Before I Sleep (115)

[Draco_Astreus]

When Past Sheppard, Past Zelensky, and Past Weir are in the PJ, in the flooding PJ bay, there was a flash of light when Past Sheppard wanted them out of there, then they were in space. Is it to my understanding that when Past Sheppard thought that, it activated the Time Machine and sent them to the past? Is that what I saw?

Well as I understood it, they noticed that particular PJ had different controls than the others, and Sheppard seems to have hit a random control which landed them in the past, in orbit. After that you have it right.

[ShadowMaat]

Joking around aside, wouldn't Past Weir's life have sucked? 10,000 years of sleeping, waking up only to rotate the ZPMs... that would get old. It must have been hard, no matter what was at stake, to keep doing it. It is human nature to tire of a monotinous lifestyle. She had to have forced herself to keep doing it, no matter how noble or moral she is/was. Don't you think?

I wondered about that. But didn't Janus say he was setting the machine to wake her every 3000 years or so? Or just over 3000 years. So she'd only have had to go through about three cycles of that. Still monotonous, but not as bad as if she had to do it, say, every 300 years. I could see her taking time off to wander around the city a bit if that were the case. And really, we don't know for sure that she didn't explore the city a bit when she had the chance.

[Xevallah]

Am I the only one who saw the Sci-Fi channel promo for the ep and immediately thought. "Its Wier"

There was no doubt in my mind it was her, and the episode tries to build up some type of anticipation by her passing out every commercial break. When you do that, you had better have a good pay off, and this episode simply didnt. Perhaps if they hadnt shown us the note until the very end, but alas they didnt.

Also, I dont want to learn about the Ancients, as the show has progressed they have been kinda forced to. The more they touch on the Ancients the more they lose their mystery, the more they simply arent interesting.

I still dont understand why a milion year old race looks exactly like us. If we are the supposed second evolution, why the hell do we look exactly the same?

Overall I would rate it a 3. Mediocre episode.

[LordAnubis]

Okay, this has been bothering me somewhat.

When the Ancients left Atlantis and went back to Earth via the gate, did they end up in Antarctica or Egypt? 10,000 years ago, Ra was on Earth and had brought a gate to Earth via ship, which of course, was in Giza, Egypt. The Ancients would not know of this gate and would assume they'd end up back in Antarctica.

However, we know that 10,000 years ago, Antarctica was frozen like it is today. Ten thousand years is NOT a lot of time geologically and meterologically, so we know that Earth's poles have been frozen for quite some time, including Antarctica. Also, we know that Ayiana, who was frozen for 3 million years, was undisturbed. Therefore, the Ancients that came back to Earth most likely did not end up in Antractica, but rather Egypt. Had they come back via the Antarctic gate, they would have probably awakened Ayiana (unless they didn't know aobut her, but should) and used the Outpost, but it appeared that they hadn't done either of these things.

This leads me to believe that they probably ended up in Egypt and eventually helped cause the rebellion against the Goa'uld. However, wouldn't they have a problem being detected by the Goa'uld upon return to Earth via the Giza gate? Ra would be most curious about advanced humans returning from somewhere. A ribbon device would be able to effectively torture them and find out where they came from. Ra would have gone to Atlantis, had he known those were Ancients returning.

Dr. Weir, even the old one, still controlled SGC for sometime before O'Neill was promoted and before she took the Atlantis mission. She met with several system lords of the Goa'uld before she left for Atlantis and certainly knew of the original Abydos mission. She knew Ra controlled Egypt 10,000 years ago. Why would she keep this key piece of information from the Atlantean Ancients? I would have told them that aliens were on Earth and controlled it at that time and would have told them of the second, newer gate brought by the Goa'uld.

Does anyone else see where I'm going with this? Seems like a horrible omission. Those poor Atlanteans would be easy pickings for Ra's troops.

