The Anti Season 4 Thread (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONLY.

[Falcon Horus]

I'm still reading the previous issue so no...anything good?

[parisindy]

I'm still reading the previous issue so no...anything good?

nothing new really just an article about Torri that was interesting

[Killdeer]

nothing new really just an article about Torri that was interesting

I posted several quotes over in the Season 4 & Dr Weir thread. I thought the article was very good. Torri was pretty candid about her character, and some of the frustrations she's had.

Also, it seemed at the end that she did confirm that it was not her choice to leave. That quote is included in the quotes I posted, but she said that she was told there would be changes and she had a choice between leaving permanantly or going to recurring. I'm going to miss having her around more.

I just finished rewatching Tao of Rodney. I loved that episode - total awesomeness. I love Elizabeth and what she is to the show - a wonderful balance. You can see how deeply she cares about all her people. It's going to be hard adjusting to not having her. *sigh*

[parisindy]

I posted several quotes over in the Season 4 & Dr Weir thread. I thought the article was very good. Torri was pretty candid about her character, and some of the frustrations she's had.

Also, it seemed at the end that she did confirm that it was not her choice to leave. That quote is included in the quotes I posted, but she said that she was told there would be changes and she had a choice between leaving permanantly or going to recurring. I'm going to miss having her around more.

I just finished rewatching Tao of Rodney. I loved that episode - total awesomeness. I love Elizabeth and what she is to the show - a wonderful balance. You can see how deeply she cares about all her people. It's going to be hard adjusting to not having her. *sigh*

Yeah the Tao of Rodney was pretty good, not my fav of the season but a ver sweet episode. I love Torri in it.

Shep is my fav characters, but the big stumbling blocks for me of season 4 are paul and torri. As much as i love shep i love 'the team' more. Its the first show where i really loved all the characters. I really think that paul and torri were treated poorly and thats what breaks my heart.

you mentioned torri was given the option of becoming reoccuring or leaving permanently. Okay so we know she is going to be reoccuring in season 4, but really its a formality... i think Either choice leads to the same thing... she may get a couple of more episodes but Weir as we know her is kaput.

And it breaks my heart
TPTB destroyed the team... and shep always said 'we don't leave our people behind' ...to bad TPTB don't subscribe to the same theory

thanks for posting your thoughts Killdeer ((hugs))

[Willow'sCat]

Because I'm in a questionnaire mood. Where do you guys fit in?

I am:

A) Not going to watch any of season 4.
B) Going to pick and choose a few episodes to watch. (Weir ones, Carson ones, good plot ones, etc)
C) Going to start watching s4, and if I don't like where it's going I'm going to stop.
E) Going to watch most or all of season 4, but I have severe/many reservations about it.
F) Going to watch most or all of season 4, but I have a few quibbles about it.

I'm a E.

I'm C with a touch of E.

It depends just how badly the first few travel, they may not be bad enough to stop outright.

Also it depends on when Carter is appearing, and Weir leaving. If Weir leaves right away then it may give the show a boost in my expectations meaning I keep watching.

Like wise if Carter comes in and throws her weight around or the McKay/Carter crap starts then nothing will probably make me watch.

[Chailyn]

I'm C with a touch of E.

It depends just how badly the first few are, they may not be bad enough to stop outright.

Same here. Carter and the Teyla pregnancy arc are the hurdles for me. I know what I like in a show and both those plotlines aren't it. We'll see how it goes.

[Killdeer]

I posted this in another thread, but am reposting here. After watching Tao of Rodney this weekend, I just kept thinking about next season when Weir won't be there any more. It's going to be a definate loss. Whatever you may think about Carter, she doesn't have the personal empathetic touch that Weir does IMO. Not that she doesn't care, but she's a scientist, a soldier. Losing both Weir and Carson...gah, its like they've carved the emotional heart out of the team. Who's left to give the personal touch? Just Teyla, and she's going to have her own issues next year. What do you all think? I love all the team, but the guys, Shep, McKay, and Ronon, are not that big on the emotional moments. It was usually, though not always, up to Weir, Carson, or Teyla to be the catalyst for those type of scenes. Now what's going to happen? I hadn't thought of this until tonight...but it's a depressing thought.

[parisindy]

totally agree! 100% some of the campaigns to save weir and carson
have been calling it 'the heart of atlantis' and i couldn't agree more

i do love my mushy moments and i'm not talking 'ship' moments
but the little moments

we truly have lost something

[grasshopper64]

Because I'm in a questionnaire mood. Where do you guys fit in?

I am:

A) Not going to watch any of season 4.
B) Going to pick and choose a few episodes to watch. (Weir ones, Carson ones, good plot ones, etc)
C) Going to start watching s4, and if I don't like where it's going I'm going to stop.
E) Going to watch most or all of season 4, but I have severe/many reservations about it.
F) Going to watch most or all of season 4, but I have a few quibbles about it.

I'm a E.

I'm an E, I'll watch the show despite having great reservations about a lot of the changes, although the difference will be, living in the UK, I probably won't go out of my way to see the eps straight after they air in the US like I might have before

I've watched all of S9 & S10 of SG1 despite having a lot of issues with it. I guess I'm hoping that even if I don't like the changes there will still be some good eps and it will be better than I'm expecting

[Willow'sCat]

Weir is no more the heart or soul of Atlantis then I am a super model. Good grief the women gave the go ahead to kill on mass, then she had the nerve to turn up a few eps latter finally FINALLY admitting she did frak up! This is what is wrong with Weir! Too little too late. This is what is wrong with the show IMHO, too many bad decisions and no one taking any responsibility for them.

