Atlantis' leadership in s4 - Spoilers and speculation

[ReganX]

Well it's my pet theory.

Spoiler:

Something big happens...massive to the point of nerve wracking...and the IOA realizes that Atlantis needs to be under military control. But who should be in command? And from which country?

I think they'll begrudgingly decide on Carter because of her experience and her ability to manage both military and civilian contractors among many other things. But I imagine there will be some concessions involved too...like perhaps a multinational military force or something like that...so that it's not all U.S. military there. So she'd be ordered to go...and she'd not be entirely thrilled with the notion but will answer the call of duty because that's what she does.

I think also she'll be promoted to full Colonel. That's JMHO of course but it would make sense if I'm right about the rest.

Of course I'm intrigued by the whole "she comes in on her own ship" thing. What does that mean? I doubt they'd have her there just to command a ship...that seems like a misuse of her skills.

If she's not there to be in command, then why? The only "opening" that appears to be made available in the coming months is that of leading the city.

But hey, I could be way wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. LOL

Spoiler:

I’m not 100% sure how it works in the military but if Sam was in the Pegasus galaxy in command of her own ship – possibly as a full colonel but having seniority over Sheppard even as a lieutenant colonel – and something happened to Weir or Weir had to leave for a brief time (maybe Atlantis gets cut off from Earth while Weir’s at the SGC giving them and update) would Sam be the one to take command of the Atlantis expedition, maybe the one left in charge while Weir was away, or would Sheppard?

[ReganX]

If the leadership is to stay in civilian control, then Weir is the obvious choice to maintain command.

If circumstances demand that the command be turned over to the military, then Carter is the obvious choice...both for her experience and her political viability.

As a scientist as well as a military officer, Sam would also be a good compromise if command of Atlantis is to be turned over to the military.

The military would get their way and have an experienced officer in command but at the same time, those who were more interested in the scientific side of things would know that that side of the expedition wasn’t going to be neglected.

[RealmOfX]

Spoiler:

I’m not 100% sure how it works in the military but if Sam was in the Pegasus galaxy in command of her own ship – possibly as a full colonel but having seniority over Sheppard even as a lieutenant colonel – and something happened to Weir or Weir had to leave for a brief time (maybe Atlantis gets cut off from Earth while Weir’s at the SGC giving them and update) would Sam be the one to take command of the Atlantis expedition, maybe the one left in charge while Weir was away, or would Sheppard?

It depends on what the contingency plans for the expedition are, and yes, the military will have a clearly defined plan for the chain of command of the expedition in case of emergencies. I'm sure the IOC worked something out with the military because in an emergency you don't want to be in confusion and leaderless. In a military situation Shep would be in charge anyway.

There are a lot of rules for command in the military. Rules for assigned command and rules for assuming command. Basicly if you aren't assigned to a command then you can't just walk in and start ordering subordinates about (very loosely worded for the non military people). However there are rules for who should take command if the situation should arise during an emergency.

So If we're talking about just Elizabeth being incapacitated then I'm laying bets that Shep has standing orders to take control during an emergency of any kind be it military or otherwise. If this is the case then unless Sam has orders to the contrary she wouldn't take over and likewise Caldwell wouldn't either. So yeah in this case a more junior officer would be in charge, however it really depends on the circumstances of the situation. Don't forget that TPTB can and do chuck out the regs when it suits their purposes

Now if more than one person at the top is incapacitated then things could get murky depending on the situation.

Clear as mud, huh

<added>
The above scenario was for if they were cut off from Earth.

[RealmOfX]

Could people please watch their phrasing of things when speaking about actors and contracts. You may not like a character but please don't let that slide over onto the actor. Sometimes phrasing is unfortunate and sometimes it's deliberate.

Sentences like this can seem to insinuate that an actor isn't good enough to be on a show and is only there because TPTB were forced to because of contractual reasons. (Actually some people need to learn about options for contracts).
"Now that SG-1 has ended I think they should just let it end and not take the characters over to SGA just for contract reasons or something, there certainly could be a better solution for that..."

Some people sling mud and hope some sticks and others unfortunately just don't see at the time that their words can be taken another way. So how about we drop the contract talk please. It was probably unfortunate phrasing but I'd also hate to think people were deliberately taking potshots at Amanda because that is just childish and against forum rules.

