The Anti Season 4 Thread (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONLY.

[partly cloudy skies]

David Nykl was in about 7 episodes in Season 1, 10 in Season 2 and 12 in Season 3. I love the character of Zelenka but we have to acknowledge that he is a recurring character and will not be in all the eps.
So don't write Zelenka off just yet!

Yes, but AT is also being touted as a recurring character; so far, she is everywhere. On SG-1 Hammond and Janet were recurring characters too. Should I be equating Zelenka at this point with a recurring character like Martouf or Jacob, where they only appear a couple of times?

I wouldn't write him off yet, but it is my opinion if he is blogging that his Stargate experiences for the summer have been pretty scanty, and he is comparing this to his own previous work on the show, then I have to feel somewhat concerned.

[borgprincess]

Yes, but AT is also being touted as a recurring character; so far, she is everywhere. On SG-1 Hammond and Janet were recurring characters too. Should I be equating Zelenka at this point with a recurring character like Martouf or Jacob, where they only appear a couple of times?

Good point. Maybe she's more accurately described as a 'semi-regular'. I loved Janet, and if only she'd been Carter's version of recurring! Come to think of it, same with Weir.

[SMB_BOOKS]

Just wanted to pop on and offer a hearty "I second that!" to those who have been talking about character interaction vs. plot.

Granted, in a perfect show you've got a perfect blend of both and both your character interactions/development and your plot/storyline knock the socks off of everyone. Hunts around for those darn anti socks again....

I barely watched SG1. Loved the original Stargate movie, caught SG-1 only occasionally as I was flipping channels more than anything else.

Then, SGA came along. I watched one epsisode and I was HOOKED! Sure the storyline got me, but when I really honestly look at it - it was the characters that drew me in. They made me care about them, dammit. I wanted to see them every week. I wanted to cheer for them when they saved the day, worry about them when they were in trouble and hope for them when things looked their gloomiest.

I really think that's why I'm not looking forward to a lot of S4. TPTB messed my team dynamic. They killed off Carson (oh wait, he'll be back for 2 episodes) and they've reduced Weir to the point of below recurring.

Weir was by far, the character I was most intrigued by and thought had the most potential. Pretty hard to develop that potential if the person is, for all intents and purposes almost non-existent in the season. Granted, I haven't seen the first two eppies yet - sounds like Torri's got some actual "meat" in those two eppies, sure wish they could have found a different way to give her character some development that didn't involve such a reduced episode count.

If they can say other characters are recurring and they've got 10+ episodes, wouldn't 4 be more like residual than recurring?

GRRRRRRRRRRRR......

[borgprincess]

Just wanted to pop on and offer a hearty "I second that!" to those who have been talking about character interaction vs. plot.

Granted, in a perfect show you've got a perfect blend of both and both your character interactions/development and your plot/storyline knock the socks off of everyone. Hunts around for those darn anti socks again....

Then, SGA came along. I watched one epsisode and I was HOOKED! Sure the storyline got me, but when I really honestly look at it - it was the characters that drew me in. They made me care about them, dammit. I wanted to see them every week. I wanted to cheer for them when they saved the day, worry about them when they were in trouble and hope for them when things looked their gloomiest.

I really think that's why I'm not looking forward to a lot of S4. TPTB messed my team dynamic. They killed off Carson (oh wait, he'll be back for 2 episodes) and they've reduced Weir to the point of below recurring.

Weir was by far, the character I was most intrigued by and thought had the most potential. Pretty hard to develop that potential if the person is, for all intents and purposes almost non-existent in the season.

*gasps* Same-wavelength squee!

I'm sometimes unsure whether people think it's weird/shallow or lacks integrity to watch a show for characters as opposed to plot, since I will watch the silliest/least plausible shows/movies if there's a character I care about. I know some people find it boring to have characters consistently safe and sound and prevailing against the most dire circumstances...but...I got used to the dynamic in SG-1 where no one ever died for good. I was still tense and intrigued in situations where they were facing vastly superior forces, and sighed with relief when they made it back safe. I wasn't bored by it at all. So I agree, s4 messes up my preferred 'team safety' dynamic back when they killed off Carson and then when they Fordified Weir. The writers say they want to increase the sense of jeopardy so fans will be going 'who will it be next?' but I don't find the show any more appealing for that, quite the opposite.

[kimaken]

*gasps* Same-wavelength squee!
The writers say they want to increase the sense of jeopardy so fans will be going 'who will it be next?' but I don't find the show any more appealing for that, quite the opposite.

Exactly! Besides, we already know that 'who will it be next?' will always be one of the supporting characters, even if they are in the main credits (see Ford, Beckett, Weir), despite the fact that's it's always Sheppard and McKay who are always front and center for all the danger, intrigue, and whumpage to be had, yet nothing ever seems to happen in a permanent way to either of them!

