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The Anti Season 4 Thread (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONLY.

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    Originally posted by Luz View Post
    LOL, I can say whatever I want to say about that idiot O'neill because it is my opinion, he was a dumbass, had a character like him been on SGA I wouldn't even have started watching (in fact I used to skip his parts whenever he was in an episode), and I'll never understand how people can worship a useless jackass like O'neill, but different strokes I guess.
    Because the "jackass" O'Neill is brilliant when it comes to battle and he's levelheaded in those situations. Sheppard on the other hand is downright cocky and as a consequence makes mistakes that result in either capture, losses or retreat.

    You might not like the character of O'Neill but a a commander he's superior to Sheppard.
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      Originally posted by Anuna View Post
      I know it's kinda OT but I agree, without O'Neill SG - 1 wouldn't be what it was (and in early seasons it was pure gold.) And to connect this with the topic of this thread - it's a shame that Atlantis doesn't have someone like RDA/O'Neill. McKay can't fill those shoes and neither can Sheppard, as much as I like him.
      I'd take Sheppard anytime over O'Neill, I love Atlantis characters not SG-1 ones. Never particularly liked "MacGyver". I can't believe he's sort of huge in the Stargate franchise. It's probably a sin to say such a thing on a Stargate forum but here it is. lol
      Torri Higginson: "Elizabeth had a mad crush on Sheppard."
      at Halfway Con - Sparktastic weekend with Joe and Torri, on October 30, 2011

      R.I.P. Stargate Atlantis (S1-S3)

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        Originally posted by Anuna View Post
        And I'll add, the characters are either bipolar or suffer from multiple personalities...
        Not to mention uncurable arrogance and optimism. Both are very deadly in combat since the arrogant won't listen and the optimists keep listening to them despite better judgement.
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          Originally posted by Gregorius View Post
          Because the "jackass" O'Neill is brilliant when it comes to battle and he's levelheaded in those situations. Sheppard on the other hand is downright cocky and as a consequence makes mistakes that result in either capture, losses or retreat.

          You might not like the character of O'Neill but a a commander he's superior to Sheppard.
          Not the way I see it, he was always more worried about cracking his dumb little jokes than doing his job, I was too distracted by his idiot act, and remembering the movie where O'neill was that badass military guy who I could take seriously, to pay attention to anything else he was doing.

          In a nutshell his idiotic behavior was too distracting.

          You may think he was brilliant, but I still wonder how such a dimwit as him could be put in charge first of the SG1 and later the SGC.

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            Originally posted by Luz View Post
            Not the way I see it, he was always more worried about cracking his dumb little jokes than doing his job, I was too distracted by his idiot act, and remembering the movie where O'neill was that badass military guy who I could take seriously, to pay attention to anything else he was doing.
            To everyone their opinion. I saw that jokes as his way of making the other feel more secure especially in a tight spot (If someone can make jokes then it isn't so bad and we can get out of here). Not to mention that it's an excellent technique of unnerving your enemies, especially ones that have delussions of godhood.

            You might think he was brilliant, but I still wonder how such a dimwit as him could be put in charge first of the SG1 and later the SGC.
            As I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I for one wonder why Sheppard got his promotion while he should've been reprimanded for his disregard for following the rules and being a general hazard to base security.
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              Originally posted by Gregorius View Post
              The actors are great and they're doing nothing wrong. The writers on the other hand need to get together and decide on what to do with the characters since the characters seem to be extremely unstable - one week borderline sociopathic, the other hyperactive - and thus lack consistency. And they need to appoint a showrunner from outside Bridge who has a fresh perspective on things and tells them that rehasing SG-1 plots isn't the way to go.
              So true. And the actors are the ones being laid off instead of the incompetent writers. *sigh*
              Torri Higginson: "Elizabeth had a mad crush on Sheppard."
              at Halfway Con - Sparktastic weekend with Joe and Torri, on October 30, 2011

              R.I.P. Stargate Atlantis (S1-S3)

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                Originally posted by Gregorius View Post
                It really is a shame the writers seem to have ignored this little piece of reality and decided that Sheppard can do whatever he wants without consequences. I would love to see an episode dealing with that, Sheppard having to deal with the enemy invading Atlantis because he went out, got captured and thus his codes were stolen by the enemy.
                I guess they (the writers) should have given him a role/place like one William Adama of BSG has. he is the strategist but doesn't leave for combat (at least in part of the show I've seen). Yet he is very important for the entire plot. i don't think SGA writers could pull that off - place in a center a character that stays on base. I guess that's the reason why Weir's character suffered so much.

