Radek Zelenka/David Nykl Appreciation, Thunk, Translation Thread

[GateGurl]

You're right, I think he is smiling! LOL!

It must have been somewhat fun doing that scene! I am going to have to go home and rewatch that part!

[Rosehawk]

Well since we really can't see what others may be doing to him.....

Spoiler:

and then go figure, Sheppard always gets the girl, McKay gets Keller, Carson had Cadman for awhile, Teyla gets a husband, Ronon looks like he is getting the one control room tech, even Weir had a date in one episode and what does Radek get....he gets McKay's cold hands on his chest!

[Coaster]

Well since we really can't see what others may be doing to him.....

Spoiler:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...omckay0573.jpg
and then go figure, Sheppard always gets the girl, McKay gets Keller, Carson had Cadman for awhile, Teyla gets a husband, Ronon looks like he is getting the one control room tech, even Weir had a date in one episode and what does Radek get....he gets McKay's cold hands on his chest!

How do you know they're cold?

At least we have fanfic to make up for that serious omission on the part of TPTB though... I've seen him paired up with everyone you mentioned, in various stories! And even more you didn't mention... I love the fact that there are fanfic writers.

Spoiler:

We just have to be happy with subtext (real or imagined), otherwise...

[Rosehawk]

How do you know they're cold?

LOL. Do you really think that Rodney is going to be THAT nice to Radek while saving his life?!


*thinks of doctors who put cold stethoscopes, or other cold medical objects in other areas, while trying to tell you that it is good for you!*

At least we have fanfic to make up for that serious omission on the part of TPTB though...

That's the beauty of fanfics....TV is always someone elses vision and usually can't tell or show everything that fans want or need to see....where as fanfic is limitless.....

I've seen him paired up with everyone you mentioned, in various stories!

Radek goes with everything, just like a fine wine does!

And even more you didn't mention...

Yeah, my fanfic is a new character!

[humanityspotential]

Hi all.

I've been practicing in photoshop and using your favourite characters makes the experience so much more enjoyable. So I snurched some images from this lovely thread and made the following (hopefully spelling error free )

[DragonLadyK]

Oh yummy. That second one especially. *THUNK*

I am especially fond of that pic.

Hee! That's what I always like to imagine, when he enters a scene and his hair is especially wild: "Wow, he must have just enjoyed a particularly energetic romp with someone!"

Well, he did win that coupon from Dr. Ambrose in the chess match... I'm certain she wouldn't have put that up there if she found him repulsive... (Since I assume a/the certified massage therapist on staff wouldn't be charging her patients for her services anymore than Keller, Carson, or Kate did.)

Hehe, thanks for these. Perfect shots of his 'crazy-sex-ruffled hair'

Or ruffled from running his hands through it in frustration or exasperation...

and then go figure, Sheppard always gets the girl, McKay gets Keller, Carson had Cadman for awhile, Teyla gets a husband, Ronon looks like he is getting the one control room tech, even Weir had a date in one episode and what does Radek get....he gets McKay's cold hands on his chest!

But he is the only character without an anti-following. That's not only compensation, but there may be a cause-and-effect relationship... ~.^

I've been practicing in photoshop and using your favourite characters makes the experience so much more enjoyable. So I snurched some images from this lovely thread and made the following (hopefully spelling error free )

Those are lovely, hon. Nice font choice and color scheme. Reminds me of coffee.

LOL. Do you really think that Rodney is going to be THAT nice to Radek while saving his life?!

No comment. ^^

We haven't had bada**!Nykl in a while.

Spoiler:

He looks really good in burgundy: it suits him.

On an auxiliary note, I wish Jake 2.0 would hurry up and come out on DVD so I can get some decent caps.

DragonLady

[Coaster]

Radek goes with everything, just like a fine wine does!

Mmmm... there are even vintages!

Spoiler:

Season 1 vintage...


Season 3 vintage...


Season 5 vintage...


As well as other fine years!

Hi all.

I've been practicing in photoshop and using your favourite characters makes the experience so much more enjoyable. So I snurched some images from this lovely thread and made the following (hopefully spelling error free )

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/s...al/radek01.jpg

That is really lovely! Nice work. We'll have to keep providing you with inspiration.

