Before I Sleep (115)

[garhkal]

They never mentioned any of the other 3 addresses again. Just like much of SG1 went into a plot black hole, such as the Furlings, or the Nox after into the fire (where the gou'ald destroy the tolans), and many other things.

[j7n]

I was surprised to see that the time travel wasn't linear, like most time-travel in SG-1 was. To break the timeline like that would mean that Dr. Weir is going to die twice in one universe... Um...

I was glad that the usual "paradoxical conundrum" of time travel was quickly dismissed by Rodney McKay. At first I was like, oh no, time travel again, leading to one or more episodes that never happened. I would also not like to see the future as predetermined where Weir must grow into this decaying form no matter what. There has to be a another way. An anti-aging vaccine or something.

Old Weir died quite organically in this episode, since she was in a clearly decaying state already in the beginning, unlike in standard time travel stories where, any time there are several versions of a character, all but one will inevitably be killed off by the story.

Old Weir isn't a pretty sight on HD (or the high bitrate DVDs for that matter).

[mrscopterdoc]

They never mentioned any of the other 3 addresses again. Just like much of SG1 went into a plot black hole, such as the Furlings, or the Nox after into the fire (where the gou'ald destroy the tolans), and many other things.

those darn plot black holes!!

[jelgate]

Its not a plot hole

[mrscopterdoc]

They never mentioned it again so it could be, sort of, in a way

[garhkal]

Its not a plot hole

What else would you call it but a hole?

[jelgate]

They never mentioned it again so it could be, sort of, in a way

Just not mentioning something does not equate a plot hole

[P-90_177]

Just not mentioning something does not equate a plot hole

Agreed. Contradictory information equates to a plot hole. Simply not mentioning it again simply means that it was either dealt with off screen or they simply never bothered. Most likely the former.

[mrscopterdoc]

Point taken. It shall be simply be an unanswered question.

What about the other addresses?

*shrugs*

[Alexander0980]

I like this episode. It was fun. But I'd go deeper a bit concerning the ancients. So the puddle-jumper gets back in time during the wraith-ancient war. The Ancients decided to submerge the city and go back to earth. The thing I do not understand comes with the timeline of all this. It is stated, that Weir comes back roughly 10.000 years. If you look at the date of the Atlantis expedition would be about 2004 A.D. Minus 10.000 would mean that the ancients get back to earth the same period of time when the Goaul'd RA discovers earth and slaves the humans. The question is....which Stargate they did dial??? The hologram said to Weir, Sheppard, col. Summer and McKay that when got back to earth some of them headed to the South Pole Stargate, some secluded meditation (Morgan la fey, merlin/Moros) while others blended with humans on earth. But if they had to go towards Antarctica, which gate they arrived from the Pegasus. So far I thought there were only 2 gates on earth....the very first stargate of the Milky Way on Antarctica and the one that RA brought with him and placed it in Egypt. If that gate was not the 1st then the Giza one??? It's very unlikely the were not seen by the Goaul'd RA and his Jaffas when they arrived back from Atlantis. There must have been a 3rd gate somewhere.

[thekillman]

Point taken. It shall be simply be an unanswered question.

What about the other addresses?

*shrugs*

They likely came up empty, and an episode dedicated to finding nothing is not very satisfying.

The hologram said to Weir, Sheppard, col. Summer and McKay that when got back to earth some of them headed to the South Pole Stargate, some secluded meditation (Morgan la fey, merlin/Moros) while others blended with humans on earth.

They arrived at the south pole. Then, some stayed on earth or went in meditation while others went through the gate again into the milky way

[Janet Fraiser]

First of all, I love Torri Higginson. She da bestest.

I'm happy to see the positive reaction here. Elsewhere on the internet, I've seen less than kind things said about her character in general, so I was actually expecting more of the same here.

Anyway, more time travel. Whoo. Time travel is fun but potentially headache-inducing, and, unfortunately, this episode is no exception for me. My question, which I think someone asked earlier in the thread, is that if our universe is different from the one Old Weir traveled back from, is there supposed to be an explanation as to why Elizabeth was able to be born in this universe? Isn't there a problem with people from alternate universes existing in the same one?

I don't know if that was actually answered here. I assume it's just something we're suppose to accept.

