Tao of Rodney (314)

[Cluas]

That proves my point that Rodney could not read his mind about how Ronon felt about the scars. If he read his mind he would not need to ask

Hey, just a quick thought....:

Perhaps Rodney asked anyway, just because he tried to be polite?
It's not like he and Ronan talked a lot in the past, so maybe...

Anyway this was not my fave episode either, but it was kind of funny at times ...

[jelgate]

But that is out of character for McKay. He is not a polite person

[Cluas]

But that is out of character for McKay. He is not a polite person

I agree. That was kind of my point... In his state, knowing he was going to die (or thought so) he WAS out of character, and he tried the best he could to be polite to everyone...

[Baron Of Hell]

Really liked this episode. The touching moments at the end were particularly good.

[garhkal]

True, perhaps he felt if he was going to have a chance of passing on properly (whether acending or going to that place in the wide blue beyond) he needed to get his affairs in order..

[mrscopterdoc]

Although I don't hate Rodney, he isn't my most favorite. I do love how they showed him almost humble in this episode.

[jelgate]

and do the exact same episode in S5

[losernerdfriend]

I thought this was a good episode! I really liked that Rodney had to face his own mortality head-on and decided to make the best of his situation -- after of course being rude to everyone when he first discovered his powers.

I also really liked the team-bonding that happened this episode. There are a lot of bantering moments between McKay and others, but there aren't a lot of times where they're able to put things aside and realize that they are all friends. I especially liked him bonding with Teyla over the death of her father, and his bonding with Ronon where he got rid of the scars left over from the Wraith. They were really sweet moments that we haven't seen between them in the past.

[Jack_O'Neill]

By my opinion this episode is so awesome.
McKay is my favorite character in this series. Interesting to know for what this device was created by ancients, probably for create super humans. What do you think?

[Xaeden]

By my opinion this episode is so awesome.
McKay is my favorite character in this series. Interesting to know for what this device was created by ancients, probably for create super humans. What do you think?

It was repeatedly said in the episode that it was created to fast track the ascension process, but because the Ancients who experimented with it died if they weren't able to ascend it was never used commonly. Example:

WEIR: Well, we know the Ancients evolved physiologically to a certain point where they could transform into a state of pure energy.

SHEPPARD: Ancient History 101.

WEIR: Yes. We also know that not all of them managed to get there.

SHEPPARD: You're saying some of them needed a kick in the pants.

WEIR: So to speak. I think this machine was not meant to help them fight the war against the Wraith but rather to help them escape it.

SHEPPARD (frowning): An ascension machine?

[Rohan]

It was repeatedly said in the episode that it was created to fast track the ascension process, but because the Ancients who experimented with it died if they weren't able to ascend it was never used commonly. Example:

WEIR: Well, we know the Ancients evolved physiologically to a certain point where they could transform into a state of pure energy.

SHEPPARD: Ancient History 101.

WEIR: Yes. We also know that not all of them managed to get there.

SHEPPARD: You're saying some of them needed a kick in the pants.

WEIR: So to speak. I think this machine was not meant to help them fight the war against the Wraith but rather to help them escape it.

SHEPPARD (frowning): An ascension machine?

But I find it weird they never revisited this technology in trying to create evolved humans with psychic abilities. More so, even if they couldn't get the technology to work the way they wanted it too they know how to reset it so there wouldn't be any casualties from it's use.

[Xaeden]

But I find it weird they never revisited this technology in trying to create evolved humans with psychic abilities.

"Stargate: Atlantis" doesn't show this in flashbacks, but there should theoretically be plenty of Ancients who, 10,000 years ago, naturally had abilities since they're so evolved. Ayiana had powers 5-10 million years ago, a number of her contemporaries were able to ascend, and there was apparently a sizable number of Ancients capable of ascending within their own lifetimes 10,000 years ago as well.

Anubis' clone exhibited telekinetic and healing abilities at 71% brain function, while ascension required 96%, so unless it's possible to naturally jump from the former to the latter in one's own lifetime, it's likely that a good number, if not all, Ancients were already running around with powers.

If, on the other hand, you mean the second evolution of their form, I don't know why the Ancients would want humans to be as evolved as them. The purpose of creating humans was, at least in the Milky Way, so that their form could continue to exist on the lower planes. Fast tracking human evolution means their time on the lower planes would be reduced as they'll be able to ascend much sooner.

More so, even if they couldn't get the technology to work the way they wanted it too they know how to reset it so there wouldn't be any casualties from it's use.

Apparently not...

McKAY: Look, all the Ancients that experimented with that device, they either ascended or died -- most of them the latter, which is why it did not get put into common use.

...

McKAY: Despite the fact that the Ancient database states that its effects on people are wildly unpredictable and that I'm just lucky I wasn't instantly melted down into a pool of protoplasm.

[Rohan]

If, on the other hand, you mean the second evolution of their form, I don't know why the Ancients would want humans to be as evolved as them. The purpose of creating humans was, at least in the Milky Way, so that their form could continue to exist on the lower planes. Fast tracking human evolution means their time on the lower planes would be reduced as they'll be able to ascend much sooner.