But he is the only character without an anti-following. That's not only compensation, but there may be a cause-and-effect relationship... ~.^

It makes me very happy that not only does he not have an anti-following, but I've never seen anyone in fandom say anything negative about him in general, and in fact most fans seem to love him! Even people who soured on the show.

And yeah, canon shipping seems to polarize fans a lot, doesn't it. Interesting phenomenon.

We haven't had bada**!Nykl in a while.

Thank you; those were truly nice to see! Yum!

[Rosehawk]

Hi all.

I've been practicing in photoshop and using your favourite characters makes the experience so much more enjoyable. So I snurched some images from this lovely thread and made the following (hopefully spelling error free )

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/s...al/radek01.jpg

Very Nice!

But he is the only character without an anti-following. That's not only compensation, but there may be a cause-and-effect relationship... ~.^

Nay, it's just David's great performance is why Zelenka doesn't have an anti-following. Though once on the Razzie thread we had one person who was upset about the pairing, Mods got to that one before too many people read it so you do have a good point about the cause-and-effect relationship thing!

I'm mean really, what's not to love about Radek!

Spoiler:

We haven't had bada**!Nykl in a while.

Nice!

And here's some more bad Nykl!

Spoiler:

It makes me very happy that not only does he not have an anti-following, but I've never seen anyone in fandom say anything negative about him in general, and in fact most fans seem to love him! Even people who soured on the show.

I've seen a few negative comments but they are very very rare.
Radek is universally loved by the fanbase. That's a real credit to David's acting talents.

And yeah, canon shipping seems to polarize fans a lot, doesn't it. Interesting phenomenon.

Interesting indeed!

[DragonLadyK]

Nay, it's just David's great performance is why Zelenka doesn't have an anti-following. Though once on the Razzie thread we had one person who was upset about the pairing, Mods got to that one before too many people read it so you do have a good point about the cause-and-effect relationship thing!

But Razzie was never canon the way The Season 5 Triangle was. It was all subtext the fans reacted to. Canon shipping isn't the same, and it does polarize fans if not done properly: Crusher/Picard took the Crusher-hate to a new level (Wesley the Marty Stu had already gotten the ball rolling); Spike/Buffy brought the Buffy-haters out of the woodwork, Grissom/Sara WAS the reason Sara-fans hated her. In SG1 the Carter-hate rose in direct proportion to the amount of Sam/Jack on the screen.

If TPTB had paired Radek with, say, Weir or Teyla in canon, some of the Sparkies or Sheylas would have definitely churned out some anti- sentiment. ^^ Such as it is, Radek has no reason for people to dislike him: he doesn't steal anyone screen-time and he doesn't step on anyone's ship. Gero's best efforts to make people dislike Radek have all met with total failure -- people just get upset TPTB are dumbing Radek down or what have you, if they even notice at all. ^^ He's like Chuck that way.

DragonLady

[DragonLadyK]

Some "The Seed" thunk:

Spoiler:

DragonLady

[Coaster]

And here's some more bad Nykl!

Hee! A different hair look for him! I saw clips from that, and at one point he does this high pitched laugh that I know was creepy-scary-psycho, but I still found it cute of course.

Such as it is, Radek has no reason for people to dislike him: he doesn't steal anyone screen-time and he doesn't step on anyone's ship. Gero's best efforts to make people dislike Radek have all met with total failure -- people just get upset TPTB are dumbing Radek down or what have you, if they even notice at all. ^^ He's like Chuck that way.

Oh yes, there's nobody who dislikes Chuck! Or Lorne. That I've seen.

Remember all the fan vitriol that came down on that guy who was trying to date Weir in Sunday? Although I don't know how much of that was based on perceived ship stepping-on, or more that the character was just kind of skeevy. But I'm getting seriously off topic with that, so...

Some "The Seed" thunk:

I love Radek's smile in the first picture...

Spoiler:

All this weirdness going on and everyone's concerned, but he was excited because he might get to see how Wraith ships grow. I love it. They're all "OMG" and he's "This is so cool!"

(I should ask if we still need to put S5 plot points in spoiler tags)
Edit: looks like we still do, until S5 goes into US syndication.

[Rosehawk]

But Razzie was never canon the way The Season 5 Triangle was. It was all subtext the fans reacted to. Canon shipping isn't the same, and it does polarize fans if not done properly: Crusher/Picard took the Crusher-hate to a new level (Wesley the Marty Stu had already gotten the ball rolling); Spike/Buffy brought the Buffy-haters out of the woodwork, Grissom/Sara WAS the reason Sara-fans hated her. In SG1 the Carter-hate rose in direct proportion to the amount of Sam/Jack on the screen.