                And yes, an episode where Shep has to pay for the consequences of his bad temper would be great. I like the character - and I like his stubborness and his other flaws - I wish those were used in a plot!

                Originally posted by Luz View Post
                You might want to see the post I was replying to, why is it such a crime to not like O'neill? I shouldn't DARE? I hate that O'neill jackass.

                I've seen worse terms used in relations to Sheppard but when it's about O'neill then suddenly it's disrespectful? is he untouchable?
                I saw that post and what i replied to wasn't your opinion but the tone of your statement. Nobody is untouchable, yet there are rules of polite criticism. Okay, you think O'Neill is stupid. I respect your opinion, but I disagree. (strongly) Do you have any arguments to prove your point?

                Originally posted by Celcool View Post
                I'd take Sheppard anytime over O'Neill, I love Atlantis characters not SG-1 ones. Never particularly liked "MacGyver". I can't believe he's sort of huge in the Stargate franchise. It's probably a sin to say such a thing on a Stargate forum but here it is. lol
                And here goes a polite way of saying you don't agree. Now while I prefer Sheppard and like him better than O'Neill, I still think O'Neill is more experienced and a batter commanding officer.
                Last edited by Anuna; 25 December 2007, 03:10 PM. Reason: typo!
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                  Originally posted by Celcool View Post
                  So true. And the actors are the ones being laid off instead of the incompetent writers. *sigh*
                  And that is the precise reason why this show is sinking... gosh it has an appropriate name.
                  I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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                    Fallen-one, if you should return, you will have to understand that we all have different opinions, and we can defend those as much as wel like. Which means Luz is entitled to hate O'Neill all she likes.

                    I agree it's slightly off-topic but it was in relation to Sheppard, so I guess it was semi on-topic.

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                      Exactly what I said, FH. We have different oppinions but there are rules how to express them.
                      I'm not weird, I'm limited edition.

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                        Originally posted by Celcool View Post
                        So true. And the actors are the ones being laid off instead of the incompetent writers. *sigh*
                        They took two characters I loved (in the movie) and wrote them in a way that made it impossible for me to like them. Jackson was okay at first, geeky, adorable (although, where did his allergies go?), but the moment they made him into this super soldier they lost me.

                        And don't get me started with O'neill, he was supposed to be angsty, snarky, gong-ho, kickass, no nonsense, and instead he was that other person I could never take seriously. Maybe my problem with SG1 was that I liked the movie too much and expected too much of the series and it never delivered.

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                          Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                          I guess they (the writers) should have given him a role/place like one William Adama of BSG has. he is the strategist but doesn't leave for combat (at least in part of the show I've seen). Yet he is very important for the entire plot. i don't think SGA writers could pull that off - place in a center a character that stays on base. I guess that's the reason why Weir's character suffered so much.

                          And yes, an episode where Shep has to pay for the consequences of his bad temper would be great. I like the character - and I like his stubborness and his other flaws - I wish those were used in a plot!



                          I saw that post and what i replied to wasn't your opinion but the tone of your statement. Nobody is untouchable, yet there are rules of polite criticism. Okay, you think O'Neill is stupid. I respect your opinion, but I disagree. (strongly) Do you have any arguments to prove your point?