[Chailyn]

It depends on what the contingency plans for the expedition are, and yes, the military will have a clearly defined plan for the chain of command of the expedition in case of emergencies. I'm sure the IOC worked something out with the military because in an emergency you don't want to be in confusion and leaderless. In a military situation Shep would be in charge anyway.

In The Long Goodbye, when both Sheppard and Weir were out for the count, Caldwell assumed command. However, I remember Rodney butting heads with him because Rodney said that after Elizabeth he was the highest ranking civilian in leadership and the job fell to him. Caldwell basically just ignored him. Rodney allowed Caldwell to take command because Caldwell said it was a military situation, however I doubt Rodney would have let him keep command thereafter. Obviously, there is a chain of command even among the civilians. From what I gather, a civilian would step up to replace Weir, while a military officer would replace Sheppard. So if anything happened to Weir, Rodney would replace her, right? Unless, of course, Carter just comes in, and the US military assumes command of everything, regardless of what countries the soldiers are from.

Maybe the international forces can cause a mutany and become Ford-like, establishing another base somewhere else in PG. That would be interesting.

[flynn1959]

And if Carter's always right, where does that leave Atlantis's resident genius, Rodney??

In the corner sulking because the national treasure has just proved him wrong again and made him look foolish in front of the others. You only have to look at the SG1 episodes with the pair of them, Rodney always ends up looking bad.

[flynn1959]

Actually, sorry but I tink Sam's presence might be a problem for everyone on the main cast. Elizabeth of course but that we know. Then Rodney, since both of them are astrophysicist. John because she's in the military too and from what I've heard she'll get promoted again and would be his superior. Teyla and Ronon too because she has fight skills too. She could take everybody's place if TPTB want actually.

I agree with you. I really don't see why they needed to bring her over, Atlantis was just fine as it was. They have removed a third of the main cast, the only reason Carter is only in 14 episodes next season is imo because AT will need time off to make the SG1 movies. If Atlantis survives for a fifth season expect Carter to be in all of the episodes and Wier in as many as Ford has been since he went recurring.

The rest of the Atlantis cast will suffer because of this move. Lines/screen time have to be taken from somewhere and the most obvious place is from John and Rodney.

[Uber]

I agree with you. I really don't see why they needed to bring her over, Atlantis was just fine as it was. They have removed a third of the main cast, the only reason Carter is only in 14 episodes next season is imo because AT will need time off to make the SG1 movies. If Atlantis survives for a fifth season expect Carter to be in all of the episodes and Wier in as many as Ford has been since he went recurring.

The rest of the Atlantis cast will suffer because of this move. Lines/screen time have to be taken from somewhere and the most obvious place is from John and Rodney.

Atlantis was not just fine as it was. Atlantis was on the road to cancellation and TPTB knew it.

They need SGA to continue on if they have a prayer in the world of getting a third series or continuing to make gate movies.

So yes...it sucks for some of us fans who liked things a certain way. But that certain way was not sustainable and will not continue.

And yes, things will be different...but different doesn't automatically mean worse. It depends on what the changes are and how they are implemented.

It could be a nightmare...or it could be awesome.

[flynn1959]

[QUOTE=ÜberSG-1Fan;6230072]Atlantis was not just fine as it was. Atlantis was on the road to cancellation and TPTB knew it.

QUOTE]

If that is the case then I don't think making the monumental mistake of bringing in a character from SG1 and removing two of the well loved existing characters make any sense at all. Especially when you look at the overwhelming negative fan response to the addition of Carter. Carter has her fans but nowhere near as many as some people seem to think, I for one won't watch any Atlantis episode that has her in and I am not alone. I think any new Carter fans she brings over will be cancelled out by the ones who will leave because of her.

[prion]

As a scientist as well as a military officer, Sam would also be a good compromise if command of Atlantis is to be turned over to the military.

The military would get their way and have an experienced officer in command but at the same time, those who were more interested in the scientific side of things would know that that side of the expedition wasn’t going to be neglected.

I honestly don't see Sam as command material. Scientifically, she's great, but when it comes to military decisions, the writers have weakened in some episodes with indecisive and second-guessing behavior. I'd much rather see Caldwell in command as we'd get some good conflict, but overall, get in some new writers who have a better grasp on negotiations and command, and leave Weir in command.

Yeah, I can dream....

[jenks]

If that is the case then I don't think making the monumental mistake of bringing in a character from SG1 and removing two of the well loved existing characters make any sense at all.

Weir isn't being removed, she'll just have a reduced role.

