Keller in "Missing" good or bad??

[Arica15]

I think the problem is not that Teyla's character was actually pushed to the side in Missing, she wasn't, there is a heck of a lot of really good stuff from Teyla in that episode. I think we don't remember how much, or how good it was because we're too busy thinking about how bad Keller was.

I'll freely admit I was very angry at them getting rid of Carson, and I thought then and still think now that they decided to axe Beckett to bring in Keller. But that didn't mean I was going to hate Keller, I had similar feelings about the Weir situation, but I ended up really liking Carter and Woolsey.

For the first few Keller episodes I was pretty indifferent to Keller, I wasn't overly impressed but thought the character might improve over time...then came missing. Like everyone else I was excited about this episode because finally Teyla got a plot line but I was horrified by how the Keller character was written. Whiny, self pitying, self important and immature are some of the nicer things I can say.

Unfortunately the Keller of Missing was a pretty accurate blue print for the rest of her episodes and to me she remains the worst regular character in any of the Stargate shows.

[Killdeer]

I think the problem is not that Teyla's character was actually pushed to the side in Missing, she wasn't, there is a heck of a lot of really good stuff from Teyla in that episode. I think we don't remember how much, or how good it was because we're too busy thinking about how bad Keller was.

I don't know that I agree with that, personally. Screen time and word count doesn't tell the whole story, and to me, Teyla is clearly the secondary character throughout the episode when she should have been the focus character. Nearly the entire episode is focused on Keller's POV, not Teyla's, and it should have been the other way around.

I'll freely admit I was very angry at them getting rid of Carson, and I thought then and still think now that they decided to axe Beckett to bring in Keller. But that didn't mean I was going to hate Keller, I had similar feelings about the Weir situation, but I ended up really liking Carter and Woolsey.

For the first few Keller episodes I was pretty indifferent to Keller, I wasn't overly impressed but thought the character might improve over time...then came missing. Like everyone else I was excited about this episode because finally Teyla got a plot line but I was horrified by how the Keller character was written. Whiny, self pitying, self important and immature are some of the nicer things I can say.

Unfortunately the Keller of Missing was a pretty accurate blue print for the rest of her episodes and to me she remains the worst regular character in any of the Stargate shows.

I wasn't all that attached to Carson, so losing him really didn't bother me that much (although I'll admit the method of writing him out was stupid). But I was not particularly a fan of Jewel Staite on Firefly and so was not overjoyed when I heard she was cast (part of that being I felt like she was way too young for the role of Head of Medical). In retrospect, however, I was mostly fine with her when they weren't writing her as Stargate!Kaylee. Kaylee, while not my favorite character, fit in the Firefly universe. She didn't fit in Stargate. I'm still ok with Keller in episodes like Doppelganger and Tracker (I didn't like Tracker, but it was because of the Rodney/Ronon stupidity, not because of Keller). Episodes like Missing, Quarantine, Identity....yeah, not so much.

I still think though that I wouldn't have been nearly as annoyed with Keller in Missing as I was if I had gone into it expecting it to be a Keller-focused episode. But going in expecting it to be totally focused on Teyla and the loss of the Athosians (and the revelation of Kanaan), and instead getting so much Keller......that was really really annoying. It was like "I don't care!!! Let's focus on the story I do care about!!!" But no.

[gateraid]

I admit to being totally surprised by the wordcount and screentime stats, because the bits that I remember from Missing are Keller pieces. That's neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things - there are Teyla bits in other eps that stand out for me, and the same for other characters - but as you've both (Killdeer and Arica15) alluded to, it's the impression of it being a Keller-centric episode that is the real problem. It should have been a Teyla-centric episode. Even at 50:50 wordcount and screentime, it still doesn't play out as a Teyla focused ep.

I don't know what the 'real' aim of this episode was. I suspect that there was more than one. They had to establish the Athosian subplot and how that affected Teyla, then they had to showcase their new Chief of Medicine. It's a pity they tried to do these things within the same episode.

