Irresponsible (313)

[SGAFan]

Well, he did post in the CG-thread... I don't think there was as much negativity there...

Can't imagine why there would be much negativity in that thread.

*loves CG*

[caty]

Well, okay then! At least that means I don't have to dig out my dictionary (it's been years since I've actually used my German in conversation).

Lucius' marriages were made while his wives were under the influence of his herb. He said himself that at least one of them wouldn't have married him without it. Marriages are usually cemented by a sexual relationship, so going by that, he had sex with all of them, and going by the fact that they were drugged, it was without their unimpaired consent, so it was rape.

That any better of an explanation? I'm sorry for getting a little windy in my word usage. I tend to try not to use more words than I must with something this important in case I veer off point and end up sounding like I'm saying something very different.


EC: thank you.

Uh, that explanation I understand
And I get that it is rape in your opinion... However, in mine it isn't... I'm not saying that Lucius is not a bad person, because he is...
But to me what he did is using them rather than raping them.. They were concious, they were willing and there was no force..
We can argue over the definition of 'rape' for ages, but we're really trailing off topic..
I just thought your choice of words toward Ken were too hard because of the fact that you are biased (which is fine!) But 'biased' always means a certain tunnel vision and I strongly believe that there was no spite intended by what Ken said...

Let's just agree to disagree and actually get back to discussing Irresponsible?

[Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia]

Well, read the script... and I loved it. I don't care how it translated to the screen, I'm completely in agreement with Cuperus. Brilliantly funny script.

[Trialia]

And I get that it is rape in your opinion... However, in mine it isn't... I'm not saying that Lucius is not a bad person, because he is...
But to me what he did is using them rather than raping them.. They were concious, they were willing and there was no force..
We can argue over the definition of 'rape' for ages, but we're really trailing off topic..

Let's just agree to disagree and actually get back to discussing Irresponsible?

Hardly. In my country's law, if not in yours, people under the influence of alcohol or drugs like Lucius' herb can't legally consent. I am applying the situation to real life and telling you that in England he would have been arrested for rape when those women came out from under the influence of his herb.

Just so we're clear - I am not giving you my opinion, I am telling you that whether you think so or not, legally, here, it would be rape. That's all.

Okay. For now, end of this topic, as this does discuss Irresistible rather than Irresponsible.

I want to know something-- how does the episode title actually relate to the episode? Because I can't really see it. Any ideas?

[Luz]

I want to know something-- how does the episode title actually relate to the episode? Because I can't really see it. Any ideas?

You have to actually ask this?, see the word used to describe the people who wrote it.

[Trialia]

You have to actually ask this?, see the word used to describe the people who wrote it.

*laughs* This could be said. Though Irresistible was far more irresponsible. But why would the writers call it that?

[jenks]

Hardly. In my country's law, if not in yours, people under the influence of alcohol or drugs like Lucius' herb can't legally consent.

Since when? So you're telling me that if two drunken adults meet each other in a club and end up having sex, they're raping eachother?

[Trialia]

Since when? So you're telling me that if two drunken adults meet each other in a club and end up having sex, they're raping eachother?

A different section applies if they're both under the influence, but in this situation that wasn't the case.

[Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia]

Yeah, but you see, the ladies weren't under the influence of Lucius' drug. All it did was bring out something in Lucius. It was something that Lucius' own body had the potential to produce, and Lucius simply took advantage of that to make himself a more attractive person.

[Flowerbud]

While i am aware that sexual assault/non-con sex is not a joke amongst some, not everyone may share your particular point of view.

This discussion just makes me sad. It's 2006 and the issue of sexaul assault of women is just not taken seriously by many people.

The writers/producers of Stargate Atlantis trivialized the issue of sexual assault/non-consensual sex by presenting it as a humorous, lighthearted thing. It's that jarring disconnect between the horror of rape and the la de da tone of isn't it hilarious that a fat, loathesome man is getting sex from all these gorgeous women in push-up bras who wouldn't otherwise have sex with him.

Trialia is right. Sexault assault against women won't decrease if the media keeps sending out the message that date rape is okay. I know Ken C. stated that the writers had no intention of condoning rape, but unfortunately, a good number of viewers have had this negative reaction and see it exactly as dismissing rape by fostering an environment that condones rape.

In Irresitible, the issue of Lucius's date rape and likely future date rape of the Weir and Teyla was treated lightly. Wasn't it hilarious seeing Weir's humiliation at the end of the episode? You know she could have become another wife for him to degrade. It was just disgusting how the whole thing was treated like a joke. (I'm referring to Irresitible, have not seen Irresponsible).

I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask the writers and producers to be more responsible and consider the broader ramifications of their storylines

[Trialia]

Yeah, but you see, the ladies weren't under the influence of Lucius' drug. All it did was bring out something in Lucius. It was something that Lucius' own body had the potential to produce, and Lucius simply took advantage of that to make himself a more attractive person.

I suggest you re-read the biologist's explanation of how it worked, Ryu - then you'll see what I'm getting at. They were chemically influenced, which means that they didn't consent with no mental impairment, which legally means that they didn't consent at all.

Flowerbud-- thank you. That's exactly how I felt about it on a personal level - as though what happened to me was being trivialised all over again as it was the first time I actually spoke out about it. I will never be able to accept that kind of irresponsible behaviour from people with so much influence. Millions of people watch this show. It only takes one idiot in that multitude...

[ShadowMaat]

There were no rape drugs involved in Irresponsible, though, just a village conveniently full of idiots.

[Trialia]

There were no rape drugs involved in Irresponsible, though, just a village conveniently full of idiots.

Didn't Ken himself say the words "love potion"? Chemical concoction to help induce an emotion or behaviour in another human being = "drug". If it's used to facilitate marriages like it was in this episode, it's legally rape, therefore, "rape drugs" were, in fact, involved.

[Luz]

There were no rape drugs involved in Irresponsible, though, just a village conveniently full of idiots.

I lost a few braincells watching it, I want them back, and those minutes I wasted are forever lost too.

[Trialia]

I lost a few braincells watching it, I want them back, and those minutes I wasted are forever lost too.

I highly appreciate the giggle you just made me crack.