The Anti Season 4 Thread (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONLY.

[Gregorius]

SG-1 set the tone.
[..]
It's a bit late, comparitively for the show to start a Buffy-style high turnover of characters, so it feels 'wrong'.

That's not the only reason, but I think there is a more serious point that results in people don't like and not accepting cast changes: It has no effect on the other characters and/or story.

Season 6 of SG-1 did it properly, and most people (Yes I know of the Daniel vs Jonas wars but from what I know of it they were minute yet very vocal parts of the fandom) accepted the change. Season 7 of SG-1 changed that, Frasier dies and one ep later no one cares about it, they've forgotten it. The same goes for Jonas. And Hammond and Jack, they've been completely forgotten and their departures have little to no effect at all on the other characters who remain static. And it is this that annoys a lot of people the most, the lack of effect on the others. Because, what's the use of killing of a character, except when an actor leaves, when it have no effect at all on the other characters. If TPTB were to fix this then people would be more likely to accept it.

This is why I think that people dislike the cast changes.

[Falcon Horus]

Well, I for one hate this fact where they send someone off/kill a person and the next episode everything is back to normal, as if this person never existed.

I truly hate it. It leaves a hole in the development of the story and the characters.

[nowvoyager908]

Well, I for one hate this fact where they send someone off/kill a person and the next episode everything is back to normal, as if this person never existed.

I truly hate it. It leaves a hole in the development of the story and the characters.

Not to mention the big hole it left in Carson Beckett. Oh well, lame, yes I know, but couldn't resist.

I don't understand how you kill someone off supposedly to "shake things up" and the death has no repercussions. I don't consider a few tears and a bagpipe serenade to be repercussions. Was Carson even mentioned in the episodes between Sunday and First Strike? Unless of course, shaking things up was just a code for "bringing in a pretty, young thing to keep the teenage boys properly focused". LOL.

[mcbarr]

Perhaphs Joe M. is neglecting the fact of how they're changing the cast and the way they're treating the characters which is pissing off people.

I know that I accept cast changes in Doctor Who, B5, Buffy, Angel, Heroes, Lost, The 4400, etc... so it seems that TPTB of Stargate must be doing something wrong then...

YES. but the thing is I think all those shows are SO much better than SGA, which I think is why I took the cast changes much better. Doctor Who, zomg my otp, they killed my otp and yet I still watched.

I think part of the issue is that many fans feel TPTB are making changes to Atlantis that are not only unnecessary, but will make it more like SG1. It's like TPTB are announcing to the world that they tried, they really tried, but they just can't do anything but SG1.

Now, with the parent out of the picture, they don't have to try anymore. So bye, bye Weir and Beckett. Hello Carter. Atlantis will now become season 11 of SG1. Okay, that may be a bit simplistic (not too much), but that seems to be the general message. LOL.

That's exactly what I think. I watched SGA for the characters and their chemistry because, let's face it, the plots have been far from groundbreaking. Anyway, I obviously didn't watch the show for TPTB. And now, three years later and half of the original cast gone, they decide to reboot the series by putting a long-time SG-1 character in charge of Atlantis to please diehard SG-1 fans under the pretext of "improving" SGA, like the show and its cast are suddenly not good enough or something now that things got serious for the franchise. Sorry, but the latest cast changes on SGA transcend the regular cast changes that occur on other shows. They reflect current PTB's distrust for the show, its cast, and possibly themselves as writers, which brings back what a fellow Anti once said that they're probably more Anti- than any of us.

Just thought I'd share. Feel free to use.

Spoiler:

Very funny!

[Falcon Horus]

Not to mention the big hole it left in Carson Beckett. Oh well, lame, yes I know, but couldn't resist.

I don't think there was enough left for there to be an actual hole.

I don't understand how you kill someone off supposedly to "shake things up" and the death has no repercussions. I don't consider a few tears and a bagpipe serenade to be repercussions. Was Carson even mentioned in the episodes between Sunday and First Strike? Unless of course, shaking things up was just a code for "bringing in a pretty, young thing to keep the teenage boys properly focused". LOL.

Beckett wasn't mentioned until Keller mentions him in First Strike, after which he is again completely forgotten.

[nowvoyager908]

That's exactly what I think. I watched SGA for the characters and their chemistry because, let's face it, the plots have been far from groundbreaking. Anyway, I obviously didn't watch the show for TPTB. And now, three years later and half of the original cast gone, they decide to reboot the series by putting a long-time SG-1 character in charge of Atlantis to please diehard SG-1 fans under the pretext of "improving" SGA, like the show and its cast are suddenly not good enough or something now that things got serious for the franchise. Sorry, but the latest cast changes on SGA transcend the regular cast changes that occur on other shows. They reflect current PTB's distrust for the show, its cast, and possibly themselves as writers, which brings back what a fellow Anti once said that they're probably more Anti- than any of us.


Very funny!

This is a great interpretation of what is happening.

The other thing I find interesting is that some fans are falling all over themselves to agree with one another that SGA needs help, the characters are poorly written and inconsistent, the writing is crap, etc., etc. And now that TPTB have only one show to concentrate on, things will be much better . . . and so on. (I wonder how those poor dears at CSI and Law & Order handle the back breaking load. )

Yet when I look at the episode reviews, everything is wonderful, great and awesome (I think I hate that word). All the episodes are 8/10 or 9/10 and even the hallowed 10/10. How is this possible? Am I missing some piece of the puzzle?

[mcbarr]

Yet when I look at the episode reviews, everything is wonderful, great and awesome (I think I hate that word). All the episodes are 8/10 or 9/10 and even the hallowed 10/10. How is this possible? Am I missing some piece of the puzzle?