I for one won't watch any Atlantis episode that has her in and I am not alone.

That is pathetic, you don't even what it will be like yet...

[RealmOfX]

Atlantis was not just fine as it was. Atlantis was on the road to cancellation and TPTB knew it.

If that is the case then I don't think making the monumental mistake of bringing in a character from SG1 and removing two of the well loved existing characters make any sense at all. Especially when you look at the overwhelming negative fan response to the addition of Carter. Carter has her fans but nowhere near as many as some people seem to think, I for one won't watch any Atlantis episode that has her in and I am not alone. I think any new Carter fans she brings over will be cancelled out by the ones who will leave because of her.

Oh dear me. We're not going to start the old "My favourite character has more fans than your favourite character" garbage are we?? It gets old really quick and there's no way to prove it one way or the other.

I don't suppose that you have numbers for your supposed overwhelming negative fan response to Sam Carter? Do you? No, I didn't think so.

As Ooooober said Atlantis was already in trouble before the cast changes started. For me, the show had started to show promise again in the 3rd season (excluding a couple of stinker eps) but to be only showing promise by the end of the 3rd season is not good, not good at all and the ratings are certainly mediocre. I was thinking that S4 may be the last season way back in S2.

It is very easy to cast all your woes at the feet of a character you don't like and declare that it is all their fault. Very easy to do but not at all constructive or accurate. It would appear that the real problem lies with TPTB and until they address those problems no amount of cast changes are going to remedy the situation.

To me removing two of your main cast is not smart BUT they may have a very good reason for it (I can't imagine one at the moment). How new characters are integrated into the series is totally up to TPTB let's hope they learnt something from the last big shake up in the Stargate Universe because if they haven't then it doesn't matter what characters are in S4 and who get the most lines because the series will be cancelled.

Dr Elizabeth Weir should lead Atlantis IMO but who knows what TPTB have planned for S4 because apart from saying Weir will be back in a recurring role nothing has been said about changes to the leadership.

[flynn1959]

Weir isn't being removed, she'll just have a reduced role.



That is pathetic, you don't even what it will be like yet...

Why is it pathetic? I can't stand Carter on SG1, so unless they radically re-write the character for Atlantis I will still not be able to stand the character. Why should I watch a show that has a character I hate in it and has thrown away two characters I love? Yes I know Weir is going recurring and will still be in the show just like Ford oh wait...when did we last see Ford.

I don't see why I should waste my time watching a show that has a character like Carter in it. She sucks the life out of every scene she is in.

[flynn1959]

[QUOTE=RealmOfX;6230687]
I don't suppose that you have numbers for your supposed overwhelming negative fan response to Sam Carter? Do you? No, I didn't think so.

QUOTE]

Take a look around the net at this and other forums and read all the negative posts, check out the polls, read a few LJ entries, talk to people. Even some die hard Sam fans are saying it is a bad idea, some ship fans hate the idea that with Carter in another Galaxy they can't maintain thier little fantasy of Carter and Sir shacking up at weekends.

A lot of people are very, very unhappy about Carter being thrust on Atlantis. That is a fact.

[chocdoc]

[QUOTE=flynn1959;6230717]

I don't suppose that you have numbers for your supposed overwhelming negative fan response to Sam Carter? Do you? No, I didn't think so.

QUOTE]

Take a look around the net at this and other forums and read all the negative posts, check out the polls, read a few LJ entries, talk to people. Even some die hard Sam fans are saying it is a bad idea, some ship fans hate the idea that with Carter in another Galaxy they can't maintain thier little fantasy of Carter and Sir shacking up at weekends.

A lot of people are very, very unhappy about Carter being thrust on Atlantis. That is a fact.

You seem to be saying it is because of Carter that there is the reaction. It's not Carter, per se for most fans that are unhappy--It is because it is an SG-1 character that this reaction is occurring.

If it were Daniel, it would be the same response. Same for Mitchell and Vala.

I understand why some SGA fans don't want any SG-1 character on their show this much.

For those of us who will now watch SGA because of Carter--well I'm not going to be that vocal about it because I can understand the fanbases of Beckett and Weir right now. I would be just as upset if it was Sam who was being reduced to recurring on SG-1.

And negative responses are always louder and more noticed than positive or simply neutral responses.

(Actually, I'm surprised that the reaction seems to be low key at Scifi forum and Sony Atlantis forum on this issue).