I agree that Razzie was never canon and most of us on that thread were glad it wasn't canon. It was more fun that way and we only had one person who visited the thread who complained about it that I recall.
However, the Sheppard/Weir or Sheppard/Teyla and that has polarized fans just by the suggestion that it could be possible. And people definietly react to those non-canon ships.
Alot of people tended to agree that it looked like Radek had a crush on Weir in 'The Brotherhood' and thought it was cute, though I am sure they are glad TPTB didn't turn it into a ship.

Canon shipping will always be a polarizing effect with fanbases even if it is done right. People pick their favorites characters for various reasons but typically because there is something about the character/actor that they can relate to. It's no wonder then when you see something on TV and it doesn't fit their image (fantasy) that someone may have of that character, that emotions (jealousy)will flair and the anti-canon stuff starts. I find it interesting that all the ships you mentioned above, the spew of the anti was directed towards the female character and since the majority of the ships tend to have a large female following, the jealousy factor is definitely in full swing.

If TPTB had paired Radek with, say, Weir or Teyla in canon, some of the Sparkies or Sheylas would have definitely churned out some anti- sentiment. ^^ Such as it is, Radek has no reason for people to dislike him: he doesn't steal anyone screen-time and he doesn't step on anyone's ship. Gero's best efforts to make people dislike Radek have all met with total failure -- people just get upset TPTB are dumbing Radek down or what have you, if they even notice at all. ^^ He's like Chuck that way.

DragonLady

I agree that if Radek had been paired in cannon with Weir or Teyla there would have been alot more anti from the people who like to ship them with Sheppard and that's their problem. I still think that Radek's gentleness and the fact he doesn't step on toes would have made for more people to be positive about the Razzie pairing then against it.

Hee! A different hair look for him! I saw clips from that, and at one point he does this high pitched laugh that I know was creepy-scary-psycho, but I still found it cute of course.

The first time I saw and heard that scene I wasn't expecting it, probably because I still saw David as a Zelenka type character - Escape Velocity was one of the first David shows I watched as I was checking out some of his other work! - Anyways....because I wasn't expecting it, it really kind of creeped me out. And then when he was in the hall searching for the woman, his voice and look was really really creepy. It was the show (okay, the movie was bad but David was great in it!) that made me realize David's range in talent, that, Zelenka and his Moonman episode in Cold Squad and I was hooked as a fan ever since!

[Rosehawk]

And because this is a *thunk* thread....

Spoiler:

[Coaster]

I agree that Razzie was never canon and most of us on that thread were glad it wasn't canon. It was more fun that way and we only had one person who visited the thread who complained about it that I recall.
However, the Sheppard/Weir or Sheppard/Teyla and that has polarized fans just by the suggestion that it could be possible. And people definietly react to those non-canon ships.

Non-canon shipwars fascinate and disturb me. Since none of the ships are "real", it seems to me they should all co-exist comfortably among people's separate fantasy versions of the story and that none of them need to compete (unless that's specifically desired for entertainment within the fantasy). But then I'm a multi-shipper/slasher rather than an OTPer- the more alternate realities, the more fun.

Alot of people tended to agree that it looked like Radek had a crush on Weir in 'The Brotherhood' and thought it was cute, though I am sure they are glad TPTB didn't turn it into a ship.

It was a cute little crush if it was even that- to me it read more like awkwardness at being given the full attention of an attractive female in charge. And it's fun to make it into more of a ship in fanfic and the Razzie thread etc., but it didn't seem to be developed in canon at all.

And because this is a *thunk* thread....

One of my favorite episodes! And full of *thunk*:

Spoiler:

Double thunk at that, with handporn galore!

[DragonLadyK]

It's no wonder then when you see something on TV and it doesn't fit their image (fantasy) that someone may have of that character, that emotions (jealousy)will flair and the anti-canon stuff starts. I find it interesting that all the ships you mentioned above, the spew of the anti was directed towards the female character and since the majority of the ships tend to have a large female following, the jealousy factor is definitely in full swing.

