The Anti Season 4 Thread (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONLY.

[Celcool]

Heh, that sounds familiar.

"Oh, it isn't OUR fault that we wrote in CB's pregnancy, that was skiffy's idea."
"Oh, it isn't OUR fault that we added a SG1 character to Atlantis, that was skiffy's idea." (This hasn't been stated outright yet, but give it time )
"Oh, it isn't OUR fault that SG1 was canceled, that was because of skiffy's poor promotion of the show."

Joe M. has even expanded the last statement to Atlantis, commenting that the success or failure of s4 rests almost squarely on the amount of promotion the show gets from skiffy. No comment whatsoever on whether s4 is written well or whether fans decide to stick around after all the changes. So if s4 is a success they can pat themselves on the back and take the credit, but if ratings tank (and looking at the trend for BSG I believe that's what will happen) then they can pull out the skiffy scapegoat. Bad network! Bad!


"Question 5: You don't really like the character of Dr. Elizabeth Weir, do you?"

LOL Brilliant! That was the question, I'm sure of it. lol

Thanks Celcool! Didn't mean to rant and one thing I should point out about Focus groups is that they can be useful but it depends how you use them. If these focus groups were balanced carefully between age, gender, socio economic group etc then yes they can give good data. My understanding though is that media marketing tends to be the first hundred people they pull off the street, answer the ad, speak on the phone etc; I would be interested to hear what sort of Focus Group it was they used.

You two should post your views on JM's blog.

[mcbarr]

"Question 5: You don't really like the character of Dr. Elizabeth Weir, do you?"

Ha, ha! Yeah, that's it!

"Question 6: You prefer an extremely hot babe in a doctor outfit to poor old Carson Beckett, don' you? Don't you!!!"

Hmm, I wonder if they used focus groups to hire the "new" actors.

[ShadowMaat]

"Question 5: You don't really like the character of Dr. Elizabeth Weir, do you?"

* Yes
* No
* Undecided

VERY well-worded question, BTW, especially since Yes can mean "Yes, you're right," No can mean "No, I don't like her" and Undecided means "I haven't decided how much I hate her."

[Celcool]

You guys crack me up!

[Arica12]

One of the things that has me most worried about Season 4 (and as a former marketing professional has had my jaw hitting the floor on a number of occassions) is the way in which the publicity for Atlantis is being handled, or not handled I should say.
It's like they have given up. From Joe Mallozzi's lemming post to the latest interview in SciFi it seems that they have lost the ability to control the flow of stories; and to react to the changing mood of their market. Speaking from a purely professional point of view in the SciFi interview they should have attempted conciliation not a tough stance.
And as for their reaction to the Save Carson Beckett Campaign! Now don't get me wrong I adore Beckett and the SCB campaign group and want them to succeed (and I personally probably won't be watching again until they do) but I would like to know where they (TPTB) think it's going to end. I see two results, First the campaign wins and Beckett is restored in which case there will be comments about who controls things, what influence the fans have and will set off other campaign groups. The second result is that they ignore the campaign and we never see beckett again in which case it will be even worse with fans being able to claim they've been ignored, that they don't care what the fans think. TBTB will look even worse than they do now - and given the air of expectation they themselves are creating with fans and the media I don't see how they can avoid bringing him back. Either way TPTB are not going to come out of this looking good.
To me this all smacks of a crisis, that they are not acting any more but reacting and i think that it means either they've given up completely or they genuinely don't have a clue what to do next.
Phew I've been ranting again (and trust me I could fill a few more pages with my response to the handling of the marketing of Atlantis) and i hope it all makes sense but suffice to say I think chaos off screen leads to chaos on screen

[ToasterOnFire]

You two should post your views on JM's blog.

Thanks, but I've given up on Joe M's blog. It's devolved into fandom infighting between fans who are really upset with the show and TPTB and fans who like to point and laugh at them. And the whole time Joe is standing over everyone and chuckling at how he took some of the heat off TPTB by encouraging the fans to fight amongst themselves.

* Yes
* No
* Undecided

VERY well-worded question, BTW, especially since Yes can mean "Yes, you're right," No can mean "No, I don't like her" and Undecided means "I haven't decided how much I hate her."

HA! I didn't even consider multiple choice only answers! That would make things a lot easier to skew.

[mcbarr]

Thanks, but I've given up on Joe M's blog. It's devolved into fandom infighting between fans who are really upset with the show and TPTB and fans who like to point and laugh at them. And the whole time Joe is standing over everyone and chuckling at how he took some of the heat off TPTB by encouraging the fans to fight amongst themselves.

That's really the worst thing TPTB could have done 'cause when things get too polarized (Weir fans vs. Carter fans, per instance), you can be certain that the neglected side will stop watching the show.

[FoolishPleasure]

I still think moving Carter to SGA had more to do with Skiffy than TPTB at Bridge. If I remember correctly, the Village Idiot Mark Stern was the first to come out and say "some" characters from SG1 may be moving to SGA.

Something was in the works with Carter long ago though, starting with Ben Browder going to SG1. IMO, the plan was to move Carter to SGA and then they BOTH would be leaders. Unfortunately the "Carter in 10 episodes of SGA" exploded in fan fury last year, and Carter ended up in only, what was it. . two episodes? Now they figure if two characters get offed, then fans will open their arms to Carter, but it still isn't working as well as they hoped.

I do feel for Amanda, who is stuck in the middle. I'm sure she wants to move on with "Sanctuary" and other projects.

[Celcool]

And poor Torri is the victim of all these games they're playing.

