'The Last Man' (420) General Discussion

[cabouse18]

Of course...and that something is? Could you point me to the part where they explain that?

They don't....there is a shock, right?

[Shan Bruce Lee]

I still think the whole thing about the sun is a blatent lie from McKay's ego to hide the fact that he probably did something to screw up again and had to figure out a way to fix his own mistakes

[Mitchell82]

I think it was an okay ending, but really not one of my favorites for Atlantis.

I found it difficult to get into the flashbacks because, in the back of my mind, I knew that none of these things will really happen (the deaths anyway), so there was little emotional commitment to them on my part. As soon as we started the first flashback, I knew what most of the episode was going to be, and thus was slightly bored.

I see your point but even so I still found them emotional. Just because they were glimpses at what would happen should the same event happen didn't take the emotion away.

I did enjoy Carter's kamikaze attack that destroyed three Wraith ships. It was cool and dramatic. But again, I knew it wasn't gonna happen, so there was always a small feeling of disconnection.

It was very cool going out with a bang and honor.

Ronon fighting alongside Todd. It felt odd. I'm unsure how I feel about it, really. But again, not happening, so whatever..?

That was a sweet scene defiantly unexpected but sweet just the same. I really love Todd.

I still don't completely understand how Sheppard survived. They went through the trouble of explaining this elaborate set of obstacles about why he couldn't just step into the freezer and go to sleep. And then he steps into the freezer and goes to sleep. I feel like I missed something. I guess there could be something I missed, but it went by so fast for me that it honestly felt like we skipped a step.

First they had to get there and then had to modify the plan to protect him when he gets out. Made sense to me.

The whole walking-through-the-storm sequence felt contrived, just so we could have some visual cake and jeopardy ice cream.

What was wrong with that?

The cliffhanger just... No.

It just felt so tacked on. Like it was an afterthought. Like they just felt like they needed something to make the audience go "ZOMG, I HAVE TO WAIT 2392934782 MORE MONTHS TO SEE THE END!"

The problem is, once again, it didn't feel like a genuine scene. We all know they're not dead, and that's the only thing we really have in the cliffhanger to think about. "Are they dead?" Which they aren't.

Of course we know or hope they arent dead but my mouth dropped open and I said OMG when it happened! It was a very dramatic cliffhanger.

I found many beats of the episode entertaining, but honestly, this doesn't feel like the finale to anything. It's easily my least favorite Atlantis finale out of all four seasons. And I think they're usually very good.

Here's hoping S5's premiere makes up for it.

Sure shows how very varied peoples views are. This is likely my new fav finale.

[Mitchell82]

Of course...and that something is? Could you point me to the part where they explain that?

They don't but my point is it's not a plot hole. Just because they don't hold your hand and say "ooo the wraithe sent a nuclear bomb into the sun" or something doesn't make a plot hole.

[cabouse18]

They don't but my point is it's not a plot hole. Just because they don't hold your hand and say "ooo the wraithe sent a nuclear bomb into the sun" or something doesn't make a plot hole.

Oh it is definately not a plot hole...while I used sarcasm below that they didn't tell us by no means is it a plot hole. Those things occur naturally and it is entirely possible that it was time for it to occur on the planet. They don't have to explain everything to us....I think as fans we sometimes look TOO deep into everything that is or isn't told to us. I think Rodney pretty much explained it when it said the sun was dying.

[VMDShelley]

Look I'm new here, but you people seem to have missed some stuff. like how rodney was working on a way to get john back, and woolsey told him to stop. he gave up, yes, and then when jennifer died he had no reason not to try. and why would ronan kill todd on sight? i know he hates wraith but he knew they were after the same thing. and the baby? why spend time on what mckay had no way of knowing? the ioa would of definately abondond atlantis. sam was only doing what she thought was right, and that ramming scene was awesome and totally in character. it was reminisant of Bra'tac durning the battle for chulak.

this ending was totally awesome

one other point, did anyone notice that they got to where teyla would have the baby too soon and now that it's blown up where will micheal take her?

[Vapor]

I think my problem with the storm thing was that they didn't actually show what Shep did. He went walking out, was having difficulty, then we cut to him dropping through the door.

I guess I just wanted to see him do whatever he was supposed to do.

[Mitchell82]

Oh it is definately not a plot hole...while I used sarcasm below that they didn't tell us by no means is it a plot hole. Those things occur naturally and it is entirely possible that it was time for it to occur on the planet. They don't have to explain everything to us....I think as fans we sometimes look TOO deep into everything that is or isn't told to us. I think Rodney pretty much explained it when it said the sun was dying.

Agreed.

[Mitchell82]

I think my problem with the storm thing was that they didn't actually show what Shep did. He went walking out, was having difficulty, then we cut to him dropping through the door.

I guess I just wanted to see him do whatever he was supposed to do.

He was just supposed to walk from point a to point b.

[cabouse18]

I think my problem with the storm thing was that they didn't actually show what Shep did. He went walking out, was having difficulty, then we cut to him dropping through the door.

I guess I just wanted to see him do whatever he was supposed to do.

Why?

We know he had to walk through a sand storm and how dangerous that is and where he was going to....I much preferred the flashback we got instead of seeing him struggle through blowing sand. The ep ran over anyway, so if it was shot (which I doubt it was) they probably had to cut it out.

[Integrabyte]

They don't but my point is it's not a plot hole. Just because they don't hold your hand and say "ooo the wraithe sent a nuclear bomb into the sun" or something doesn't make a plot hole.

