Radek Zelenka/David Nykl Appreciation, Thunk, Translation Thread

[Coaster]

Well-done shipping doesn't polarize fans to hate a character that way, though it may have added fuel to the fire for people who already hated him/her. Sheridan/Delenn on Babylon 5 didn't make people start hating Delenn who didn't otherwise -- Delenn's regal demeanor and Mira Furlan's accent had already started that ball rolling --

People didn't like her because of that? Wow; those were two things I loved about her. She has a gorgeous accent, and I loved her haughty demeanor- if anything I thought they softened her up a bit too much after pairing her up with Sheridan.

It was like watching Walter Koenig (sweet little Chekov on Star Trek) playing Bester (practically a sociopath on Babylon 5) for the first time. ^^

Cute and hot, vs. evil and hot. Yup, a lot like that!

Wondergeek thunk!

Radek's hand looks like it's kind of straying in that first one. And I always get a chuckle out of that last one- Shep is checking out the woman at the other table, while our Wondergeeks have eyes only for each other.

Spoiler:

[Rosehawk]

While jealousy is part of it for some people, I really don't think that's the major anti-motivation. The people who hate a canon ship that isn't their OTP do so because they feel TPTB have "slighted" them by not "taking their views into account." The "threat" to their OTP becomes an avatar for TPTB themselves. (Prentiss and the Hotch/Reid shippers in "Criminal Minds" is my best example for that. Even though there isn't any canon shipping among the leads in the show, Prentiss has taken over Reid's spot as the person Hotch normally takes into the field with him and lo, Prentiss-hate combined with incessant complaining that TPTB don't give Hotch and Reid more scenes together.)

Feeling slighted over something that someone has no control over is an overprotectivness of a character that still has it's roots in jealousy IMO.
TPTB have a story to tell, it is their story to tell in the way they want to do it. If it doesn't work, I just quit watching or ignore it because I can't change it. I struggle to understand all the anti-hate to the levels it sometimes gets taken too because we have so little influence over the direction tptb choose to take their storytelling in.

However, I think the biggest reason poorly-done canon shipping leads to charater hate is because of the way characters (especially female characters) are written in badly-done canon ship.

This would be a good topic to start another thread with. What is considered badly-done canon is still all in perspective of the viewer. Though I agree when they turn the female (or male) from strong characters into whinning characters who can't make decisions, it is a huge turn off from watching.

I like your whole discussion that you are bringing up, it's just that it's off-topic and easy to stay off-topic - is there another thread for this type of discussion?

It would depend on how TPTB did it. If the other OTP felt they weren't being listened to by TPTB, well, Radek would have ended up their punch-bag as much as Kanaan did. Especially if they severely altered Weir or Teyla's personality or role in the process... which I'm pretty sure they would have. The number of lines Teyla was given dropped sharply after Kanaan's arrival, as did her ability to fight: compare the fight in "Suspicion" with the one in "The Queen" and you'll see what I mean.

I don't necessarily agree that Radek would have ended up as a punch-bag as Kanaan. Yes, if the relationship altered their personalities significantly, I would agree, however Radek is a secondary character and I don't see where that would have happened as much unless he was a primary character where they would be trying to create conflict with the relationship to try to keep it entertaining.
Teyla's number of lines and fighting I think more have to do with stuff behind the scenes with Rachel (she had a kid afterall and that shifts priorities) and TPTB then their intent to marginalize the character or because of Kanaan. Since that is all speculation, probably can't really discuss it anymore than just making a simple statement.

It was like watching Walter Koenig (sweet little Chekov on Star Trek) playing Bester (practically a sociopath on Babylon 5) for the first time. ^^

LOL, yeah it was! I didn't get to watch alot of Babylon 5 but I did see that and my reaction was similar, though much stronger with David's protrayal of Russel in EV!

Wondergeek thunk!

Lovely!

[Rosehawk]

Radek's hand looks like it's kind of straying in that first one.

Yeah, kind of looks like the other hand, the one we can't see, could be touching Rodney's behind!

[Rosehawk]

We need some *thunkin* this morning. Man is it cold outside. Got to about 17 below in the middle of the night. *shivers* *Winks at clone*

Spoiler:

Here's a good one for caps! Kind of looks like Radek fell asleep reading Rodney's senerios and Rodney can't figure out why something's not working.