And as for Beckett well he did mess around with things he had no right to and all in the name of being a doctor. Well that kind of doctoring I can do without seeing on Stargate.

I just do not see where all this rubbish about Heart and Soul is coming from! Well I can but I guess in desperation we all clutch at straws.

[mcbarr]

Well, it seems your real problem is with SGA management, not with the characters of Dr. Weir and Beckett. I have to disagree with you about the heart and soul part, though. Elizabeth Weir and Carson Beckett were clearly the heart and soul of Atlantis, and it's really difficult to see Carter, Sheppard, McKay or anyone else being able to make up for their absence.

[Willow'sCat]

Well, it seems your real problem is with SGA management, not with the characters of Dr. Weir and Beckett. I have to disagree with you about the heart and soul part, though. Elizabeth Weir and Carson Beckett were clearly the heart and soul of Atlantis, and it's really difficult to see Carter, Sheppard, McKay or anyone else being able to make up for their absence.

My problem is with Weir/Sheppard. Long held problems with the way they do not bother to take any responsibility. McKay had to take responsibility for his frak ups, from being slapped across the head to losing the trust of other characters. But even when Woolsey (?) came to Atlantis it was more of the same... Sheppard backing up Weir and Weir backing up Sheppard. It wasn't until the last episode that Weir admitted to making a mistake, that was way too late for me. It also seems clear that tptb couldn't see a way clear with Weir which is why IMHO the character was made reoccurring (well Torri's choice to not leave out right apparently). If it is broken you try and fix it, which is why I am hoping with no Carson and not much Weir that the Show can move forward and try and put the moral corruption behind them. I have huge doubts about that, and I know many don't see any moral question in what they did as it was The Wraith but I guess for me two wrongs do not make a right. You wouldn't get the go ahead on Earth to do those experiments on a dog never mind an intelligent being *even if that being is out to kill you*


As for the other well I would take the Pro stance to another thread as we are not going to agree on that, I see Weir's/Beckett's actions in Misbegotten as inexcusable, Sheppard's weren't much better.

[mcbarr]

Again, you have issues with TPTB and their writing (as do I, btw). The prob is, offing/replacing characters won't change anything... SGA characters will still screw up all the time. Carter will back up Sheppard, and Sheppard will back up Carter. McKay will blow up a solar system here and there. The new doc will pick up Carson's retrovirus research where he left off and so on.

[Killdeer]

I'm not up to debating your points about Misgotten, Willow'sCat, because I hated the episode too. Maybe I chose my words poorly when I said "emotional heart." What I meant was - I want this show to be more than a action/adventure psuedo-science flick, which is kind of what SG1 has turned into, and why I've lost interest. I want there to be character moments, emotional moments between the characters, and it seemed like Weir and Beckett, and sometimes Teyla, were usually the catalyst for those moments. Sheppard and McKay are not just going to have a scene together and start talking about how they feel, or Ronon either. That's not who they are. It's not a flaw, it's just not their character, not their position. They're military and science oriented, not people/feelings oriented. But Beckett and Weir, because of who they are, are in a position to connect on a more emotional level and pull those kind of deeper moments out, give us a sense of what's going on in Sheppard's head, or McKay's head, etc, and round out the team, rather than have everyone segregated in their own little universe.

This is not a moral judgement about their characters. I was more talking about the place they fill in the team, bringing out the personal side, rather than just being focused on the action, or the science, etc. Not that I'm opposed to action at all - but I want it to be well rounded. Taking away BOTH Weir and Beckett leaves a gap....there's no people person there to fill the space. Carter can't - she's scientific/military. Heightmeyer hasn't been developed enough to do it, and we only see her rarely, and I've seen nothing to indicate she's going to have a greater presence in the upcoming season. Keller is only going to be in eight episodes, and she's still finding her way. That puts the burden of adding the emotional, empathic side squarely on Teyla's shoulders, and Teyla is going to have her own issues this year.

TH said, and I'm quoting from her interview in Stargate Magazine:

"I think that is where the writers get frustrated with the actors because we are always up there going "Wait a minute! We just lost one of our guys! Can't it be referenced in the next episode?" Their modus operandi is 'No, this is part of a plot driven show and logistically, we don't know the order of how they will be airing.' I have an issue with that. There was an episode where a new doctor is introduced and I said, 'In this scene, please can I show some sadness? Can there be a beat of that?' And they didn't want to, and I think fans are very loyal to certain characters. I understand where they are coming from but I felt we were missing something, some level of emotion."

It makes me wonder if the reason for getting rid of Weir and Beckett was precisely that, to get rid of the emotional side of the show. If they want to focus on action and plot, Weir and Beckett would only slow them down, because their purpose is to show the human side, the emotional reaction. If the writers are trying to get rid of that, and make it a purely sci-fi action flick show....

I'm just speculating now. Just some thoughts.

[parisindy]

Well, it seems your real problem is with SGA management, not with the characters of Dr. Weir and Beckett. I have to disagree with you about the heart and soul part, though. Elizabeth Weir and Carson Beckett were clearly the heart and soul of Atlantis, and it's really difficult to see Carter, Sheppard, McKay or anyone else being able to make up for their absence.

agree 100%