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Lanteans: Out-Wraithing the Wraith

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    #46
    Originally posted by naamiaiset View Post
    here's a solution: let todd eat woolsey.

    I think atlantis' relationships with other people/lifeforms (wraith, todd specifically) in pegasus will noticeably diminish or not exist at all once woolsey is in command. atlantis can't take on the whole universe, no matter what it seems like sometimes.
    Naami,

    I think Woolsey would give Todd indigestion!
    Sparrow hawk

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      #47
      Originally posted by Sparrow_hawk View Post
      Actually
      Spoiler:
      the "destruction of Atlantis" scene does come up in This Mortal Coil so that vision has been accounted for, too.
      Oh, okay. I haven't watched that one yet.

      They still have to find a way to deal with Michael and his hybrids. I wonder, will the hybrids revert to nice guys once Michael is gone? Kind of like in the Wizard of Oz, Dorothy kills the Wicked Witch of the West and suddenly the WW's troopers are all friendly. Will the hybrids all go down on one knee and cry "Hail Teyla, the wicked ol' Wraith is dead!"?
      Hee! It would be nice. But remember what Michael said about his creations needing him (he said this in regard to Carson)? I think everyone Michael has touched will forever be dependent on him for survival, and once he's gone, then they will all start dying. I might be wrong - they may just revert back to humans, but he's got them so drugged up, who knows.

      Once that is resolved, Rodney and some of the scientists may be content to withdraw into Atlantis and see what new toys they can get operational. But I don't think Sheppard, Ronon and Teyla will be happy spending their time on guard duty or running around on endless missions to look for ZPMs.
      I think - just like they got curious over certain events in S4 (such as Todd's subspace transmitter signal in SoW ), there will be things to entice them out of the city once again. I'm braced to see more 'politics' in this upcoming season, though I hope it doesn't overshadow good story-telling. I get really bored really fast with hardnosed military commanders and politicians, and much rather see the teams out discovering new things.

      I can't see Sheppard manipulating Woolsey, but I can sure see him ignoring his orders and doing things the way he wants to.

      Woolsey has shows that he can bend the rules at least a little in The Seer, so there is still some hope. It will be interesting to see how that character develops, since I think that the direction his character takes and the future of Atlantis and its relationships with everyone in the PG are closely linked.
      Yeah, Shep will definitely do his own thing, regardless of Woolsey. But Woolsey also showed a bit of flexibility in - Midway? I can't remember now, but I think it was Midway. It would be GREAT to see Woolsey develop from a wussy little know-nothing into someone like Sam or Weir.

      Of course, with gas prices on the rise, and the mortgage crisis, and job insecurity, by the time S5 airs, I might not even have a tv! LOL...

      das
      Last edited by dasNdanger; March 12, 2008, 08:01 PM.
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        #48
        Originally posted by Sparrow_hawk View Post
        Naami,

        I think Woolsey would give Todd indigestion!
        good point. *scratches woolsey off the menu*

        they could have just put sheppard in charge, he leads the missions anyway. sheppard told sam before that he didn't want the job though. ...but then again, maybe not... atlantis might get even more morally corrupt.

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          #49
          Could Todd "eat" Michael???

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            #50
            Originally posted by Degilwen View Post
            Could Todd "eat" Michael???
            Wraith can feed on other Wraith and they can feed on humans, so I think they would be able to feed on hybrids, too.

            But Michael is a devious guy. If I was Todd, I would be suspicious that Michael had given himself the Hoffan drug or some variation of it and made himself poisonous to Wraith!
            Sparrow hawk

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              #51
              Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post
              ... But remember what Michael said about his creations needing him (he said this in regard to Carson)? I think everyone Michael has touched will forever be dependent on him for survival, and once he's gone, then they will all start dying. I might be wrong - they may just revert back to humans, but he's got them so drugged up, who knows.
              You have a good point. He probably does have them dependent on him for their lives and he probably made sure that they know it, too; otherwise they could revolt and kill him.
              I think - just like they got curious over certain events in S4 (such as Todd's subspace transmitter signal in SoW ), there will be things to entice them out of the city once again. I'm braced to see more 'politics' in this upcoming season, though I hope it doesn't overshadow good story-telling. I get really bored really fast with hardnosed military commanders and politicians, and much rather see the teams out discovering new things.
              Good story-telling is the key. I'm fine with a little politics as long as there is a point to it and it doesn't become the main focus. But I think there are a lot of fans that will wander away from SGA if they don't get plenty of action.