[bluealien]

I think the problem is not that Teyla's character was actually pushed to the side in Missing, she wasn't, there is a heck of a lot of really good stuff from Teyla in that episode. I think we don't remember how much, or how good it was because we're too busy thinking about how bad Keller was.

Totally agree with this. I don't think Teyla's screentime would be such an issue if she had been paired with Rodney/John or Ronon. I'm pretty sure that each of them, well maybe not Ronon would have had more focus and more screentime than Teyla and no one would have had a problem with it. Most of the comments seem to be about how BAD Keller was and everything else seems to fade into the background.

I'll freely admit I was very angry at them getting rid of Carson, and I thought then and still think now that they decided to axe Beckett to bring in Keller. But that didn't mean I was going to hate Keller, I had similar feelings about the Weir situation, but I ended up really liking Carter and Woolsey.

Again I agree. I missed Carson but I was willing to give Keller a chance. In many cases the new character can be just as good as the replaced one as in the case of Carter and Woolsey, but Keller was a let down from the start. Her introduction was fairly medicore and I hoped she would improve, but she went from medicore, to bad to downright terrible, and Missing was the start of this terrible transition.

For the first few Keller episodes I was pretty indifferent to Keller, I wasn't overly impressed but thought the character might improve over time...then came missing. Like everyone else I was excited about this episode because finally Teyla got a plot line but I was horrified by how the Keller character was written. Whiny, self pitying, self important and immature are some of the nicer things I can say.

Yup that about covers it. But amongst all this whiny self pitying immature moments we still had some awesome moments from Teyla and she is the one that stood out for me in this episode. Keller is just remembered more because no one expected her to be that bad.

[Killdeer]

You're probably right that it would have been better received if it had been someone else with Teyla instead of Keller. I would probably have enjoyed it more myself, depending on how it was handled. But for me personally, if John or Ronon or Rodney had been shoved to the front of what I was expecting to be a Teyla-centric episode, I still would have been annoyed. Maybe not AS annoyed (or maybe more so, depending on how annoying they made Rodney to be - and I say that as a Rodney fan), but personally my #1 gripe with this episode has always been that the writers apparently didn't consider Teyla or the beginning of this story arc interesting enough to carry the episode. That irritation is of course exacerbated by Keller getting on my nerves, and how Keller was written here IS a problem - I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying that, to me, it isn't the MAIN problem.

but as you've both (Killdeer and Arica15) alluded to, it's the impression of it being a Keller-centric episode that is the real problem. It should have been a Teyla-centric episode. Even at 50:50 wordcount and screentime, it still doesn't play out as a Teyla focused ep.

I agree.

I don't know what the 'real' aim of this episode was. I suspect that there was more than one. They had to establish the Athosian subplot and how that affected Teyla, then they had to showcase their new Chief of Medicine. It's a pity they tried to do these things within the same episode.

Very true.

And, moving away for a moment from the Teyla issue, it is telling to me how they chose to showcase their new Chief of Medicine. As others have pointed out, Carson's spotlight episode in S1 focused on his skill and compassion. This episode focuses on Keller's....unfitness for the position? Really? Is that what you really want to highlight in your new character?

This brings up all sorts of thoughts about the differences in how the writers chose to portray male and female characters, but (fortunately ) I'm out of time.

[gateraid]

Totally agree with this. I don't think Teyla's screentime would be such an issue if she had been paired with Rodney/John or Ronon. I'm pretty sure that each of them, well maybe not Ronon would have had more focus and more screentime than Teyla and no one would have had a problem with it. Most of the comments seem to be about how BAD Keller was and everything else seems to fade into the background.