[DragonLadyK]

People didn't like her because of that? Wow; those were two things I loved about her. She has a gorgeous accent, and I loved her haughty demeanor- if anything I thought they softened her up a bit too much after pairing her up with Sheridan.

Spoiler:

I don't think it was pairing up with Sheridan. Before her transformation, Delenn was an aristocrat: she came from a good, loving family from one of the two most powerful castes in her society, she occupied various governmental positions her entire career, she was the chosen of Dukhat, and then a member of the most powerful government entity among her people. After her transformation Delenn was attacked by GROPOS, humiliated by that ISN reporter on interstellar television, stripped of her position on the Grey Council, and told by Neroon -- I think -- that he didn't even know what she was. I thought it made sense that she was more humble afterwards. Now that she'd been looked down on herself, being haughty wasn't fun anymore. ^^

Radek's hand looks like it's kind of straying in that first one. And I always get a chuckle out of that last one- Shep is checking out the woman at the other table, while our Wondergeeks have eyes only for each other.

Heh. McKay is so very much in denail about his gayness. ~.^

TPTB have a story to tell, it is their story to tell in the way they want to do it. If it doesn't work, I just quit watching or ignore it because I can't change it. I struggle to understand all the anti-hate to the levels it sometimes gets taken too because we have so little influence over the direction tptb choose to take their storytelling in.

Let's say you go to a restaurant that sells cheese pizzas. It has sold cheese pizzas from the moment it opened or as long as you've been going there. You pay for your cheese pizza and sit down. You've eaten one slice when the owner decides that now they're going to be selling mushroom pizzas. He walks over and dumps a can of mushrooms on your pizza and then smushes them into the cheese so that you can't pick them off without losing a bunch of cheese in the process. It wouldn't make you hate pizza, but it would piss you off.

Pairing subtext, story structures, characters, and characterizations are products. People watch the advertising during and buy the merchandise for and DVDs of a show because they like that product enough to pay for it. When they write fanfiction or make vids about it they're using the product, just like someone would use a certain brand of hair gel. When shows' writers discontinue the product people like, they get pissed in the same way that people get angry when a corporation discontinues the hair gel/perfume/salad dressing they liked. (And as a sales clerk I got a lot of flak for corporate decisions I had no control over.)

The difference is that with a physical product, people just switch to another product and eventually forget. With a show, the show still might be carrying another product people like -- another character, another subtext, part of the plot -- and so they continue to be exposed to the fact the product they liked and paid for is gone and/or replaced with a product that isn't as good in their eyes.

Feeling slighted over something that someone has no control over is an overprotectivness of a character that still has it's roots in jealousy IMO.

I can't speak for people who het-only because I don't spend any significant amount of time with them. ^^;;

However, for slashers I can say your hypothesis is highly unsupported.

Spoiler:

Every now and then someone will post a Freudian dissertation about how women only slash so that they don't have to see another woman's icky hands on her lust object, and the rebuttals from slashers take up pages and pages. Women slash because the female characters are written in such a way that the slashers can't identify with them, and the canon het they dislike they dislike because the ship either doesn't seem like a healthy, realistic relationship or because they can't imagine why those two characters would ever choose each other. With the exception of using the character (male or female) as an avatar for TPTB, the bulk of their character-hate is based on the character being annoying ("Man up, McKay"), the character being percieved as unrealistic ("no real woman in that situation would ever or should ever behave that way"), or because of the percieved message behind the character or actions ("of course he's a boy, it's always a boy. Male writers want sons and so they 'reward' their characters with sons instead of daughters -- because who would want a girl?")

This would be a good topic to start another thread with. What is considered badly-done canon is still all in perspective of the viewer.

Heh. True. In this case, I measure well-done or poorly-done by the results. If a canon pairing:
A) Starts a fan war
B) Incites a third or more of a fandom to hate a character
C) Causes a significant drop in ratings

something was done wrong somewhere. If a canon pairing avoids those results, they did it right. *shrug*

I didn't get to watch alot of Babylon 5 but I did see that and my reaction was similar, though much stronger with David's protrayal of Russel in EV!

You didn't see the episode where Bester ordered the death of 300 civillians. ~.^

We need some *thunkin* this morning. Man is it cold outside. Got to about 17 below in the middle of the night.