[Draco_Astreus]

^Well there's a thread on this, there are some ideas but you bring up a good point about Ayiana. I didn't think about her, honestly I'm not sure I have a good explination. Since Antarctica was covered in ice at this time, it's very possible that she was bearied deep beneath them by the time they came back. She's been there a LONG time, so it wouldn't surprise me.

Oh and about Wier not telling them about Ra, I think that'd fall under the whole 'no temporal intervention' policy of most Ancients. They wouldn't want to hear it if she tried to tell them.

[Easter Lily]

Joking around aside, wouldn't Past Weir's life have sucked? 10,000 years of sleeping, waking up only to rotate the ZPMs... that would get old. It must have been hard, no matter what was at stake, to keep doing it. It is human nature to tire of a monotinous lifestyle. She had to have forced herself to keep doing it, no matter how noble or moral she is/was. Don't you think?

I see it a little differently... Yes, she probably had to remind herself of the intial choice each time but I think more than anything it sheds light on Weir's character... the strength of will that she exudes which becomes more apparent with the upcoming episodes. It is important for us to see that she has the will and the ability to hold things together at Atlantis especially when things get rather hot...

Also, I dont want to learn about the Ancients, as the show has progressed they have been kinda forced to. The more they touch on the Ancients the more they lose their mystery, the more they simply arent interesting.
I still dont understand why a milion year old race looks exactly like us. If we are the supposed second evolution, why the hell do we look exactly the same?

I always find it intriguing that two people can see the same thing and have completely opposite reactions to it. I'm not sure what you were expecting the Ancients to look like but if some members of our current population is said to have the Ancient gene, it is likely that they would have to have similar DNA and hence the differences would not be that compelling. Still they apparently have the ability to heal others which must be handy for them...
I for one think it is rather fun that the Ancients are like us... it just goes to show that having advanced technology does not mean having answers to all of life's problems... they were overconfident and more than just a little complacent about their technological achievements and yet it got them nowhere with the Wraith. That should be a lesson to us, I think.
Also, it would be rather routine if all the alien cultures were all esoteric, heavily made-up and spoke in riddles or over-the-top cliches... we'd just compare them to the Goa'uld, the Nox or the Wraith...

[Oma Desala]

I am a little confused on the Ancients. In Sanctuary that one Ancient took out those Wraith Darts with no problems using an energy weapon. They never mentioned if the weapon was physical, or if she was the weapon. It one Ancient could take out so many ships, how come they didn't do something like that when fleeing to Earth at the end of this episode?

Also, they showed that Ancient showing Weir how he made 3 ZPM's on some machine in Atlantis. My guess is a machine to make ZPM's are in the city Atlantis right? It was when the Ancients made them! Yet she gives gate addresses on where to find ZPM's instead? Hmmm

[LordAnubis]

I am a little confused on the Ancients. In Sanctuary that one Ancient took out those Wraith Darts with no problems using an energy weapon. They never mentioned if the weapon was physical, or if she was the weapon. It one Ancient could take out so many ships, how come they didn't do something like that when fleeing to Earth at the end of this episode?

Also, they showed that Ancient showing Weir how he made 3 ZPM's on some machine in Atlantis. My guess is a machine to make ZPM's are in the city Atlantis right? It was when the Ancients made them! Yet she gives gate addresses on where to find ZPM's instead? Hmmm

The Ancient in Sanctuary was ascended; therefore, she was the weapon, not a real physical weapon.

Janus never made ZPMs; he had three in storage. The addresses he gave Dr. Weir were locations of four or five more.

[Ugly Pig]

However, we know that 10,000 years ago, Antarctica was frozen like it is today. Ten thousand years is NOT a lot of time geologically and meterologically, so we know that Earth's poles have been frozen for quite some time, including Antarctica. Also, we know that Ayiana, who was frozen for 3 million years, was undisturbed. Therefore, the Ancients that came back to Earth most likely did not end up in Antractica, but rather Egypt. Had they come back via the Antarctic gate, they would have probably awakened Ayiana (unless they didn't know aobut her, but should) and used the Outpost, but it appeared that they hadn't done either of these things.