Oh well, I'm so anti-S4 right now that I don't care who'll be offed next after Weir leaves. I'm trying to be optimistic about my beloved Carson returning for 2 eps, but I'm also worried about how they'll bring him back--perhaps he'll come back unlikeable, sans sexy accent, or even wraithified (or is that Fordified?), which would ruin the character for me. It'd be my luck that if he comes back as the same dear, sweet, human Carson he's always been, the writers will only kill him off--again.

[Uber]

Yes, but AT is also being touted as a recurring character; so far, she is everywhere. On SG-1 Hammond and Janet were recurring characters too. Should I be equating Zelenka at this point with a recurring character like Martouf or Jacob, where they only appear a couple of times?

Actually, the fans suggested she might be recurring but none of TPTB have ever used that word in conjunction with her role.

I wouldn't write him off yet, but it is my opinion if he is blogging that his Stargate experiences for the summer have been pretty scanty, and he is comparing this to his own previous work on the show, then I have to feel somewhat concerned.

Yeah I know I asked JM awhile back about Radek because he is one of my faves. My sense about what'll happen is that there will be at least one episode that is fairly Zelenka-heavy and then a few where he contributes but is more of a supporting character.

I hope that we get more than just a scant handful of eps with Radek in them.

[ToasterOnFire]

Another thing I'm going to be watching for with Carter is whether or not she adds something to SGA that Weir couldn't. And I'm not going to excuse TPTB's iffy writing of Weir in the past either. If Carter brings a sense of authority then there's no reason they couldn't write Weir exerting her authority over Shep and McKay more often. If Carter brings new storylines then there's no reason they couldn't write Weir having more to do around the city. And the whole thing with Carter being needed because they need to militarize Atlantis, well I haven't seen that burning need in the first few episodes of s4, certainly not more than what has been there since Atlantis regained contact with Earth in the beginning of s2. Why is it urgently necessary now?

Same thing with Keller too - what is she going to add to SGA that Carson couldn't?

And I think the same thing of Ronon. TPTB could have easily written Ronon's "angry, rage-prone, mistrusting but sensitive deep down" characteristics into the wraithified Ford instead. No casting change required.

[Pitry]

I thought I'd be able to hold this bit off for the actual Adrift episode thread, but I've been writing something on another thread and now I just need to get it out.
Spoilers for Adrift and Lifeline.

Spoiler:

Both TPTB hinted and Paul McGillion said outright that the reason they killed off Beckett - and by extention Weir - was because of the very strong hints from SciFi that if they don't make a major shake-up to Atlantis, they won't get another season.
What they seem to fail to understand is that changing the characters from one unflashed character to the other - or, in Weir and Beckett's place, from two of the most flashed out, well-written characters - isn't going to change anything, if the writing doesn't change. They had a chance to make something completely different with Adrift and Lifeline. Start over. Experiment. Change. They chose to re-write No Man's Land and Misbegotten, which were in their time a re-write of The Siege. They were, essentially, ticking off box after box in the "the way a Stargate Atlantis season premiere should be" list.
They had a chance to capture the audience's curiosity. Seaosn premieres get higher ratings, I should think, because people tune in to see if they did something new and exciting, or it's the same-old-same-old. If it's the same-old, I guess, they tune out. Damnit, I felt like tuning out. And I've been watching Stargate religiously since season 1 aired.
Killing off characters is superficial change unless they actually do soemthing with it - which, considering the way Carson was barely mentinoed at the end of season 3 and the way Weir was written out is probably not going to happen. and if they think they can churn out the same script time after time and still get the "shake off" they were asked to deliver, then they're simply mistaken.

And lo and behold, Pitry is so frustrated she finds herself writing an anti post in an anti thread.
The world is coming to an end.

[Falcon Horus]

I can see it now:

CARTER (standing at the balcony, staring out to the distant horizon)
O Rodney, Rodney! wherefore art thou Rodney?
Deny that you are smarter than me and and bow to my
wonderfulness at every turn;
Or, if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love,
And I'll no longer be called a Mary Sue.

RODNEY (lurking on the lower level within earshot, looking for a doughnut)
[Aside] Shall I hear more, or shall I speak at this?

(Speaks loudly, scaring the crap out of poor Carter)

I take thee at thy word, fair Samantha:
Call me but love, and I'll be new baptized;
Henceforth I never will be Rodney.
I will be named the very dirt beneath your feet.

And they lived happily ever after.

The End.

Frak me dead, I can't green you!! This deserves SUPERGREEN!!

Exactly! Besides, we already know that 'who will it be next?' will always be one of the supporting characters, even if they are in the main credits (see Ford, Beckett, Weir), despite the fact that's it's always Sheppard and McKay who are always front and center for all the danger, intrigue, and whumpage to be had, yet nothing ever seems to happen in a permanent way to either of them!