*hands hot water bottle* That's harsh.

Here's a good one for caps! Kind of looks like Radek fell asleep reading Rodney's senerios and Rodney can't figure out why something's not working.

Easy to do, because they're all the same: "we're all going to die if it wasn't for my brilliance because Radek's idea could never work as well as mine." ~.^

Spoiler:

DragonLady

[Coaster]

We need some *thunkin* this morning. Man is it cold outside. Got to about 17 below in the middle of the night. *shivers* *Winks at clone*

It was 8 above when I got up this morning, which is cold to me but sounds warm compared to what you have!

Spoiler:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...kaPDVD_802.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...JMdsc09708.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...JMdsc09709.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...uarantine1.jpg

Here's a good one for caps! Kind of looks like Radek fell asleep reading Rodney's senerios and Rodney can't figure out why something's not working.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...pPDVD_1814.jpg

LOL... love the look Radek has on his face in that second one! Looks like he's either about to scold Rodney, or start laughing! Or maybe both.

As for the cap for the last one...

Spoiler:

: What's up, guys?
: I don't get it! I can't get this thing to print, no matter what I do!
: *yawns* Did you try turning it off and turning it on again?
: No... *click* *click* Hey, it's working!
: *sighs* Once again, I have to be the IT person around here.

Here's some more *thunk* to thaw us frozen ones out...

Spoiler:

[DragonLadyK]

As for the cap for the last one...

Spoiler:

: What's up, guys?
: I don't get it! I can't get this thing to print, no matter what I do!
: *yawns* Did you try turning it off and turning it on again?
: No... *click* *click* Hey, it's working!
: *sighs* Once again, I have to be the IT person around here.

(I'd just green you, but it won't let me.)

DragonLady

[Rosehawk]

Spoiler:

Let's say you go to a restaurant that sells cheese pizzas. It has sold cheese pizzas from the moment it opened or as long as you've been going there. You pay for your cheese pizza and sit down. You've eaten one slice when the owner decides that now they're going to be selling mushroom pizzas. He walks over and dumps a can of mushrooms on your pizza and then smushes them into the cheese so that you can't pick them off without losing a bunch of cheese in the process. It wouldn't make you hate pizza, but it would piss you off.

Oh, I agree it would piss me off and I haven't been happy with everything that has happened with Atantis either.
It both situations, I can choose whether to stay or leave, to continue to eat the pizza being pissed off, to continue to watch Atlantis or to leave and go someplace else. It's my choice. I've been through far too much in my life to let something like this keep me pissed off very long, especially when I have choices.

Pairing subtext, story structures, characters, and characterizations are products. People watch the advertising during and buy the merchandise for and DVDs of a show because they like that product enough to pay for it. When they write fanfiction or make vids about it they're using the product, just like someone would use a certain brand of hair gel. When shows' writers discontinue the product people like, they get pissed in the same way that people get angry when a corporation discontinues the hair gel/perfume/salad dressing they liked. (And as a sales clerk I got a lot of flak for corporate decisions I had no control over.)

I agree. However there is a point where you just have to let it go since you can't do anything about it. That is the great thing about fanfic, you can take what you didn't like and make it what you do like! I not going to stay upset at tptb simply because they did something I didn't like. It's their decision. I'll react and then either let it go or go someplace else.

The difference is that with a physical product, people just switch to another product and eventually forget. With a show, the show still might be carrying another product people like -- another character, another subtext, part of the plot -- and so they continue to be exposed to the fact the product they liked and paid for is gone and/or replaced with a product that isn't as good in their eyes.

I wouldn't continue to watch a TV show, even with favorite characters, if the show continued to provoke strong negative feelings in me. Just not worth walking away feeling like that. It's why I don't watch BSG much.
I probably differ from alot of people in that area but I've been through way too much in my life to let it take away from my overall enjoyment of a show.

However, for slashers I can say your hypothesis is highly unsupported.

I would agree that it would be unsupported. However given my personal life experiences, I have simply been amazed both in myself and in others what are triggers points for peoples reactions to situations.