While jealousy is part of it for some people, I really don't think that's the major anti-motivation. The people who hate a canon ship that isn't their OTP do so because they feel TPTB have "slighted" them by not "taking their views into account." The "threat" to their OTP becomes an avatar for TPTB themselves. (Prentiss and the Hotch/Reid shippers in "Criminal Minds" is my best example for that. Even though there isn't any canon shipping among the leads in the show, Prentiss has taken over Reid's spot as the person Hotch normally takes into the field with him and lo, Prentiss-hate combined with incessant complaining that TPTB don't give Hotch and Reid more scenes together.)

However, I think the biggest reason poorly-done canon shipping leads to charater hate is because of the way characters (especially female characters) are written in badly-done canon ship.

In the examples I mentioned above, the canon-ship plotline drastically changed the female characters' personalities for the worse. Crusher became indecisive and pining during the Picard/Crusher scenes instead of her usual (often too) decisive, strong-willed self (whereas Picard didn't undergo such a change). Buffy went from being a caring, compassionate person who was over-protective of her "subordinates" to a self-centered, abusive, manipulative leader who did not seem to care about her subordinates' welfare at all. During one scene Spike tried to rape Buffy and the Slayer just screamed and cried like a Muggle girl instead of staking him or putting him through the wall. Spike didn't get the same level of hate because the fans who didn't like where Spike was going just left the fandom. Sara started out a bright, happy woman who loved her job more than anything and during the "pining" phase of Grissom/Sara devolved into a self-centered, self-destructive, reckless, unprofessional lose cannon. After the relationship was consummated she became nagging and a burnout. Grissom became moody, uncaring, and insular after the consumation of Grissom/Sara, which is when many Grissom fans left the fandom entirely.

Bryon/Lyta on Babylon 5 turned Lyta into a brainwashed fanatic. However that plotline didn't make people hate the massively-popular Lyta so much as it made everyone hate Byron with the firey loathing of a thousand suns. The bulk of the fandom pretends that Season 5 never happened and tells newbies not to watch it outside of a handful of episodes. ~.^

Well-done shipping doesn't polarize fans to hate a character that way, though it may have added fuel to the fire for people who already hated him/her. Sheridan/Delenn on Babylon 5 didn't make people start hating Delenn who didn't otherwise -- Delenn's regal demeanor and Mira Furlan's accent had already started that ball rolling -- Kira and Jadzia of DS9 didn't pick up antis because of their relationships, and there wasn't an anti-Kassidy following on DS9 even though she was paired with the show's lead. Of course, in all of those cases, none of the characters underwent a sharp personality change during the ship plotline, either.

I agree that if Radek had been paired in cannon with Weir or Teyla there would have been alot more anti from the people who like to ship them with Sheppard and that's their problem. I still think that Radek's gentleness and the fact he doesn't step on toes would have made for more people to be positive about the Razzie pairing then against it.

It would depend on how TPTB did it. If the other OTP felt they weren't being listened to by TPTB, well, Radek would have ended up their punch-bag as much as Kanaan. Especially if they severely altered Weir or Teyla's personality or role in the process... which I'm pretty sure they would have. The number of lines Teyla was given dropped sharply after Kanaan's arrival, as did her ability to fight: compare the fight in "Suspicion" with the one in "The Queen" and you'll see what I mean.

I love the characters, but my fandom has skanky gender issues. ^^

The first time I saw and heard that scene I wasn't expecting it, probably because I still saw David as a Zelenka type character - Escape Velocity was one of the first David shows I watched as I was checking out some of his other work!

It was like watching Walter Koenig (sweet little Chekov on Star Trek) playing Bester (practically a sociopath on Babylon 5) for the first time. ^^

Non-canon shipwars fascinate and disturb me. Since none of the ships are "real", it seems to me they should all co-exist comfortably among people's separate fantasy versions of the story and that none of them need to compete (unless that's specifically desired for entertainment within the fantasy).

I heartily second that. Personally, I think that right there is the best argument for not making any ship canon: that way everyone gets to play in the sandbox, and no group can "blast the other ships with our canon." (Yes, that was an actual title/conversation topic of a thread on a CSI board.)

It was a cute little crush if it was even that- to me it read more like awkwardness at being given the full attention of an attractive female in charge.

It was a moment the shippers could enjoy ( )and the non-shippers could gloss over: the best kind, IMO.

One of my favorite episodes! And full of *thunk*

Wondergeek thunk!

Spoiler:

DragonLady