a few ships

but we all know that science ain't their strong point, so i'll give it to them

I agree -- THANK GOODNESS Lorne survived. I was in shock for a few minutes when I thought they killed Ronon off.

Not only should the city of displaced a lot of H2O, but I would of thought there would of been a tad bit of air displacement along with it... one heck of a breeze across the Golden Gate. Would of made ya think you were on the Mackinac in winter!!