Coup D'etat (217)

[Schrodinger82]

Just out of curiosity, have we actually ever seen an episode where they have detected a zpm from a scan on a planet. McKay in the very first episode said that if there were zpms in the city they should be able to detect them......should be able....does not necessarily mean they can in fact detect them. I cannot recall any episodes where they located a zpm via a scan.....but it's late and my memory is shot at the moment so I could be wrong.

Perhaps they are only able to detect active zpms. Every zpm I have seen looks dead unless it is plugged into some sort of power source, so how is it detectable? Shouldn't McKay have had some equipment with him on this little raid to "scan" and see if this zpm was there? Shouldn't a cloaked jumper have snuck through the gate with the raid team and scanned for the zpm?

Guys, I realize that most people didn't like "The Tower," but really, it was just two weeks ago:

(John’s voice comes over the radio.)
SHEPPARD: This is Sheppard. Anyone reading me?
TEYLA: Colonel! Are you alright?
SHEPPARD (over radio): I’m fine. Is McKay with you?
McKAY: I’m here.
SHEPPARD (over radio): Did you find anything with your scans?
McKAY: As a matter of fact, I did. There’s definitely an active ZedPM, but it’s barely registering, so it’s hard to say whether it’s, uh, depleted or just not drawing much power right now.
SHEPPARD (over radio): What else?
McKAY: The really interesting part is that it seems to be coming from underground. Now, when I realised that, I started scanning for subterranean structures. The Tower is just the tip of the iceberg, and there is a massive structure buried beneath it. Now, it’s hard to say without more detailed analysis, but, (he laughs) it could very well be comparable in size to Atlantis itself.

[CalmStorm]

SHEPPARD (over radio): Did you find anything with your scans?
McKAY: As a matter of fact, I did. There’s definitely an active ZedPM, but it’s barely registering, so it’s hard to say whether it’s, uh, depleted or just not drawing much power right now.

The keyword being active. I understand that they should be able to detect an active zpm, and obviously have, I am not disputing that......what I am having a hard time believing is that they could detect an inactive zpm as they have not managed to do that yet.....that I am aware of.

Both McKay and Carter have said that they should be able to detect a zpm (active or inactive), but even they must have a small degree of doubt or they would omit the 'should' part and say with complete confidence that "yes, we can detect a zpm dead, alive, or inactive." They seem to be fairly confident they can, but also have a degree of hesitance with that assumption/theory.....and as of yet, no dead/inactive zpms have been found via a scan.....again, that I am aware of.

[Ashman]

I thought the episode was good, its nice to see them wrap up the Geni thing. I hope they come out with more about Ford and his merry band of wraith addicts. Thats my two credits.

[Finder of Lost Gates]

I'm confused, because I didn't start watching SGA till this season, and have only seen a few Season1, out of order. I think I've seen almost all this season.

Someone please help me put the events straight in my mind.

I thought Atlantis did the fake destruction thing at the first episode this season. Or if not the first, then the first two-parter.

I thought the Genii had tried to take over Atlantis this season. I remember the red-haired woman all hell-bent on revenge as they stormed the station. I could have sworn I just saw this episode recently.

[GatetheWay]

The Genii tried to take Atlantis over in the middle of season 1. Atlantis faked it's own destruction in the very begining of season 2.

[mckaychick]

Yeah the genii tried to take over the city in the storm and the eye

[Matt G]

OK...

1. Nice work by Teyla in working out that the bag meant something.

2. Good stuff with the coup - I'd like to see the Genii as alllies from here on on.

3. By the Genii of course I mean the new Genii establishment, Robert Davi does too cool a job with bad guys not to bring Kolya back.

[andrelage]

OK...

1. Nice work by Teyla in working out that the bag meant something.

2. Good stuff with the coup - I'd like to see the Genii as alllies from here on on.

3. By the Genii of course I mean the new Genii establishment, Robert Davi does too cool a job with bad guys not to bring Kolya back.

i agree it would be great to see them as allies as they know more planets than the atlantis team and could also tell them where their might be further ancient outposts and also offer nuclear bombs to blow up hive ships

[Schrodinger82]

The keyword being active. I understand that they should be able to detect an active zpm, and obviously have, I am not disputing that......what I am having a hard time believing is that they could detect an inactive zpm as they have not managed to do that yet.....that I am aware of.

Honestly, it doesn't matter. They weren't actively looking for an inactive ZPM in the first place. In this episode, they wanted an active ZPM. Which means, "Before you take hostages and try to do a raid on their territory to steal an active, you might want to make sure that they have an active ZPM there in the first place."

If they couldn't detect anything, then they should have known that something was up.

[GatetheWay]

I was spoiled to death on this ep and I didn't see the dead ZPM thing coming at all.

[PG15]

Honestly, it doesn't matter. They weren't actively looking for an inactive ZPM in the first place. In this episode, they wanted an active ZPM. Which means, "Before you take hostages and try to do a raid on their territory to steal an active, you might want to make sure that they have an active ZPM there in the first place."

If they couldn't detect anything, then they should have known that something was up.

Uh...I don't think that's right.

From your own post, it said that:

McKAY: As a matter of fact, I did. There’s definitely an active ZedPM, but it’s barely registering, so it’s hard to say whether it’s, uh, depleted or just not drawing much power right now.

So, according to McKay, if the ZPM was depleted, he wouldn't have picked up anythng. That's normal, and the basis of your argument.