While I love that her actions enable our expedition to survive their arrival in Atlantis, it's once again depressing to think about her original universe in which everyone is still dead, and the city is gone. (Looking at you, 2010.) I wonder if Old Weir even realizes that she's changed the future of a different world instead of her own.

Also, if Janus put in the city rising as a fail-safe, you'd think Liz wouldn't have to have stayed behind to rotate the ZPMs. I mean, whatever, I should ignore it. I just feel bad for her, giving up her life and all.

Besides that, I really love this ep. Great insight into the Ancients, love seeing Melia, and I'm always happy to see continuity between SG-1 and SGA. Torri as both her young and old self is just wonderful, and I'm glad we're able to have an episode dedicated to her character that is important to the story at the same time. Definitely the most emotionally powerful episode for me so far, but then, Liz has that effect on me.

[Britta]

My question, which I think someone asked earlier in the thread, is that if our universe is different from the one Old Weir traveled back from, is there supposed to be an explanation as to why Elizabeth was able to be born in this universe? Isn't there a problem with people from alternate universes existing in the same one?

An alternate timeline is not the same as an alternate universe.

[garhkal]

Additionally, the reason for her being needed to rotate the ZPM's is that jannus had switched them from running in parallel to running in series, one at a time, so someone had to stay to switch them out when they ran out of juice. That was Torri.

[Janet Fraiser]

An alternate timeline is not the same as an alternate universe.

And this is where I start to hate time travel.

How did all of this take place in our universe while the events of 2010 created an alternate universe? At least, that's what the assumption is, right?

On the Stargate wiki page for alternate timelines (since I couldn't find a difference between alternate timelines and universes in general elsewhere), an alternate timeline causes an alternate universe to form. When something in the past is changed, or as soon as someone or something goes back in time, a new universe is created with those changes.

"Before I Sleep" is on this page, and this part is at the end:

Major John Sheppard, Dr. Elizabeth Weir and Dr. Radek Zelenka are the only members of the expedition to escape the city, when Sheppard inadvertently activates a time-travel device inside one of the Puddle Jumpers.

- The Time Jumper takes them into orbit around Lantea during the siege by the Wraith; the Jumper crashes and Sheppard and Zelenka are killed, but Weir is rescued by the Lanteans and lives out her days on Atlantis, simultaneously setting up events so that a 'fail-safe' is installed that will cause Atlantis to rise to the surface rather than be flooded when power drops to a critical level. These events are not part of an alternate timeline, as they are in fact in the past of "our" timeline.

From the moment Sheppard activated the time machine and sent them into orbit in the puddle jumper, they were a part of our universe, our timeline. They were in the past, and their being there already changed things from how events originally had played out by the time that Sheppard and Elizabeth had arrived in Atlantis.

Rodney says, "The moment she went back in time, she created a separate reality, a second you living in a parallel world. Well, according to one of many interpretations of quantum theory...the universe is split into an infinite number of copies of itself in which every possible outcome to every decision ever made all exists somewhere in this infinitely layered multi-universe."

If everything took place in one universe - if Elizabeth made it so that Atlantis wouldn't sink, and her future self and John would not use the time machine - how could she exist in the past at all? The only thing that makes sense to me is that she came from a different timeline and universe. Because I'm still unclear about the difference between the two.

Of course, that brings me back to how two of her could exist in one universe, but... eh.

The only conceptual difference I can think of between alternate timelines and alternate universes in the show (since I don't actually know the theoretical science behind them) is that a timeline highlights how different events played out in different universes, showing exactly what event might have triggered a split into more than one universe (ignoring that every decision will create a different universe; in the show it would be only something relevant to the story like the note in 2010 and 2001). Whereas in the episode with Daniel using the quantum mirror to travel to an alternate universe where Earth is under attack by the Goa'uld, the past events aren't examined so much as the present state of the universe itself.

Ugh. Why do I always get so into the time travel stuff... I simultaneously love and loathe it.

Additionally, the reason for her being needed to rotate the ZPM's is that jannus had switched them from running in parallel to running in series, one at a time, so someone had to stay to switch them out when they ran out of juice. That was Torri.

I guess it was him saying "in case this doesn't work, I've built this fail-safe yadda yadda" that made me wonder if it was necessary.