              Reality might be sneaking into our fantasy world. I can see the IOA sending Woolsey in to find out why Atlantis is so far over budget all the time and putting him in charge to cut costs.
              Yeah, Shep will definitely do his own thing, regardless of Woolsey. But Woolsey also showed a bit of flexibility in - Midway? I can't remember now, but I think it was Midway. It would be GREAT to see Woolsey develop from a wussy little know-nothing into someone like Sam or Weir.
              Woolsey is going to have to grow as a character. I like Robert Piccardo as an actor, but he always reminds me of a representative from the Internal Revenue Service (sorry, I know that is a U.S. joke -- they're the guys that collect the taxes) and I don't think I am alone. I'm curious about how the writers plan to overcome that .

              Of course we don't know what other villains they have in store for us. Unless, as I suggested in another thread, the horrifying enemy for Season 5 is:

              Spoiler:
              Accountants!
              Sparrow hawk

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                #52
                Don't forget that Woolsey showed some serious backbone in Heroes II when he calmly threated a two-star general with permanent jail time due to a threat to expose the Stargate Program's dirty secrets to the news crew.

                He also had some teeth when he turned over the evidence against Vice President Kinsey, despite his NID connections.

                I hope they show that side of him more than the bumbling beaurocrat he's become in the IOA.
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                  #53
                  Originally posted by Cory Holmes View Post
                  Don't forget that Woolsey showed some serious backbone in Heroes II when he calmly threated a two-star general with permanent jail time due to a threat to expose the Stargate Program's dirty secrets to the news crew.

                  He also had some teeth when he turned over the evidence against Vice President Kinsey, despite his NID connections.

                  I hope they show that side of him more than the bumbling beaurocrat he's become in the IOA.
                  It's good to hear that. I haven't seen all of StarGate, so I was not aware that Woolsey had another side. Could be some interesting changes ahead.
                  Sparrow hawk

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                    #54
                    Woosley defiantly has a different side. He is a bureacrat but he really strivies to do what he feels is right. Check out 7x20 Inaguration
                    Originally posted by aretood2
                    Jelgate is right

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                      #55
                      Originally posted by Sparrow_hawk View Post
                      They still have to find a way to deal with Michael and his hybrids. I wonder, will the hybrids revert to nice guys once Michael is gone? Kind of like in the Wizard of Oz, Dorothy kills the Wicked Witch of the West and suddenly the WW's troopers are all friendly. Will the hybrids all go down on one knee and cry "Hail Teyla, the wicked ol' Wraith is dead!"?.
                      and
                      Hee! It would be nice. But remember what Michael said about his creations needing him (he said this in regard to Carson)? I think everyone Michael has touched will forever be dependent on him for survival, and once he's gone, then they will all start dying. I might be wrong - they may just revert back to humans, but he's got them so drugged up, who knows
                      Thinking of that, i wonder if their 'dependency on michaels drugs' can be reversed with tretonin.. Like we did with the Jaffa.

                      He also had some teeth when he turned over the evidence against Vice President Kinsey, despite his NID connections.

                      I hope they show that side of him more than the bumbling beaurocrat he's become in the IOA.
                      Agreed. As he developed in SG1 i started liking his character more and more. Now he is an IOA floosy, i have gotten back into disliking him.

