The Anti Season 4 Thread (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONLY.

[maxbo]

Nah, they don't hate the episode, they just can't get past the fact who was the main character in it.

Hmmm, that's not true because in the episode thread, posters gave several reasons why they didn't like TRW and many of those reasons had nothing to do with it being Elizabeth-centric. Some thought there was too much Jack - others believed that there wasn't enough Jack and some hated that it wasn't really Jack and some didn't like the non-Stargate feel of the beginning because the setting was too normal - not sci-fi enough.

In my case, the Elizabeth-heavy beginning was the only thing I liked about TRW because, for me, that episode fell apart when the other SGA members were introduced. It was almost as if the writers put all their energy into the first half and then ran out of steam and just tacked on scenes in the second half to fill the time.

So, I didn't like TRW, overall, because the second half didn't live up the first half - not because it was Elizabeth-centric. This episode should've been a lot better than it was and in that respect it annoys me almost as much as The Game does.

[ToasterOnFire]

Personally, I didn't care much for TRW because it was essentially a rewrite of Home - someone is unknowingly stuck in a false world created by an alien entity. Only this time the viewer knew right away that Weir's world was false, so there was no "OMG!" moment of revelation like in the end of Home.

TPTB can play switcheroo as much as they want with the Atlantis cast, but if they don't start producing great scripts with more originality then it doesn't matter much. Hell, it may be too late already.

[mcbarr]

About TRW, I liked seeing more of Dr. Weir, but I think the plot was far from creative. There are so many eps like this in science fiction and TV in general... The writers should have come up with something better for Elizabeth, IMO. If they only had changed the dream sequence from an Earth based one to an Asuran homeworld based one, I know I would have enjoyed the ep a lot more. You know, Asurans trying to convince Dr. Weir she's one of them and so on.

[FoolishPleasure]

HmmmSo, I didn't like TRW, overall, because the second half didn't live up the first half - not because it was Elizabeth-centric. This episode should've been a lot better than it was and in that respect it annoys me almost as much as The Game does.

That's a big problem I've had with the writers. I didn't care for the last 15/20 minutes of TRW either, but I also felt the writers didn't come through on several others - offhand, "Conversion" should have been about Shep dealing with impending doom, and it would have been a great opportunity for some Shep backstory or flashbacks to his family. Instead we get Weir fretting about Shep. It was boring!

"Phantoms" would have been an excellent showcase for Teyla - being the only unaffected character, it would have been fun to see her try to talk and/or fight her friends, to solve the situation. Instead, she was incapacited the whole episode.

I just feel TPTB get good ideas, but don't know exactly how to take these ideas to an interesting conclusion.

[maxbo]

I agree that SGA's problems are due to lazy writing. The success or failure of Season 4 will depend on whether TPTB truly understands that the problem is not the characters - the problem is with the writing for the characters.

Although, despite the cast changes, I'm more interested in SGA than I was at this time last year, I have to admit that I still have one foot close to that door heading out of SGA fandom because promising spoilers doesn't necessarily equal satisfying execution.

That's a big problem I've had with the writers. I didn't care for the last 15/20 minutes of TRW either, but I also felt the writers didn't come through on several others - offhand, "Conversion" should have been about Shep dealing with impending doom, and it would have been a great opportunity for some Shep backstory or flashbacks to his family. Instead we get Weir fretting about Shep. It was boring!

"Phantoms" would have been an excellent showcase for Teyla - being the only unaffected character, it would have been fun to see her try to talk and/or fight her friends, to solve the situation. Instead, she was incapacited the whole episode.

I just feel TPTB get good ideas, but don't know exactly how to take these ideas to an interesting conclusion.

True. All too often TPTB chose the easy route rather than take the time needed to truly flesh out the characters.

[mcbarr]

That's a big problem I've had with the writers. I didn't care for the last 15/20 minutes of TRW either, but I also felt the writers didn't come through on several others - offhand, "Conversion" should have been about Shep dealing with impending doom, and it would have been a great opportunity for some Shep backstory or flashbacks to his family. Instead we get Weir fretting about Shep. It was boring!

"Phantoms" would have been an excellent showcase for Teyla - being the only unaffected character, it would have been fun to see her try to talk and/or fight her friends, to solve the situation. Instead, she was incapacited the whole episode.

I just feel TPTB get good ideas, but don't know exactly how to take these ideas to an interesting conclusion.