Well, they'd been away for millions of years. Ayiana and the outpost were probably long buried in the ice already.

This leads me to believe that they probably ended up in Egypt and eventually helped cause the rebellion against the Goa'uld. However, wouldn't they have a problem being detected by the Goa'uld upon return to Earth via the Giza gate?

Maybe they were killed immediately as intruders...

[Oma Desala]

I am also confused about one more thing. When Jack gets info from the repository, he starts to speak 'Ancient'. Yet when they showed the Ancients they communicated to one another in English, not Ancient. This is annoying to mine. The Goa'uld speak both languages during the the show. So I think it wasn't thought out well.

[Draco_Astreus]

I am also confused about one more thing. When Jack gets info from the repository, he starts to speak 'Ancient'. Yet when they showed the Ancients they communicated to one another in English, not Ancient. This is annoying to mine. The Goa'uld speak both languages during the the show. So I think it wasn't thought out well.

Everyone in the universe speaks English, even in other galaxies. So we just have to suspend disbalieaf, there's no logical explination.

[gwangung]

I wondered about that. But didn't Janus say he was setting the machine to wake her every 3000 years or so? Or just over 3000 years. So she'd only have had to go through about three cycles of that. Still monotonous, but not as bad as if she had to do it, say, every 300 years. I could see her taking time off to wander around the city a bit if that were the case. And really, we don't know for sure that she didn't explore the city a bit when she had the chance.

Well, one thing for sure...the Old Weir was younger inside than she was physically...she didn't actually have the years of living that the body showed she had. She basically sacrificed her life to be the watchguard and the living fail safe to insure that "her" team survived.

WHich explains her insistence on telling herself to live every moment....to do what she herself had no opportunity to do....

[Hex.FTB.enabled]

Here's my 2cents:

Wow. I have a new favorite ep of Atlantis. Everything about the ep was spot on. This ep addressed a concern I've had from begining, but had basically forgot: the Atlantis expedition got off easy. That fail-safe mechanism was awfully convenient. It was interesting to see what would have happened if it had been much more disasterous. McKay in particular was very poignant working until the end (and the Gate Room flooding with water looked very cool. The banter between McKay and Sheppard was great comic relief without seeming out of place.

It was nice to finally SEE the Ancients, but I was under-whelmed. For such an advanced culture, they seem kinda dense. The Nox had a wisdom with their knowledge, the Ancients have an arrogance. I'm curious to see how that plays out.

Mostly, it was nice to get a closer look at Weir. It was very good writing to have the b-day present bowl tied to the end of the ep where she scatters her ashes. The Old Weir talking to the present one could've been very cliché, and although it bordered there at times, I found it quite poignant. I loved at the end how she took her own advice and took a moment.

And the Back To the Future References were great!

[NightGloom]

Yay! I finally get a chance to post!

I loved this episode! It was both funny and intelligent at the same time. However, I am beginning to dislike the Ancients, they do seem arrogant, but Janus rocked. The Ancients seem a lot more human now, with a lot of faults. It's still kinda hard to believe that the Wraith could defeat them though.

Hopefully, this episode will change the minds of the people who would post the "I Hate Weir" threads awhile back. Torri Higginson did a really good job of playing both Weirs. I liked how you could tell that they were the same, but they were a lot different too.

So... Atlantis has a crematorium, eh?

[SmartFox]

I really like this ep and was glad to see a quality stargate ep after citzen joe which im just trying to erase from my memory. I loved getting to see the Ancients; especially Janus. This also explains some stuff in IGTBK. I like everyone in this ep from Mckay to Weir to Sheppard. Only complaint is very little Ford time once agian. Of course i admit it would be hard to incorpate him in this ep.