According to the plothole definition, it is. What happened to the crystal? Why did we have all that mumbo jumbo in Atlantis and stupid log checks to see if Sheppard is telling the truth. Why didn't they check out the crystal? It had more than enough information to support Sheppard's story.

[Mitchell82]

Look I'm new here, but you people seem to have missed some stuff. like how rodney was working on a way to get john back, and woolsey told him to stop. he gave up, yes, and then when jennifer died he had no reason not to try.

Ok and? Not sure what your point is.

and why would ronan kill todd on sight? i know he hates wraith but he knew they were after the same thing.

Um did we see the same show because he didn't they died together by destroying the facility.

and the baby? why spend time on what mckay had no way of knowing?

How wouldn't he? He was with the team that found her mutilated body and he knew she was pregnant.

the ioa would of definately abondond atlantis.

Not right away but they obviously did.

sam was only doing what she thought was right, and that ramming scene was awesome and totally in character. it was reminisant of Bra'tac durning the battle for chulak.


this ending was totally awesome

Agreed.

one other point, did anyone notice that they got to where teyla would have the baby too soon and now that it's blown up where will micheal take her?

Obviously plans have changed now.

[Mitchell82]

According to the plothole definition, it is. What happened to the crystal? Why did we have all that mumbo jumbo in Atlantis and stupid log checks to see if Sheppard is telling the truth. Why didn't they check out the crystal? It had more than enough information to support Sheppard's story.

Because the crystal simply wasn't proof enough. They have seen way too many things that cause them to be cautious.

[cabouse18]

According to the plothole definition, it is. What happened to the crystal? Why did we have all that mumbo jumbo in Atlantis and stupid log checks to see if Sheppard is telling the truth. Why didn't they check out the crystal? It had more than enough information to support Sheppard's story.

We're nitpicking now.....they probably did look at the crystal but didn't show it us b/c how else would he *know* where to tell them to dial the gate to search for Teyla??

If they showed us every little thing we are picking on the ep would have run about an hour and a half...too much time for such little things. I'll admit there are times things are left out but in the case of this ep last night....it wasn't the case. You have to let yourself infer a certain amount of things and the things we are nitpicking are those things which can be inferred.

[Killdeer]

Well, I was completely and totally spoiled for this episode, and I wasn't sure how much I was going to like it based on people's reactions. But I really did enjoy it, much more than I thought I would.

There were a few things - the issue that Chensuu brought up about Rodney changing the timeline for Jennifer. That does kind of bug me when I think too much about it, that Rodney wasn't trying to figure out a way to rescue Sheppard before all this happened. And that they just were going on with their lives back on earth while knowing Sheppard was trapped in the future? Yeah, that's disturbing when I think too much about it.

Also, it seemed weird that we had absolutely no mention of Carson - it seems like just a line or two when Shep was coming up to the stasis chamber would have helped here. What happened to Carson?

And what is the deal with this baby? What is it about him that is so important to Michael? It can't be just that he's the child of two Athosians with the gift. I need more information.

While Carter going off fighting Michael on the ship made for some fantastic scenes, there was still this kind of nagging thing in the back of my mind that it just seemed odd for her to leave her command to Lorne like that and go off to battle. It didn't detract from her final sacrifice, and it was good to see her in command of the ship, but....it was just another one of those little things that bug me if I think about it too much. It's things like that though that make me a little relieved that (s5 spoilers)

Spoiler:

Sam won't be commander of Atlantis next year - the writers are far too tempted to keep sending her out into the action. I highly doubt they'll be similarly tempted with Woolsey. I think Sam is better as a ship or field commander anyway, and maybe when we see her again in S5, she'll have a completed version of the Phoenix to command.

And last quibble, I promise - I didn't buy that Sam was so skeptical of John's story after all her experiences with time travel. It would have worked better if they'd simply had her say "I believe you John, but we still have to go through the protocol of checking". After all, with all Sam's been through, she's the last person who should be doubting him.

Anyway - to the good stuff, and there was a lot of it.

JF and DH both put in amazing performances. I'm going to have to watch this again just for them.

I LOVED that Ronon went out and formed his own army! I can totally see him doing that, and he makes a fantastic leader. And the Butch and Sundance ending with Todd was sad, but very very well done.

I've already talked about Carter, but that was also a great sequence, working to defend Pegasus even over the IOA's objections, and at the end saving her crew and taking out the hive ships.

My opinion on Jennifer Keller varies widely from episode to episode, but I did like her here, and I thought the romance between her and Rodney was sweet and believable. (Wow, Stargate finally managed to come up with a ship that I could support - that alone is a shock.) I've already noted that there is kind of a problem here, if I think about it too much, but overlooking that, their relationship and Rodney's heartbreak and subsequent obsession really worked for me. And I took it more as though it was just a buildup of losing everyone that pushed Rodney into his obsession, not necessarily Jennifer's death by itself. The only thing was, as I noted before, I did kind of have a problem with him not working on rescuing Shep before all that happened. Oh well.

Lorne in command of the SGC! Squeee! I love Lorne - they BETTER NOT kill him next season!

The Atlantis in the sand scene was awesome! That did make me go WOW! That's a cool shot.

And then the final scenes in the building....no, it wasn't a cliffhanger that made me crazy, since I'd already been spoiled for this and the S5 premiere, but it was still a cool sequence with them running and the building crashing around them.

So...good episode, not without its flaws, but one of the better ones this season.