My money's on Teyla/Rachel to end on the chopping block next...

And lo and behold, Pitry is so frustrated she finds herself writing an anti post in an anti thread.
The world is coming to an end.

*offers an anti-hug*

[Falcon Horus]

My answer to all the Carter-banners... Well, not really, I still have to create an Elizabeth one but here's something else first...

Thank you to Suz for the little Anti-rhyme.

[borgprincess]

Exactly! Besides, we already know that 'who will it be next?' will always be one of the supporting characters, even if they are in the main credits (see Ford, Beckett, Weir), despite the fact that's it's always Sheppard and McKay who are always front and center for all the danger, intrigue, and whumpage to be had, yet nothing ever seems to happen in a permanent way to either of them!

Oh well, I'm so anti-S4 right now that I don't care who'll be offed next after Weir leaves. I'm trying to be optimistic about my beloved Carson returning for 2 eps, but I'm also worried about how they'll bring him back--perhaps he'll come back unlikeable, sans sexy accent, or even wraithified (or is that Fordified?), which would ruin the character for me. It'd be my luck that if he comes back as the same dear, sweet, human Carson he's always been, the writers will only kill him off--again.

Oh, well as for Carson:

Spoiler:

JM said that there wouldn't be any tricks, it wouldn't be a hologram or a possessed!Carson or spirit or anything, it would be Carson in the flesh. Which...how? *baffled* But I'm not sure how this helps Carson fans because they'll only kill him off again. OR NOT because JM said they were leaving a loophole for him to possibly return in s5. Which...*wibbles* what about Weir?

[PG15]

Yeah I know I asked JM awhile back about Radek because he is one of my faves. My sense about what'll happen is that there will be at least one episode that is fairly Zelenka-heavy and then a few where he contributes but is more of a supporting character.

I hope that we get more than just a scant handful of eps with Radek in them.

Never dreamed I'd be posting info here in the Anti thread, but here goes:

Morjana writes: “Would you happen to know how many episodes Dr. Z will be in this year?”

Answer: Sorry, I don’t have the exact episode count. However, episode count aside, Zelenka will be featured more this season than any other.

http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/2...r-18-2007.html

Draw your own conclusions.

[Ruined_puzzle]

Well he has already been in Adrift and Lifeline so probably the first half and then bye bye Zelenka till next season. LOL.

[Celcool]

I am so in agreement with you on this. I'm one of those viewers that tends to connect with the characters. I don't care how good the action is, if I don't care about the characters, everything else is meaningless.

Same here! I totally watch TV shows for the characters, never only for the plots. I like a show if I connect to the characters otherwise I don't care how great it's supposed to be, what others say and how much they love it. A good plot, great writing is an added bonus, if that's present then I can enjoy a show even more, on every level, even better! The show is over for me when a character I love leaves. Thankfully that only happened once, now with SGA, only this TPTB are that stupid to get rid of a lead character.

I watched SGA for the characters first, I was never that impressed with the storylines (technobabble? oh please) because I'm not that into scifi really but I did love them enough when the characters I loved were hugely present in them or even a little. As has already been said, it's all in the character interaction. It's even better when there's a shippy interaction to look forward to. *g*

Just wanted to pop on and offer a hearty "I second that!" to those who have been talking about character interaction vs. plot.

Granted, in a perfect show you've got a perfect blend of both and both your character interactions/development and your plot/storyline knock the socks off of everyone. Hunts around for those darn anti socks again....

I barely watched SG1. Loved the original Stargate movie, caught SG-1 only occasionally as I was flipping channels more than anything else.

Then, SGA came along. I watched one epsisode and I was HOOKED! Sure the storyline got me, but when I really honestly look at it - it was the characters that drew me in. They made me care about them, dammit. I wanted to see them every week. I wanted to cheer for them when they saved the day, worry about them when they were in trouble and hope for them when things looked their gloomiest.

I really think that's why I'm not looking forward to a lot of S4. TPTB messed my team dynamic. They killed off Carson (oh wait, he'll be back for 2 episodes) and they've reduced Weir to the point of below recurring.

Weir was by far, the character I was most intrigued by and thought had the most potential. Pretty hard to develop that potential if the person is, for all intents and purposes almost non-existent in the season. Granted, I haven't seen the first two eppies yet - sounds like Torri's got some actual "meat" in those two eppies, sure wish they could have found a different way to give her character some development that didn't involve such a reduced episode count.

If they can say other characters are recurring and they've got 10+ episodes, wouldn't 4 be more like residual than recurring?

GRRRRRRRRRRRR......

Same here! Seems the character-loving fans are on the losing end here.

[Suzotchka]

My answer to all the Carter-banners... Well, not really, I still have to create an Elizabeth one but here's something else first...

Thank you to Suz for the little Anti-rhyme.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...nti_banner.jpg

AWESOME Banner!!!