I think it could have played well if she'd been paired with John, Carter, or Ronon (in that order). It would've given Carter a good into to the PG, and if it were Ronon it would've been an opportunity to show that he and Teyla don't always do things the same as the expedition, but with John I think it would've finally been an opportunity to truly appreciate Teyla's 'other' life. I'm not saying he didn't before, but it seemed to me that they all took it for granted that she spent so much time with Atlantis/the team/expedition. This episode might've been a chance for him to see how they played on her conscience, and for a "I'm not on your team right now, don't tell me what to do Colonel" moment. In my head, I see it playing out a bit like the LFP scene, but with bigger repercussions. Probably what would've happened is that TPTW would've written it as Teyla breaking her leg and John having to carry her

Again I agree. I missed Carson but I was willing to give Keller a chance. In many cases the new character can be just as good as the replaced one as in the case of Carter and Woolsey, but Keller was a let down from the start. Her introduction was fairly medicore and I hoped she would improve, but she went from medicore, to bad to downright terrible, and Missing was the start of this terrible transition.

Yep, they can be just as good. And as I said, I hated Carson initially (although that was mostly based on his annoyingly fake accent), so I tried to ignore her. But this episode did her no favours. It was the first time that I'd watched Stargate and thought "please stop talking" in regards to a main character

Yup that about covers it. But amongst all this whiny self pitying immature moments we still had some awesome moments from Teyla and she is the one that stood out for me in this episode. Keller is just remembered more because no one expected her to be that bad.

There's some good Teyla stuff there, I agree. It should have been enough to carry the episode

You're probably right that it would have been better received if it had been someone else with Teyla instead of Keller. I would probably have enjoyed it more myself, depending on how it was handled. But for me personally, if John or Ronon or Rodney had been shoved to the front of what I was expecting to be a Teyla-centric episode, I still would have been annoyed. Maybe not AS annoyed (or maybe more so, depending on how annoying they made Rodney to be - and I say that as a Rodney fan), but personally my #1 gripe with this episode has always been that the writers apparently didn't consider Teyla or the beginning of this story arc interesting enough to carry the episode. That irritation is of course exacerbated by Keller getting on my nerves, and how Keller was written here IS a problem - I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying that, to me, it isn't the MAIN problem.

Re the bolded bit, it's almost like they forgot there was another side to her life, except when it was convenient. In Vengeance, Teyla mentions she has been helping the Terranans get settled - wtf? I'm not saying it's illogical for her to do so - quite the opposite in fact - but maybe once or twice we could have seen something like that. Perhaps start a show with information gained from the Athosians, or meet Teyla on another planet when she contacts them with some 'interesting' information. Little details like this are the type of thing that only has to happen once or twice a year for viewers to pick up on it, yet they apparently didn't think it was necessary

And, moving away for a moment from the Teyla issue, it is telling to me how they chose to showcase their new Chief of Medicine. As others have pointed out, Carson's spotlight episode in S1 focused on his skill and compassion. This episode focuses on Keller's....unfitness for the position? Really? Is that what you really want to highlight in your new character?

This brings up all sorts of thoughts about the differences in how the writers chose to portray male and female characters, but (fortunately ) I'm out of time.

With other characters, I didn't really think TPTW were sexist, at least not with the main characters. They seemed to have done a reasonable job up until then, although they tended to write them as genderless. There are episodes we could all point to and say "uggggh" in regard to that, but on the whole I think they have done a better job than say CSI or NCIS. But seriously, what other reason could there be for accentuating the worst features of Keller's character in that way? All it did was to make her character seem like a poor choice for the job, which seems unlikely given that they still had the gatebridge and ample opportunity to headhunt someone else.

[Killdeer]

with John I think it would've finally been an opportunity to truly appreciate Teyla's 'other' life. I'm not saying he didn't before, but it seemed to me that they all took it for granted that she spent so much time with Atlantis/the team/expedition. This episode might've been a chance for him to see how they played on her conscience, and for a "I'm not on your team right now, don't tell me what to do Colonel" moment. In my head, I see it playing out a bit like the LFP scene, but with bigger repercussions.

That might have made for an interesting episode, actually. But with these writers it probably wouldn't have gone that way - it more than likely would have been just what you said.

Probably what would've happened is that TPTW would've written it as Teyla breaking her leg and John having to carry her

I don't doubt it for a moment (see also: Phantoms, The Ark, etc.). Can't have John not being the Big Damn Hero after all. Teyla would have unfortunately been turned into the helpless one. It happened too many other times not to know that's how it would have gone.