Spoiler:

Every now and then someone will post a Freudian dissertation about how women only slash so that they don't have to see another woman's icky hands on her lust object, and the rebuttals from slashers take up pages and pages. Women slash because the female characters are written in such a way that the slashers can't identify with them, and the canon het they dislike they dislike because the ship either doesn't seem like a healthy, realistic relationship or because they can't imagine why those two characters would ever choose each other.

I don't think women slash because they don't want someone to see another woman's hands on their favorite character. Women tend to be more open to exploring feelings and emotions and constantly keep trying to show men how they want things done - slash is a nice outlet for that.
Though in real life, people do get into relationships, just like characters on TV, that you scratch your head and wonder why or how.

Heh. True. In this case, I measure well-done or poorly-done by the results. If a canon pairing:
A) Starts a fan war
B) Incites a third or more of a fandom to hate a character
C) Causes a significant drop in ratings

LOL. Good way to measure! like it.

You didn't see the episode where Bester ordered the death of 300 civillians. ~.^

I don't remember, I just remember seeing him on screen looking, acting and talking so different and I liked seeing the actor in the role. It's been so long see I have seen Babayon 5. I watch it until they moved it to cable which I didn't have at the time. Never bought the DVD's. Though someday I do want to go back and watch.

*hands hot water bottle* That's harsh.

*takes hot water bottle* and hugs it with Radeclone!

It was 8 above when I got up this morning, which is cold to me but sounds warm compared to what you have!

I think we are above zero now that it is afternoon. It would be worse if the wind was whipping around but it's been somewhat tame.
And at least my car starts now! New battery and altenator help!

Easy to do, because they're all the same: "we're all going to die if it wasn't for my brilliance because Radek's idea could never work as well as mine." ~.^

LOL. Radek's gotta be tired of hearing that!

As for the cap for the last one...

Spoiler:

: What's up, guys?
: I don't get it! I can't get this thing to print, no matter what I do!
: *yawns* Did you try turning it off and turning it on again?
: No... *click* *click* Hey, it's working!
: *sighs* Once again, I have to be the IT person around here.

LOL. That's a good one! Love it! It's perfect for the picture!

Here's some more *thunk* to thaw us frozen ones out...

Nice!
How do you get such clarity on your pics! The images are sharp and clean! Perfect to view Radek in!

[Coaster]

(I'd just green you, but it won't let me.)

LOL. That's a good one! Love it! It's perfect for the picture!

Are you The IT Crowd fans? I was hoping it would still be funny even if not everyone got the reference.

How do you get such clarity on your pics! The images are sharp and clean! Perfect to view Radek in!

I snurched those particular ones from andreas; I don't know where he gets them! They are lovely though; I always grab some when he posts new ones of interest. I think my favorite that he's put up so far is this one:

Spoiler:

Quick, give him a big ol' smooch while he's distracted!

[Rosehawk]

Are you The IT Crowd fans? I was hoping it would still be funny even if not everyone got the reference.

I'm not in IT but I work with IT alot and have a project with them that I spent alot of last year rolling out to my department. Many, many times I have had similar experiences that Radek just had with Rodney!

I snurched those particular ones from andreas; I don't know where he gets them! They are lovely though; I always grab some when he posts new ones of interest. I think my favorite that he's put up so far is this one:

Spoiler:

Quick, give him a big ol' smooch while he's distracted!
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/r...GA308-0024.jpg

Wow, that's a good one! Perfect for Radek!

[DragonLadyK]

Spoiler:

It both situations, I can choose whether to stay or leave, to continue to eat the pizza being pissed off, to continue to watch Atlantis or to leave and go someplace else. It's my choice. I've been through far too much in my life to let something like this keep me pissed off very long, especially when I have choices.

Or you could complain to the manager. Many antis hope that the market analysts for the networks will pick up on the fact the writers' decisions are angering the customer base and make them stop.

Many viewers form attachments to characters in ways that people don't to food. To illustrate, if your husband's mother-in-law was an absolute *****, would you leave your husband? Antis are attached enough to their favorite characters that they will endure whatever it is that annoys them so to get new canon about those characters. When the satsifaction of seeing their favorites is not longer equal to or greater than the annoyance from the problem, that's when they stop watching.

That being said, having other antis who dislike the same thing can be therapeutic -- it depends on the people.