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                        #56
                        Humans are the worst species you can find. We're more devious than the Goa'uld and far more 'evil' than the Wraith or the Asurans. We don't have an excuse like they do, whether it be genetic memory or biological needs or base code. We're just plain evil towards ourselves and others.
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                          #57
                          I'm enjoying this thread a lot... I was having another look at Common Ground, and I think that TPTB missed a great opportunity that could have arisen from that episode. When Todd [brilliantly acted by Chris Heyerdahl] says to Sheppard that the gift of life is reserved 'only for our most devout worshippers - or our brothers', the implication there is that he has found tremendous respect for Sheppard, and this has led him to show him, first hand, that there is more to the Wraith than Sheppard could ever know. Instead of being intirigued and interested to know more, all the writers could give Sheppard to say at that point was 'All bets are off', which let Sheppard down as a character. As the one maverick on Atlantis, the one who will go his own way if need be, he was poised at that point to find a whole new understanding about who and what the Wraith really are. And then, when Todd comes back, look at how they treat him - with imprisonment and suspicion - with typical short-sightedness, in other words, which to my mind perfectly justifies Todd using the Lanteans to get whatever he can out of them!

                          Go Todd! Othala08

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by Othala08 View Post
                            I'm enjoying this thread a lot... I was having another look at Common Ground, and I think that TPTB missed a great opportunity that could have arisen from that episode. When Todd [brilliantly acted by Chris Heyerdahl] says to Sheppard that the gift of life is reserved 'only for our most devout worshippers - or our brothers', the implication there is that he has found tremendous respect for Sheppard, and this has led him to show him, first hand, that there is more to the Wraith than Sheppard could ever know. Instead of being intirigued and interested to know more, all the writers could give Sheppard to say at that point was 'All bets are off', which let Sheppard down as a character. As the one maverick on Atlantis, the one who will go his own way if need be, he was poised at that point to find a whole new understanding about who and what the Wraith really are. And then, when Todd comes back, look at how they treat him - with imprisonment and suspicion - with typical short-sightedness, in other words, which to my mind perfectly justifies Todd using the Lanteans to get whatever he can out of them!

                            Go Todd! Othala08

                            EXACTLY!!!!

                            And I agree. Chris Heyerdahl, in his interview here, said that Todd was more affected by the situation than Sheppard - to Sheppard it was just another adventure, nothing more. But Todd was affected differently...Here's Chris's comments on it from the interview here:

                            Chris Heyerdahl: "Well, I think Ace [Todd], his drum is going to a much more complicated beat. He's a lot of fun because when we originally made him, he's been sitting in a cell for an awfully long time, in a hell of a lot of pain, and has given up hope. The most distasteful thing, I think for him, was the fact that he was given hope by a little creature that he doesn't necessarily have a whole lot of respect for.

                            "I think in his meditation that he has been dealing with, and living with, for the last number of years, he has created an ability to give up on life. The law of the Samurai, that once you are able to accept death freely then it creates a certain freedom.

                            "He's given hope by this guy and there's a bond that is formed between this Wraith and Sheppard that's not necessarily the same bond between Sheppard and the Wraith.

                            "Well think about it. Sheppard is a guy who never gives up. He always thinks his friends are going to come and get him. He always thinks he's going to be saved. He always thinks he's going to get out. If not by somebody else he's going to get out on his own. He never gives up. Here's a guy who has given up. He's completely given up. And yet he's given the gift of life, hope, brotherhood, through the strangest venue, and that's Sheppard.

                            "So his connection to Sheppard is much more -- at least from my point of view, right? -- much more profound than the other way around, because Sheppard has given him a key out of years of his life, whereas for Sheppard it's one more adventure. One more life-saving detrimental that turns into being a rather positive ending, as is his way.

                            "It's a much more complex relationship. And at the same time, the reality is that the relationship can only go so far. Left alone in a closed room long enough he'll take him, and it's just the way it is. It is his nature. So it creates a fascinating relationship.

                            "That being said, the amount of trust that's needed to deal on both sides is enormous. The amount of trust that a human being would have to have in him is so much more than the other way around, simply because you never know. You can be friends with a shark but ultimately you'd never know."


                            Good insights there. Will be so interesting to see where they take Todd - but hopefully they will explore his relationship with Sheppard - with humans - in a little more depth. I'm not holding my breath - but maybe...


                            das
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                              #59
                              Wow. I would have loved it if todd himself said something like that to shep and co..

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                                #60
                                Originally posted by garhkal View Post
                                Wow. I would have loved it if todd himself said something like that to shep and co..
                                Maybe he'll get the chance to explain it to them next season!
                                Sparrow hawk

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