The Return - Part 2 was one of them, IMO. Part 1 was a great build-up episode with the Ancients kicking the expedition out of Atlantis, the characters trying to go back to their lives on Earth and later taking drastic measures to reclaim Atlantis, then came Part 2 with no Ancients at all, a lot of boring Woolsey/O'Neill stuff, a deus ex machina solution to the Asuran problem etc. etc.

[Gregorius]

TRW was essentially a rewrite of Home, which was a multiplayer rewrite of SG-1 Season 4 episode "Absolute Power" or rather a combintion of "Tin Man" and "Absolute Power". Also "Home" resembles "The Gamekeeper" while TRW also heavily borrows from "Forever in a day".

While the SG-1 episodes where unique, and far more amusing, TRW and Home felt to me like a rehash, a poor rehash, of those episodes. It's why I don't like those episodes...not because they're "Weir heavy" or "Jack heavy" or something else, they just feel like rehashing old SG-1 storylines into Atlantis ones. Also, they're not the only episodes that feel like that...

It's just as ToasterOnFire said: TPTB aren't writing original and great scripts anymore.

[Gregorius]

The Return - Part 2 was one of them, IMO. Part 1 was a great build-up episode with the Ancients kicking the expedition out of Atlantis, the characters trying to go back to their lives on Earth and later taking drastic measures to reclaim Atlantis, then came Part 2 with no Ancients at all, a lot of boring Woolsey/O'Neill stuff, a deus ex machina solution to the Asuran problem etc. etc.

Not to mention the plotholes and cop-outs in those episodes: Those Ancients are conviently all dead, their ship is nowhere to be seen, etc...

[Celcool]

I didn't watch those episodes TRW is supposed to be the copy of before I saw TRW so... (only Home until now, I don't watch SG-1) it was actually the first Atlantis episode I watched and I loved the concept and Elizabeth in it. I had a vague idea of what Atlantis was about back then so they sure fooled me with all the "is it real or not" stuff LOL it still remains one of my very favorites to this day I have to say.

[ToasterOnFire]

I just feel TPTB get good ideas, but don't know exactly how to take these ideas to an interesting conclusion.

This is another reason why I don't get excited about upcoming episode rumors and spoilery summaries anymore. In s2 and s3 I spoiled myself silly on upcoming episodes and while the basic ideas were interesting the episodes as a whole often didn't pan out. Epiphany was originally panned to have Shep backstory and most of it was cut. Submersion was supposed to have more Teyla and that was cut. The whole concept of Michael was fascinating, until the Atlantis team made serious errors in carrying out that plan, errors that I just can't see people of this caliber doing. Weir's battle with the IOA sounded great for NML, but I don't think it was written well at all.

Now my attitude with s4 spoilers is "Eh, we'll see if TPTB can make that work." At least I haven't seen a script that immediately raises my hackles, as was the case with Irresistable and Irresponsible.

[Anuna]

The keyword there is "can" because it can also have the opposite effect: Reviving a series. The main problem is that the Stargate PTB currently haven't been able to show that they can handle writing characters out in a way that makes sense and introducing new characters properly (With exception of SG-1 Season 6 where they did manage to do that).

The changes are because Atlantis' ratings are low, so obviously there is something wrong with the show. But instead of looking what's wrong - the writing, the character development reset button, etc.. - they pick the easy way: Kill off main characters and introduce new ones so you force new storylines...but if the underlying cause isn't treated then you'll piss off people with such decisions and still have poor ratings.

That reminds me of taking the pain killers instead going to your dentist when you have a bad tooth. It might bring some new excitement in the beginning, but I suspect it can solwe the underlying problem - bad writing.

[JesterDala]

That reminds me of taking the pain killers instead going to your dentist when you have a bad tooth. It might bring some new excitement in the beginning, but I suspect it can solwe the underlying problem - bad writing.

TPTB have written 200+ epidoes of SG-1 and Atlantis so I understand how certain episodes might be below par. But instead of changing cast members, villians even the setting of the show (setting: flying around somewhere), they should realise that there are other quality writers out there looking for work.

It seems to me that it should occur to them that after ten years, they might need a break.

[parisindy]

Now my attitude with s4 spoilers is "Eh, we'll see if TPTB can make that work." At least I haven't seen a script that immediately raises my hackles, as was the case with Irresistable and Irresponsible.

man i seriously wish i was like you... everything i've seen so far annoys me

[mcbarr]

man i seriously wish i was like you... everything i've seen so far annoys me

Same here. And if s4 won't have Lucius, it will have Sam.

[parisindy]

Same here. And if s4 won't have Lucius, it will have Sam.

whats the difference?