The Anti Season 4 Thread (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONLY.

[Anuna]

hmm no. he actually doesn't get into it much, just saying the politics behind the changes are "phenomenally complex".
no Carter praising.

Wow this is interesting to hear. Finally somebody mentioned it! Somobody mentioned how Atlanits is hangin in a limbo between Sci -Fi, Fox and MGM, IIRC. Imagine that. So many big wigs with their plans, motives, ideas; money investment politics and so on. No matter how many complex details are involved in these changes, here is what I think. It all comes dow to this - somebody who controls the money is affecting decisions that should have been made by creative staff, and not those big wigs. What should be a creative decision turned into "politics". That's how things usually go down the drain. Okay, I don't know if I sound coherent at all, but this is the main fact that makes me angry. Changes weren't made because there was no way to develop characters they ditched, changes were made because of "phenomenally complex politics".

[Southern Red]

This little bit of the Gero interview left me puzzled. Anyone have any ideas?

"But give us the benefit of the doubt. With the comings and goings of cast, people assume that we're doing it just because of a whim of storytelling. I just came into the office one morning and I was like "You know what? I've got this great idea but it only works if we kill Beckett." And everyone's like "OK! Sure! Let's do it!" Same with Rainbow. There's a greater political thing. This is about a bunch of people who need to work smoothly together for things to work."

I thought they have always been just one big happy family. *is confused*

[Suzotchka]

This little bit of the Gero interview left me puzzled. Anyone have any ideas?

"But give us the benefit of the doubt. With the comings and goings of cast, people assume that we're doing it just because of a whim of storytelling. I just came into the office one morning and I was like "You know what? I've got this great idea but it only works if we kill Beckett." And everyone's like "OK! Sure! Let's do it!" Same with Rainbow. There's a greater political thing. This is about a bunch of people who need to work smoothly together for things to work."

I thought they have always been just one big happy family. *is confused*

I'm not sure what to make of it. Because, like you, I thought it was one big happy family. That's what I've always gotten from the actors at cons.

[Falcon Horus]

I don't even have the desire to read it, I'm sure I won't like anything he has to say, thus, I shall not read.

Third that. I really don't want to know. It will only be depressing and Kate, my muse, has to be happy to produce many funny artwork-things, manips and fanfic.

[Anuna]

This little bit of the Gero interview left me puzzled. Anyone have any ideas?

"But give us the benefit of the doubt. With the comings and goings of cast, people assume that we're doing it just because of a whim of storytelling. I just came into the office one morning and I was like "You know what? I've got this great idea but it only works if we kill Beckett." And everyone's like "OK! Sure! Let's do it!" Same with Rainbow. There's a greater political thing. This is about a bunch of people who need to work smoothly together for things to work."

I thought they have always been just one big happy family. *is confused*

Either my english is challenged or this makes no sense at all. I still don't know what exactly was accomplished with fording Aiden. Can somebody please spell it out for me?

[Southern Red]

Either my english is challenged or this makes no sense at all. I still don't know what exactly was accomplished with fording Aiden. Can somebody please spell it out for me?

Probably not, because it doesn't make sense in any language. lol

If you take the statement literally, he is saying there were things going on behind the scenes that we the fans know nothing about that influenced the decision. That may be the networks, TPTB or even the actors themselves. All I get from it is that they keep telling us it's not what we think but never tell us what it is. And probably never will.

All in all, it just adds to the soap opera aspects of the behind the scenes machinations. What we end up with as far as story goes has very little to do with creativity, IMHO. That's why I'm back to looking at S4 as a complete AU.

[dana]

Probably not, because it doesn't make sense in any language. lol

If you take the statement literally, he is saying there were things going on behind the scenes that we the fans know nothing about that influenced the decision. That may be the networks, TPTB or even the actors themselves. All I get from it is that they keep telling us it's not what we think but never tell us what it is. And probably never will.

