How did 'Todd' know...

[Major_Griff]

As far as we know, Todd has had no contact with Michael so how did he know that atlantis wasn't destroyed during the Siege? Also, how did he know about our alliance with the hive in Allies? And how did he know about the cities cloak? These are all things that no Wraith is aware of except Michael, and he is too busy with his superbugs to try and ally himself with other Wraith. So how did Todd know?

[2ndgenerationalteran]

is todd the name of our new prisoner wraith?

well i guess him and michael are both seemingly outcasted wraith they may have crossed paths before. plus the news that atlantis is still out there isnt a complete secret, ronan's wraith worshiper friends new that atlantis still was out there, all 'todd' did was set a trap that they he knew we would walk into.

[Nathan Reynolds]

Like mentioned above ronin's friends knew that atlantis was around somewhere... so maybe news of atlantis existence is still out there if you know where to look
As far as the shields, didnt atlantis had shields in the time of the ancients, if Todd happend the be one of those really old Wraith or knew one of the old bones we could know about the city shield... I think

[FallenAngelII]

Lucky guess? Or he guessed they were hiding out on a random planet somewhere? He never did say that Atlantis (the city) was still around, did he?

[Major_Griff]

okay so he could have heard about atlantis like Ronon's friends or just thought they were hiding out somewhere, but it still doesn't answer how he knew about the cloak and how he knew about the Alliance with the hive from Allies.

[Avenger]

No doubt that word gets around. After all, there are Atlantis teams going through the gate all the time and they don't really try to hide the fact that they are the people who were occupying Atlantis.

[ciannwn]

Also, how did he know about our alliance with the hive in Allies?

Michael was picked up by Wraith at the end of 'Misbegotten'. He must have told them about the events of 'Allies'. After all, they'd want to know how and why this odd looking Wraith came to be stranded on the planet.

Todd was picked up by Wraith at the end of 'Common Ground'. He could have heard about the events of 'Allies' from Wraith who'd learned of them via Michael.

[FallenAngelII]

No doubt that word gets around. After all, there are Atlantis teams going through the gate all the time and they don't really try to hide the fact that they are the people who were occupying Atlantis.

They've been peddling the story that they all evacuated and left the city to blow up empty. They are merely the survivors now operation out of an Alpha Site.

Michael was picked up by Wraith at the end of 'Misbegotten'. He must have told them about the events of 'Allies'. After all, they'd want to know how and why this odd looking Wraith came to be stranded on the planet.

Todd was picked up by Wraith at the end of 'Common Ground'. He could have heard about the events of 'Allies' from Wraith who'd learned of them via Michael.

1) No he didn't. If he did, he'd be dead. That Hive exploded, remember? Much like princess Bunhead in Thumb Wars, he "escaped... somehow".
2) No, Michael did not tell them about the events of "Allies". Michael is, after all, honourable (in his own way). He promised not to tell, so he's not. After all, if he did tell, Atlantis would be gone for real since the Wraith would have had 10 or so months between when he first escaped the "Misbegotten" genocide and Atlantis changed locations.
3) And none of them decided to attack Atlantis why?

[ciannwn]

1) No he didn't. If he did, he'd be dead. That Hive exploded, remember?

From Vengeance -

MICHAEL: Do you not recall our last encounter? How you left me to die on that desolate planet? The hive that finally rescued me -- they could tell something was different. They sensed the human in me. To them, I was unclean. I barely escaped that hive with my life.

This clearly states that he was picked up by Wraith. I also checked the 'Misbegotten' transcript.

Sheppard and his team are in the captured hive ship when they bombard the planet. The Wraith arrive and start firing on the captured hive. There are several instances where we're told that the captured hive couldn't survive combat.

McKAY:.... Look, we're using up a lot of our power reserves to maintain this speed. We're not gonna have a lot left over to fight with.

and

SHEPPARD: How're you doing with the weapons?

McKAY: We couldn't hit the side of a barn.

SHEPPARD: But hive ships are a hundred times bigger ...

McKAY (interrupting): A giant, flying barn! We couldn't hit that.

and

SHEPPARD: ....The other hive ship's gonna be here any minute and we won't survive a battle. It's my call.

The rescue hive arrives.

McKAY: It's the other hive! We're taking multiple hits!

and

(The Bridge shakes violently again.)

McKAY: Engines are offline! We're venting atmosphere! Power's about to fail.

(As the planetary bombardment continues, the enemy hive draws alongside our hive, inundating it with weapons fire. Explosions go off all over the hull.)

When the Daedalus arrives there's wreckage from a hive ship and Sheppard and his team are in the Puddle Jumper.

SHEPPARD: You got here in good time, Colonel. We were looking at a long ride home.

It comes across to me that it was the captured hive ship which blew up, not the one that arrived in response to Michael's telepathic distress call.

No, Michael did not tell them about the events of "Allies". Michael is, after all, honourable (in his own way). He promised not to tell, so he's not.

I'm not sure how much loyalty Michael would be feeling towards the expedition after the events in Misbegotten. He helps them in 'No Man's Land' and is then given the RV again and put on the planet with the other humanised Wraith. Sheppard and co first try to blow him and the other prisoners up with a nuclear bomb.