I wouldn't continue to watch a TV show, even with favorite characters, if the show continued to provoke strong negative feelings in me. Just not worth walking away feeling like that. It's why I don't watch BSG much.

And 24/45ths of people feel the way you do. One of the things customer-serivce gurus teach is that every person who complains about an aspect of your company represents 25 people who have silently taken their business elsewhere because of it. The customers who complain are in a way your most loyal since they enjoy something about your company enough to want to change what they don't like instead of just going somewhere else.

People who complement your business? Represent only five people who feel the same way.

The idea that people should just "watch something else" or "go somewhere else" is a dangerous one for Powers or customer-service clerk because if they do, you're screwed. There is a reason MGM cancelled SGA and put Wright and Cooper in charge of the blank slate new show.

Wright and Cooper managed to keep everything in balance. No plotline or character was so dominant that a viewer couldn't just fast-forward through the scenes they didn't like and then have a few eps free of whatever it was. They were also really good about pairing the shippy/character plotlines with a really team-driven or action-driven plot so everyone had something to enjoy in every episode. They also kept the skanky gender issues to a minimum. ^^ Most of it was all stuff you could handwave or fast-forward through, and they made sure to give each character issue-free shows. Wright and Cooper are also excellent at letting every character shine: even minor characters like Janet Frasier, Martouf, Jacob Carter, Zelenka, Ford, Carson, and Lorne. Even the gate-techs like Harriman and Chuck were included, even if only for brief scenes.

Wright and Cooper do good work, and they know how to keep a fanbase happy.

Mullie and Mallozi? They don't have that knack for balance.

I would agree that it would be unsupported. However given my personal life experiences, I have simply been amazed both in myself and in others what are triggers points for peoples reactions to situations.

By "unsupported" I don't mean "unpopular," I mean "lacking in evidence to support the hypothesis." ^^

Like I said, for het-only fans it might be true that the most common motivation is jealousy: I have no idea. But for slashers that is definitely the exception rather than the rule.

Though in real life, people do get into relationships, just like characters on TV, that you scratch your head and wonder why or how.

That's true, but one of the basic rules of narrative is that you can't have your readers scratching their head: your job, as a writer, is to explain it to them. There are ships in shows that people don't see without erupting into fan-wars or fan-wank over it: they don't ship it, but they can accept it. It's possible, if TPTB are willing to put in the necessary planning.

I think we are above zero now that it is afternoon. It would be worse if the wind was whipping around but it's been somewhat tame. nd at least my car starts now! New battery and altenator help!

The car, not the wallet. ^^ Still, I hope your pipes don't freeze. That's more fun than anyone can handle.

Are you The IT Crowd fans? I was hoping it would still be funny even if not everyone got the reference.

I've never heard of it, I've just has similiar experiences with my coworkers at my last job.

BossLady: Why won't this CD work? It keeps telling me there's no disk in drive but I know I put it in there.
DL: *tries to open CD Drive in Windows Explorer* *it doesn't work* *opens the physical drive* *removes disk* "It's a DVD, Boss Lady, see where it says right here? *puts disk in DVD drive*

*ten minutes later*

BossLady: DL, could you come look at this customer's camera? I can't get it to show me the internal memory.

Spoiler:

DragonLady

[Rosehawk]

Spoiler:

Or you could complain to the manager. Many antis hope that the market analysts for the networks will pick up on the fact the writers' decisions are angering the customer base and make them stop.

You're right, I could complain to the manager. I tend to only complain when I feel that it can accomplish something. If I don't feel that it can accomplish anything, I won't put my time and effort into it.
My food, dinner, service, stuff like that I am more apt. to say something. TV show, not so much as it is more of a luxery and not a necessity in life.

Many viewers form attachments to characters in ways that people don't to food. To illustrate, if your husband's mother-in-law was an absolute *****, would you leave your husband?

LOL. Been there, not a pleasant experience, no not at all! To be honest, it would depend on the relationship he had with his mom. I agree that people do form attachments to characters in ways they don't to food. People tend to form attachments to characters that they can most relate to in some fashion or the other, whether it is looks, voice, humor, mannerisms, etc - the reasons tend to be more personal and most likely unconscious tendencies where as food I think tends to be less subjective and less personal.