Unfortunately the "Carter in 10 episodes of SGA" exploded in fan fury last year, and Carter ended up in only, what was it. . two episodes? Now they figure if two characters get offed, then fans will open their arms to Carter, but it still isn't working as well as they hoped.

Why would they think things would change if they offed 2 much-loved characters? It's even worse! Their stupid decisions... *shakes her head*

[FoolishPleasure]

Why would they think things would change if they offed 2 much-loved characters? It's even worse! Their stupid decisions... *shakes her head*

Mallozzi has admitted to not watching the show on TV. After working on it day after day, they all get sick of it. I've read where some of the others. . even some actors, don't watch the final product on TV. So, they aren't seeing or feeling what the television audience is getting. Sorta like not seeing the forest through the trees. They truly don't know what all the fuss is about.

[Celcool]

That is just sad. Yes, I've read that on his blog. *sigh*

[Falcon Horus]

You guys crack me up!

Totally second that.

Mallozzi has admitted to not watching the show on TV. After working on it day after day, they all get sick of it. I've read where some of the others. . even some actors, don't watch the final product on TV. So, they aren't seeing or feeling what the television audience is getting. Sorta like not seeing the forest through the trees. They truly don't know what all the fuss is about.

Maybe he should give it a shot, because watching it in script-form and seeing the end-product isn't just the same.
That actors don't watch a show they're in, I can understand. Maybe they will start to over-analize why they played a certain scene the way they did. It would probably drive them insane (if TPTB don't already do that of course).

[Easter Lily]

If anything, the "focus groups" may translate to the "Market research" that Mallozzi has mentioned on his blog. That supposedly showed that Atlantis skewed heavily to a male demographic--and presto bango, we suddenly no longer have a believable and well-characterized mature male doctor, but a hawt young thang who, capable as she is as an actress, is in no way believable as a CMO. But hey, she is perky in all the right spots and therefore supposedly appealing to all those male viewers. (None of the males in that demographic in my house are interested, though. They all liked Carson better--or think the show jumped the shark back in Season 2.)

Of course, I'm the one in my house who buys all the tie-in merchandise, Season Companions and whatnot. Go figure that one out, M&M and Co.

I have heard the young, male demographic rationale used as an explaination for all kinds of odd production decisions. I don't buy it. The only Stargate convention I've been able to get to, contradicted even my own cherished views about scifi fandom. Not only did the number of female attendees outstrip male ones but the age groups present were varied. The lady who sat in front of me was probably in her fifties and she told me that she was a Trekkie from way back. She was with another woman (around her age) and brought a couple of kids under the age of 13. In front of her was an older couple probably not much older than she was. Of course, there were young guys too but there were a lot of young girls as well. Frankly speaking, the variety was too great to say that one group in particular dominated.
My father is a scifi fan from way back... in fact, it was he who got me into scifi as a kid. He watched all the Star Trek franchises including the ill-fated Enterprise up to the bitter end. He watches Stargate, BSG, Doctor Who... and now Heroes. He's in his mid-sixties.

As to the whole focus groups thing; I don't work in media marketing so it may well be different (though I think I'm being charitable there) but I do have experience in brand marketing and while I have used focus groups in the past for products it has always been with new products, never with established brands - why? For exactly the reasons being so beautifully demonstrated here, when you have a product and you have a market using it you build on that market, you find out what your established market likes and how they would make it better and that's how you bring in new market. Word of mouth is the best form of marketing there is. Using focus groups to decide how to change a product is dangerous because while you make things slightly more appealing to those who are not inclined to use your product initially you run the risk of alienating your established market. And if that happens; it's the end for the product.

Anyway, that's just my two cents worth

What you've posted here confirmed pretty much what I thought about the whole business. It's certainly the model used by Joss Whedon regarding the Firefly/Serenity phenomenon. Joss knows this well which is why he has always had a synergistic relationship with his fans. I'm not a Joss Whedon fangirl by any stretch of the imagination but I have a lot of respect for the way he values fandom and the way he writes female characters. At least someone knows which side their bread is buttered.

One of the things that has me most worried about Season 4 (and as a former marketing professional has had my jaw hitting the floor on a number of occassions) is the way in which the publicity for Atlantis is being handled, or not handled I should say.

I said something similar a while back... probably in the lemmings thread, about the atrocious PR I've been seeing coming out of Bridge. I have no direct experience with marketing or advertising but from my experience working with overseas students studying in Australia, I know it is absurd trying to antagonize the very people that you're suppose to be servicing especially when they don't know what's happening. Instead of trying to soothe ruffled feathers, they take a secretive, confrontational approach. No wonder they've botched up the characterization for Weir... they haven't the faintest idea about diplomacy...

[ShadowMaat]

I doubt actually watching the show would make TPTB see the error of their ways. After all, if you go into it expecting it to be brilliant and flawless, you aren't likely to see any faults. Particularly not if you know all the lines, set directions and whatnot- not only the stuff that appears onscreen, but all the stuff that got snipped, too. And if you have an over-inflated ego, you probably couldn't see the screen anyway.

As for the promotional stuff, I still think the highlight of wretched ep promotion was what those fools at Skiffy did for The Tower. I'll give 'em credit, though- they actually made an awful ep look even WORSE. Given the ep, I wouldn't have thought it possible. And they obviously learned a lot of lessons from that because all the current promos look just as bad- if not worse- than that one for The Tower.

[Falcon Horus]

I doubt actually watching the show would make TPTB see the error of their ways. After all, if you go into it expecting it to be brilliant and flawless, you aren't likely to see any faults. Particularly not if you know all the lines, set directions and whatnot- not only the stuff that appears onscreen, but all the stuff that got snipped, too. And if you have an over-inflated ego, you probably couldn't see the screen anyway.

Good point!