HOWEVER, McKay specifically said that another reason why he wouldn't be able to pick it up is that IT'S NOT DRAWING MUCH POWER. Therefore, if it wasn't being used (as in, not drawing any power at all), it won't be detected. Thus, even if the ZPM Ladon had was full, they wouldn't have picked it up since it wasn't drawing power AT ALL.

Get it?

[ToasterOnFire]

I didn't think about using long-distance means to measure the charge of the ZPM. I assumed that the Atlantis team would insist on sending Rodney or another scientist over there to analyze the ZPM directly. Too bad that option wasn't even brought up.

Having the team assume that the ZPM was charged, especially after seeing how crafty the Genii were in Storm/Eye, was too much blind faith for my tastes.

[Schrodinger82]

Uh...I don't think that's right.

From your own post, it said that:

McKAY: As a matter of fact, I did. There’s definitely an active ZedPM, but it’s barely registering, so it’s hard to say whether it’s, uh, depleted or just not drawing much power right now.

So, according to McKay, if the ZPM was depleted, he wouldn't have picked up anythng. That's normal, and the basis of your argument.

Actually, the basis of my argument was whether they could detect an non-depleted ZPM. It's not like they would have a reason to actively detect a drained one.

HOWEVER, McKay specifically said that another reason why he wouldn't be able to pick it up is that IT'S NOT DRAWING MUCH POWER. Therefore, if it wasn't being used (as in, not drawing any power at all), it won't be detected. Thus, even if the ZPM Ladon had was full, they wouldn't have picked it up since it wasn't drawing power AT ALL.

Get it?

:sigh:

I really shouldn't have to do this, but...

Rising:
JACKSON: Jack, you know to gate to another Galaxy requires an enormous amount of power.

O'NEILL: Yes I do. Find another way.

JACKSON: There's no other way.

O'NEILL: You think there are more of these Zed things in Atlantis?

JACKSON: Yes and who knows what else we could find. This isn't just some other civilization we're talking about. These are the gate builders.

Establishes that one of the reasons they went to Atlantis was specifically so they could find more ZPMs. Now, obviously there're not going to send them out without giving them the latest tech in ZPM detection.

Zero Hour
REYNOLDS: It’s the only thing powerful enough to activate the Ancient defence weapons SG-1 found down in Antarctica. The one we have is pretty much dead ...
(Lee has been running a gadget over the ZPM. The gadget starts beeping.)
LEE: We-he-hell, this one sure isn’t!
GILMOR: How good is it?
LEE: Well, I’m gonna have to do some more detailed analysis but these preliminary readings indicate at least fifty percent capacity.

Establishes that the tech they have for detecting ZPMs doesn't necessarily have to be very large. Granted, they would have been further away in "Coup," but considering the fact that they ran scans from a cloaked ship, they could have come in within a hundred feet, easily.

Moebius:
CARTER: We did an extensive satellite sweep of the Giza plateau searching for an energy signature like the one given off by the ZPM we found at Taonas. Even if it’s buried under dirt and rock, we should have been able to detect it. We found nothing. I’m sorry, Daniel, but if it’s there, it’s probably been depleted.
DANIEL: No, I don’t think so. According to the text, it was a religious artefact, an icon. It was never used as a power source.
TEAL’C: It is possible Ra simply took the device with him when he left Earth.
Establishes that they have the tech to detect a ZPM that is not drawing power from orbit, even if it's buried under dirt and rock.

Coup:
SHEPPARD: The Special Ops guy’s followed Ladon to M6R-867. Looks like he’s occupied a warehouse in a bombed-out abandoned city.
McKAY: It was most likely destroyed by the Wraith and never re-inhabited.
SHEPPARD: He did a quick fly-over in a cloaked Jumper and sure enough there are about twenty life signs in the building.
McKAY: Well, twenty life signs on the whole planet, actually.

Apparently the jumper's sensors were good enough to detect all lifesigns on the entire planet. Given that level of sensititivity, I have a hard time believing that they couldn't modify them to detect a ZPM in a building from 50-100 feet, something that even non-Atlantean tech could do.

As of "The Seige," they would have presumably had access to more research to ZPM's and ZPM scanning technology (based on what they pulled from Atlantis's sensors), and Earth would have had ample opportunity to supply them with the newest equipment.

The fact that McKay was able to detect a ZPM that was drawing power in "Tower" doesn't in itself prove that he couldn't detect a ZPM that wasn't drawing power, not does it in itself prove that he could. However, the above quotes from Moebius and Zero Hour do prove that it would be within their capabilities. The fact that they chose not to is a plot hole.

[Schrodinger82]

I didn't think about using long-distance means to measure the charge of the ZPM. I assumed that the Atlantis team would insist on sending Rodney or another scientist over there to analyze the ZPM directly. Too bad that option wasn't even brought up.

Having the team assume that the ZPM was charged, especially after seeing how crafty the Genii were in Storm/Eye, was too much blind faith for my tastes.

The thing is, it wasn't even an issue of the ZPM being depleted. It was an issue of the ZPM being present. For all they know, the ZPM Ladon was holding up could have been a glass replica. Or, more likely, it could have been stored on a completely different world until Ladon was sure everything went by smoothly, which he had already done earlier in that episode.

Either way, they should have run scans. At which point, they would have barely registered anything, and concluded that the ZPM was either not there, or depleted.

[PG15]

Hmm...darn it.

Fine.