Antis are attached enough to their favorite characters that they will endure whatever it is that annoys them so to get new canon about those characters. When the satsifaction of seeing their favorites is not longer equal to or greater than the annoyance from the problem, that's when they stop watching.

I would agree with that!

That being said, having other antis who dislike the same thing can be therapeutic -- it depends on the people.

True. I think that when they all share the same feelings, it helps to know someone else out there does.

And 24/45ths of people feel the way you do. One of the things customer-serivce gurus teach is that every person who complains about an aspect of your company represents 25 people who have silently taken their business elsewhere because of it. The customers who complain are in a way your most loyal since they enjoy something about your company enough to want to change what they don't like instead of just going somewhere else.

Yep, I work for a corporation and understand the in's and outs of complaints and their value. Practical experiences from my work has also taught that the majority of the complaints are because customers use product in a way that the product was not intended to be used and yet we have to jump through hoops to keep them happy when all they had to do was read the instructions. And others who like to complain just to try to get your product cheaper or pit you against the competition - that's not loyalty because they will drop you in a heartbeat if it suits them.

People who complement your business? Represent only five people who feel the same way.

I tend to complement more than I complain. People who work hard need and like to hear something positive so if something moves me in a postive direction I will say something.

The idea that people should just "watch something else" or "go somewhere else" is a dangerous one for Powers or customer-service clerk because if they do, you're screwed. There is a reason MGM cancelled SGA and put Wright and Cooper in charge of the blank slate new show.

Wright and Cooper managed to keep everything in balance. No plotline or character was so dominant that a viewer couldn't just fast-forward through the scenes they didn't like and then have a few eps free of whatever it was. They were also really good about pairing the shippy/character plotlines with a really team-driven or action-driven plot so everyone had something to enjoy in every episode. They also kept the skanky gender issues to a minimum. ^^ Most of it was all stuff you could handwave or fast-forward through, and they made sure to give each character issue-free shows. Wright and Cooper are also excellent at letting every character shine: even minor characters like Janet Frasier, Martouf, Jacob Carter, Zelenka, Ford, Carson, and Lorne. Even the gate-techs like Harriman and Chuck were included, even if only for brief scenes.

Wright and Cooper do good work, and they know how to keep a fanbase happy.

Mullie and Mallozi? They don't have that knack for balance.

Interesting, never look at it from this perspective.

By "unsupported" I don't mean "unpopular," I mean "lacking in evidence to support the hypothesis." ^^

Don't worry, I took it that you meant unsupported and not unpopular. While I have alot more thoughts on that, it's best to create a new thread to continue the discussion.

Like I said, for het-only fans it might be true that the most common motivation is jealousy: I have no idea. But for slashers that is definitely the exception rather than the rule.

From the people that I know who have turned to slash, I would agree with this. While I am not into slash, I admit I enjoy reading it from time to time.

The car, not the wallet. ^^ Still, I hope your pipes don't freeze. That's more fun than anyone can handle.

LOL. So true, so true! We are doing everything we can to make sure the pipes don't freeze. I just can't figure out why homebuilders would put the water pipes close to the outside walls where the house heat doesn't easily get to them in a State that has subzero temps for days at a time.
Where's Radek when you need him, he would know instantly how to solve the problem!

*thunk*

I've never heard of it, I've just has similiar experiences with my coworkers at my last job.

IT is the short name for the Technical support people in companies. The ones who work with computers, write and develop computer programs, keep computers and other technical systems running, stuff like that. I use the term IT so much that I can't remember what it all stands for anymore!

[Replicator Fifth]

IT= Information Technologies

[DragonLadyK]

Spoiler:

Yep, I work for a corporation and understand the in's and outs of complaints and their value. Practical experiences from my work has also taught that the majority of the complaints are because customers use product in a way that the product was not intended to be used and yet we have to jump through hoops to keep them happy when all they had to do was read the instructions. And others who like to complain just to try to get your product cheaper or pit you against the competition - that's not loyalty because they will drop you in a heartbeat if it suits them.