Yeah, it's difficult to understand some folks. Were they sucking up to TPTB then, or now, or then and now? I choose the last option!

[Madeleine]

Yet when I look at the episode reviews, everything is wonderful, great and awesome (I think I hate that word). All the episodes are 8/10 or 9/10 and even the hallowed 10/10. How is this possible? Am I missing some piece of the puzzle?

which ep reviews are you looking at? The GW ones or just 'in general'?

[Skydiver]

internet polls are notoriously unreliable. anyone iwth time, an itchy mouse finger and the knowledge to toss thier cookies can vote to thier hearts content

How about worrying (and talking) less about other fen and just worrying about oneself?

[mcbarr]

Back on topic, I was just watching a Sci Fi trailer on SGA's season 4, and, in the trailer, they introduce Carter as the new commander of Atlantis, and then they show Sheppard saying "Can you believe this?" LOL, maybe Skiffy is Anti too...

[dllmzca]

**Pokes head in**

Hello? Is this where the doubters and skeptics meet?

Hi. My name is dllmzca and I, too, may well be an Anti...

I started with SG-1 when it premiered, but it never clicked for me. That, largely, was due to the fact that I didn't have any affinity for the leads (quite the opposite for certain team members) and I didn't like the heavy military aspect of the show.

I only started watching Atlantis as a loaner box-set from a family member, and I was skeptical. By the end of "Rising," though, I was intrigued. SGA had the same overall premise with a Stargate network and a powerful adversary but I loved how it wasn't a mainly military op. The makeup of the expedition appealed to me far more than in SG-1. I also really liked the characters & the chemistry between them. With a stronger ensemble cast, the whole thing had a bit of a DS9 groove going on, to me... and DS9 has to be my favourite sci-fi series. S1's premise of exploration both of the city itself and the Pegasus galaxy seemed to take the basic premise of the Stargate 'verse, give it a fresh start and build up some potential...

Unfortunately, in S2 & 3, I've seen SGA becoming more and more SG-1 in it's feel... capped, now, with the crossover of Carter and the OTT military slant from "First Strike." I also freely admit that I'm sad to see Wier end up being Forded and am deeply disappointed by Carson's death.

So, is there any more room on one of these couches? Fair warning, though...

Spoiler:

that I'll stilll be following the series at least until I see how they return Beckett. I have the feeling that I might be able to continue with the show if Beckett's return isn't just another Fording-in-the-works.

EDITED WITH APOLOGIES FOR POTENTIALLY SPOILING.

[mcbarr]

Quoting ToasterOnFire:

Everyone is welcome on the couch! It doesn't matter if you have a big complaint or a little one or whether you're excited about certain things or are upset with everything. There is no "you must be THIS MUCH 'anti' to post in this thread" sign. Got a gripe, any gripe? Pull up some upholstery and gab about it.

If people thought they were going to love s4, watch it, and end up having complaints then they're always welcome on the couch.

If people watch s4 and end up liking it, well then we can always wave fondly from the couch and reminisce about the good times.

And if people watch s4 and it fills all their pessimistic expectations then we'll have a nice long time here. I recommend margaritas - it inspires MST3K-like snarking of any unbearable episode.

So welcome and feel free to rant!

[eyecandylovr]

I also freely admit that I'm sad to see Wier end up being Forded and am deeply disappointed by Carson's death.

So, is there any more room on one of these couches? Fair warning, though, that I'll stilll be following the series at least until I see how they return Beckett. I have the feeling that I might be able to continue with the show if Beckett's return isn't just another Fording-in-the-works.

I haven't heard anything about Carson coming back, except the lame and pointless you-can-always-come-back-from-the-dead-in-scifi line from PTB. (or did I miss something?)

And they did so well with bringing Ford back, didn't they?

Looking back now, I'm kinda mad at myself for not seeing the handwriting on the wall sooner. Grodin, Ford, Beckett, now Weir; helloooo, some of us don't love watching heads roll all the time!

And PTB proved conclusively in SG1 that they can't do ship to save their lives. What happened to Jack? Why would Vala stay in the same room with Daniel after the vicious (and uncharacteristic) stuff he said to her, let alone sleep with him? It wasn't quite a rape victim falling in love with her abuser, but not much more realistic. Then, finally, a canon ship, and D/V forget it before the end of the ep. And there was less friendship between Cam/Sam after 50 years on a ship together than Sam/Thor. Huh?

I give up. It doesn't matter what PTB say, they have no idea how to write living, breathing relationships (and I don't just mean romantic ones). I have every intention of finding something better to spend my time on as soon as I finish with my anti-chocolate mmm, try it with the anti-popcorn!

[JesterDala]

While I'm optimistically tip-toeing around S4 of Atlantis, I have to say that my first impressions are distinctly Anti.

I understand the idea of moving Carter over to Atlantis. It's just smart business on their part with the whole AT contract thing. However, placing her in command of the expedition is simply baffling to me. Having a military leader in command, no matter how much 'scientist' she has coursing through her veins, is taking a workable idea from SG-1 and making a carbon copy. It worked with the first series, but SGA is it own entity and doesn't deserve this handling.

TPTB are jerking this show around so much, changing the basic dynamics of the show so completely, I'm surprised it hasn't been renamed and recast comepletely. Though they're well on their way...

[eyecandylovr]

I understand the idea of moving Carter over to Atlantis. It's just smart business on their part with the whole contract thing.

I'm not convinced it would have been any harder to do the same thing with AT's contract that they obviously did with CJ and MS. Doesn't pass the smell test. Sounds like PTB bulls*** used for cover. Or did you think their lawyers never considered the possibility that the show would be cancelled? Of course all those contracts have contingencies. You don't re-cast a show for such a lame reason. And what about TH's contract?