All in all, it just adds to the soap opera aspects of the behind the scenes machinations. What we end up with as far as story goes has very little to do with creativity, IMHO. That's why I'm back to looking at S4 as a complete AU.

I just skimmed through that interview (searched the text in my firefox for 'Weir' ) and the thing is, they don't have to tell us anything. I don't think we have any right to know what's happening at the set with the cast and the TPTB, we're just supposed to watch the damn show. I think that is what he's been trying to say. 'Stop being so nosy, it's our decision/reason'.

Still very much anti.

*goes play sims 2* (great thing to take your mind of things ) At least my Sim!Atlantis has all main characters and no one is going to die. There.

[Celcool]

I just skimmed through that interview (searched the text in my firefox for 'Weir' ) and the thing is, they don't have to tell us anything. I don't think we have any right to know what's happening at the set with the cast and the TPTB, we're just supposed to watch the damn show. I think that is what he's been trying to say. 'Stop being so nosy, it's our decision/reason'.

Still very much anti.

*goes play sims 2* (great thing to take your mind of things ) At least my Sim!Atlantis has all main characters and no one is going to die. There.

Did you find any "Weir"?

Even if that is so (though many other TPTB like to explain things, have enough of respect for their audience to do that), we do have the choice if we want to watch it or not and to curse them for not doing things the way we want them to be done.

Edit: just recieved this MyFuton alert:

"PAUL MCGILLION RETURNS TO 'STARGATE ATLANTIS'

Fan Favorite Returns for Two Episodes

Torri Higginson and Christopher Judge Also Guest Star in New Season"

Only "guest star".

[kimaken]

Probably not, because it doesn't make sense in any language. lol

If you take the statement literally, he is saying there were things going on behind the scenes that we the fans know nothing about that influenced the decision. That may be the networks, TPTB or even the actors themselves. All I get from it is that they keep telling us it's not what we think but never tell us what it is. And probably never will.

All in all, it just adds to the soap opera aspects of the behind the scenes machinations. What we end up with as far as story goes has very little to do with creativity, IMHO. That's why I'm back to looking at S4 as a complete AU.

If you read the article on the GW Homepage, "Opinions: Letters to the Editor", the editor comments at the end about a conversation with one of the producers, which pretty much lays the blame on the actors but without actually committing to any specific persons or instances as proof. It still comes across as ambiguous posturing because they really can't explain what they did or why they did it.

I don't know why these PTB can't just come right out and say "the character(s) no longer work with the direction we want to take the show so we decided to make changes at this time" or give something else that sounds like a more reasonable explanation instead of these vague references to mysterious happenings going on behind the scenes that they really can't talk about but we'd undertand if we really knew what was going on...yada, yada, yada.

My personal opinion is that TPTB screwed up big time by misjudging the SGA fanbase and every time they try to clarify matters and thus win back the fans, they end up opening their mouths only to insert their very big feet--shoes and all!

[Falcon Horus]

My personal opinion is that TPTB screwed up big time by misjudging the SGA fanbase and every time they try to clarify matters and thus win back the fans, they end up opening their mouths only to insert their very big feet--shoes and all!

Not supposed to be funny but still ...

[justhere1971]

For whatever reason, I thought Gero was a supporter of the Weir character? He speaks of her scenes and such in the commentaries on the DVDs w/ great affection.

Anuna, laughed at your "fording Aiden". But I can see how the group as a whole won't work if all the players are not working well together. We really don't know what goes on day to day, how the actors interact with each other or the support staff. I can tell you from my experience as a manager, it is truly difficult when people don't mesh, and conflict happens. If they are creating actual productive distractions, it does work out eventually; but sometimes, I have to say "timeout" ... "work it out", etc.

On the other hand, I think we as fans are entitled to a simpler reasoning of offing a beloved character, other than "we went a different direction". I am sure we don't want the whole novel, just a short story would suffice, at least for me.

[mcbarr]

Everyone is trying to cover their buttocks for the bad decisions, IMO.