PLANET. CAVE. A panel on the side of a nuclear bomb is flashing and beeping. Michael is squatting beside it.

MICHAEL: Now you see what they really think of us.

(Two other Wraith are squatting on the other side of the bomb.)

WRAITH: I don't understand.

(Michael stands up.)

MICHAEL: The bomb is receiving a detonation signal. If I hadn't deactivated it, we'd all be dead.

Sheppard and co then fire on the camp in attempt to kill Michael and the other Wraith.

When we meet him again in 'Vengeance' he doesn't sound as if he'd care about any promises he gave the expedition in the past. He's captured Teyla and intends to feed her to an Iratus bug.

MICHAEL: Your friends are coming for you.

MICHAEL (walking over to Teyla): They’ll meet the same fate as you, one by one.

When Teyla pleads with him he says -

MICHAEL: After what you did to me -- twice -- how could you expect anything less?

MICHAEL: Your experiment failed. You decided to kill us.

After all, if he did tell, Atlantis would be gone for real since the Wraith would have had 10 or so months between when he first escaped the "Misbegotten" genocide and Atlantis changed locations.

Michael isn't 100% Wraithlike now so, in order to explain this, he could have given his own, version of the Allies events. As the camp had been blown up he could have said that all the RV experiments had taken place in a research facility on this planet etc.

Why might he have kept the location of Atlantis a secret? Maybe he was picked up by a weaker Wraith faction so he held onto the information in hope that he could worm his way into a stronger faction later on. He never got to use it, though, because all Wraith rejected him for his human taint. I'm wondering what that was and if something in 'No Man's Land' gives a clue.

MICHAEL: You should have told me. (The Queen looks at him enquiringly.) That we were going to betray the Atlanteans.

HIVE QUEEN: Are you feeling sympathy for them?

MICHAEL: No. But I don't understand why I wasn't told. I told you of their plan because I believed it was a viable way ...

HIVE QUEEN (interrupting): You're only alive because you still may prove to be useful. But I fear, Michael, that the lingering stench of what they have transformed you into will never fade.

Wraith fight each other and even feed on each other in an emergency. They could all draw the line at humanising hivefulls of Wraith, though, and using them as a food source. If Michael tried to propose this as a viable way again, his new hive could have turned against him and spread the word to others.

There could be another reason why Michael didn't reveal the location of Atlantis. It was convenient for the plot and we viewers aren't supposed to wonder about things like that.

[FallenAngelII]

MICHAEL: Do you not recall our last encounter? How you left me to die on that desolate planet? The hive that finally rescued me -- they could tell something was different. They sensed the human in me. To them, I was unclean. I barely escaped that hive with my life.

I.e., not the same hive as the one we saw blow up. In fact, it took quite a while for him to get rescued! He was picked up by the Wraith, yes. But he was not picked up by the Wraith "at the end of 'Misbegotten'", which was what I was arguing against.

However, I could be remembering things wrong and maybe that ship didn't blow up.

And then comes to problem with Michael telling other Wraith Atlantis still exists. If a single Hive knew it was still around, the information would be spread through the Wraith Intelligence Network like fire and 10-20 hives would be raining down on Atlantis within a few weeks.

Of course he didn't tell anyone. What would it matter if the Hive that picked him up was weak or whatever? The Wraith are still a race with a deep hatred for the Atlantis expedition since they keep foiling them and reducing their numbers. If they got whiff of Atlantis still being around, they wouldn't even need to know about the retrovirus to have an incentive to blow it into smithereens.

No, Michael did not tell anyone. Otherwise, there'd be no show left to watch.

[ciannwn]

However, I could be remembering things wrong and maybe that ship didn't blow up.

The script transcript gives me the definite impression that it was the captured hive ship that blew up. After all, where is that captured hive ship now? Logically the Daedalus would have scanned the planet for life signs once Sheppard and co were aboard. If Michael was still down there he'd have been found unless he went into hibernation because Wraith can't be detected then.

And then comes to problem with Michael telling other Wraith Atlantis still exists. If a single Hive knew it was still around, the information would be spread through the Wraith Intelligence Network like fire and 10-20 hives would be raining down on Atlantis within a few weeks.

Sateda is two stories after Misbegotten. Ronon is handed over to the Wraith and it must have been common knowledge by then that he'd joined the Atlantis humans. The Satedan hive leader is killed by a drone fired from a Puddle Jumper and the hive ship fires on the Jumper as they all try to escape.

As they run towards the Jumper, a blast comes out of the sky from the hive ship and impacts the ground behind them.

and

(The Jumper heads up into the sky as blasts rain down all around it.)


SPACE. Safely out of range of the hive, Rodney and Carson get out of their seats, open the bulkhead doors and hurry into the rear of the Jumper.

There were obviously Wraith still on this hive because somebody had to be operating the weapons. There was no indication that Sheppard and co blew it up with the Puddle Jumper weapons so we have to assume that these Wraith got away. It wouldn't take much deduction on the Wraith's part to reach the conclusion that Atlantis humans were still around. After all, how many Pegasus galaxy humans use Puddle Jumpers and would want to rescue Ronon?