Yeah, well, people are people. But still, if people are constantly trying to get a product cheaper, that can be a sign that the price is too high. I worked for a store that would lower the price on items that were shoplifted a lot because clearly people wanted it, but they weren't willing to pay that price. It worked: we would sell more of that item and have it stolen less. *shrug*

That being said, I think the spirit behind American business practice is exceptionally unhealthy. Customers pit competition against each other and act like arrogant jerks because that's what they've been trained to do by corporate ruthlessness. The Puritanical values of frugality and hard work have spiralled into a "Wal-mart culture" where nothing else has value in the business world: not good customer service, not ethical ideals, not family. :/

I tend to complement more than I complain. People who work hard need and like to hear something positive so if something moves me in a postive direction I will say something.

That's nice, and good for you.

Interesting, never look at it from this perspective.

Heh. I tend to watch everything with a critical eye (critical as in "examining the individual parts, narrative consistency, and technical aspects," not "looking for a reason to complain"). That's why plot holes bug me to no end. ~.^

Don't worry, I took it that you meant unsupported and not unpopular. While I have alot more thoughts on that, it's best to create a new thread to continue the discussion.

You may try if you like -- I love psychology, I'd certainly join you on it -- but I'm pretty sure it would get closed by the Mods. Discussing fan motivations is too close to bashing other fans. Even if that isn't the spirit intended by the analyzers, it could be interpreted that way by the fans in question and rather than deal with it I've seen threads of that nature just get closed as a wank-stoppage measure. (Not that I blame them. It only takes one jerk (and I know just the person who would) showing up with "people only like XXX if they're pathetic whiners themselves" and boom.)

From the people that I know who have turned to slash, I would agree with this. While I am not into slash, I admit I enjoy reading it from time to time.

It's insidious, just like the Federation. ~.^ (If you don't get the reference, PM me and I'll send you a link to the scene.)

LOL. So true, so true! We are doing everything we can to make sure the pipes don't freeze. I just can't figure out why homebuilders would put the water pipes close to the outside walls where the house heat doesn't easily get to them in a State that has subzero temps for days at a time.

WORD.

IT is the short name for the Technical support people in companies. The ones who work with computers, write and develop computer programs, keep computers and other technical systems running, stuff like that. I use the term IT so much that I can't remember what it all stands for anymore!

I know what "IT" is, I've just never heard of "The IT Crowd." I assumed from the italics Belevision used that it was a show of some sort.

Spoiler:

He's so adorable!

DragonLady

[Rosehawk]

Spoiler:

Yeah, well, people are people. But still, if people are constantly trying to get a product cheaper, that can be a sign that the price is too high.

My company tends to produce higher end products so they do have a higher price and many of the products last longer and we provide really really good customer support to help customers out.
Trying to get a lower price seems to be an industry standard now. Quality seems to be secondary, unless it means a price discount.

That being said, I think the spirit behind American business practice is exceptionally unhealthy. Customers pit competition against each other and act like arrogant jerks because that's what they've been trained to do by corporate ruthlessness. The Puritanical values of frugality and hard work have spiralled into a "Wal-mart culture" where nothing else has value in the business world: not good customer service, not ethical ideals, not family.

Sad, isn't it. It all gets down to money and time which is great on paper, but not so great in real life.

You may try if you like -- I love psychology, I'd certainly join you on it -- but I'm pretty sure it would get closed by the Mods. Discussing fan motivations is too close to bashing other fans. Even if that isn't the spirit intended by the analyzers, it could be interpreted that way by the fans in question and rather than deal with it I've seen threads of that nature just get closed as a wank-stoppage measure. (Not that I blame them. It only takes one jerk (and I know just the person who would) showing up with "people only like XXX if they're pathetic whiners themselves" and boom.)

Yeah, you got a good point! Still it would be a fun topic to discuss.

It's insidious, just like the Federation. ~.^ (If you don't get the reference, PM me and I'll send you a link to the scene.)

Humm, haven't heard that about the Federation. If you get a chance PM me the link - it's been awhile since I've seen any ST.

I know what "IT" is, I've just never heard of "The IT Crowd." I assumed from the italics Belevision used that it was a show of some sort.

Oops, sorry. I recently had to explain IT to some people at work recently. We've used the term "IT crowd" at work since it a work group that affects everyone in the company so my brain just went to that reference.

Spoiler:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a170/DragonLadyK/GateWorld/DavidNykl/SGA/dtsg1_82.jpg

He's so adorable!

DragonLady

Yes he is. I'm watching Trinity right now just to get a Radek fix before heading off to sleeping time!