[Celcool]

Everyone is trying to cover their buttocks for the bad decisions, IMO.

Could also be, yes.

[Anuna]

For whatever reason, I thought Gero was a supporter of the Weir character? He speaks of her scenes and such in the commentaries on the DVDs w/ great affection.

Anuna, laughed at your "fording Aiden". But I can see how the group as a whole won't work if all the players are not working well together. We really don't know what goes on day to day, how the actors interact with each other or the support staff. I can tell you from my experience as a manager, it is truly difficult when people don't mesh, and conflict happens. If they are creating actual productive distractions, it does work out eventually; but sometimes, I have to say "timeout" ... "work it out", etc.

On the other hand, I think we as fans are entitled to a simpler reasoning of offing a beloved character, other than "we went a different direction". I am sure we don't want the whole novel, just a short story would suffice, at least for me.

Heh, my english isn't that bad after all!! I did that "fording" observation on purpose.


Another thing - working with people is hard. Difficult. Agonizing sometimes. hey I know, it's my profession. When you ahndle a group that is supposed to work together than there should be a group leader, or better word would be a coordinator. Someone who should be commited to making things work; balancing things out, helping to sort out problems... giving up is the easiest thing to do. Somehow this ditching actors reminds me of that tactic. It doesn't work like we imagined it, we don't want to put effort.... call that phenomenally complex.

If you read the article on the GW Homepage, "Opinions: Letters to the Editor", the editor comments at the end about a conversation with one of the producers, which pretty much lays the blame on the actors but without actually committing to any specific persons or instances as proof. It still comes across as ambiguous posturing because they really can't explain what they did or why they did it.

I don't know why these PTB can't just come right out and say "the character(s) no longer work with the direction we want to take the show so we decided to make changes at this time" or give something else that sounds like a more reasonable explanation instead of these vague references to mysterious happenings going on behind the scenes that they really can't talk about but we'd undertand if we really knew what was going on...yada, yada, yada.

My personal opinion is that TPTB screwed up big time by misjudging the SGA fanbase and every time they try to clarify matters and thus win back the fans, they end up opening their mouths only to insert their very big feet--shoes and all!

Exactly! And they keep repeating that the show isn't made for the fans and that fan's oppinions don't count. What does, then???

Did you find any "Weir"?

Even if that is so (though many other TPTB like to explain things, have enough of respect for their audience to do that), we do have the choice if we want to watch it or not and to curse them for not doing things the way we want them to be done.

Edit: just recieved this MyFuton alert:

"PAUL MCGILLION RETURNS TO 'STARGATE ATLANTIS'

Fan Favorite Returns for Two Episodes

Torri Higginson and Christopher Judge Also Guest Star in New Season"

Only "guest star".

We do have a choice. I'll excercise my right / choice not to watch (that was my reference to my fav film "Dead Poets Society")

Probably not, because it doesn't make sense in any language. lol

If you take the statement literally, he is saying there were things going on behind the scenes that we the fans know nothing about that influenced the decision. That may be the networks, TPTB or even the actors themselves. All I get from it is that they keep telling us it's not what we think but never tell us what it is. And probably never will.

All in all, it just adds to the soap opera aspects of the behind the scenes machinations. What we end up with as far as story goes has very little to do with creativity, IMHO. That's why I'm back to looking at S4 as a complete AU.

Oh I thought it was my english and i was lost in the translation.

I agree, we probbably will never know what the big reason was. And yeah, what we end up has almost nothing to do with creativity. By definition creativity is something that breaks boundaries, you can't pull a line and say "You have to be creative under these terms".

What we end up with is AU. A bad one.

[Ruined_puzzle]

He did say that there was market research about the show in s2 but even then they got conflicting numbers. Both the most liked episodes were the least liked episodes. lol. I don't see how they could make a decision based on that.

So if the actors had been getting along for the past 3 years than what happened to make them not get along. The addition of someone. MMMM...

I heard that Rainbow was fired because he was always late. Where did I see that. Tries to remember.