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  • BethHG
    replied
    Originally posted by AleksisMi View Post
    Conspiracy theory, Janus and the council leave a time jumper programmed to jump to thier location and time zone, after people arrive on atlantis, and atlantis is designed to self destruct and flood the first time forcing them towards the docking bays in a clever rouse to examine whoever finds atlantis first and

    determine if they are worthy, and thats why we dont see sheppard or zelenka, they are kept and used by the ancients to help supplement thier numbers and provide a layout of the new galaxy they are going to when they know they had to come from earth due to the location of where the gate was only accessible from....

    theory, backed by what if they didnt lose any ancients in transports above, but it was a recorded fake loss, just to make sure when they left that the person janus would "help" to keep the city functional

    would set her companions on the right course... and nothing is a coincidence or chance... further backed by the hologram being a ancient that has ascended giving just the right amount of information, and the

    ancient protected world that still exists etc

    Seriously, you should write fanfic.

    Leave a comment:


  • AleksisMi
    replied
    Conspiracy theory, Janus and the council leave a time jumper programmed to jump to thier location and time zone, after people arrive on atlantis, and atlantis is designed to self destruct and flood the first time forcing them towards the docking bays in a clever rouse to examine whoever finds atlantis first and

    determine if they are worthy, and thats why we dont see sheppard or zelenka, they are kept and used by the ancients to help supplement thier numbers and provide a layout of the new galaxy they are going to when they know they had to come from earth due to the location of where the gate was only accessible from....

    theory, backed by what if they didnt lose any ancients in transports above, but it was a recorded fake loss, just to make sure when they left that the person janus would "help" to keep the city functional

    would set her companions on the right course... and nothing is a coincidence or chance... further backed by the hologram being a ancient that has ascended giving just the right amount of information, and the

    ancient protected world that still exists etc

    Leave a comment:


  • BethHG
    replied
    All this alternative timeline talk is confusing.

    I really love this episode. So cool to see Janus and the other ancients. It explains the time machine found in Moebius in SG1, why the wraith overwhelmed the Ancients ( with numbers, not better technology), why they abandoned Atlantis, and why there was a fail-safe in place. I loved seeing the really old Elizabeth as well. I also loved that Sheppard found out when Elizabeth's birthday and gave her a present. I didn't think that it was a romantic gesture, just a thoughtful one.

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  • Janet Fraiser
    replied
    Originally posted by pakar View Post
    There isn't one. An alternate timeline creates an alternate/parallel universe
    That's what I thought.

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  • pakar
    replied
    Originally posted by Janet Fraiser View Post

    , and I haven't been able to find a difference between them online.
    There isn't one. An alternate timeline creates an alternate/parallel universe

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  • Janet Fraiser
    replied
    Originally posted by Britta View Post
    That was also an alternate timeline.
    Yeah, but isn't that also an alternate universe? How do two different timelines exist in one universe?

    As soon as the note was sent back in time, a new reality was created.

    As I mentioned in my last post, I don't know the difference between alternate timelines and alternate universes. I linked the wiki stating that an alternate timeline created an alternate universe, and I haven't been able to find a difference between them online.
    Last edited by Janet Fraiser; 07 August 2015, 10:57 AM.

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  • Britta
    replied
    Originally posted by Janet Fraiser View Post
    How did all of this take place in our universe while the events of 2010 created an alternate universe? At least, that's what the assumption is, right?
    That was also an alternate timeline.

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  • Janet Fraiser
    replied
    Originally posted by Britta View Post
    An alternate timeline is not the same as an alternate universe.
    And this is where I start to hate time travel.

    How did all of this take place in our universe while the events of 2010 created an alternate universe? At least, that's what the assumption is, right?

    On the Stargate wiki page for alternate timelines (since I couldn't find a difference between alternate timelines and universes in general elsewhere), an alternate timeline causes an alternate universe to form. When something in the past is changed, or as soon as someone or something goes back in time, a new universe is created with those changes.

    "Before I Sleep" is on this page, and this part is at the end:

    Major John Sheppard, Dr. Elizabeth Weir and Dr. Radek Zelenka are the only members of the expedition to escape the city, when Sheppard inadvertently activates a time-travel device inside one of the Puddle Jumpers.

    - The Time Jumper takes them into orbit around Lantea during the siege by the Wraith; the Jumper crashes and Sheppard and Zelenka are killed, but Weir is rescued by the Lanteans and lives out her days on Atlantis, simultaneously setting up events so that a 'fail-safe' is installed that will cause Atlantis to rise to the surface rather than be flooded when power drops to a critical level. These events are not part of an alternate timeline, as they are in fact in the past of "our" timeline.
    From the moment Sheppard activated the time machine and sent them into orbit in the puddle jumper, they were a part of our universe, our timeline. They were in the past, and their being there already changed things from how events originally had played out by the time that Sheppard and Elizabeth had arrived in Atlantis.

    Rodney says, "The moment she went back in time, she created a separate reality, a second you living in a parallel world. Well, according to one of many interpretations of quantum theory...the universe is split into an infinite number of copies of itself in which every possible outcome to every decision ever made all exists somewhere in this infinitely layered multi-universe."

    If everything took place in one universe - if Elizabeth made it so that Atlantis wouldn't sink, and her future self and John would not use the time machine - how could she exist in the past at all? The only thing that makes sense to me is that she came from a different timeline and universe. Because I'm still unclear about the difference between the two.

    Of course, that brings me back to how two of her could exist in one universe, but... eh.