                          And here goes a polite way of saying you don't agree. Now while I prefer Sheppard and like him better than O'Neill, I still think O'Neill is more experienced and a batter commanding officer.
                          All up to the writers again, how they write those characters. You can't use experience as an argument because it's not the character's fault Atlantis has only had 3 seasons (to me, there are 3 seasons) and SG-1 10.
                          Torri Higginson: "Elizabeth had a mad crush on Sheppard."
                          at Halfway Con - Sparktastic weekend with Joe and Torri, on October 30, 2011

                          R.I.P. Stargate Atlantis (S1-S3)

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                            Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                            I guess they (the writers) should have given him a role/place like one William Adama of BSG has. he is the strategist but doesn't leave for combat (at least in part of the show I've seen). Yet he is very important for the entire plot. i don't think SGA writers could pull that off - place in a center a character that stays on base. I guess that's the reason why Weir's character suffered so much.
                            Weir, and indirectly the other characters, suffered because the writers refused to let go of their SG-1 one team exploration theme. Perhaps it was a lack of courage of a "We know what to do with this" decision, fact it that the show suffered from it since had they gone for a completely different format they would've needed to write new stories instead of rehasing SG-1 plots.

                            In my idea of Atlantis Sheppard would've been bound to base, against his will but he comes to accept it (Read as: He would try and micromanage the teams for a few episodes until he discovers that it's actually causing a lot of trouble since he doesn't have the most recent information), with McKay being, as head scientist, on Atlantis exploring the place and reporting back to Weir. Ford, and perhaps Lorne, would be the squad leaders and accompany Teyla to get friendly with the locals. Eventually, of course, the military will settle on the Alpha site since it's a lot less risky to have that one compromised.

                            We'd see Sheppard plan the missions with Ford and Lorne, and then see those two execute it. In case of an emergency we'll see Sheppard and either Ford or Lorne or someone else work on a rescue plan.

                            Weir on Atlantis would have her own problems as Rodney, Grodin and Zelenka need to learn Ancient, both don't have the gene (Perhaps Zelenka would have ) and constantly bother her with asking for redeployment of the generators so they can work on some new section they discovered. While they're doing this we learn things about the Ancient, about the city and about the character and their personalities while having to deal with thinks accidentally breaking because they made a mistake.

                            This way you don't have to involve every character every episode (I really dislike this and I'd much rather have them focus a few episodes on the military and then a few on the exploration. Perhaps a few episodes where both camps completely screw up and have to deal with it), have season long arc and can start building tension between the civilian part and the military part of the expedition.
                            Signed,

                            Gregorius
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                              Originally posted by Celcool View Post
                              All up to the writers again, how they write those characters. You can't use experience as an argument because it's not the character's fault Atlantis has only had 3 seasons (to me, there are 3 seasons) and SG-1 10.
                              IMO it's not only the writing. O'Neill has the backstory and he is older than Sheppard. He isn't as impulsive as John, and he is a better strategist - gioven the outcomes of his decisions when in field and otherwise. I know you prefer John - I do too - but the fact is - O'Neill is less hot headed than John. I'm not using my viewer's experience as an argument, I'm using the pesky thing known as canon.
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                                I wish TPTB had written Shep as a little less smug/rebel/quippy/ladykiller and a little more serious, such as exploring this excessive dedication/suicide wish regarding his team. I get the feeling that TPTB didn't really know how to develop Shep so they stuck with superficial, easy to write things like snark, wild hair, and women having the hots for him. Thanks to that, I've had little interest in Shep outside of his confession to Teyla in Sateda.

                                Originally posted by Gregorius View Post
                                Weir, and indirectly the other characters, suffered because the writers refused to let go of their SG-1 one team exploration theme. Perhaps it was a lack of courage of a "We know what to do with this" decision, fact it that the show suffered from it since had they gone for a completely different format they would've needed to write new stories instead of rehasing SG-1 plots.
                                Totally. Weir was second in the credits, so of course one would assume she'd have decent screentime and development. And since she wasn't on the team, it appeared that TPTB would devote more time to non-team characters than what was done with SG1. But as the seasons went on, it became obvious that they were more interested in safe team stories and Weir turned more and more into Hammond, who wasn't even in the main credits on SG1.

                                I think Weir also suffered because she was a peacemaker and a diplomat first and foremost, and TPTB haven't shown much interest/ability in writing for those sorts of situations. McKay and Shep snark and Ronon and Teyla blowing or beating stuff up appears to be far more appealing to them.

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