I was talking about the Atlantis expedition. If they were able to properly harness this technology, it would give them an incredible tactical edge. Not to mention for people like Rodney, the things they would be able to think of and create would be astounding. But if nothing else, it can also serve as a good stand by that if they managed to find another repository of knowledge they would be able to fully understand and utilize Ancient technology without the backlash of what happened to Col. O'Neill.

Apparently not...
McKAY: Look, all the Ancients that experimented with that device, they either ascended or died -- most of them the latter, which is why it did not get put into common use.

...

McKAY: Despite the fact that the Ancient database states that its effects on people are wildly unpredictable and that I'm just lucky I wasn't instantly melted down into a pool of protoplasm.[/INDENT]

Now this part wasn't specific for me. Does it mean it will affect other people differently or the individual will get a random effect so they can't use the machine with a reset on hand. If the later, then yeah that's not good. But if the former then Mckay knows that the machine will work fine for him and allow him to do incredible things within certain windows of time.

[Xaeden]

I was talking about the Atlantis expedition. If they were able to properly harness this technology, it would give them an incredible tactical edge. Not to mention for people like Rodney, the things they would be able to think of and create would be astounding. But if nothing else, it can also serve as a good stand by that if they managed to find another repository of knowledge they would be able to fully understand and utilize Ancient technology without the backlash of what happened to Col. O'Neill.

Ah. Well, if the Ancients couldn't get it to work properly, that doesn't bode well for Earth's chances. Plus, trying to tweak it likely requires experimentation. That may be why the Ancients gave up on it; they probably weren't willing to keep sacrificing their own people and they weren't willing to experiment on humans in an effort to find the right balance. Likewise, Earth isn't going to send X number of people to their deaths so they can find a way to evolve people to the point where they have powers, but aren't yet capable of ascending.

It's the kind of technology that you may need someone with the morality of the Goa'uld (e.g. Anubis) or the Ori (although, ascended knowledge may have allowed them to skip past experimental trials) to perfect.

Now this part wasn't specific for me. Does it mean it will affect other people differently or the individual will get a random effect so they can't use the machine with a reset on hand. If the later, then yeah that's not good. But if the former then Mckay knows that the machine will work fine for him and allow him to do incredible things within certain windows of time.

That's not clear to me either, and it may not be clear to them as the Ancients would have had to put the same person through the process multiple times for them to figure that out. Since the database didn't contain the reset solution that McKay figured out and McKay said the Ancients either ascended or died, it's likely that no Ancient reset themselves and tried again. Since the Ancients created the device to help them ascend, any Ancient who tested the device would have done so with that as the end goal. Therefore, they probably were hyper focused on trying to make ascension work in their final moments. This is very much unlike McKay's mentality as he had to be talked into trying to ascend and even then wanted to ascend so that he could retake human form. Thus, as a unwilling participant, he was willing to consider solutions that the Ancients weren't.

[Rohan]

Ah. Well, if the Ancients couldn't get it to work properly, that doesn't bode well for Earth's chances. Plus, trying to tweak it likely requires experimentation. That may be why the Ancients gave up on it; they probably weren't willing to keep sacrificing their own people and they weren't willing to experiment on humans in an effort to find the right balance. Likewise, Earth isn't going to send X number of people to their deaths so they can find a way to evolve people to the point where they have powers, but aren't yet capable of ascending.

It's the kind of technology that you may need someone with the morality of the Goa'uld (e.g. Anubis) or the Ori (although, ascended knowledge may have allowed them to skip past experimental trials) to perfect.

But post-unending, they have a solution bordering on a moral grey line of being able to experiment with it by using the Asgard cloning technology. Not only would they be able to use the machine to test who can use it without turning into protoplasm but observe on a genetic level what they need in order to have physiology similar to an Ancient. Supposedly if they ran it through a sequencer they should know what gene sequences are common among evolved humans if they took blood samples from Aiyana (Frozen), Khalek (Prototype), and Rodney (Tao of Rodney).

However as you stated, morality is an issue here. But if we go with Loki's method (Fragile Balance), it's a bit more stomach-able in relation to volunteers. If this is purely observation, blank clone slates.

That's not clear to me either, and it may not be clear to them as they Ancients would have had to put the same person through the process multiple times for them to figure that out. Since the database didn't contain the reset solution that McKay figured out and McKay said the Ancients either ascended or died, it's likely that no Ancient reset themselves and tried again. Since the Ancients created the device to help them ascend, any Ancient who tested the device would have done so with that as the end goal. Therefore, they probably were hyper focused on trying to make ascension work in their final moments. This is very much unlike McKay's mentality as he had to be talked into trying to ascend and even then wanted to ascend so that he could retake human form. Thus, as a unwilling participant, he was willing to consider solutions that the Ancients weren't.

However the intention is using the machine for it's side effects and not it's end goal. So if Rodney knows the machine will work fine for him he can just artificially evolve himself then reset when things get dangerous. Thus rinse and repeat. Not very convenient. But you take whatever advantage you can.