    The only conceptual difference I can think of between alternate timelines and alternate universes in the show (since I don't actually know the theoretical science behind them) is that a timeline highlights how different events played out in different universes, showing exactly what event might have triggered a split into more than one universe (ignoring that every decision will create a different universe; in the show it would be only something relevant to the story like the note in 2010 and 2001). Whereas in the episode with Daniel using the quantum mirror to travel to an alternate universe where Earth is under attack by the Goa'uld, the past events aren't examined so much as the present state of the universe itself.

    Ugh. Why do I always get so into the time travel stuff... I simultaneously love and loathe it.

    Originally posted by garhkal View Post
    Additionally, the reason for her being needed to rotate the ZPM's is that jannus had switched them from running in parallel to running in series, one at a time, so someone had to stay to switch them out when they ran out of juice. That was Torri.
    I guess it was him saying "in case this doesn't work, I've built this fail-safe yadda yadda" that made me wonder if it was necessary.
    Last edited by Janet Fraiser; 07 August 2015, 10:42 AM.

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  • garhkal
    replied
    Additionally, the reason for her being needed to rotate the ZPM's is that jannus had switched them from running in parallel to running in series, one at a time, so someone had to stay to switch them out when they ran out of juice. That was Torri.

    Leave a comment:


  • Britta
    replied
    Originally posted by Janet Fraiser View Post
    My question, which I think someone asked earlier in the thread, is that if our universe is different from the one Old Weir traveled back from, is there supposed to be an explanation as to why Elizabeth was able to be born in this universe? Isn't there a problem with people from alternate universes existing in the same one?
    An alternate timeline is not the same as an alternate universe.

    Leave a comment:


  • Janet Fraiser
    replied
    First of all, I love Torri Higginson. She da bestest.

    I'm happy to see the positive reaction here. Elsewhere on the internet, I've seen less than kind things said about her character in general, so I was actually expecting more of the same here.

    Anyway, more time travel. Whoo. Time travel is fun but potentially headache-inducing, and, unfortunately, this episode is no exception for me. My question, which I think someone asked earlier in the thread, is that if our universe is different from the one Old Weir traveled back from, is there supposed to be an explanation as to why Elizabeth was able to be born in this universe? Isn't there a problem with people from alternate universes existing in the same one?

    I don't know if that was actually answered here. I assume it's just something we're suppose to accept.

    While I love that her actions enable our expedition to survive their arrival in Atlantis, it's once again depressing to think about her original universe in which everyone is still dead, and the city is gone. (Looking at you, 2010.) I wonder if Old Weir even realizes that she's changed the future of a different world instead of her own.

    Also, if Janus put in the city rising as a fail-safe, you'd think Liz wouldn't have to have stayed behind to rotate the ZPMs. I mean, whatever, I should ignore it. I just feel bad for her, giving up her life and all.

    Besides that, I really love this ep. Great insight into the Ancients, love seeing Melia, and I'm always happy to see continuity between SG-1 and SGA. Torri as both her young and old self is just wonderful, and I'm glad we're able to have an episode dedicated to her character that is important to the story at the same time. Definitely the most emotionally powerful episode for me so far, but then, Liz has that effect on me.
    Last edited by Janet Fraiser; 06 August 2015, 05:35 PM.

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  • thekillman
    replied
    Originally posted by mrscopterdoc View Post
    Point taken. It shall be simply be an unanswered question.

    What about the other addresses?

    *shrugs*
    They likely came up empty, and an episode dedicated to finding nothing is not very satisfying.

    Originally posted by Alexander0980 View Post
    The hologram said to Weir, Sheppard, col. Summer and McKay that when got back to earth some of them headed to the South Pole Stargate, some secluded meditation (Morgan la fey, merlin/Moros) while others blended with humans on earth.
    They arrived at the south pole. Then, some stayed on earth or went in meditation while others went through the gate again into the milky way

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  • Alexander0980
    replied
    I like this episode. It was fun. But I'd go deeper a bit concerning the ancients. So the puddle-jumper gets back in time during the wraith-ancient war. The Ancients decided to submerge the city and go back to earth. The thing I do not understand comes with the timeline of all this. It is stated, that Weir comes back roughly 10.000 years. If you look at the date of the Atlantis expedition would be about 2004 A.D. Minus 10.000 would mean that the ancients get back to earth the same period of time when the Goaul'd RA discovers earth and slaves the humans. The question is....which Stargate they did dial??? The hologram said to Weir, Sheppard, col. Summer and McKay that when got back to earth some of them headed to the South Pole Stargate, some secluded meditation (Morgan la fey, merlin/Moros) while others blended with humans on earth. But if they had to go towards Antarctica, which gate they arrived from the Pegasus. So far I thought there were only 2 gates on earth....the very first stargate of the Milky Way on Antarctica and the one that RA brought with him and placed it in Egypt. If that gate was not the 1st then the Giza one??? It's very unlikely the were not seen by the Goaul'd RA and his Jaffas when they arrived back from Atlantis. There must have been a 3rd gate somewhere.

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  • mrscopterdoc
    replied
    Point taken. It shall be simply be an unanswered question.

    What about the other addresses?

    *shrugs*

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  • P-90_177
    replied
    Originally posted by jelgate View Post
    Just not mentioning something does not equate a plot hole
    Agreed. Contradictory information equates to a plot hole. Simply not mentioning it again simply means that it was either dealt with off screen or they simply never bothered. Most likely the former.

    Leave a comment:

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