'Irresistable' is the story immediately after 'Misbegotten' and Sheppard and his team are visiting another planet. Sateda starts out with Sheppard and co visiting a planet and a comment by Rodney suggests why they'd gone there.

McKAY: I also see nothing we might be interested in trading for.

In 'Phantoms' we learn that other teams have been visiting planets in the Pegasus galaxy as well.

SHEPPARD: Elizabeth, we may have a situation. Major Leonard’s team -- they’re late returning from M1B-129.

Finally, in 'Irresponsible' we learn that Sheppard and his team meet up with Lucius on yet another planet.

The 'Common Ground' Wraith might have invented a story to explain how he'd happened to turn up after many years without any aid from Sheppard but Atlantis expedition members (and at least one Puddle Jumper) would have been seen all over the place. It would have been a miracle if the news didn't get round to one or more Wraith worshippers fairly quickly.

In 'Reunion', Tyre says (about Ronon's expedition friends) -

I won’t doubt they’re good people; they helped you out when you needed it, and from what I hear, they’ve done more to hurt the Wraith than anyone.

Ronon doesn't find this comment odd. As 'Reunion' takes place soon after 'Adrift' and 'Lifeline' it suggests that news about the Atlantis personnel being alive was likely known before the city changed location.

No, Michael did not tell anyone. Otherwise, there'd be no show left to watch.

I think people are puzzled by the following -

CARTER: I understand you're proposing that we work together on a joint venture.

WRAITH: That is correct.

CARTER: Last time we went down this road, things didn't exactly work out the way we'd hoped.

WRAITH: You were betrayed. Believe me, I understand your reluctance.

This really does give the impression that the reference is to the events in Allies and that the betrayal was known to the Wraith. The only ways they could have known were if (a) Michael gave his own version of the story to explain how he'd become different. MICHAEL: The hive that finally rescued me -- they could tell something was different. They sensed the human in me. Unless turning a bit human is a common occurrence amongst Wraith the others would have wanted to know what happened. Maybe Michael wasn't the only survivor (if he escaped the final planetary bombardment some of the others could have as well) so Wraith might have learned something from them. (b) Sheppard told the fellow captive Wraith about it sometime during the events of 'Common Ground' but we didn't get this scene on TV. This is highly unlikely, though, because they were too busy with trying to survive and escape to swap life histories.

The final possibility is that the Wraith just made a lucky guess as to why things didn't work out as hoped.

We're left with a lot of questions.

1: Why didn't Michael tell Wraith about Atlantis after the way he'd been treated? After all, he was prepared to feed Sheppard's team to Iratus bugs so it shows he didn't love them very much.

2: Why wasn't Michael subjected to a Wraith mind probe to extract information from him? Did he escape before this could happen?

3: Why didn't the Wraith suspect that Atlantis was still around, especially after Sateda? Did they think the expedition personnel had evacuated the city (with Puddle Jumpers) before it blew up?

[Wraith_Boy]

okay so he could have heard about atlantis like Ronon's friends or just thought they were hiding out somewhere, but it still doesn't answer how he knew about the cloak and how he knew about the Alliance with the hive from Allies.

The Alliance could have easily been explained. If you remember a Hive picked up Michael & his buds from the planet in 'Misbegotten'. Any fo those Wraith could have spilled the beans, Todd could have been aboard & found out first hand. It may have been a Hive that was loyal to him & they told him if he wasn't there in person.

If the Wraith know Atlantis still exists, then they obviously knew a rouse was in place after the nuke exploded. It didn't show up on their sensors, not did it fly past them. So it would be logical given the Lanteans ability to cloak things that this is what they done. It's there one minute & gone the next. No sign of it taking off or going under the water etc on their sensors. So logic would dictate that they cloaked it.

It would have been far easier if they included a brief bit of dialogue to sort it out, however there is a few things in the past they've done the same on. Let's just say fine details isn't amongst their strong points!

[FallenAngelII]

So it all boils down to a giant plothole.

Scenario A:
The Wraith knew (somehow). And they were too stupid or busy to attack Atlantis, the one group of people who has, in three years, taken down, what, 12-15 of their hives?

Scenario B:
They didn't know. But there are lots of hints that they knew.

Either way, it's stupid.

[rarocks24]

So it all boils down to a giant plothole.

Scenario A:
The Wraith knew (somehow). And they were too stupid or busy to attack Atlantis, the one group of people who has, in three years, taken down, what, 12-15 of their hives?

Scenario B:
They didn't know. But there are lots of hints that they knew.

Either way, it's stupid.

There's actually another Scenario.

Scenario C: The Wraith don't buy it this time. Atlantis really does destroy itself.

[garhkal]

And then comes to problem with Michael telling other Wraith Atlantis still exists. If a single Hive knew it was still around, the information would be spread through the Wraith Intelligence Network like fire and 10-20 hives would be raining down on Atlantis within a few weeks.

The 2 hives from Allies knew of atlantis's survival, but did not share the info with other wraith.. So why would that one which picked up michael share it?